Pub and Club Sessions in Kent

Subject: The Musical Mix
From: Rima
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:01 PM

I was just thinking, shouldn't we demand a higher quality of music in our clubs and pubs around Kent (particularly where sessions are in public bars and have wider audiences?) and a mix of song and music that has greater audience appeal? I visit many clubs and pub sessions and find that the quality and variety of music presented is often very questionable. It's a difficult one: There is a question of accessibiity for performers (pub sessions where getting a song in edgeways is impossible, and "singers" clubs and sessions where musicians are elbowed out), a question of quality of singing (where, let's be honest, often we accept very poor quality) and a question of the type of music and song (folk clubs that are popular music clubs - pop, country, music hall, bluegrass... and music sessions that are "Irish"...). What does everyone think think?

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:14 PM

Horses for courses, as they say.

I would say that (traditional) folk songs are not, fundamentally, about "audience appeal". I don't like to see singarounds separated into "performers" and "the audience", for example. On the other hand there are certainly many situations where the split between performers and audiences is exactly as you would find in every other branch of music (classical, jazz, cabaret ...) that are perfectly acceptable.

And I am not sure who this "we" is who should be demanding this higher standard either. If people enjoy going to a pub/club as it is, I for one don't feel I should try to change it by external diktat. On the other hand if it isn't good enough to keep people coming (whatever its structure) the session will change or fold.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,Ghettoblaster
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:21 PM

No way! That's one of the great things that distinguishes "folk" (as she is practised, rather than as she is defined).   There is no barrier to entry.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 02:50 AM

As one of those organisers in Kent (Maidstone), I feel very strongly about setting myself up as a judge of quality, and arbiter of eligibility to perform.

Sure, there are some low quality performers on the scene, and we all know of people whose presence raises groans from the crowd (Oh no, not him again.).

One of the great delights of the folk scene for me is watching most of those as they develop and improve, and we should remember that we all started at that level.

As for the few that don't/can't improve, they have at least the love of music, and the enthusiasm to keep trying. Who am I to tell them they aren't good enough to be heard? I'm sure there are people out there who feel the same about me.

Every club I have been involved with has been INCLUSIVE, and that will remain the case in the future.

At the very least, the presence of poor performers could be said to highlight the talents of those who are good at it. How would we judge good without bad as a benchmark. Come to that WHY should we judge in the first place?

Don T.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Brendan Cool
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 09:17 AM

All in favour of "Irish" music, of course, but I take the original point and prefere an eclectic belnd of songs in "music" sessions and music in "singing" venues - that's a far better mix. And "folk" music is (sure it is) watered down all too offen with pop music, with Beetles numbers slipping past the folk censors. No, I think organisers should be critical in the folk genre and keep standards high. Inclusive yes, that's important, but all inclusive for folk musicians and singers, not for those who want to come along and sing blues, jazz, country, pop... They need to go elsewhere. You don't expect folk in a blues or jazz club. Inclusive yes as well for music with songs, songs in music sessions... Be critical - everyone else is...

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: vectis
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 03:23 PM

The Travelling Folk perform in public bars all over west Kent. If we weren't interesting we would be ignored by the locals who have gone there for a drink and a chat.
We must be doing something right when the locals start joining in and even doing their 'party piece' to entertain us and their mates.
We are at The Wheelrights at Matfield this Thursday night from about 8.30 until closing time.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,simonb
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 03:24 PM

I'll have anyone on my sessions, as long as they make me look good, ( which doesn't happen very often )

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,synbyn
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 06:35 PM

Glad to agree with you, Don!
If you want to see duos in performance in pubs, there are plenty of venues to choose from & acts to see. However, you won't be invited to perform, usually.
If you are a performer, and it seems to me that most audiences these days consist of performers, often of reasonably high standard, then the folk club offers a chance to everyone both do do their bit and to take in what everyone else is doing. Of course, there's an unwritten obligation for performers to make an effort to present fresh material. High standards- well, they arise from a shared bonhomie, I think. And it behoves us to be generous- we're all going to go for that top note and miss it one day! Sessions like the 8 Bells in Tenterden (2nd Tuesday, since you ask...) have seen so many great evenings when a mix of music has emerged.
The only possible exception to this, I think, is where a member of the audience accompanies a guest continuously, especially just ahead of his singing, and off-key. There I think the organiser has to diplomatically step in. And if it happens in your club, there really isn't any doubt about it!

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Catho
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:54 AM

Have to agree with synbyn that it's all down to the organiser, who must strive for high standards. Try Stony Stratford for some fantastic sessions which have great variety of music and song, lovely whistle and fiddle music, always great singing, very folky and often traditional, but never other forms of music. It's how a club is. If it lets things slip, then people do take advantage, but if the organiser is sensible, then people know what the club is about. Folk music is very precious and is different to other forms and we need to preserve it, sing it, play it and enjoy it.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,Ghettoblaster
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:12 AM

Change of name noted, Rima -

Is that "Rima" as in "Thomas the Rima"? Tee Hee.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,synbyn
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:04 PM

Also have to say that if Rima is spotted, he'll get a set for sure! Very few floor performers & songwriters in his league! There may be a place for a new session, possibly with paying audience, somewhere central in Kent, but how on earth you'd enforce a quality control without annoying a lot of players escapes me- and as I've suggested, most clubs seem to survive on their players who then sit and listen.
Maybe a place which has four singers per evening? Would that be financially viable?

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Rima
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:25 AM

Interesting discussion so far. I particularly like the idea of a 'new session' as suggested above. This would be worth more discussion and ideas. As you say, maybe a session with four (ish) 'acts' per evening, with a balance between 'singers acts' and instrumental acts, giving each act say half an hour could make for a very enjoyable evening. Between 8 and 11 you could get six acts in. The acts would depend on the organisers. Maybe performers would have to 'book in advance'. I can already see the organisational problems, but it's worth thinking about...

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 03:33 AM

Running an acoustic music club in Maidstone (DEAD centre of Kent, LOL), one has to try all sorts of strategies to bring people in to listen or participate.

Once a month we do run a format in which we invite performers to come and do 20 minute spots, and we almost always have time left over, which we fill with residents or regulars.

The main difficulty is that many of the invitees are semi pro artists and you can't keep using their services free of charge. Take them out of the mix and you are left with the same cross section that you seem to be querying.

If you work on the basis of performers calling in to book a spot, I don't see any way to avoid getting the occasional duff act and having to listen for much longer than the customary two or three songs in a folk club format.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 09:22 AM

The Eight Bells session at Tenterden takes place on Tuesday 12th July this month. I'm making a comparatively rare appearance, and would be grateful to make the acquaintance of any 'catter intending to go to Sidmouth.

... oh! and I'm drinking the Abbot if you feel generous!

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Rima
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 01:54 PM

What sort of session is it at the Eight Bells? Songs, jigs, reels and hornpipes or a mixture?

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:08 PM

I have only been occasionally and it has been mostly song. I may go to this one if feeling vigorous enough!

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,The Barden of England at work
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM

The Eight Bells is a good one, and Synbyn is normally there. I get there once every 8 months or so, but tonight I'm off to see 'War of the Worlds' so that's this months one up the creek for me.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Rima
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 01:48 PM

Since it's getting such good press, think I'll go to Tenterden tonight then. See you all there...

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: croc
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:28 PM

I second Vectis. If you want folk that is varied, entertaining and accessible to the general public, come to a Travelling Folk session. We can't afford self indulgence when we invade the punters space, we a have to win them over with good quality performances. We have a good mix of singing and music and people with talent to entertain even the most sceptical of the lay public. We've been doing it for 20 years so it must work.   Check out our venues on the web at travellingfolk.co.uk. Next ( and last for the season) meeting, Fox on the Hill Toys Hill, Sevenoaks, Thursday, 21 July, 8.30 on, or The Laughing Fish at Isfield this weekend, Fri 15 to Sun 17, sessions when the pub is open.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Rima
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM

Excellent session in Tenterden last night - 2 fiddles, whistle and concertina, original songwriters, singers and good gender mix with a gentle ambiance. Reminiscent of the sessions there in the Festival, but less hectic. We'll be staying in the Eight Bells in the festival, so look forward to more of the same then.

I was under the impression that Travelling Folk are more active in West Kent. Is that true? I remember Graham (melodeon) and (apologies, but can't remember his name) another TF coming to Fordwich Folk on a number of occassions a few years ago. Do you get out the Thanet and East Kent at all? Might try the Laughing Fish this weekend...

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Rima
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 11:45 AM

Excellent session also at the Bear in Faversham on Thursday with Mike Wheeler (one of the few occassions Ruth was absent) - and accompanying fiddles, banjo, whistles, harps, bodhrans and some vocals when Mike allows!! such as numerous treats from Heather (fine - very fine - whistle player as well) from Tantethera (appearing tonight (Sat - 16th) at the Anchor in Faversham and tomorrow afternoon at the Gearge in Newnham near Faversham) and others. Good to see the Bear is coming back into its own. A session largely and not really a singers venue, but well worth a visit all the same.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST,Sansculotte
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 03:57 PM

Tenterden was perhaps a little too gentle. I will not go to sessions that discriminate against singers.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 11:24 AM

You've lost me on both counts, Sansculotte – I wouldn't say Tenterden was too gentle, certainly not when I'm singing! A little laid back at times, but that's part of the appeal. It's somewhere I can go and relax in good company.
As for your second comment, I trust you were referring to the Bear session in Faversham. Tenterden welcomes all, whether singer, musician or poet, traditional or contemporary, novice or experienced – everyone is encouraged.

Rima – I totally agree, a great session.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: vectis
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:13 PM

The Travelling Folk are at the Fox and Hounds in Toys Hill on Thursday. Yes it is West Kent but well to the North of the county this week. I won't be there this week but Croc and many others will be.

Subject: RE: Pub and Club Sessions in Kent
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 06:59 AM

Yup, both the Tenterden and Trav Folk sessions were enjoyable- as was the TF satnite session at Isfield. I agree with Dave, the appeal is relaxed- there were about 25 players/singers by my count at Tenterden, each with their own material and style- and maybe because there's no money involved ego-trips are few and far between. I think this is where the real folk scene resides, rather than in concerts, because you do get eg Rima along, singing new material alongside the traditional favourites and tunes- and if those songs stand that test (as Rima's did), they are likely to survive. I've always valued the comments of friends on new material- if you know them well enough they don't have to be complimentary! It's the winnowing process, and very valuable. Younger performers cut their performing teeth, too, sometimes by realising that the material they begin with hasn't the resonance of the older songs. If we're not tolerant of them, they'll never make that leap. Back onto my faithful charger!
See you all at Broadstairs