BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing

Subject: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 10:39 PM

17 years ago today the Murrah Building was blown up in Oklahoma City.

Jane Graham

General Partin, bomb expert

Our current Attorney General, Eric Holder was Deputy AG back then.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 10:58 PM

Hmm. The Shock Doctrine once again?

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 11:21 PM

And don't forget Waco. Friday is the Columbine Anniversary. The 16h was the anniversary of the Virginia Tech Shootings. April *is* the cruelest month.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:24 PM

Songwriter, I looked at some of your links.

1. If in 17 years, no other expert has said that the truck bomb was not sufficient to destroy the building, then I don't think you have to worry about "General Partin."

2. Jane Graham says she saw three men with drawings and some wire working in public during working hours. They could have been re-wiring the exit lights, for all we know.

   a. If the investigators said, "Don't worry about them. We know who they were," then the conspiracy theorists would say the investigators were covering up for them.

   b. If the investigators could and did name the men and their employer, then from that point on, the lives of those men would not be worth living. So they didn't name them.

   c. But maybe all records of who was doing work around the place were destroyed, so who could tell?

Meanwhile, do you realize that by spreading these fears and suspicions, you are helping create the next Timothy McVeigh? -- somebody tough but not astute, angry but at the wrong people, and ready to be exploited.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 05:16 PM

Leeneia, what he realizes is that he gets attention when he starts nonsense threads that promote outlandish conspiracy theories. It isn't about the Murrah Federal Building bombing, it is about the kind of arguments that will be generated by throwing in a bunch of iffy citations from Yahoo searches.

Yahoo - in the Swiftian sense - there's a clue for you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 04:57 AM

I remember at the time Timothy McVeigh's father couldn't bring himself to plead for mercy, but he did say very wisely (in my opinion) that once you had killed his son - the last chance was gone for finding out the truth of the matter.

I can't really see what capital punishment achieves for a great country like the USA. God knows when the Irish troubles were at their height in the 1970's and 1980's - there were times when cheap shot politicians ike Thatcher(simplistic answers for complicated problems being their stock in trade) could always get a round of applause from their followers by wanting to bring back hanging in England - but thank Christ the government as a whole, had to act more responsibly.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 01:43 PM

"the last chance was gone for finding out the truth of the matter."

Big Al, I agree completely.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 02:54 PM

I don't know that the truth would come out even if he were alive.

I think that if anyone in the history of the US deserved the execution, it was McVeigh.

Much more so than some low IQ African American or Latino in Texas railroaded by the DA's and not given the resources to defend himself.

McVeigh certainly is a special case. The odds of him being killed in prison would probably be high. The odds of his recruiting others in prison not negligible. The call for revenge from victims and from the country as a whole, as I recall was tremendous.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 03:15 PM

Should have realized I had PTSD then, but didn't. Took 9-11 to teach me that, because so many other people fell apart too.

Still sad for the families, especially of the children.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 09:13 PM

I feel sorry for people who trust the U.S. government. On anything. If you don't learn to question, then you will have answers imposed on you.

The fertilizer bomb created a pockmark in the street. It did not have enough explosive force to collapse the front of the building.

The below is from an interesting column:

We're All Branch Davidians Now

Waco, from the raid's planning to the cover-up and show trials, taught the U.S. government what it could get away with – which is to say, practically anything. It can gas innocent children with internationally banned chemicals. It can hoist a federal flag atop a torched American home, claim victory, and see its public image improve. It can throw grenades at people trying to escape a building and claim they are being held hostage. In the name of protecting these "hostages" and children, it can watch as they burn and keep the firefighters away. And the massacre will be tolerated, even applauded.

Dozens of people of color died at the hands of the federal government, and the official Civil Rights movement hardly spoke up. Dozens of people were targeted for their religion, and it hardly bothered many of the very conservatives who allege a war on religion waged by DC. The largest federal-military killing of civilians on U.S. soil in a century has now become one more notch on the progressive left's timeline of major events in anti-government extremism, as opposed to a principal example of government extremism where a tiny minority community was virtually exterminated.

http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/were-all-branch-davidians-now/

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 09:23 AM

Songwronger, your reply is vague and rambling. You are one who doesn't ask questions.

I do agree with you that the Branch Dravidian attack was a terrible thing.

Nonetheless, au revoir. (if that's how you spell that)

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 10:36 AM

Leeneia, what he realizes is that he gets attention when he starts nonsense threads that promote outlandish conspiracy theories. It isn't about the Murrah Federal Building bombing, it is about the kind of arguments that will be generated by throwing in a bunch of iffy citations from Yahoo searches.

I stand by my earlier statement.

Conspiracy Test - columns in Murrah Building. The stairwells and elevator core provided a lot of strength and protection for some columns that were closer to the blast. "General Parton remains unconvinced." His statement: "You can rationalize anything you want to."

The man is a fool. Is his first name "General?" Just because he expresses personal incredulity regarding the explosion, that doesn't mean that what experts say has occurred didn't happen. It means he is out there in public protesting that because he can't understand what they're saying it must not be true. It must be embarrassing for his friends and family that he is so stubbornly dense. And the same goes for Songwronger. Your (logical fallacy is called "personal incredulity"), if you can't understand, that doesn't make it not so. (Great little site for spelling these out quickly and concisely).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 12:31 PM

Thanks for the "Your Logical Fallacy" link, Stilly.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 11:25 PM

You folks have to believe in the government because you've been disarmed. Psychologically. I feel sorry for you, like I said. Your credulity will lead to disillusionment. Better to admit to yourselves now that you've been lied to all your lives by the government. Save yourselves some grief later on.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 11:44 PM

http://www.hourofthetime.com/okcbombingcoverup.html

Look at the affadavits at the bottom of that page.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 04:27 AM

You would have said impossible, if we hadn't had The Spycather scandal in England.

Our own security service in England seems to be an Augean stables that no government can face the task of cleaning.

When the Blair government came in 1997, some of us cherished real hope that he would face up to task and do some well overdue electoral reform - when he did neither, that was the start of my disillusion with him.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 08:59 AM

There are still no answers as to why Building 7 collapsed on 9-11. Don't expect answers from US leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 11:08 AM

You have such a misreading of Gnu it's incredible.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 11:17 AM

"You have such a misreading of Gnu it's incredible."

That was in response to a post now deleted in which my buddy was undeservedly attacked.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Megan L
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 12:29 PM

Thanks 999 I didnt see the original post but though he might be a glaikit gomeral at times Gnu is one of the finest and intelegent gentlemen on this site as are you.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 01:28 PM

That's sweet of you to say, Meg. Thank you.

"glaikit gomeral"

Gnu, don't worry about that. They now have a cure.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 08:22 PM

From the hourofthetime link above. The scanned documents are there, for review.

TIFFANY BIBLE AFFIDAVIT:

Tiffany Bible was a paramedic called to the Murrah Building following the bombing. This affidavit reports three important facts.

1. The ATF were not in the building (didn't come in to work that day)
2. That the ATF was already putting out a story that the Murrah Building was bombed "because of Waco" only a few hours after the actual blast and before Tim McVeigh was even arrested.
3. That an unexploded bomb was found attached to a gas line inside the building.

DoD (Dept of Defense) ATLANTIC COMMAND MEMO:

This memo, issued 24 hours after the bombing, reports at least two additional bombs were found in the Murrah Building.

FEMA SITUATION REPORT:

This FEMA memo also reports at least two additional bombs were found in the Murrah Building.

U.S. FORCES COMMAND DAILY LOG:

Again, confirmation of at least two additional bombs which were found in the Murrah Building.

JOE HARP AFFIDAVIT:

oe Harp, based on his military explosives experience, refutes the ANFO claim and identifies the additional bombs he sees removed from the building as being military in nature.

OKLAHOMA HIGHWAY PATROL RADIO LOGS:

...reports of additional bombs are confirmed by the fire department.

VIRGIL STEELE AFFIDAVIT:

Virgil Steele is the elevator inspector who discovered that the story told by a senior BATF agent about being trapped in a plummeting elevator was a lie. The elevators were in working order except for being without power, and nobody had been trapped in them. Virgil also sees two additional bombs being removed from the building.

Video of Tim McVeigh from a security camera at McDonald's in Junction City, cited as proof that McVeigh did not rent the Ryder Truck.

"McVeigh had been filmed by a security camera at a nearby McDonald's 24 minutes before the time stamped on the rental agreement, wearing clothes that did not match either of the men seen at Elliott's. There is also no plausible explanation of how he traveled the mile and a quarter from McDonald's to the rental agency, carless and alone as he claims, without getting soaked in the rain. The three people interviewed agreed John Does 1 and 2 were dry.

According to Stephen Jones, who has seen the interview transcripts, it took 44 days for the FBI to convince the car rental agency owner that John Doe 1 was Timothy McVeigh. And in the end they did not dare put him on the witness stand, for fear of what might happen under cross-examination."

This might explain why the initial description of John Doe I circulated by the FBI referred to a man with "pock-marked skin, fairly stocky" who stood about 5'10", whereas McVeigh is about 6' 3" tall, thin as a rail (160 lbs) and has a smooth complexion."

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 08:41 PM

Sorry gnu. I meant G-f-S not G-n-u.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 10:27 PM

Gust from Sanity said You folks have to believe in the government because you've been disarmed. Psychologically.

And I dislike arguing with an unarmed opponent. That's why I ignore you most of the time, it seems so unfair. Just because you can FIND this stuff doesn't mean it's real or true: "As Seen on the Internet" is just like "As Seen on TV" it means nothing - you have to THINK about the content, evaluate the sources, and decide if it's valid. You don't seem to have that filter in place.

Someone is probably sitting back, laughing his ass off for having suckered another visitor to his site. That would be you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: Megan L
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 02:18 AM

It saddens me that people spend so much time discussing something they cannot change while 40000 Norwegians stood in the pouring rain singing a peace song to let people like Anders Brevik know they cannot destroy their country.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 01:22 PM

Here's my view.

We are losing sight of what actually happened. A male loser, friendless, bitter and unattractive, placed a bomb so as to kill a bunch of little children - 19 of them. (True, others were killed.)

I think that some slayings of children, especially girls, are not founded in perversion, but in jealousy. There's a man, call him L., who is jealous and is convinced that society doesn't afford him the money, respect and status that he deserves.

he's jealous of another guy, call him H, who has a better life. H may not be rich; he may simply have a steady job or a loving family. L, the loser, is afraid to attack H, who is an adult male, alert and capable of defending himself. Instead he attacks H's little girl. And the more he tortures, debases and humiliates her, the more he's "showing" the society which failed to honor him.

McVeigh just did it on a huge scale.   All the government talk, and the federal talk, and the conspiracy blah blah blah is just window dressing.

Subject: RE: BS: 17th Anniversary of Murrah Bldg. Bombing
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 04:07 PM

I'll second that. And add, "idiot". Don't you know how much of an idiot YOU make yourSELF out to be for all and sundry, jossep?