Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SCARLET AND THE BLUE (from Yetties)
From: wildlone
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 06:16 AM

SCARLET AND THE BLUE
traditional

Oh I once was a merry ploughboy, a-ploughing in the fields all day,
Till a funny thought came to my mind that I should run away.
For I'm tired of the country life since the day that I was born,
For I'm going to join the army and I'm off tomorrow morn.

CHORUS: Hurrah for the Scarlet and the Blue, helmets glistening in the sun,
Bayonets flash like lightning to the beating of a military drum,
And no more will I go harvesting or to gather in the golden corn,
For I've took the good King's shilling and I'm off tomorrow morn.

Well I'll leave behind my old smock coat, and I'll leave behind my plough,
And I'll leave behind my old grey mare, for I'll not need her now.
There's a flag in dear old England, floating proudly in the sky,
And the watchword of our soldiers is: "We'll conquer or we'll die."

There's just one thing that grieves my mind and that's my Nelly dear,
I hope that she'll be proud of me when I am far from here.
And if ever I return again I'll let you all see me,
As I take my Nelly to the church a sergeant's wife to be


recorded by the Yetties on
CD Singing all the way-AVSCDAL 3009

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 06:33 AM

Is this the same tune as "Off to Dublin in the Green"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: wildlone
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 06:39 AM

I think it could be, I have sent the music to MMario so a midi might become available or you could send me a PM and I will send the music to you.
dave

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: The Walrus
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 07:32 AM

Animaterra,

"Dublin in the green" is a 1916 parody of "The Scarlet and the Blue"(originally a Victorian song), so, yes, the tune is the same.

Walrus

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: pavane
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 07:48 AM

Often called The Merry Ploughboy or The Royal Horse Atillery, who are mentioned in the version printed by Karl Dallas in 'The Cruel Wars'

Recorded by OAK, who claim that it was written in the 1870's by John J Blockley.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 10:11 AM

Thanks, Walrus. I guessed that one must be a copy of the other.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 11:16 AM

See also, in the DT:

THE PLOUGHBOY (THE WARWICKSHIRE R.H.A.)  No tune or source named.

THE MERRY PLOUGHBOY  Short parody (Off to Dublin in the Green); no tune or source named.

OFF TO DUBLIN IN THE GREEN  Parody by Dominic Hehan; no tune.

In the Forum:

The Ploughboy-anyone know it?  Contains texts of The Ploughboy / The Warwickshire R.H.A.; The Merry Ploughboy (John J. Blockley); The Scarlet and the Blue (short set noted in 1983 from Roy Last at Stonham, Suffolk); The Scarlet and the Blue/ Jolly Ploughboy (noted in 1982 from Gordon Syrett (b 1887) at Mendlesham Green, Suffolk); The Scarlet and the Blue (apparently John J Blockley's original text); what appears to be an unrelated text beginning There was a rich farmer's daughter; tune in abc format for an unrelated The Ploughboy (the one arranged by Benjamin Britten); link to text and tune for same at Lesley Nelson's site.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 12:42 PM

There is also a WW1 version often known as "The Khaki & the Blue" in which the wording differs slightly. Probably in the active recruiting of the time various local references were included to encourage men from that particular area to enlist. A good example of this is the Version recorded by the Watersons:

http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/~gillard/watersons/ploughboy.html

Its called simply "The Ploughboy" here, but it was announced at live gigs by the Watersons as being "the 'Tatton-Sykes Waggoners' Militia Recruiting Song"

(Tatton-Sykes was a member of the 'landed gentry' in East Yorkshire, who raised a Company for one of the War-Service Battalions of the local Regiment (The East Yorkshires) from the workers on his estate, & men of the surrounding Villages)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: wildlone
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 01:13 PM

Here is a blicky for Paul from Hulls link
Click here

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 01:19 PM

Thanks Wildlone! I really should practice doing them.....

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: MMario
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 03:05 PM

NWC file sent to JoeO & Animaterra

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 05:16 PM

Thanks, MMario!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 05:19 PM

Wow- I just listened to the midi. I grew up listening to my dad's Clancy bros recordings, and have "Dublin in the Green" on my mind every time I drive to Dublin, NH. But this tune is just different enough - I'd have to give it several listens if I wanted to learn it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: Micca
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 06:41 PM

Animaterra, If you can wait a little, I think I know it well enought to sing it to you...so maybe next week?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 09:01 PM

Oh, goody!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: SCARLET AND THE BLUE
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 06:29 PM

Looked at several threads on this one and apart from a few unverified references to John J Blockley the original still seems to be lacking.

All of the Blockley references seem to be traced back to some Bert Lloyd sleevenotes where he claims it was by Blockley and popularised by Ed Harrigan. I have looked at many sheets by Blockley and Harrigan and Hart and the lists on the back of the sheets make no reference to the various titles this songs goes under.
The Merry Ploughboy
The Warwickshire RHA
The Scarlet and the Blue.

(There was a WWI song called 'The Scarlet and the Blue' but that's a different song.)

Whilst the 1870 date looks very likely, in all my searches for the sheet music I have drawn a blank. Not even a broadside.

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 12:41 AM

I too am skeptical of the attribution to Blockley.

For one thing, Blockley seems to be known as a composer, not a lyricist.

WorldCat.org lists at least 50 pieces composed by him; nearly all of them identify a different person as lyricist. Of the few remaining, I haven't been able to verify that any have lyrics at all--they seem to be instrumental pieces.

So if Blockley had anything to do with this song, it seems most likely he composed music to go with someone else's lyrics--or maybe somebody made up words to go with one of his tunes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 12:55 PM

I'm quite convinced that, because of its widespread popularity and style, it was issued on sheet music some time between 1870 and 1900.
It is nearly always linked to The Royal Horse Artillery and was very likely written to be sung by them. Bert may well have been right and Ed Harrigan perhaps wrote it. I can't really think of a reason why he would make this up.

Off the top of my head Harrigan and Hart were a big hit in New York having come over from Britain. He may have written it before he went to New York.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: r.padgett
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 04:25 AM

I do like the Yetties version which makes things a bit more singable and the Scarlet and the Blue chorus rather than Khaki and the Blue, makes it more Yorkshire!

Ray

at least no rattle of the Thompson gun, thankfully

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 11:08 AM

Okay, time to resurrect this thread as remarkably we still haven't found the source. I collect sheet music and street literature and in all my years searching (at least 40) I have never seen anything that even could be the original and nor have other collectors I know of. plenty of oral versions. In fact it was very popular in the horse artillery regiments of WWI. I do think the Blockley connection is a red herring as I have plenty of Blockley's work both as publisher and composer/arranger and it is not mentioned on any of those sheets, or indeed anything like it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 03:26 PM

Just like to revise my comment on Harrigan and Hart who didn't come over from Britain. They were as American as pumpkin pie. They did make popular a song called 'The Blue and the Grey' which is unrelated. A piece of sloppy research could have easily been the cause of this mistake.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 05:57 PM

You're always honest with us Steve!

Chris B.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM

Okay 5 more years and still no nearer the original.

Just one little flicker of light. In Dave Hillery's excellent thesis (online) he gives a version of the song recorded near Whitby. He gives the same unverified info re Blockley writing it in 1870, but here's the flicker of light, a proposed title 'Hooray for Dear old England and Her Flag that's waving in the Sky'. Somewhat long title even for a Parlour Song. Nothing on Levy, nothing in Kilgarriff. And nothing by Googling.

Where are those folksong sleuths when you need them?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:40 PM

BL has 2 songs from 1884 and 1885 as The Scarlet And The Blue, but nothing for Hooray...

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:15 AM

Hi Mighty Mick. Happy New Year!

I think you posted that elsewhere. I have a vague memory of asking SteveR to check them out for me and they were nothing to do with Merry Ploughboy. Must be on another thread somewhere. I haven't checked the Musical Bouquet site yet but I think I would have noticed the title last time I went through it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 May 22 - 03:15 PM

Okay some slight progress by Steve Roud. Steve has just sent me 3 newspaper reports of informal 'smoking concerts' in which one of the songs was 'Hurrah for the Scarlet and the Blue'. They are dated 22.12.1888, 23.10.1903 and 3.6.1908, so 1888 is our earliest extant mention. I feel pretty certain, even though we only have a title, that this must be our song. We are creeping closer. Perhaps in another 20 years we will have a positive sight of the original!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Scarlet and the Blue
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 31 May 22 - 09:40 AM

Great work, as ever, Steve.

Regards