Industrial revolution/agricultural songs

Subject: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 09:31 AM

Ok guys you are probably going to tell me to search the DT, but I already tried. What I would like is a pointer to some traditional songs that mark the change over from an agricultural society to an Industrial based one in th UK. This is going to help me in a project that I'm trying to get set up out here for next year so it's mightily important, and I know some of you have a tremendous knowledge of what's what. Cheers

Alistair

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: SeanM
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 12:48 PM

How about 'They're Moving Father's Grave to Build a Sewer'?

No... really...

M

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 01:24 PM

Thanks sean.

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Kernow John
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 02:56 PM

Alistair
I can't think of anything in particular right now but I think there must be something in one of Mike Raven's books. I'll have a look next time I go to the music store.
Regards Baz

Subject: Lyr Add: Handloom v. Powerloom^^
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 03:55 PM

Does this fall into what you'd be looking for.

Handloom V. Powerloom

Come all you cotton weavers, your looms you may pull down
You must get employment in factories, in country or in town
For our cotton masters have a wonderful new scheme
These calico goods now wove by hand, they're going to weave by steam

In comes the gruff o'er looker, or the masters will attend
It's you must find another shop or quickly you must mend
Such work as this will never do, so now I'll tell you plain
We must have good pincop-spinning or we ne'er can weave by steam

There's sow-makers & dressers & some are making warps
These poorpincop-spinners they must mind their flats & sharps
For if an end slips under as sometimes perchance it may
They'll daub you down in black & white & you've a shilling to pay

In comes the surly winder her cops they are all marred
They are all snarls & soft bad ends for I've roved off many a yard
I'm sure I'll tell the master or the joss when he comes in
They'll daub you down & you must pay so money comes rolling in

The weavers' turn will next come on for they must not escape
To enlarge the master's fortune they are fined in every shape
For thin places or bad edges a go or else a float
They'll daub you down & you must pay 3 pence or else a groat

If you go into a loom shop where there's 3 or 4 pairs of looms
They all are standing empty a cluttering up the rooms
And if you ask the reason why t'ould mother will tell you plain
My daughters have forsaken them & gone to weave by steam

So come all you cotton weavers you must rise up very soon
For you must work in factories from morning until noon
You mustn't walk in your garden for 2 or 3 hours a day
For you must stand at their command & keep your shuttles in play

From "Folk Songs & Ballads Of Lancashire" Oak publactions 1973.
A more contempory song dealing with this shift might be Archie Fisher's "Men Of Worth", probably in the database. Interesting thread, are you only looking towards songs from England? Good Luck, Barry

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: SeanM
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 04:45 PM

Seriously though... It's an American song, but I've heard that there are versions of "John Henry" for just about every nationality - and it hits just about as precisely on Industrialization vs. agrarian as you can get...

M

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Bruce O.
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 05:24 PM

Roy Palmer's 'The Painful Plough' for the agricultural laborer, his 'Poverty Knock, for the industrial, and his 'The Valiant Sailor' for guess what?

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Susan A-R
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 10:04 PM

"Between the Beggar's Mantle and the Lights o' Peterhead" is about the dying out of the fishing/replaced by oil. come to think of it, there are lots of those, but they may be more currant than you are after. "Lads o' the Fair" is also contemporary, but gets at some of those issues. There's a comic one I remember hearing called "I wish I was in Liverpool" about someone who is so citified that the idea of going back to the country is appalling

I wish I was in Liverpool Liverpool town where I was born Where there ain't no trees, no scented breeze, no fields of waving corn Where there's lots of girls witn peroxide curls and the black and tan flows free . . .

I'll give it some thought.

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 06:59 AM

Thanks people this is really excellent!

Barry: Love the songs but is there a tune attached even if you sing it on a tape and send it out to me let me know because this is really important

Bruce: Poverty knock is the only one we've got at the moment...along with Dalesman's Litany which I'm not sure is traditional. That's another thing Is Dalesman's traditional?

Susan: Yes we are looking only for trad english songs because it's important to try and make a contemporary comection between live as was in Britain and live as was here in Brazil.

once again thanks people and keep them coming.

Subject: Lyr Add: Peg and Awl^^^
From:
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 07:37 AM

How about "Peg and Awl". It goes:

In the days of eighteen and one Peg and awl(2X)
In the year of eighteen and one,
Peggin' shoes is all I done,
Hand me down my pegs, my pegs, mu pegs, my awl

In the days of eighteen and two peg and awl (2X)
In the days of eighteen and two peggin' shoes is all I'd do.

Hand me down....

In the days of eighteen and three, peg and awl (2X)
In the days of eighteen and three, peggin shoes is all you'd see
Hand me down...

In the days of eighteen and four....
In the days of eighteen and four, I said I'd peg them shoes no more
Throw away my pegs, my pegs, my pegs, my awl

They've invented a new machine, peg and awl (2X)
They've invented a new machine. The prettiest thing you've ever seen
Throw away.....

Makes one hundred pair to my one, peg and awl (2X)
Makes 100 pair to my one, peggin' shoes it aint no fun
Throw away....

(Spoken by another band member) Some shoemaker!

It is recorded by the Carolina Tar Heels and is part of the "Anthologh of American Folk Music". I am pretty sure I have heard Pete Seeger sing it too.

Harry Smith claims that it was recorded many times, but doesn't appear in any of the standard printed sources.

Clarence Ashley does the singing except an unnamed band member chants the phrase "peg and awl" each time.

Murray

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 07:51 AM

Yeah but it's american and not trad english thanks I this song has been part of my repertoire for yeras I normally do it joined on to Working On the Railroad for a Dollar a Day.

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Susan of DT
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 10:12 AM

If you search for @work you will get several hundred songs, but you might want to cruise thru those for applicable songs

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:10 AM

Alistair,

May I suggest that you go to the bookstore or library and check out The Collected Reprints From Sing Out!. There are two volumes. The first one covers 1959-1964 and the second covers 1964-1973. I am looking at the index in my copies and see headings for "English Folksongs" and "labor". I would bet that a page by page perusal would turn up several songs that would be useful complete with short narratives on the background of the songs. I know that "Four Pence a Day" and "The Work of the Weavers" are in there.

Mick

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:15 AM

Mick is that on the web?

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:23 AM

Alistair,

I don't know, but your search engine could tell you. In fact, I will go do a search and post something in a few minutes.

Mick

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:31 AM

Alistair,

Set your search engine to [Sing Out!] and you will come to the homepage for Sing Out!. They have a lot of options available. Most of them through membership. One of those is a library of all the songs they have collected.

Another option is to acquire the two books I spoke of which may even be at the local library. I will try to take a look at them later to see what I can find you.

Off to see my daughter step dance.

Mick

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:49 AM

thanks Mick for the trouble...but being as I live in Brazil its a bit difficult to go to my local library I'll try the website

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 12:11 PM

Alistair, I will check through everything I have to see if I can assist, and send you a gif if I find anything. Give me a few days though.

Mick

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Ferrara
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 02:05 PM

Barry, the words to the Powerloom song are great. Would love to have the tune if you have time. You can e-mail as a NWC or MIDI if don't have time to put into ABCmus.

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 06:10 PM

Alistair & Ferrara,
I don't have the slightest notion of how to read all these formulars for posting music, I can't even read music never mind trying to write it so that it can go up on a screen. I can make a copy of the written music & send it snail mail if you both want to post me your addresses, either here or send it through a message, I only ask, if you can & know how to post music, that you would post it for any others that might have an interest. Barry

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From:
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 06:27 AM

Sorry Alistair, I thought it was of English origin when I typed it out. Then I did my homework and found no basis for that; but since I had already typed it....

Murray

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Ian Kirk (inactive)
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 10:03 AM

Alistair

Check out A.L.Lloyds fine book Folk Song in England - orginally published by Lawrence and Wishart, London. I don't know if it is still in print but your library may be able to get a copy. He has a chapter called The Industrial songs which I think cover the very subject you are interested in with example of the songs.

Good hunting

Ian

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Pete M
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 05:20 PM

Alistair, "The Cropper lads" springs to mind, I think its in one of Palmers books. Also try the Scottish TUC site, they were getting a collection together, don't know how far it has progressed.

Pete M

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: frankie boy
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 09:19 PM

pete seeger used to sing a song called 'manure-a minyar' about the displacement of a street sweeper after the hourses and there byproducts left glascow a on hourse town

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 05:09 AM

Ok right Thanks for all the info folks, I would just like to point out that my local library sort only has books in portuguese, so although your suggestions are well meant it's a bit difficult for me to get my hands on books about trad. british music (NOI)...though the net is a great resource unfortunately it doesn't have everything, that is why I am relying on the good graces of my fellow 'Catters to mail me stuff...so for those interested my snail mail address is:

Alistair Robb Av. Presidente Kennedy, 8014, Candeias, Jaboatao dos Guararapes. PE Brasil.

Thanks :o)

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:59 PM

By the way that address can be used for any kind people wjho might want to send any spare tapes they've got lying around with good music on them....being as I left my collection back home in the Uk with a friend who has subsequently disappeared.

"Take pity on a poor penniless folkie." *sniff sniff*

Subject: RE: Industrial revolution/agricultural songs
From: Bert
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 01:37 PM

Will Manurah Manyah do?