Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?

Subject: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:24 PM

Clifford Thomas Ward Born 10th February 1944 – Died 18th December 2001

He was one of my favourite singers and an excellent songwriter.

Although I guess most people would relate to him as pop, I just happen to think that he had everything that would have made him a brilliant Folk Singer.

Quote
'He is a keen social observer of the British in love, at home, at play and at work. His songs, though appealing perhaps to a less easily defined audience, form the link between The Kinks in the 1960's and Billy Bragg in the 1980's. He is a true romantic; a poet who is not afraid to express his feelings in ways which other writers and performers would write off as just too personal. Clifford has had no British chart hit since 1974, but he has a large and fanatical cult following. He has increasingly become a cult artist as a succession of record companies have been unable to mass market him because he cannot be pigeon-holed. His melodies are strong and his lyrics strike their own unique chords but he is an individual who will always do things his way. He has sacrificed commercial success for artistic integrity. Artists as diverse as Art Garfunkel and Ringo Starr have recorded his songs.'
Unquote

Sadly diagnosed with MS in 1984, however it was pneumonia that was to be his downfall.

He stuck to his beliefs and refused to do tours etc and was a staunch family man. He must have been a folkie.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Alec
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:30 PM

"Gaye","Scullery" Fine songs. Further to this he was a man of integrity in a world where that is becoming increasingly rare.
I think he must have been Villan.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM

Quite entertaining, but did he perform any traditional songs?

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:45 PM

Did he need to?

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:47 PM

Alec
Loked those songs very much, but one that really became and absolute favourite was "No More Rock n Roll"

So true when you have children and family to look after.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:50 PM

Andrew Tiffany does a great rendition of 'The Best Is Yet To Come' and will maybe do it on Friday if you ask him nicely. I like Clifford T Wards songs...not Folk as such but easy listening and done by a few Folk singers I have known.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:54 PM

Then he is not folk.

No disrespect, a fine acoustic performer, but not folk.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:58 PM

And up come the barriers :-)

I will ask Andrew, GS, although I don't suppose he will do it tomorrow night.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Alec
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:00 PM

Or,maybe he is not yet Folk? Geordie Ridley was not a Folk singer per se,but his compositions became so retrospectively.
Maybe we are living too close to events to accurately predict their outcome.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: GUEST,Wayne Kerr
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:55 PM

Nice bloke, nice side parting and waistcoat. But come on his music was slop!

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:35 AM

Sorry Guest (who is a member in disguise) but I can't agree with that.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:53 AM

Nor me.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:06 AM

Same old thing !! Time after Time after Time----What is Folk Music and what isn"t Folk Music ??? Who is a Folk Singer and who isn"t a Folk Singer ?? Will it ever end ?? Personally , I have never heard of the gentleman in question, nor am I familiar with any of his works,so I am inclined towards a "No" vote at this time. Sorry, but there it is------60 years old & never heard of Clifford T. Ward !!

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:26 AM

shame on you bubblyrat

61 years old and definately heard of Clifford T. Ward :-)

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:45 AM

It's a bit like a two way street with Pop Music at one end, and Folk Music at the other.
Clifford T Ward and Seth Lakeman meet halfway along, both going in opposite directions, and both driving in the middle of the road!
Giok

What about Peter Sarsted?

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:37 AM

Richard Bridge wrote above:
Quite entertaining, but did he perform any traditional songs?
(no direct answer - inference is "No")
No disrespect, a fine acoustic performer, but not folk

Interesting, Richard - from this, it seems if you sing at least one traditional song in your repertoire, you can be called a folk singer. But if you don't, you can't. Is that what you meant?

As for CTW, I confess I would have considered him a pop singer myself, albeit in the 'singer/songwriter' vein. I think we have one of his albums at home - maybe I should dig it out and listen again.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:52 AM

Easy Listening pop, a bit like Gilbert O'Sullivan. So definately not folk. This is not a barrier, but a legitimate paramater to define the music we love. There is nothing wrong with easy listening pop, by the way. I like Andy Williams but he ain't folk.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:57 AM

I can't stand Andy Williams :-)

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:53 AM

Andy Williams sang this - folky or what? :-)

The harbor lights were shining,
The moon was at its high.
The captain said, "Thank God we're home!
We've drunk the barrels dry."
The mizzen mast was shaken,
And the lanterns all burned low,
I'd never thought we'd make it
But we've twenty leagues to go
So blow you southern trades
And guide me safely to the shore,
I'll never ever gonna sail
The seven seas no more

(etc.)

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:13 AM

Always like Clifford T Ward, especially 'The Best is Yet to Come.' He also wrote and recorded a song about soldiers killed in the first world war, rather like Eric Bogle's 'Green Fields of France' but different tune of course, and different words.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:32 AM

Surely the important thing is that within any musical genre there will be songs which touch you & songs which don't & if a song moves you then that's enough regardless of where it is deemed to come from.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:38 AM

A lot of songs by CTWmove me. He defiantely wrote wrist slitter songs.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM

Part of what makes a song acceptable by the Folk World is the way it is treated ! IF any composed contemporary song CAN be classified as Folk (Which I find personally a VERY reasonable suggestion) The way it is performed will make a world of difference ! A lot of Pop and Rock numbers work perfectly well as acoustic Ballads (Ballad in the MODERN Context , of course) - Buddy Holly , the Beatles , Beach Boys ,
even the Rolling Stones are all acts whose songs I have heard done in Folk Settings without any clash !
Clifford T Ward was never , and never COULD be called Traditional , but that does NOT immediately bar his songs from performance by 'folk' artists .

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:44 AM

The OP asked if CTW was folk or pop.

I point out a one-way test. If he doesn't sing any folk songs (within the 1954 council definition) then he ain't folk.

If he does, he might be, but it ain't definite

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:48 AM

I suppose I should have worded it differently, so that it didn't become a yes no thread.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:54 AM

his lyrics strike their own unique chords

Hey, that's handy - wish mine did, it'd save a lot of work :-)

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:05 AM

The question is : How do you define folk music? The answer: When the CD is put back into it's case, do you put it with your other pop CDs or your folk CDs? Ofcourse, if you file them in alphabetical order, then it doesn't matter. Hey, I know someone who does this.

Subject: RE: Clifford T Ward - Folk or Pop ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

I file them in Category first and alphabetically second.
G