Help: Repairing Cracked Guitar

Subject: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 10:34 AM

Mister and I just came into the possession of a very sweet little Spanish guitar with a clean, straight crack down the bottom half of the top. Otherwise the guitar is in very good shape, and is a pretty little instrument. Is this something we could feasibly take care of on our own? It's not a guitar that's going to get played a whole lot. Any ideas & suggestions made in good faith are welcome. Many thanks!

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 10:38 AM

It also may be something that you won't want to fix. Which way does the crack run? With the grain? Between where and where?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: mooman
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 10:58 AM

It could be possible to fix this by minimally invasive surgery using cleats glued under the soundboard. But, as 'Spaw said, the position and extent of the crack is important in assessing whether a repair is feasible or even necessary. Is the top still level or does the crack cause it to sag? If the former, a simple repair is likely to be easier.

Best regards,

mooman

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:38 AM

Where are you located at?

Peter.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:42 AM

It's with the grain, straight as an arrow, from underneath the sound hole just to the bottom of the front, and there's no saggage that I can see.

I'm in Nashville. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Steve-o
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:38 PM

There's probably eighteen hundred and sixty two guitar fixers in Nashville....

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 02:36 PM

Yeah, but they all expect to get Paid.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:25 PM

Most large libraries carry books on guitar repair, and I suspect you'd find Nashville is better than most on the subject - loads of people must ask for them! Authors to look for are Teeter, Irving V Sloane and Hideo Kamimoto. If all that reading gets you down, there's a very good repairer called Obie Jones, who should still be in the book. If the guitar is not particularly valuable, filling the gap with a plaster-based filler coloured with tea would cover the damage and still allow for a more professional repair at a later date, as it will easily scrape out.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Bert
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM

I'm with Spaw on this one. If it sounds OK, why fix it?

Willie hasn't fixed his guitar and manages to do pretty well.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 05:39 PM

Well, I don't want it to get any worse... but I don't think it really can. I thought perhaps a little repairing might stabilize it and just keep it safe.

Willie's guitar hole has some character. I don't know how much character a CRACK can have! ;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 06:00 PM

Depending on what your agenda for the guitar is - this technique was first mentioned to me by a professional instrument maker. Superglue (cyanoacrylate ester? stuff) is thin and runny. It will naturally work itself along the crack and provide a bond between the two surfaces of the wood. This is about the only thing I have found it to be useful for - blowed if I can ever persuade it to stick anything else together - I've tried to stick my fingers together as advertised, but only partially managed that one twice in twenty years of trying!
Problems you may experience with this technique would be :-
GLUE CREEP (this is NOT an instruction to get rid of somebody you dislike) - Superglue seeps out of the crack onto the surface of your soundboard. If the board is already varnished it can make a mess of the varnish. If the soundboard is unvarnished, you should be able to sand the glue line flush with the wood, in which case it simply looks like natural resin in the grain.
If there is any oil in the crack, the glue may not bind to the surfaces.
I have a mandoline which got dropped and the soundboard cracked. The superglue technique has held it (there is no stress or pull on the joint) for many years without noticeably affecting the playing tone. There is a slight glue line on the varnish, but I can't be bothered to attempt to tackle that cosmetic blemish.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 06:08 PM

Kim,

Take this advice.

Don't even think of doing it yourself unless you have some experience you aren't talking about. More than once an attept to save $75.00 has destroyed the value of a $750.00 instrument.

What you have described is an easy fix for a pro, let one do it. Its more than cleats and clamps and superglue. It may require splines and deep clamps. Do you have knowledge of such? Tell the pro you'll change the strings yourself, save the money there.

I promise you'll thank me.

Don

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 07:02 PM

I agree with Don Meixner. If it is an expensive instrument, DO NOT mess about with it yourself - leave it to the professionals.
If, however, it is simply a nice, but disposable guitar, the superglue trick does work effectively.
Geoff!

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 07:22 PM

As a repairer, I would say take it and get an estimate of the cost of repair. A good man will also tell you if the guitar is worth it and if you think it's expensive you can resort to D.I.Y. You might find it would cost less than you thought!

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 08:48 PM

And my vote is for Spaw's solution. Herself has a guitar that United Airlines sat on in 1967. It has a couple of cracks from the sound hole to the bottom...and sounds just fine.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: 53
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 08:56 PM

I have a Gibson J-40 in which the pickgard is starting to come up. I want to have it fixed but I'm scared to do it cause it plays and sounds great. So I think that I'll just keep it the way it is.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 09:29 AM

My 22 year old Yammy developed a crack in the first year which slowly ran to 2 inches long on the top piece. It's still 2 inches and still sounds better than the Yammy copies made by Martin.:-)

If it plays. Leave it alone until it doesn't I would opine.

Spot

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:12 AM

I looked at it some more last night and it appears to actually be a split SEAM. Anyhow the neck is just a hair out of whack and will need to be adjusted so it looks like we'll be consulting with the professionals. We paid very, very little for this guitar with the agreement that even if we had to put some money into it, it would still be a worthwhile investment. It's a 3/4 size and we figured it would be a nice (and much less valuable) substitute for an antique parlor guitar, to use in our living history programs.

Whoever owned it previously had put steel strings on it, which we think may have put too much tension on it and contributed to its current ailments. But with a little work I think it's going to be a fine piece. There's some very pretty inlay work around the soundhole, and it's just a darn cute guitar.

Thanks for all your help. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: GUEST,zac
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:31 AM

From your description of the crack, it sounds to me that the guitar has a solid(not a plywood) top, and if I understand, the crack starts at the soundhole and runs to the lower bout of the guitar--that would mean( if I understand)that the crack runs under the bridge area. If it is a solid top guitar, whatever the brand, it has in my estimation, potentially more value than a plywood instrument. Guitar wood "takes on" moisture as does --- the wood moves--when wood dries out, it shrinks across the grain, and that is probably what has caused the crack. I would determine if there is any other braces loose( small mirror and flashlight) or if the crack is causing any "buzzing" as the guitar is played. Once you let time pass, and the crack gets dirt in it, it will be much harder to get the crack to close-- and more noticable, if the crack is repaired later. Someone suggested repairing it with a plaster concoction and tinting it with tea--saying that the"repair" is reversable at a later date by cleaning out the "concoction" and proceding with a repair---I would not want that individual working on my guitar---My best advise would be to take the guitar to a good repair person and at minimum, get an estimate as to the cost. Unless the crack is completely closed before you procede with a superglue repair, the superglue will only worsen the appearance---done correctly however, this is one situation that CA glue would be O.K. to use in instrument repair-done correctly,the glue line can be sanded and polished out and in many cases made near invisable.

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:33 AM

Zac, the crack does go under the bridge. It does buzz a little, but that's apparently due to the neck being slightly out of alignment and putting the strings too close to the frets. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:47 AM

Kim, as your description has gotten a lot further along, I agree that you need to see a pro and there are a number in Nashville.

One word on cyanoacrylics.......I've seen more stuff screwed up with the stuff through misapplication and using the wrong product than I care to think about. It does work well in some applications and you have to buy some from a reputable maker like Satellite to get different formulations. If you were ever going to use it to fill a crack, it would have to be a very small (thin) crack and should be done from the inside NOT the outside. I think tere is something on Frank Ford's site about this but I'll let someone else find it. Also, if you use them you need a "remover" product also or you'll likely as not have a bigger problem/mess than when you started.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Reparing Cracked Guitar
From: 53
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:36 PM

If it plays good, then don't fix it.

Subject: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: Kim C
Date: 20 May 02 - 10:37 AM

Remember my little cracked Spanish guitar from a couple months ago? I am taking it to the shop today (finally!) to have it looked at. It's going to need some neck adjustments too but I don't think that's too big of a deal.

Anyway, I opened up the case this morning to look at it and what do you know, but that open seam/crack has CLOSED ITSELF ALMOST COMPLETELY! Humidity, maybe? When we first got it, the opening was wide enough you could see the bracing underneath. Now, it's like it was never there except for one little tiny spot.

I'm again wondering if the steel strings the previous owner put on it caused some distress, and if having it unstringed for the last month allowed it to recover. I don't know. It baffles the mind.

Anyway, I am taking all of y'all's advice and having a pro (with a good reputation!) look at it, and I'm looking forward to having it in playing condition. It sure is a cute little bugger. :-)

Cheers---- KFC

Subject: RE: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: Kim C
Date: 20 May 02 - 03:10 PM

I have dropped off my little friend at the shop. They didn't seem particularly concerned with the crack, but said they would check it out and if they could get some glue in it they would.

The neck is the biggest thing - it's bowed backwards and will have to be heat set to fix it, which they said could be anywhere from $60-$100. That's about what we expected to spend, so I'm optimistic. :-)

Subject: RE: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: C-flat
Date: 21 May 02 - 02:33 PM

It sounds like a tricky job to straighten a bowed neck. Will it need refretting afterwards? Anyway, I think if you get it back in good working order for under $100 it's got to be a bargain. I missed your earlier thread on the guitar, so I don't know if you're repairing a "quality" instrument or one that's just special to you but you sound fond of the "little bugger" so I hope all's well with the repair.

Subject: RE: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: Kim C
Date: 22 May 02 - 12:43 PM

They said it "might" need some fretwork. What they do is heat the neck up and clamp it to get it back into position. Seems to be a pretty routine thing.

It was second-hand when I got it so I don't know if it's a "quality" instrument or not - it seems like it's built pretty well, it's just got some age and wear and tear. I told them to first get it playable, and if it needed anything else, we'd go from there. :-)

Subject: RE: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: GUEST,guitarfixer
Date: 22 May 02 - 07:44 PM

The most important issue with cracks is to "cleat" them. Small patches (on the inside) near the ends of a crack will prevent any further split. If the crack developed unexpectedly try to determine what caused such dryness and correct that. Humidify your music room in the dry season. Small guitar humidifiers can cause wide swings in humidity which often do more harm than good. Few of them do anything to keep the fretboard from shrinking. The good news: your guitar has solid wood, plywood never cracks.

Subject: RE: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: Kim C
Date: 23 May 02 - 10:54 AM

The guy said he thought there was a cleat in there - maybe it cracked before. Anyway, it's a very reputable shop here so I'm sure they'll do a good job with it. :-)

Subject: RE: Reparing Cracked Guitar, Chapter 2.
From: Kim C
Date: 23 May 02 - 01:37 PM

Good News!!! Mister just talked to the repair shop. $65 for the neck work, and the fellow at the shop says it's playable and sounds good. :-)