Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day

Subject: Folklore: When is Boxing Day
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 04:00 AM

The Snopes comments on Boxing Day suggest the origin is pretty vague but probably its origins are found in a long-ago practice of giving cash or durable goods to those of the lower classes. Gifts among equals were exchanged on or before Christmas Day, but beneficences to those less fortunate were bestowed the day after. Snopes also gives a number of 'origins' that are often asserted but are not true.

I'm interested in the question of when Boxing Day is. Normally, it is the 26th December but this year I am told it is not, because that is a Sunday, so Boxing Day is the day after.

Is there any traditional support for moving the day around in this fashion?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 04:17 AM

See The Book of Days, Vol. 2, pp. 764-65.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 04:33 AM

Thanks, masato.

The article covers the origins but does not seem to suggest that the day every moved from the 26th December. Does anyone know more about that aspect?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 06:11 AM

Maybe Boxing Day remains 26 Dec. but the Bank Holiday is Monday 27?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 06:29 AM

As far as bank holidays are concerned Monday 27th is Christmas Day, Tuesday 28th is Boxing Day, and Monday 3rd Jan is New Year's Day.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 08:38 AM

My understanding is that whilst St Stephen's day may fall on a Sunday, the giving of Christmas 'boxes' was always done on a 'working day', i.e. a day when the household would have business with the tradesmen. Thus Boxing Day could never fall on a Sunday

CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: ddw
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 09:25 AM

I'm assuming these comments are from the east side of the Atlantic, so answers may differ from what they would be in North America, where most retail sales outlets operate seven days a week. Which makes it unnecessary to "move" boxing day or any other holiday.

In much of North America, though, most retail stores are open seven days a week and a large portion of the continent has never heard of "Boxing Day," which as far as I can figure out is a British holiday adopted by Canadians. Since most no-work days here are governed by local bylaws, state/provincial legislation and/or negotiated contracts, if a real holiday falls on a worker's day off, he's given another day in lieu — generally, if the holiday falls on the weekend, the Monday. That way Christmas can stay on Saturday this year, but people will get a day off on Monday. As for Boxing Day, I think Ontario has made it a statutory holiday, so the retailers who stay open have to pay their staff at an overtime rate.

After that, it gets pretty complicated.....

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 09:35 AM

I was speaking from a British point of view, but we have 7-day shopping as well. It's just that old habits die hard, and it is traditional the Boxing Day cannot fall on a Sunday.

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 12:15 PM

Boxing Day has added significance in Canada. The big box stores advertize extra sale blowouts for the 26th, Sunday or no.

To assure that this thread remains in upper town, I found two Boxing Day broadsides at the Bodleian (entering- boxing):

"Boxing Day." Firth c.19(236). 1828-1829, London
"Boxing Day in 1847." Harding B13(143), ca.1847.

I believe that these were mentioned in a thread on Christmas, but I can't locate it. Thread 33441 has a Canadian Boxing Day song for which the thread originator was looking for a tune in 2001 (which I will refresh).
Boxing Day

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: jacqui.c
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 12:28 PM

I think that the bank holidays in the UK are just that - days upon which banks and financial institutions are closed - normally Saturdays and Sundays. In the UK now banks don't open on Sundays even if they do a half day on Saturday so it is impossible to have a bank holiday on a Sunday.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 01:42 PM

My father's father was at one time in business as a grocer with a mobile shop, in the wilds of Derbyshire, and he always refered to a christmas box, meaning either money or luxury items from business contacts and 'those beholden'.

Boxing day could not be a Sunday as there was an element of business or trade associated, and so it was not appropriate for the Sabbath Day.

Grandad used to get quite a few Christmas Boxes, and my father used to have the job of opening them, whilst grandad sat and threw the packaging and notes into the fire, and sometimes he would throw the whole thing in if he thought it not good enough. His wife gave him what for when she found that the wives of other tradesmen in the area were wearing real silk head scarves sent from one of the 'big houses' and that he'd taken it for cheap thing off the market and burnt it.

Anne

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 02:17 PM

Handsworth and Grenoside Longsword teams traditionally dance on Boxing Day, and this year dance on the Monday.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 06:04 PM

Wow! In Germany, we don't get extra days off if any part of Christmas falls on a weekend (as it does this year).
Anyway, can any of the British Mudcatters please explain how Boxing Day got associated with fox hunting? (Thinking of the song by Robb Johnson.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 07:18 PM

Boxing Day = holiday = no work = free time to go hunting

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 07:51 PM

In Canada (the States, too, I guess), legal holidays are mostly moved to Mondays. This means no work for many, but those working in the stores have to labor on (contracts, etc., may allow other days off).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 09:41 PM

It has always been my understanding that the tradition of Boxing day originates from when many working people were "in service" or apprenticed or otherwise worked away from home and had very little time off. If they were household servants, they couldn't have Christmas day off as they were needed to look after the family and guests. Boxing Day was the one day over the Christmas period that they were allowed to go home to visit their families, taking with them "Christmas Boxes" of gifts, generally donated by the wealthier families who employed them. Hence the tradition of cold meat pie and left over turkey for Boxing day - it was the cook's day off!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 01:48 PM

St. Stephen's Day became a day when delivery men, errand boys and servants of various kinds expected to receive a gift. The term Boxing Day appeared in print as early as 1833.
There are several suggested origins. Which, if any, is correct, is unknown. A sort of servants - poor man's Christmas seems a likely origin, however.

Wasn't the turkey an American import, the goose and swan still the favorites through Victorian times?

COLD meat pie?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 03:09 PM

A culinary oddity. Turkeys -- a New World bird -- came to England via (surprise, surprise) Turkey. The fatter, meatier domestic bird then went back across the Atlantic as the bird of choice for festive occasions.

The famous rhyme 'Turkies, carps, hoppes, picarell and beere,
Came into England all in one yeare' (1542) is inaccurate as it is known that hops, at least, were mentioned in English herbals more than a hundred years prior to that date.

Boxing day was the day the alms box at the back of the church 9every church had on)was opened and the alms meted out to the poor of the parish.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 04:15 PM

No verification for the idea that boxing day referred to the alms box, but it is as likely as other suggestions. Seems logical.

Turkey trivia-
The North American turkey (two species and several varieties) is billed as the bird used in Thanksgiving festivities by the Mayflower settlers, but the composition of the feast is unknown. Governor Bradford did write of sending hunters out for turkeys, ducks and geese, but not in connection with thanksgiving. The turkey also was being eaten in what is now the southwestern United States by Spanish colonists in this same time period.
The turkey had been domesticated by the native Mexicans and the Spaniards introduced it to Europe in 1519. The name came from turkeycock, a name for a Guinea-fowl, with which the American turkey was at first confused. It is not known whether Guinea-fowl or Am. turkeys are referred to in the "Turkies, carps etc." rhyme, although Am. turkeys were imported into England from Spain in 1524.

My reply to guest may be in error;- because of Dickens, in American minds goose always is associated with English festivities, Christmas or Thanksgiving. Many southern Americans associate ham with days of celebration, which seems to surprise some from other parts of the country.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Ed.
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 05:02 PM

Going back to DMcG's original question, I guess it comes down to what is meant by "traditional"

Wikipedia mentions that "Boxing Day itself remains on the 26th if that is a Saturday, but moves to the Monday if the 26th is a Sunday (the Sunday in question being referred to as Christmas Sunday)."

I have no idea how old that fashion is.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:50 AM

Thanks, Ed. So let me rephrase the question. Has Boxing Day moved between Sunday and Monday when the 26th falls on a Sunday:

a) always, as far as we can tell?

b) seems to have been introduced many years ago (with this evidence of it happening in the - for instance - 17c)

c) appears to be a recent introduction (with this evidence of it being on the Sunday in - say - the late 20c)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 04:38 AM

Britain has long been a Christian country, therefore, the Church ordained that no secular 'holiday' would have presidence over the Lords' Day. Christmas can be a Sunday, because that is a religious holiday (Holy Day), but Boxing Day can never be a Sunday because it was a secular day. Saints days never change (except by intervention from the Pope) so St Stephens' day is always 26th Dec, as the first Christian martyr. Boxing day seems to have been the day for secular activities - hunting, mumping, dancing and visiting families. It was also the day that many agreements of employment or tenancy came to an end. 25th Dec, the actual quarter day being a day of obligation, the moving was usually done on the following day, 26th. (The other quarter days were Lady day 25th March, midsummer 21st/22nd June and Michaelmas 29th Sept).

The rule of thumb to remember in the UK is that religious holidays can never move date(yeah, OK, Easter does, but it's based on the lunar calendar rather than the Gregorian one) but secular holidays (an oxymoron) can.

I remember having a Christmas Sunday in the not too distant past, and I remember having the same discussion with someone....

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 08:58 AM

Legally Christmas Day and Good Friday are not Bank Holidays. They are holy days under common law, and thus counted as if they were Sundays.

Other Bank Holidays are ordained by statute, and are thus created by man, not by God.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 12:56 PM

Yes Q - cold meat pie - like pork pie? with a raised 'hot water' crust? Certainly a tradition on boxing day in the North of England anyway!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 06:17 AM

Well my priest (Yes, I go to church!) told me that if 17th March was a Sunday, then St Patrick's day is Monday because mere saints cannot take precedence over God, who's day is Sunday. So that contradicts the above notion that St Stephen's day is not moved!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:04 AM

Well, this is the first time in history that the BBC have got it wrong! Last time Christmas day fell on a Saturday a number of the lesser channels kept calling Sunday Boxing day while the BBC rightly called it Christmas Sunday. However, this year the Radio Times seems to have been been swayed by foreign trends to put aside old traditions and put Boxing day on Sunday. Well, not in this house - today is Boxing Day and to prove it I ate a chocolate orange before rising as has been my own tradition!
Mrs.IfeelslightlyqueasyonboxingdayDuck

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:45 PM

GLAD TO HEAR THE REASONS BEHIND THE DIFFERENTS IN THE DAY . MRS DUCK ! HAPPY QUACK QUACK BOXING DAY TO US ALL !!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:48 PM

I always noticed how much boxing (the sport ) was followed on the boxing day I had in Wales . Not to confuse anyone .. All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of Boxing Day
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 04:24 PM

It depends on the saint and on the local tradition. I've never had Sunday take precidence over a saint's day - it's always been 'the feast of St Whoever'. The only change that is different to that is the feast of St Martin, which is 11th November. That has always been Rememberance Sunday to me, and in my church of St Martin, we celebrate the previous or nearest Sunday.

LTS