Tech: Posting audio tunes?

Subject: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:34 AM

Lots've sites have tunes on, including this one.

The Mudcat ones are almost exclusively for songs.

Other than having tunes in ABC or other notation, is there any way that melodies alone - not song tunes, can be listened to on here?

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: treewind
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:45 AM

The Mudcat server would be hopelessly overloaded if we were downloading media files from it. (it's slow enough as it is, when it's busy)
That's also why you don't get masses of graphics coming at you from mudcat, and long may it stay that way.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:54 AM

There's lots've midi's in the DT for song melodies, which don't overload the system, so why not midis for tunes?

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:47 AM

probably because there are other excellent sites for tunes, not songs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:52 AM

dunno if this is any use ???

a free hosting site for mp3's..

it was suggested as a resource for posting tunes
at a guitarists forum i frequent.

the site owner states

"This free service is available for anyone to upload original works only. No copyrighted material or covers of copyrighted material. This means that if you didn't write the song, please do NOT upload it, or it will be removed."

so can't pre-guess his stance on "Trad/Arr"
or how long-term this option could be.


but here it is anyway if anyone cares to try it
to add quick posts of tunes to their threads..


http://lightningmp3.com/

probably similar and better hosting sites out there
if anyone knows where to look ????????

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: treewind
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:40 AM

"Why not MIDIs for tunes"

Well, yes, but you'd already dismissed "ABC and other notation", which I took as covering MIDIs.

If you mean tunes as opposed to songs, I guess the question's been answered:
(a) historically the Digital Tradition was originally about songs (especially lyrics)
(b) there are good other tune sites, and the ones for musicians deal in ABC which is ideal and the equivalent of song lyrics as text.

My first reply assumed you meant something like MP3. There, apart from the bandwidth problem, you're talking about actual recordings so there are going to be copyright issues, except where the users upload recordings of their own performances. That's pretty well covered by sites like MySpace, anyway.

One possibility for Mudcat would be a place where people post links to their own web sites with their uploaded MP3's on. That way Mudcats' bandwidth wouldn't be compromised and we could point each other at tunes.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:51 AM

"could point each other at tunes."


No giggling aloud!


Sorry, I know where the door is...

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From:
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:53 AM

If you look at the various song files in the DT, you will find MIDI files are linked to many of the songs. Also in the Mudcat Forum there are MIDIs linked into many of the Message Threads, but again, not all of them.

Also in the Quick Links there is a link to Mudcat MIDIs

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:53 AM

treewind,

not exactly, & I mentioned, rather than dismissed, the notationals.

I mean that as there's clickys for midi's on the songs, why not for tunes also?

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:56 AM

Mr Happy

A Tune is a SOng Without Words!


;-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From:
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:58 AM

Mr Happy, are you looking for tunes outside of the songs we have here at the Mudcat?

If so, there are plenty of sites for that purpose. Especially for "Fiddle"/"Celtic" tunes. Look for JC's ABC Tune Finder as well as "thesession.org". Both sites offer both ABC & MIDI tunes.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From:
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM

Mr Happy. Not sure I understand. We do have Clickies to JUST the tune to the various songs. Check in Quick Links to Mudcat MIDIs

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:00 AM

Mudcat hosts midis of melodies for songs, especially those melodies which are not yet included in the DT database - and through the DT/songwrite format for those WITH a melody in the DT.

I think Mr. Happy is asking why not also host midi's for instrumental tunes.

If that is the question -

there probably is no reason it can't - except that there are already excellent sites available with many many instrumental tunes available and the duplication of effort wouldn't be worth it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:02 AM

Yes, I know about those other sites, but note that others have posted tunes on here in the past using notation, & there's often a discussion ensues.

My initial query is very simple.

Why supplied melodies for songs but not for tunes?

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:09 AM

Btw..

that mp3 hosting site i posted earlier would obviously be more appropriate
for odd occasions when people just need to quickly post an audio file
foe whatever practical reason relevant to any point being discussed in a thread..

eg.. "why is my brand new expensive banjo making this
weird clunking noise !!??"

or.. "can anyone help identify this old trad melody i'm humming/whistling
very badly from vaguest memory..
..actually my dog can howl it better, let me just pass him the microphone..???"

y'know.. that sorta ephemeral audio posting..

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:13 AM

Do you mean on the mudcat midi site or in the DT. For the DT you'd have to ask Dick Greenhaus - and I suspect because the DT has always focused on songs.

As for here, see above. The midi's for songs are for the most part a by-product of preparing them for the DT; since the instrumental tunes aren't harvested for the DT. . .

BUT - if they are posted in ABC - you can select the ABC notation, copy it and paste it into the box on this site [http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html] and hear it or produce tadpoles.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From:
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:15 AM

I think the reason why the melodies as supplied in either MIDI or Songwright, are only the tunes for songs and not tunes alone is because we concentrate on Songs here. Those sites concentrate on Tunes.

Were you looking for a particular tune?

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:19 AM

No, I'm merely curious about why there's no midi's for tunes here

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:56 AM

but...there ARE midis for many of the tunes...

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:00 PM

Bill D,

Where on here?

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:16 PM

Bill! Don't be mean!

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:22 PM

They are in the dropdown menu of Quicklinks under Mudcat MIDIs, and they are in the threads for the tunes, where such threads have been created. More threads with more MIDI notation can always be added, if people have an interest in doing it, but since they already exist in plenty elsewhere there has not been that much interest.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:23 PM

MUDCAT MIDIs

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:55 PM

I wasn't being mean...many of the lyrics say "play here" at the bottom. I was confused about how anyone could miss them if they looked about a bit...

I guess I was in a hurry when I posted and didn't say enough.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From:
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:12 PM

And the Quick Links to the MIDIs were mentioned for Mr Happy several times.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:14 PM

okay - thought you were being deliberately obtuse regarding Mr.Happy's distinctions between melodies for songs (which he knows about) and "tunes" - by which he means melodies which have no commonly associated lyrics.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:19 PM

Generally, we emphasize tunes for songs that have lyrics, and we're trying to collect tunes for all the traditional songs that have lyrics posted in the Forum or the Digital Tradition. We get a little squeamish about posting the tunes to copyrighted songs - it kinda depends on the situation and on a number of factors. If the songwriter is a member of the folk community and isn' the kind of person who will mind having a tune posted, that's one thing. If it's a recent commercial song published by a big corporation, we probably wouldn't be interested in posting it.

The Mudcat MIDIs section is open for browsing and listening, but MMario and I have not been able to post tunes there for a couple of years, since our Big Crash. Instead of that, I'm posting MIDI files in space Jon Freeman lent us [hey - thanks, Jon!!], and I'm hoping we'll be able to move those files over to Mudcat MIDIs someday. I'll be glad to post lyrics-related tunes people send.

As for purely instrumental tunes, I'll post those at Jon's site - but only if there's a discussion tied to the tune. I don't want to get into the business of posting hundreds of fiddle tunes - but if there's a tune here or there that supports an ongoing discussion, that's something I'd welcome.

You can find a huge collection of instrumental tunes at JC's ABC Tune Finder, and I'd prefer that our instrumental tunes don't overlap what's already at JC's and other sites.

Generally, I don't post MP3 files because I don't want to fill up all of Jon's space, but I will occasionally post one temporarily when it's related to a discussion.

So, if you want a tune posted, e-mail it to me, [e-mail] - the job just got a lot easier for me because I now have a broadband connection.

-Joe-

---

You're always welcome to post ABC tunes in the Forum - but if you're posting a bunch of tunes, it's not a good idea to have one thread for each tune. A thread is supposed to have at least a few messages and include a bit of discussion - not just one ABC tune all by its lonesome in a thread. Give a more general title for the thread, and then put the title of the individual tune in the message title. I link to include the following at the end of messages that include ABC tunes:

To play or display ABC tunes, try concertina.net

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:39 AM

Thanks to all above for help & info.

Looked at Jon's Folkinfo, he's got the sheet music for lots've stuff too.

Got midi & sheet music for 'The Foggy Dew' which I was seeking from JC's.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 08:17 AM

Again, we only really do songs (ie. words and tune) though, Mr H. There are several sites holding tunes (see http://www.walshaw.plus.com/abc/tunes.html for a listing of abc collections) but most are picked up and indexed via JC's abcbot and can be found using his tune finder.

You can get sheet music online for some of the dt songs btw. Yet Another Digital Tradition offers them. Also there are the pages I knocked together while discussing the dt over here at http://www.folkinfo.org/dtdatabase1/. Both are on the Spring 2002 database though - I don't think there has been a later downloadable release yet.

---

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting audio tunes?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 08:42 AM

OH and... One exception we have to the song+tune is something I tried to get going ages ago but like most things, it never took off... That's is the abc projects.

With that, I can take a collection of abcs as one or more text file. The system will then detail the contents as you can see from the existing "collections".