The National (England) 2007?

Subject: The National (England) 2007?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 06:05 PM

Are we likely to have a National for England 2007?

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:50 PM

I doubt it.

Dave

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:23 AM

More info?

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 05:38 AM

As far as I understand it from a conversation I had with John Heydon at Whitby a few weeks ago they are still looking for a venue (same requirements as set out on a thread on this site last year), and are still having difficulty in finding one that ticks all the boxes. The idea of a festival next year is probably a non-starter in view of the lack of a venue at this point. If anyone knows of a suitable venue that might be a goer for the future, please contact Mr Heydon.

Personally I'm suffering severe withdrawal symptoms for lack of the National - it was always my favourite festival, and the start of the festival year just doesn't seem the same without it.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:14 AM

Well it seems to me that the National (England) was rather elitist and South of England biased although embracing largely traditional singers, being closer to London

However I do know that anumber of potential venues have been suggested

Need I believe a venue with rooms such as hotel or college, that can be taken over almost totally for a weekend

Has bedrooms
Possible indoor/outdoor camping at such as rugby or football club
Has catering, or near town/village/city
Near to major motorway
Has organisers that can organise and are not elitist
Have a vision and perspective of what their audience feel that they need ( find out!!)

Ray

All replies to John Heydon!!!

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:28 AM

I went to the last two and it seemed like a fairly even spread of participants to me. (Last time I saw Terry Whelan for example). Year before it was Ray Fisher. And a couple of years ago there was an Irish contingent. It is sad that it is no longer going and like others on this thread, would love to see it return.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:25 AM

Good heavens, I think of Nottingham as almost north! (and I was at uni there)

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:20 PM

Yes there was a good crowd from Ryburn 2 steps a time or two including Terry Whelan, Mary Humphries, Chris Manners, Pete Coe, Sylvia Needham, Vic Gammon and co also Jim Bassett, Will and John etc

Also saw Sarah Grey and Webber Fentiman, but there are lots of other folkies too who appear at Northern FFs who are overlooked

I feel that a festival needs to be balanced for entertainment and all music song dance and storytelling yes impossible really in week end

Ray

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 07:22 PM

Ray - can't agree with you. It may not have been to your taste, but as far as I'm concerned the National was exactly what I wanted - song based (mostly), traditional, and with a large number of lectures and workshops centred on traditional music and song (or in Doc Rowe's case customs). There was a good balance available between music and workshop/lectures and sessions - dance doesn't interest me in the slightest (except to listen to the music), and this festival never purported to be a dance based one - for that you go elsewhere. It was also small, intimate, and fun, and what's more comfortable and under cover in one place for most of us(unless you wanted to camp.) No inkling AT ALL of elitism - I'd hardly have continued going if that was the case, and I was hooked on my first visit. In fact I made quite a few friends there - some of whom I haven't seen since the last National as they were from the North or the Midlands! It was (hopefully might continue to be) the only festival which I HAD to go to each year (except on the occasion where an operation precluded it).

As for being Southern biassed - heaven knows where that one came from. It was based in the Midlands (took me quite a long time to drive there every year from down in the South). The English singers booked were - to my eyes as a southerner - mostly from the North or the Midlands, or more to the point from Scotland and Ireland. The number of English singers had dwindled somewhat over the four or five years before the (so far) final one, when the number of English singers happily increased - and I would have said that the number of North/South individuals were relatively balanced around the UK on that occasion. I think you'll find that there are just as many good performers from the South of England who appear in clubs or Southern folk festivals who don't get booked either.

As far as I'm concerned the organisers certainly were booking what their customers wanted, and I am personally aware that they listened to suggestions which were given to them - otherwise why would so many of us have returned year after year without fail (and I know that I'm not the only one who's suffering from withdrawal symptoms!)

I submitted one or two possible locations (having contacted the conference centres in question for details first) as possible venues - but the requirements for the festival (needing at least 200 bedrooms for hire, bar, certain types of performance areas and rooms, catering facilities, proximity to an airport and transport locations etc, and availability over the Easter period ) do mean that there has been difficulty in finding somewhere else, as far as I know. I'm keeping my fingers crossed..........

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 03:39 AM

Maybe some of the requirements might wisely be bent a bit? Better to preserve the festival and lose some of the attributes than it be lost altogether.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 08:42 AM

The UK folk festival scene's been shaken to the core in the last couple of years, what with the loss of the National and re-construction of Sidmouth. Still, life goes on (after a fashion!)

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 12:05 PM

Anyone tried Repton School...just off M1 near Derby..nice and central? though it's village based there are pubs and eating placec there. The school site is spread all round the village.. and very attractive. certaily courses and what have you are hed in the school beaks..worth asking.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 01:31 PM

I think I suggested Repton before, and the problems raised were bedrooms rather than dormitories and booze. But if the village could be taken in I still think it's not a bad idea. Repton of course has a musical association, thanks to the Repton School Big Band.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 08:09 PM

Bedrooms were a pleasant option to have; but I can't see why they should be a necessity. Camping and indoor camping is surely acceptable for most people.

The suggestion that the old place was too far South is pretty bizarre. It was pretty well the centre of England.

It was a great way to kick off the season, and a wonderful atmosphere. Actually it felt remarkably like the Mudcat, in a strange way, more so than most other festivals I've been to.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 08:01 AM

Sorry McGrath - "most people"??? There are many more than a few of us who wouldn't consider camping of any sort an option in a month of Sundays, or at any time ever in my case- the fact that accommodation of a civilised nature was available was one of the appealing non-musical factors that attracted me to going to the National in the first place, and also gave it part of it's special flavour.

As to feeling like the Mudcat, maybe because there were more than a few Mudcatters who were regular attenders??

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: mustradclub
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 08:52 AM

There are many reasons why I miss the National Folk Music festival. The main reason I think was its unique policy of focusing attention on the "traditional" performers. It was a festival where great artists like Martin Carthy,Peter Bellamy and others where more than happy to play a supporting role indeed in the case of Bellamy he insisted after being called on to do the final song in a session that Fred Jordan should actually sing the last song.

The National was also the festival where I first saw people such as the Stewarts of Blair, Lizzie Higgins, Kevin Mitchell, and Frank Harte to name but a few. Some of the informal sessions there were wonderful especially one glorious spring afternoon session led by Frank Harte.

Looking down the list of performers who appeared at the National during the time I went there I see no evidence whatsoever of a southern bias.

The National was an extremely well run festival and was held at just the right time of the year (we had survived another winter)The fact that it all happened under one roof and that you could at least until the last few years drink till all hours in the bar was also a great help.

Ken Hall

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:28 AM

I don't understand. Is it The English National, the UK National or what? What is the reason behind the word England in the thread title? I have no agenda, just looking for clarification, thanks.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:57 AM

Ray (much higher up) said:

music song dance and storytelling yes impossible really in week end

I haven't been (for a number of complicated reasons) since it started calling itself the 'national' but was there from the beginning when the EFDSS ran it at Keele and then Loughborough. I know only from hearsay how it has evolved but back then we managed all the above plus 24-hour sessions under the stairs.

And I agree with McGrath about how unrealistic (and expensive) it is to insist on a venue with bedrooms on tap (as it were). OK, in the past we piled in, 19 or so to a room, but I suppose H&S/Fire Regs have put a stop to that. And because of changes in academic terms, it only going to become more and more difficult (and thus more expensive) to secure this sort of campus venue.

What dance teams tend to do is, in addition to campsite accommodation, is to block-book backpackers' hostels which are cheap, cheerful and adequate. York, for example, a 'northern' city easily accessible from everywhere (but two hours by train from London), has several of these, many excellent performance venues and a thriving local scene.

Just some thoughts. Nowt to do with me, really.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 11:31 AM

Not sure about 24 hour sessions under the stairsCountess, since my stamina seems to flag round about 3 am, at which time the sessions in the bar were usually still in full swing. However,I DO recall taking part in a singing session in the corridor outside the ladies in 2004, which I think was initiated by John Waltham, which was still going strong when I left it at 3am in the morning - the acoustic was fantastic, and there was suggestion of congregating inside the gents the following night to carry on the session (as the acoustic in there was supposedly better). Sadly that never materialised as the organisation of the foray in quesetion never quite got off the ground! (I think we ended up in the comfort of the Octagon Room instead).

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM

I'd still say "most people", Surreysinger - "most" doesn't mean the same as "all", of course. Ideally a place with loots of bedroom available would be best, of course, but if that can't be found I still think a tent city round a building with lots of usable rooms and a couple of halls, and an option for indoor camping, could work well enough.

One thing that made the National special was the fact that there was just the one communal eating place, and the one bar. I wouldn't want that all the time everywhere, but it worked well, it kept things moving.

I'd think that there are a fair number of schools which could supply what's needed.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Malc R
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 05:15 PM

In response to GUEST above, it is the National (England) 2007 as opposed to the National (USA) or one of the many other international Mucat gatherings, the title is not intended to be mutually exclusive to England, but to advise the forum readers of the locality. I hope this clarifies the title for you.

Cheers

Malc

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: GUEST,Mr. Ed
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 05:46 PM

Have you tried Aintree?

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:24 PM

There is also a National (Scotland) about which this isn't.

Nationals website (UK)

THe above website deals with both

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:19 PM

Not that the National was ever exclusively for English music. Last time I met Frank Harte was when he was there as a featured guest, and he had a great time. (So did every one who went to his workshop and so forth.)

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 08:03 AM

I suspect that we were both sitting in the same workshop together then!! I recall, if it IS the one I'm thinking of, that he was in tears at the end of one of the songs he was singing - as was I, and my sister next to me as well! I also remember him using a quote which I scribbled down in haste, and promptly lost shortly afterwards which summoned up for me what good singing is all about (ie singer as vehicle for song, and NOT the other way round!)...

"All the songs are living ghosts
and long for a living voice"

from a poem by Brendan Kennelly (thanks to Jerry O'Reilly for finally re-acquainting me with these two lines, and indeed the whole poem, after Whitby this year). There was something about the atmosphere in those two lines which sparked a response in me, and no doubt part of that was due to the use of the words in the context of the workshop (which I believe revolved around the Famine and emigration songs). That was the one and only time that I ever saw Frank Harte in action - if it had not been for the National, I doubt I ever would have, but now it is a memory I am glad of. (And of course I can think of many more like that). A very special festival, as far as I'm concerned......

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 10:54 AM

That's the kind of thing I had in mind earlier - worth sleeping on the cold cold ground for that. Though having the option to choose a bed in place of that was greatly appreciated.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 12:05 PM

[Big grin] So we can both agree on that one then!

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:47 PM

Repton: look at its website..Google it The Archway. Many bedrooms are for four or five ..mass dormitoties Dickens style a thing of the past. The Sixth form has a bar and common room...brand new theatre building there..lots of space..worth exploring i would have thought

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: GUEST,Whitby Folkie
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:59 PM

Surrey Singer .... I had the pleasure of attending Frank Harte's commemorative concert at Whitby 2005 and I heard Jerry O'Reilly recite Brendan Kennelly's poem in full which then led into an English Napoleonic song beatifully sung by a Graham O'Callaghan which really complimented the poem's message.

Subject: RE: The National (England) 2007?
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 04:16 PM

Some interesting comments many ( not most) of which I can relate to

I do think that festivals tend to be "horses for courses" I like the Aintree suggestion

Tis some 180 miles or so from Newcastle on Tyne to Loughborough/Leicester and about 140 from Surrey with festival visitors from many places in UK and further away

I am sad that a venue has not been found yet, but as with many things the void is usually filled eventually one way or another, often exploiting the new venues attributes folk music and song

There are many festivals now in the UK each catering for its own clientelle and having its own "stars"

Good luck to them all

Ray