BS: Nobody likes a Tory

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 05:40 AM

That's alot of posts Richard. Are you feeling okay?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 10:22 AM

Why are you bombarding us with all of this stuff, Richard? We, who are unhappy with the present Government, know all of this already. Shouting at us about it won't improve things.

But you know what will, though? Making your precious Labour Party electable again! That's a big ask, though - because you'd have to get rid of the Blairites, the Brownites, the dogmatists, and the smug, pseudo-socialist gob-shites, and the crypto-Tory free-marketeers and all of the other idiots that you insist on packing your party with. In addition Labour would have learn to listen to people- rather than assuming that they know what's best for them and cramming doctrinaire garbage down their throats. Perhaps then your party might stay in power for a bit and have the opportunity build the fairer society that most people want - and you lot claim to want.

But I suspect that Labour is much more comfortable in opposition from where its supporters can perform their, "I'm-more-socialist- and-holier-than-thou-aren't-the-Tories-awful" act to their heart's content!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 10:38 AM

Yes! I agree with that Shimrod.
The Labour/Tory shit is divisive, we either wait till our living standards have declined to the point where we become "competitive", and watch our young folks rot for twenty or thirty years, or we admit that Capitalism has failed....just as Communism failed...and try to construct a society which is not driven by the power of money.

The Communists made the mistake of trying to compete on the Capitalists ground, with Capitalist weapons.

We need inspiration and courage.....and no false promises.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:22 AM

My purpose is to demonstrate just how bad how many conservatives are. Every little helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:58 AM

There are arseholes of all political persuasions, the tories don't have a monopoly - ask the people of Doncaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:22 PM

This has to be the most boring thread ever. It is dull and pointless. If the main contributor wanted to make it boring on purpose just to prove that it could be done, well Dick, you proved your point. It is repetitive and almost impossible to read. Go through the comments and see if you can stay awake.


very boring indeed.


now here are some tips on golfing...


When you pick up a golf club your hands are the only part of your body that touch the club. For many years the hands (grip) have often been referred to as the steering wheel of the golf swing. I don't believe this could be more true. Gripping the golf club correctly makes playing this game a much better experience.
Gripping the golf club at first glance does not seem like a very difficult thing to do, however, it can take a lot of trial and error to figure out the correct grip for you. This is a very interesting aspect to the game of golf. Gripping the golf club is a VERY INDIVIDUAL thing for everyone that plays golf. There are no two grips alike. You can only find what works for you through hitting golf balls. I can and will guide you, but ultimately, results on the golf course speak louder than me.

Place the golf club up in your left hand, the golf club goes across the left palm- from the base of the forefinger to the pad above the pinky.
Now, hold the handle steady with your left fingers and wrap your palm around the top of the grip...

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:33 PM

""People like Don(Wyziwyg)T want far far worse, it's the only way they can justify their existence, trouble is they drag everyone else down to their level.""

OK arsehole, what exactly do you know about me, or what I want?

Nothing!!.............So STFU until you have a sensible comment to make.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM

I totally agree this thread is boring and repetitive, just like the ramblings of Tories (and their supporters) and golfers

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:40 PM

""Just how bent do they have to be before they ALL go?""

At least as bent as Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown would seem sensible, and that didn't kill off any of them.

In terms of jail for fraud it's Labour MPs 3 - 1 Tory Peer.

Facts have a horrible way of messing up a good old fashioned bias, don't they?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:44 PM

'This has to be the most boring thread ever'

well theres some tough opposition there. I'm quite enjoying the thread. if you don't like it, don't read it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:53 PM

No Don, that just shows that law ia as bent as a corkscrew. Lets be accurate three labour guys and one black bloke- that's the real score.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:02 PM

""DAVID Cameron has broken a promise to boost the numbers of health visitors working in the NHS, with levels now at a record low.""

Are you suggesting that Cameron is God, and can just produce Health Visitors with a snap of the fingers.

My daughter who is already a grade E nurse (pre nursing 2000), and is currently doing a degree course to become a Health Visitor.

There has been a desperate shortage for years, and it's a bit inane to believe that anybody has broken a promise because it hasn't been filled in just 17 months.

Doubly stupid to blame the new government for the current campaign of disruptive and destructive actions being carried out by Administrators in both the NHS and in local councils, even Tory led ones like KCC, who took on a number of senior staff on a temporary basis at astronomical salaries simply to operate as hatchet men in getting rid of more junior staff.

Half a dozen of them will walk out very shortly with six figure handshakes, while the rest of what staff remain have their pay frozen.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED CASE! Nor is it confined to Tory organisations.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:13 PM

""Tamasin Cave, of the lobbying transparency group Spinwatch, said the records of ministerial meetings showed the wide extent of corporate networks of influence, but she also warned they may merely scratch the surface.""

And of course Ms Cave couldn't possibly have an axe to grind or be as bigotted a left winger as some who quote her (unsupported by evidence) guesswork about the sub surface levels.

No, she's slagging the Coalition so it must be true,........eh Richard?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:09 PM

£20bn NHS cuts ARE hitting patients
www.guardian.co.uk
David Cameron and Andrew Lansley say patients should not suffer from 'efficency savings'. The facts reveal a different story.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:32 PM

"In terms of jail for fraud it's Labour MPs 3 - 1 Tory Peer."

a thief is a thief regardless of political stripe or nationality.... so the the smugness is rather misplaced isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 03:55 AM

Even the Daily Mail turns on the bent conservatives and their lobbyist friends

https://www.facebook.com/notes/nobody-likes-a-tory/no-action-on-lobbyists-funny-that/10150336430683182

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:00 AM

Another bent bastard conservative minister controlling profits from from his functions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/17/jonathan-djanogly-stripped-power-ambulance-chasers?newsfeed=true

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:17 AM

"Even the Daily Mail turns on the bent conservatives and their lobbyist friends"

Dickie, thought you would not believe a word they print ?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:19 AM

Lots of good (bad) stuff on the facebook page today! This appalling government has fulfilled all our worst expectations.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 07:36 AM

""a thief is a thief regardless of political stripe or nationality.... so the the smugness is rather misplaced isn't it?""

Richard Bridge posed the question "How bent do they have to be?".

I merely responded to the level of smug self satisfaction inherent in that question, pointing out that the weapon he is attempting to use is bloody sharp at both ends, and likely to be more damaging to Labour than Tory reputations.

Mr Bridge's insanely rabid denunciation of about 45% (varies, as usual, from week to week) of the country's voting population says much more about the workings of his mind than about those he disrespects, and I would suggest a therapeutic dose of vallium might be efficacious.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 07:52 AM

Now come on Don! Focus....!

What has he got insanity, or rabies....?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 08:35 AM

No Don - the revolving door is spinning faster than ever in this government, and not even the cronies can see much good news for the conservatives. 45% support right now? Do me a favour. More like 30% and falling fast. The stream of stories that discredit Camer-moron and Os-bung became a river and now it is a flood. Inflation is up, employment is down, the disabled are discriminated against, the NHS is being dismantled and universities are for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:18 AM

I am about to try to redirect intervening threads back here, for tidiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 01:23 PM

Richard, YOUR half term writing assignment is an essay.

If I were David Cameron for a day.......

Remember Mr Cameron has a busy schedule with children to make breakfast for, a wife to propitiate, and he lives in an 18th century rat infested slum, with his cat Larry. Try to inject some humour about the situation into your essay.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 01:56 PM

Still not listening, Richard. Why am I not surprised?

I'm probably wasting my breath - but making the Labour Party electable again has got to be the way forward ... Excuse me but why are you sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "la, la, la, la"?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:02 PM

"Labour Party electable again"

and for your next joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:34 PM

I must thank Max for responding so quickly to my request to re-open this thread, which is IMHO only beginning to deal with actual discussion of the issues, as opposed to somewhat frantic anti Tory rhetoric, full of thunder but void of substance.

Where Tory MPs are not getting the message that things must change, and that old right wing policies, and old fiddles (both left and right) won't be tolerated, I'm as determined as any of you to do my best to make it clear what the Tory voter wants them to do about it and my MP must be getting fed up of hearing from me.

By the same token, I am getting very fed up of being slagged off by people who have both the education and the intelligence to know a political system, to be accountable, must have alternatives to offer the voting population.

All one party states are, ipso facto, dictatorships, something I think we all know to be undesirable.

So, at least two parties, preferably three, and the fact that I decide to vote in a different direction than you does not make you Good and me Evil, or vice versa.

Nothing has done more damage to Socialist Labour than having voters who say "Labour is for the working man" or "Labour was good enough for my father, so it's......etc". Such a stagnant and unthinking mind set has rendered the genuine "Old Labour" unelectable, because it sets up a barrier against the middle classes' votes being cast in that direction.

So, we now have a Tory Party whose leader is at least trying to move to a more central and more caring position, assisted by a coalition partner which traditionally belongs in the centre, and we have an ersatz Tory Party, which made itself electable by betraying everything that Labour once was, and still should be, and having achieved control, simply frittered away the opportunity, the country's wealth and the respect of socialist voters.

I have said on numerous occasions that when I see a socialist party I will vote for it, but given the choices as outlined above, I believe that I have made the right decision.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

""Now come on Don! Focus....!

What has he got insanity, or rabies....?""


One doesn't need to be factually mad or infected with rabies to make comments which precisely fit the description I employed Al, but then you already know that.

Mark 4 out of 10 - Must find better arguments.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:44 PM

I think the starter of the thread should have the final say in the matter

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:16 PM

I posted the following on the Conservative local cuts thread. Reposting here now.

As part of my council job (lowly business support) I manage a load of volunteers who in effect are taking paid work away from qualified professionals. Also I should know just before Christmas if my post is going away as business support is being restructured into one service with service level agreements to the myriad services they support. Lots of redundancies and lots of downgrades.

The effect of the cuts will mean that managers, officers, social workers, etc. who actually deliver services to the public will be tasked with doing much more of the business support work (filing, answering phones, minute taking, arranging meetings and travel, ordering goods and services) for themselves because there will not be the support staff to do it. More time doing admin work equates less time delivering services.

Eventually every service will be expected to become self supporting financially too, which means commissioning (managing services and projects for other authorities) and / or becoming a traded company and selling service back to the council. We know what the grand plan in our council has been for a long time. Just one small very highly paid top level organisation, contracting with external businesses for all public service provision.

We have also seen how this model fails, especially for vulnerable people. Once the council removes itself from the direct service provision they can easily wriggle out of failings of private companies to deliver the provision. Care homes come to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM

Labour had a shot at it, do I really need to give the result ?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:51 PM

the Conservatives will do no better

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM

Don and Bluesman, you don't agree with Richard. He shows no sign of being rabid or insane, His words and arguments are lucid enough. Its simply that your viewpoint is different.

Both of you, your manner is abusive and intemperate.

Richard, your posts tell us nothing that was not in both the Telegraph and The Times - hardly left wing scandal sheets. You are only concocting these posts to pull Don's tail feathers, and it is very naughty of you.

With regards to the fall of Fox - it is hardly a matter for rejoicing. As Portillo said on the Politics show, Cameron has now got a very able Thatcherite of impeccable pedigree pissing into the tent.

Thatcherites believe that self enriching little pecadilloes, like the Werrity business is just showing initiative. By the time Thatcher herself left office her son had become the wealthiest arms dealer on the planet. I bet Mark wasn't dumb enough to get Vistaprint cards done, like some fifth rate salesman.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:43 PM

""One doesn't need to be factually mad or infected with rabies to make comments which precisely fit the description I employed Al, but then you already know that.

Don T.""

Which part of this essentially simple sentence is beyond your powers of comprehension Al?

An examination of Mr Bridge's name calling of Tory MPs, the Conservative (not his intemperate, malicious and offensive alternative appellation) Party, and those who, like myself, outvoted Labour supporters at the general election, would I think amply support my description of his more hysterical utterances.

As to my being abusive and aggressive, I vigorously dispute that.

I have made just one aggressive post that I can recall (and I'm not proud of having done so), in response to a direct and unwarranted personal attack by BTNG.

I have been at pains to explain the reasoning behind my stance, and this has been ignored by most posters on this thread, in favour of simply making unfounded accusations of delusion and lack of empathy.

If that is the level to which this discussion is descending, I wasted my time requesting that it be re-opened.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM

I would also like to emphasise, Al, that I share absolutely nothing with Gest Bluesman, whose prejudice is as foul as anything I've seen from RB.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:13 PM

Okay Don. I'm sorry. I fully accept that there was no suggestion in your post of RB being clinically insane or rabid, merely that he displayed some of the more common symptoms.

My first post was without foundation in fact, and I hereby offer an unreserved and wholehearted apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:08 AM

Look, it's very simple. The avowed intent of the Labour party (or at least until Tony B. Liar) was to advantage the less advantaged. That of the conservative party was to retain advantage for the already advantaged. That's the core principle.

That's also why we see all the examples of snouts in the trough by conservatives, and outright attacks on the less advantaged by conservatives, that I draw together here. I don't really need to do much more than to draw the examples together.

I also don't think we need to discuss the reasons for this thread having been closed or being reopened.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:16 AM

Even accountants (hardly the most radical people) tell Os-bung he is getting it wrong:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/20/accountancy-group-urges-osborne-to-ease-austerity

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:24 AM

NHS "reforms" under fire from pretty well everyone - spending £2.5 billion to save £2 billion and leave healthcare at the mercy of the market hardly looks like sense.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/19/nhs-reform-bill-completely-unintelligible

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:30 AM

Now this looks as if Foxgate is getting even more dangerous for the bent conservatives - well done the Jewish Chronicle for breaking it.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/19/link-liam-fox-donors-tory

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:53 AM

no idea at all.....exercising his democratic right, maybe?

as for what would get us out of this mess into another space/time continuum. Piece of piss, Captain Kirk used to do it every week.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:03 AM

"The avowed intent of the Labour party (or at least until Tony B. Liar) was to advantage the less advantaged. That of the conservative party was to retain advantage for the already advantaged."

True(ish). But I believe that Labour lost the last election because people were fed up with Blairism (control freakery, empty rhetoric and hypocrisy on stilts!) and the Tories failed to get a majority because a significant (but still not large enough) proportion of the electorate had woken up to their true nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:07 AM

"Has anyone any idea why Dickie is starting all these political threads ?"

I think it's called 'democracy' - not a concept you would understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:35 AM

Well, now, here's a suprise. All in this together, eh?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8838006/Councillors-award-themselves-25pc-pay-rise-despite-hundreds-of-job-cuts.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:55 AM

Not being in the UK, a lot of this talk needs a program to understand.

Is this table of the UK Parties 2010 General Election accurate? Would it allow non UKers to understand what the heck you're all talking about?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:05 AM

Dmocracy is a wonderful thing, you have the right to express your views openly, unfortunately it's a concept that some are unable to grasp.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM

""Look, it's very simple. The avowed intent of the Labour party (or at least until Tony B. Liar) was to advantage the less advantaged. That of the conservative party was to retain advantage for the already advantaged. That's the core principle.""

You and I have never heard in debate, or seen in print, the expression of a desire to further enrich the already rich, rather the opposite in fact.

That core principle is merely your ungenerous interpretation.

Has it never occurred to you that governments actually don't have the power to impoverish rich people to satisfy your envious desires. Wealth, of its nature, tends to create more wealth, largely resulting in an immunity to the ups and downs of economic climates.

If it were as easy as you claim to deal with taxing the rich, surely your preferred party had ample opportunity over thirteen years, and signally failed to do so, but I suspect that they had just enough common sense to realise that rich people and corporations paying some tax and creating employment for the party's core voters was slightly better than having them all bugger off abroad and pay nothing and create no jobs at all.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:01 PM

""Well, now, here's a suprise. All in this together, eh?""

Lousy timing indeed, and monumentally insensitive.

However, purely in the interests of truth (you've heard of that, I'm sure), it's worth mentioning that they have also voluntarily frozen their remuneration since 2003, and in their last review in 2006, decided to take no increase, and are now fllowing the recommendation of an independent review body.

I'm sure that, during those eight years of voluntary pay freeze, lower paid staff had no fewer than seven increases, and the cost of living rises just the same whether you are a councillor or a clerk.

It's always nice to have both sides of a story, don't you think?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:15 PM

""NHS "reforms" under fire from pretty well everyone - spending £2.5 billion to save £2 billion and leave healthcare at the mercy of the market hardly looks like sense.""

New Labour less than transparently sanctioned the purchase of private services by the NHS, at a 14% premium.

No comment from anyone.

Tories openly plan to do the same, but only on the understanding that those services are cheaper than in house.

Fury from all directions.

To save Richard the trouble, a news item on BBC Breakfast News today revealed that the NHS have been purchasing the services of private ambulance companies to move patients.

Of course the NHS has been doing that for the last three years.

As for comments about noses in the trough, I recall the New Labour MPs being rather more than well represented in that as well as in actual fraud.

For every dodgy Tory, there's a dodgy New Labourite, but I don't feel the need to concoct obscene names and descriptions when mentioning the fact.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:33 PM

""Not being in the UK, a lot of this talk needs a program to understand.""

Please don't take this the wrong way SRS, but this why we are now adding UK to our thread titles, so you don't have to bother with them, as we were asked to do.

Having said that, the table you refer to is vastly overcomplicated, but essentially close to the truth.

The Labour group 1972 and 1982 in the bottom left quadrant is Old Labour, and that in the upper right is New (Blairite) Labour.

Hope that helps a little, but you should definitely treat with extreme suspicion any claim that UK Tory (Conservative) is anything like your Republicans, or that Labour and Liberal Democrats are anything like your Democrats. Such comparisons are absolute nonsense, designed to attach Good Guy/Bad Guy labels, a tactic much beloved of certain anti Tory posters.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:54 PM

Well I think that chart is bullshit.

The roots of the Labour Party were in the educated working classes. The BNP appeals to the thickies and psychos of every political colour.