fRoots magazine and folk clubs

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 07:31 AM

I would think that the majority of the better, younger British folk singers and bands - and there are plenty of them - I heard their names for the first time in fRoots. It has been Ian's passion in recent years to promote the younger generation, though he does not do this slavishly. He worries publicly about young performers who he feels are taking the music in a wrong direction and he gives his reasons for doing so - and that is not an easy editorial position to adopt when the majority of your income comes from advertisers.

I don't always agree with his enthusiasms or his dislikes, by any means, but I have never doubted his commitment and integrity and certainly not his hard work in producing over three decades a magazine of a consistently high standard.

Of course, his editorial policy is not going to please everyone and there are performers, particularly singer/songwriters who feel that they are not getting their fair crack of the whip in coverage, but the reasons for this are clearly stated in his published editorial policy. This does not detract from the considerable achievement by Ian and his small team. I am very pleased that they have been given this major award and would like to congratulate all concerned.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 09:38 AM

really,Well we all have different ideas about who we think are good.
I consider Damien Barber Mike Wilson ElizaCarthy, The Young uns to be among the better younger performers, none of whom I heard of for the first time in Froots, in fact I encountered them in folk clubs and at folk festivals.
I too CONGRATULATE Ian Anderson,I am sure he works very hard, and is passionate about the music.
this statement however is hype; "who promotes great new artists long before they have been discovered by the mainstream media."
please, who are these artists that have been taken up by the mainstream media?
sadly,very few roots artists get taken up by the mainstream media, they[the mainstream media seem to prefer DanielODonnell , westlife, and boy groups.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Folknacious
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 10:19 AM

If you were to take a look at even the list of cover features down the years, let alone the full features index I would be very surprised if you didn't find a lot of names of artists from all over the world who got their first UK coverage in Froots - from the likes of Kathryn Tickell as a teenager right back in the 1980s to Amadou & Mariam a decade back to Devon Sproule a few years ago to Ian King and Nancy Wallace last year to - oh, go and read it yourself! Seems that it never featured Dick Miles though, but it did review 5 of his records, I see from the reviews index. I wonder what they can have said?

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 10:49 AM

Dick Miles wrote:-
I consider Damien Barber Mike Wilson ElizaCarthy, The Young uns to be among the better younger performers

Yes, Dick, but the likes of Damien, Mike and Eliza have been around for a long time. I first booked Eliza with Nancy when she was 18 and that is a year short of half her lifetime ago; Damien, I believe, is older than Eliza. By the better, younger British folk singers and bands I meant the plethora of teens and twenties new on the folk scene in the last two or three years and struggling to make a name for themselves and who, as a club organiser, I should know about. I know that fRoots offices are inundated with new albums and demos which do get a hearing and the ones that stand out get a mention in the magazine. Often, I follow these up; sometimes I am disappointed; sometimes I am delighted, but I am being made aware of a great many names and that is a very useful service.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 10:55 AM

folknacious they were good reviews,
You are missing my point, which is that sadly hardly any roots performers that get higlighted in Froots get into the mainstream media.
please name me the piles of roots performers who get in to the top ten?
in the case of of Kathryn Tickell some of us had heard of her before she was mentioned in froots, please dont tell me that an occasional appearance on Womans hour[YES iagree it is MAINSTREAM MEDIA] really constitutes, a HIGHLEVEL presence in the mainstreram media .
However in Ireland there is more presnce for traditional /roots coverage on television and national radio ,and I do not think it is because froots have covered those people in their magazine.
it is because the irish media realise the it is part of their heritage and promote ITM, on television on radio rte 1[ceili house] and other programmesraidio na gaeltachta and to a lesser extent Roots music[reels to ragas lyric fm]

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 10:57 AM

ok, vic, fair enough points.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 11:04 AM

Vic makes a good point about relative perceptions of youth. When I go to Bodmin Folk Club, I am usually the youngest person in the room (I'm 48), but when I was in the Rif Mountain Refuge at Leigh Festival a few weeks ago, I was almost certainly the oldest. When the likes of Vic Legg and Lar Cann actually started the Bodmin Club, they were younger than either!
Most of my friends on the folk scene are either 10 + years older than me or 10 + years younger. I started regularly attending folk clubs 25 or more years ago as a result of reading the first news stand issue of Folk Roots (as it then was). The magazine was essential to me then, and still is now.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 12:14 PM

if I can play devils advocate for a minute:
supposing Froots were to be successful in introducing roots music to the mainstream media, would the music benefit, or would the musical content have to be diluted to make it acceptable to tinpan alley?
I am sure Ian would like to see the music undiluted, but is it better to introduce a commercialised form of roots music or to keep the music pure, does quality suffer as a result of commercial pressure.
I am sure we would all like to see the music become a little more popular, but the dichotomy is that roots music can[possibly] become something else and loose its roots if it becomes[commercial] and part of the tin pan alley// top ten/ popular music world

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Folknacious
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 12:53 PM

I know from past experiences that there's little point in arguing with you, Mr Miles, or expecting you to read what's not in your imagination, but the award citation thing, as quoted by Vic Smith, apparently says Froots "promotes great new artists long before they have been discovered by the mainstream media." Nothing in there about commerciality, high level presences, the top ten, the Irish media, and whatever "tin pan alley" is (you've lost me there, and I'm too lazy to google). Just that Froots has written about many artists first, before others outside the specialist press. Do you really dispute that? Did you bother to look at those indexes I linked earlier?

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 12:58 PM

I stopped buying fRoots roughly 10 years ago, when Ian A told someone on the fRoots letter's page to 'fuck off and start their own magazine if they don't like his' or words to that effect. Funnily enough, he'd said the exact same thing the issue before hand and I'd agreed with him - in that case the recipient of his anger seemed really as though he needed to be told to fuck off - but the second time... well, my memory tells me that it was a harmless enough letter which got an extremely rude reply. And that was the moment I finally had enough of his annoyingly egotistical 'more-important-knowledgeable-and-special-than-thou' behaviour.

So, I stopped buying it every issue. I've bought it since then maybe once a year. I don't even really go for the double CD issues as they went through a phase with seemingly a lot of Parisian produced African music, which for me 9 times out of 10 means exceedingly glossy and over produced African music. I don't like any of my music exceedingly over produced and glossy, so I stopped buying those. I have first heard some great things from previous CDs though - I especially remember the recording of Bob Copper singing Rags & Old Iron.

However, Ian A seems, from a distance, to have a slightly milder editorial & personal slant now and I'm slowly warming to the magazine again. Certainly, I sincerely hope it doesn't close. Colin Irwin and Andrew Cronshaw especially I consider very knowledgeable, interesting and reliable writers. In my eyes Ian A does deserve this award, as I consider fRoots to have been an important publication - However I'm extremely glad he wasn't awarded it ten or even five years ago as I have the feeling his already mightily swollen head would have exploded.

Good luck Ian, I hope fRoots continues for a good long while yet. Oh - and in reference to the discussion on your message board re Mumford & Sons - go ahead, do an issue with all the blighters in one fell swoop - someone mentioned Nick Cave - ask them interesting questions and it'll be an interesting piece.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 01:04 PM

So who are these artists that have been discovered by the mainstream media?, yes, I do dispute it, because ROOTS MUSIC is not featured extensively in the mainstream media in England.
In Ireland it has a higher profile in the mainstream media [but Froots is not responsible]
Folknacious your problem is that despite your perceived interest in roots music, you have the blinkered views of a little Englander, all the time you talk from an english perspective[ what happens in England].
dont you think that the mainstream media might possibly be different in Ireland or other countries, there is life beyond Walthamstow you know, even if there is not much life in it.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 01:14 PM

I stopped buying fRoots roughly 10 years ago, when Ian A told someone on the fRoots letter's page to 'fuck off and start their own magazine if they don't like his' or words to that effect. Funnily enough, he'd said the exact same thing the issue before hand and I'd agreed with him - in that case the recipient of his anger seemed really as though he needed to be told to fuck off - but the second time... well, my memory tells me that it was a harmless enough letter which got an extremely rude reply. And that was the moment I finally had enough of his annoyingly egotistical 'more-important-knowledgeable-and-special-than-thou' behaviour.

So, I stopped buying it every issue. I've bought it since then maybe once a year. I don't even really go for the double CD issues as they went through a phase with seemingly a lot of Parisian produced African music, which for me 9 times out of 10 means exceedingly glossy and over produced African music. I don't like any of my music exceedingly over produced and glossy, so I stopped buying those. I have first heard some great things from previous CDs though - I especially remember the recording of Bob Copper singing Rags & Old Iron.

However, Ian A seems, from a distance, to have a slightly milder editorial & personal slant now and I'm slowly warming to the magazine again. Certainly, I sincerely hope it doesn't close. Colin Irwin and Andrew Cronshaw especially I consider very knowledgeable, interesting and reliable writers. In my eyes Ian A does deserve this award, as I consider fRoots to have been an important publication - However I'm extremely glad he wasn't awarded it ten or even five years ago as I have the feeling his already mightily swollen head would have exploded.

Good luck Ian, I hope fRoots continues for a good long while yet. Oh - and in reference to the discussion on your message board re Mumford & Sons - go ahead, do an issue with all the blighters in one fell swoop - someone mentioned Nick Cave - ask them interesting questions and it'll be an interesting piece.

(apologies for the double posting, my cookies were re-set)

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 01:26 PM

" And as all those who read fRoots will know, he is an enthusiast, a maverick and a guide, who promotes great new artists long before they have been discovered by the mainstream media."
I offered my congrtulations To IAN., he works hard and is very committed
I am disputing that Roots music gets played extensively or has even been discoverd by the mainstream media in England, or that Froots has had any major impact on the mainstream media outside of England.
In England there is one national folk radio programme once a week, that is hardly extensive media roots music coverage.
as far asI know Froots has had no major impact on the usa mainstream media or the irish mainstream media.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 02:20 PM

[quote]
In England there is one national folk radio programme once a week, that is hardly extensive media roots music coverage.
[/quote]
Three progrmmes five times a week surely.
Late Junction - Tuesday - Thursday
World on 3 - Friday
World Routes - Saturday

Even if you discount LJ as mixed programming that still gives 2 hours 45 minutes across two shows.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 02:22 PM

Dick, reading through these recent posts - in spite of your protestations and congratulations - I detect just a touch of the curmudgeon in your comments.

Why can't we - for once - just accept that Ian has done a wonderful job with the fRoots magazine. He's ploughed his own furrow, through thick and thin, and brought his own perspective to the world of folk music and to world music. Awards are fickle things - they resound for a year and are then forgotten in the heat and excitement of the next year's award. But for one short year, Ian can celebrate decades of hard work, dedication, persistence, etc. with a simple piece of publicity. And, if the award and its publicity helps fRoots to sell a few more copies, make a bit more of an impact in the music world, reach the consciousness of a few more ignorant people - then let it flourish!

Who the devil cares whether WOMEX is a key player in the music game? Who the devil cares whether it's media hype or faux publicity or what? Who cares whether it's part of a music publicity machine? Forget the rhetoric. Stop the nitpicking. Let's, for once, just be happy that a hard-working guy and his team in the folk/world music business has been recognised and celebrated.

Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 02:50 PM

He's ploughed his own furrow, through thick and thin, and brought his own perspective to the world of folk music and to world music. Awards are fickle things - they resound for a year and are then forgotten in the heat and excitement of the next year's award. But for one short year, Ian can celebrate decades of hard work, dedication, persistence, etc. with a simple piece of publicity. And, if the award and its publicity helps fRoots to sell a few more copies, make a bit more of an impact in the music world, reach the consciousness of a few more ignorant people - then let it flourish!
I have no problem with that.
I dont know wha tyou think you are detecting, but I detect from folknacious an attempt to stir up shit and personalise the issue, so I am making crystal clear that my objection is to Robin Denselows journalism.
PeterC,2 hours 45 minutes is not extensive mainstream roots coverage, ITS SWEET FA.
I think Ian would agree with this too, that the problem with extensive media coverage is that it does not guarantee quality.
in Ireland we have television programmes of traditional music, but the programme makers spend so much time getting the photographers to get a "right" photo, that the musicians have to go over and over the tunes ,the result is the musicians sound bored, any spontaneous life in the music is often is killed and the music suffers.






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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 07:16 AM

Will Fly wrote Why can't we - for once - just accept that Ian has done a wonderful job with the fRoots magazine . . . if the award and its publicity helps fRoots to sell a few more copies, make a bit more of an impact in the music world, reach the consciousness of a few more ignorant people - then let it flourish!

It sounds like a bit less knocking and a bit more support would be helpful right now too, if you read this appeal .