BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...

Subject: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: granny
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 09:18 AM

After posting briefly to another thread this a.m., about how I haven't played much of anything I loved for a long while, I started thinking about WHY I haven't, and drifted into other thoughts...

So, I'll talk a bit, here, and maybe you can identify with some of my experiences.

Did you ever have someone, another musician (particularly if/when you were amateur) -- tell you not to play/sing, because he/she was going to? -- Kind of with the little hint that, if you did, it would not be appreciated?

In my younger years (I'm 41, now), I had so much fun in a little band I was in. I sang and played the guitar. We were religious and performed at Christian coffee houses. But, at a church I attended, I think before all this, there was a camp-out one time, and I actually got a phone call from the sister of this really jealous girl (the pastor's daughter, though, I don't hate them, since I am one) who said, 'You don't have to bring your guitar, because ### will bring hers.' To me, this was like going to the dinner table with a bunch of friends and having someone lean over and say, 'You don't have to eat, because I'm going to, okay?'

I found that it didn't end there. What hurt the most was to have something -- music -- that is an ESCAPE from strife, to be used against me like a weapon. It really felt like a knife.

I'm not great, nothing to bother with jealousy about. I appreciate skill, whether it's mine or yours. What drives me crazy is people confusing the Arts with the Military.

Of course, a lot of this was just a part of youth and it's ways, right? But, even in my adult life, I've run into a few situations.

I was once invited -- or, I went because my husband was invited, with the implication that I was welcome, too, to a little party of bluegrass lovers. Not my main interest, but, I'd kinda liked it. They were rude to me the whole time, deliberately ignoring my request for the lyrics to the songs, etc.. Gradually, I came to realize that this particular bunch of people were misusing the music. Again -- that odd mix of martial and musical arts. Arts with Farts.

Anyway, ramble, ramble. I am still having my morning coffee, so, I'm not really all awake, and that's my excuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Noreen
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:09 AM

Interesting... I think that just shows that they are not the people that you would want to share your time with anyway. There are many other people who get great pleasure from sharing their music rather that using it as a power trip- in my experience anyway.

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:14 AM

"Don't let the b*st*rds get you down, don't get hassled to a frazzle. 'Cause they're all full of beans. . ."
- From a song by Willie Murphy, a Minnesota singer of songs.

I had a guy try to do that to me when I first expressed a desire to sing with a band (back when the Beatles were brand new). He probably didn't realize that his few casual, but cruel, words would be the spur that got me started on what turned into a lifelong journey. His opinion had as much value than as it does 40 years later. . .

I don't understand why people try to dominate others like that. And I don't understand why other people let 'em. I have never met anyone who truly believed in their own talent try to pull that stuff.

Have another cup and play a little. Let the rest of it go.

Have a wonderful day.
Bart

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:31 AM

I usually just smile, and say, OK, then, I'll do the next couple. (and play something really weird key wise or rhythm wise that nobody can figure out. Then I smirk)

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: GUEST,Bun
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:41 AM

Used to go to a regular music session with my instrument, my so-called mate used to take the instument off me and dominate the session - it made me feel bad as I was just learning, but worse than that I got very little chance to play. For a big tough cookie - I was hurt.
Bun

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:49 AM

Tell the blighter to take his own damn instrument!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: GUEST,Bun
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:56 AM

He used to play banjo, (maybe still does) I would take my guitar. He spent most of the session playing my guitar. I must admit to retuning his banjo on several occasions, and once dropped a handful of peanuts inside it.
stopped playing music for a long long time.....just getting back to it now
Bun

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: John Routledge
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 11:11 AM

Many people including so called music lovers do not realise that you cannot boost yourself up by knocking another down. Geordie (Good music to you all)Broon.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 11:23 AM

Long ago, I was in a jam or two with a guy that liked to borrow your capo, saying he'd forgotten his, then play in a wild key that no normal person can play in without a capo.

I started bringing a spare, and he couldn't figure a way around that.

What really causes me to fly into totally irrational hysteria, just because an old playing partner used to do it all the time, is the person who comes with no spare strings, breaks one, and expects you to break up a fresh spare set that you have with you so he can continue to play. Why is it so goddam difficult to keep a spare set in your accessory case?

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Clifton53
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 11:26 AM

Most 'catters that I've met would not dream of doing that, to anyone. And I think Bart nailed it good, anyone who is secure in their ability would be looking to help, not hinder.

Clifton53

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 11:47 AM

The world is full of that kind of doofus. Get around and find people with whom you can feel comfortable. Now, I must admit that there have been song circles with a few people who just dont get it. They sing off key in no known timing and dont know more than three chords. Then, if I want to do something that stretches my range and forces me to go to an uptown key, they think I'm being a snob. One of my favorite true stories happened in Scotland. I was doing a tour of folk clubs and pubs. At one pub, a man kept asking for Country songs, so, I tried to accomodate him by singing an old Hank Snow song. He loved it, so, I told him that was what I used to do before I went to folk music. He said "Why did you shift?" and before I could answer, a wise guy said "He learned two more chords!" Anyway, when you find yourself in such a situation, either you, or the others are in the wrong place.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Bert
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 12:08 PM

You don't NEED more thaty three chords.;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: granny
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 12:20 PM

Three chords or four, the point is, I'd rather not fight while I'm singing!

It's good to see others who've dealt with stuff like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 01:26 PM

Bert, do me a favor? dont sing Danny Boy, or Lorena...LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 03:22 PM

There is another facet to this question, though. I finally came around to the other person's view when it happened to me.

There is a local woman guitarist who plays mainly Irish- since my background is folk and old timey country, we have a very different approach to backup. She inserts far more chords than I do and uses a much lighter strum. She made it clear when we happened to play together that I wasn't helping her in the effect she was trying to achieve.

At first I was miffed but after awhile I realized that she was right, that there is no way to blend the two styles. So now in a jam when she's playing guitar I lay down my instrument or pick up a mandolin. However, when I'm the primary guitar player in a dance band or when the lead asks me to back him/her up, I play my style. It has worked out very well.

And I'm no longer miffed.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 03:23 PM

I used to sing in a trio with two other women. One of them was a songwriter and actually had a song cut by a friend of hers, so she thought she was all that. The trio was her idea, true enough, but she only wanted to do HER songs, and she treated me and the other singer like we were little children. The other singer, Linda, was far and away the best and most experienced performer of the three of us, even if she didn't have a musical "education." She was fabulous and the "leader" of our little group treated her very badly.

I did have a college-level musical education and she poo-pooed that as well. I realize a formal education is not always a necessary thing, but it has been valuable to me, and it made me angry that she did not appreciate my knowledge, when it could have helped her.

People who act like this have small penises, so to speak.

I don't know where she is now. I haven't sung with her in years. But since Mister and I produced our own recording, which has five of MY SONGS on it, I feel much vindicated. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:43 AM

Sigh....you gotta play with like minded people. I grew weary of sessions that showcased the dozen hot recorded players, and gave no one else a chance. So, our sessions are pretty strict in the circle rule...EVERYONE gets turn that way. The few that don't like it, are disinvited. And ya know what? We have people trying to solicit invites! Get your own session going. Post the 10 commandments of jamming, have plenty of food and drink and be ready to play till dawn ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Bert
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 01:13 AM

Yer right Kendall me ol' matey, Those are way beyond me. tee hee.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Bert
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 01:14 AM

'corse, now I gotta try to p[lay Danny Boy with three chords.

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 01:37 AM

Ebbie, that sounds like a different thing... the search for cooperation, not exclusion.

Women sure can get weird with each other. That's what I think was going on in the first story shared, the church story. We have our own so-hurtful ways of competing and one-upping, all done SO nicey nicey... rather just bash it out like the men do sometimes. That nicey nicey thing disguising a knife is sickening.

Our jam group had the opposite problem for a long, LONG time. No one would take the lead in ANYTHING, from song choice to doing the singing to sheetmusic maintenance to taking a solo or lead part... Hardi and I ended up in charge of everything by default. They could not even be counted on to claim the beat-- I got VERY TIRED of thumping every last damn song on the autoharp so they could follow it!!!! (If I stopped playing, they would all stop!)

We had a meeting over the summer and covered a lot of stuff, this included, gently but firmly. After we had started to notice that they had gotten really very good at playing together. We did a few gigs in the community on material everyone knew cold, and they started to believe us when we said they could really DO this stuff.

Suddenly people started actually bringing new songs to share, as we had been asking, and SINGING them to teach them to the group. (Out loud!!!) Finally the individuals got a bit of confidence and began to take hold. Each month they would be a little bolder.

Last Friday was jam night, and there was this lovely moment when Hardi and I simultaneously realized that they had all forgotten we were even there (at our own house!) and were madly relating to one another, jamming away. We curled up on the couch like kids together and just watched and listened. They cauight us doing this after awhile and just grinned their heads off.

I used to worry, and so did Hardiman, that we were being too dominant. What we learned was that someone has to take charge sometimes, and part of being in charge is helping others learn how to be. Now we have the friends to play with that we longed for from the start-- people who play for fun, who relax and just go for it, and who will put their own ideas forward. This all came on its own with no struggles over control. Of course we are all pretty healthy-minded people in our group.

Anyway, I think one lesson is, don't hang back. If someone seems too dominant, maybe there is also a bit of a leadership vacuum. Maybe you need to be a bit bolder, and if you try that in small doses, you can participate more as a peer.

Now Bert is another question. He can play those things with me anytime. After all, I have the electric autoharp with the big, really loud amp! (Hi Bert!)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wdyat12
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 02:14 AM

WYSIWYG,

Do you play "Don't Be Cruel?"

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 02:23 AM

Not yet, should I?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:18 AM

Bert, you are a bright guy, I maintain that if you can learn 3 chords, you can learn 15 more!

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wdyat12
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 09:38 AM

WYSIWYG,

Just kidding.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:17 AM

wdyat12 may I ask who you are? Do I know you?

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wdyat12
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 01:07 PM

kendall,

We've never met, but you may have seen me perform at the Chocolate Church many moons ago in "Dark of the Moon."

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 03:02 PM

Dark Chocolate Moon?

scuse me.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wdyat12
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 10:40 PM

WYSIWYG,

Another moon metaphor. Please expand.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:16 PM

Don't be inviting her to expand, now, wdyat. The chocolate temptation and all that.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:40 PM

Baaaaaaaaaddddddddd boyzzzzzzzzz.

Go see my song over in the Love Over 50 thread, just posted.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: wdyat12
Date: 25 Feb 01 - 09:24 AM

WYSIWYG,

I am a mechanic and mechanics try not to cross threads, but I crossed over to the Love Over Fifty thread to read your song. Love is great at any age, but how does rejection feel?

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 26 Feb 01 - 03:56 AM

In the literary, rather than the musical, field:
Many years ago, a friend of mine left school and went to work for the Department of Health and Social Security (as it then was), a government organisation dedicated to ensuring that destitute people don't get their grubby paws on the hard-earned cash the rest of us are forced to pay in taxes. After a few months, he announced he was going to write a book based on the extremes of poverty and deprivation he'd witnessed in his work. He described the plot in some detail. I said, "that's a really good story; in fact, I've already read it! It's 'Love on the Dole', and it was written by Walter Greenwood in the 'thirties -- I'll lend you my copy.'

I did; he read it, and we heard no more nonsense about writing books after that.

Steve

P.S. In case you think I'm a Big Blue Meanie, let me tell you that he channelled his energies in a different direction, and is now a Force To Be Reckoned With in the local government trades union, Unison, so it was all for the best in the end.

P.P.S. He's also stopped playing the guitar, but that was nothing to do with me!

Subject: RE: BS: Ever Happen To You? Jealousy Monsters...
From: Deni
Date: 03 Mar 01 - 02:29 AM

Don't worry too much. Just think, when the odd few start to resent you, you must be sounding good!

Good luck