BS: Whats the point of Andorra

Subject: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:33 PM

Just looking at the leichtenstein thread, can anyone tell me what the point of Andorra, San Marino, Monaco etc, they are no more than towns and really irritating when you have to drive through them, i was turned away from Andorra because i had a new generator on board, i would have to pay import duty, then 30 second later when i had driven through the "Country" i would have to pay export duty. what a kerfuffle

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:37 PM

I think the point of Andorra is Coma Pedrosa. It's the highest point, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: bobad
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

Stamps.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:01 PM

Customs duties in Andorra

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:09 PM

Sovereignty. That's what it's about . The God given right of every human being to self-determination. But what's that to the like you? You're a fascist swine.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:16 PM

Why did you choose to go through Andorra, there are other roads?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:33 PM

Andorra exists solely to annoy you. Same thing with, oh, England or Mongolia.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:33 PM

But not Canada. We don't annoy anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:34 PM

Well, I do, but as a rule the country doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:38 PM

Having looked at the map, there seem to be sevral, one a approx 3 o'clock, one at 9 o'clock, one at 11 o'clock & one at 6 o'clock, but that last one may be a drain, or it's method of breeding.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:51 PM

Hi everyone
yeh i know i could go other routes, but hey, ive never been to Andorra and i thought i would go and have a look, i might never get another chance, i would have most definately spent some money there, which would have helped the local economy.
And hey M Ted, i am not a fascist swine at all, just someone who wonders how these things occur. and why is it still relevant when the E.U is open to everyone with a european passport.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:57 PM

What's the point of Andorra?
Some people (and places) march to the beat of a different drum - and that's a good thing.
Click.
Thank you, Malvina Reynolds.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:59 PM

The EU is open to people with any passport!! People with non-EU passports may be treated differently.

In practise of course there are no borders between countries in the EU - I drove from the UK to Hungary via France Belgium, Holland, Germany and Austria and stopped at a border for the first time at Hungary (before they became members of the EEC).

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:00 PM

Hey Bill D
I fooled em, i had 1.6 Kilos of powdered milk on board, but dont tell anyone...

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM

hi folkie dave
come to think of it your right, no one is worse than British customs, lost count of the times those buggers have had my van apart, they never find anything, but they still persist. seems you can drive across any border without interference exept the French or Spanish /British border.
But i did say a european passport, you should see the trouble we have trying to get into America. so it is a 2 sided street.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:05 PM

Hi, Folkiedave - I thought it was supposed to be easy to go from one EU country to another, but I found out that's not always true. In the summer of 2005, I was on a tour bus going from Poland to the Czech Republic. We sat at the border for an hour. Maybe it was complicated by the fact that we had a few non-Americans - or maybe they were paying us back for trouble they had in entering the US.
I used to do the security clearances for U.S. immigration inspectors, so I got a number of chances to watch them work. Many U.S. ports of entry are dismal places, a very unfriendly environment for "welcoming" visitors. That's a shame. At many places, the immigration employee morale is very poor because of poor working conditions, and that makes things even more inefficient and unpleasant for visitors to the U.S.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:51 PM

Andorra seems to me about the right size for a country. And a pretty good country at that.

This came up on YouTube when I entered Andorra folk music Jo vinc d'un silenci - I wouldn't call it folk music, and I'm not at all sure it's an Andorran singer, though since the language looks like Catalan, he likely is. Pretty good anyway. Anyone up to translating Catalan? The words are there on the page.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:50 PM

And we all knew that Catalan is a UN language didn't we? The Catalonians in Barcelona are glad of that.
I knew a lass from there who earned a BSc in Barcelona, PHd in UK (in English) spoke good French and passable German - but claimed not to be able to speak Spanish.
Which told me how important Catalan was. So Andorra is important to a lot of Catalonians. A point for them at least.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:58 PM

Didn't Pete Seeger once record a song about Andorra.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:33 PM

Beautiful place. Reminds me of the Pacific Northwest (geographically). I don't think we have too many Catalan speakers there.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Little Robyn
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:04 PM

GUEST 12:58pm if you click on Joe Offer's blue clicky, you'll find it.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:11 PM

Andorra was Samantha Stevens mother.

Subject: Lyr Add: I come from a silence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

I found a translation of that song I linked to on You Tube (here is the link once more - Jo vinc d'un silenci ). And here is a link to it and to other songs by the man who wrote it - Raimon.

It turns out it's not just in Catalan, it's about Catalan, as an expression of national resistance to oppression, and a symbol of it.

And here is Angela Buxton's English version - powerful stuff:

    I come from a silence
    that's old and very long,
    of people who keep standing up
    from the bottom of the centuries,
    of people they call
    the subordinate classes;
    I come from a silence
    that's old and very long.

    I come from the squares
    and the streets full
    of children playing
    and old people waiting,
    while men and women
    are working
    in the little workshops,
    at home or in the fields.

    I come from a silence
    that is not resigned,
    of where the garden starts
    and the dry land ends;
    of effort and blasphemy
    because all goes wrong;
    who loses his origins
    loses identity.

    I come from a silence
    that's old and very long,
    of people with no mystics
    or captains,
    who live and die
    in anonymity,
    who have never believed
    in solemn phrases.

    I come from a struggle
    that is deaf and constant,
    I come from a silence
    that will be broken by people
    who now want to be free
    and love life,
    who demand the things
    they have been denied.

    I come from a silence
    that's old and very long,
    I come from a silence
    that is not resigned,
    I come from a silence
    that the people will break,
    I come from a silence
    that is deaf and constant.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:19 PM

That was Endora.

What a strange route this thread is taking. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:56 PM

I've just spent an hour translating the song, and I come back to my computer and find it's been done. Ah well.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:57 PM

Hi Joe,

I have entered the USA twice. Once at Atlanta where there were two customs/immigration officers for about ten jumbo jets full of passengers. Fortunately we had a long stopover time.

This Xmas I entered via Washington D.C.(Dulles) Loads of staff and through reasonably quickly. I was fingerprinted and photographed by the Department of Homeland Security. I had a couple of speeches to make to different audiences and each time I said I would like to thank everyone we had met for the terrific hospitality we had received whilst in America(true!!). Then I said I'd like to start with the Department of Homeland Security and each time I got a huge laugh (I'm pleased to say!)

I suppose what annoyed me was that when we left via Dulles - it must have been the most chaotic airport I have ever seen. I use Malaga frequently and I shall never criticise the authorities there ever again. There were dozens, nay hundreds, of un-attended bags lying around and no-one seemed bothered at all.

I suspect the Czechs/Poles are still suffering the effects of the Cold War. Certainly having entered Hungary a couple of times it was noticeable that we had changed from the "New" Europe to the "Old" one. This was before they came part of the EU.

Finally I can understand the reason for Andorra - but I cannot imagine why people want to visit it except to smoke and drink and fill up with fuel.

The road from Pas de La Casa to La Seu d'Urgell (France to Spain)is simply supermarkets and petrol stations. And little else. Each patch of ground is used for growing tobacco (including the centre of roundabouts) and the large American firms have huge factories for making cigarettes.

Interestingly, there are large signs in the supermarkets saying "We do not use Andorran tobacco". They sell the tobacco to the firms who then burn it because it is crap!! It is what the locals call black tobacco - think old fashioned Gauloises or Ducados in Spain. And then they import tobacco from elsewhere.

Crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 03:21 PM

Never mind, Topsie - your translation might be more singable than that one.   And if you've got the Catalan, there are other interesting ones down that second link, such as the one to Che Guevara.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 03:25 PM

I wonder if Andorra's defense budget is still only enough for the annual independence day fireworks?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 03:50 PM

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, Andorra has no import tariffs except on agricultural products, having a special relationship with the EU and using the Euro as its currency. That would seem to conflict with StevieD's post about them wanting to charge import duty on a generator.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:57 PM

I don't know about import taxes but when I was the tills in the supermarkets and petrol stations were geared to take any currency you care to name. Though it was mainly pesetas and francs obviously.

Though with the Euro on either side it makes sense to accept that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:43 PM

You can't use pesetas or francs in Spain or France these days, so I doubt if you can in Andorra.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:04 PM

Since both Spain and France use the Euro, it is now legal tender in Andorra too. When Spain used pesetas and France the franc, they were both legal tender in Andorra. It's an interesting principality. Tradition holds that it dates back to Charlemagne.R ead the Wikipedia article for all the details.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Les from Hull
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:35 PM

It's just another bloody 'tax haven'.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

"seems you can drive across any border without interference exept the French or Spanish /British border."

Have you ever tried to get across the Bulgarian/Turkish border?

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 02:19 PM

Turkey ain't in the EU, as yet, if ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM

Hi Jeffp
I think it was because it was a new diesel generator, its classed as agricultural machinery.
i would expect problems at the Bulgarian/Turkish border, as Turkey arent in the E.U, but your supposed to be able to go from E.U country to country without hindrance, if your an E.U passport holder, seems the Brits dont understand this.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: autolycus
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:10 PM

What the Americans do, and the rest of us should be doing, is treating tax havens like Andorra as domestic territories for tax purposes.

   a few years ago, a report showed that 37 British Conservative Members of Parliament were advisers,consultants or partners in companies which gave active advice on tax avoidance via offshore tax havens.

   Which means the rest of the population is being deprived of services and the less-than-tremendously-well-off shoulder the consequent burdens.


   That's what Andorra is for, to impoverish the rest of us.

   It's also good for skiing.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:22 PM

Andorra is not a full member of the EU. It has a "special relationship."

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:23 PM

You would think that the European Union would be strong enough to deal with tax havens and flags of convenience.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Market Watcher
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:31 PM

Les from Hull--With no disrespect intended for the EU, keep in mind that, it's primary purpose being economic/financial, it is run by and for those with a keen interest in and need for tax shelters.

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: GUEST,Purple Sandpiper
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:41 PM

• The national anthem of Andorra. Particularly the (traditional?) version with pipes that is played at the end of transmissions from Radio Andorra. Nearest version I can find is here Andorra National Anthem
  
  
• Also, Radio Geronimo
  
  
• Rabbits? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 11:16 AM

Where is this Spanish/British border? Have I been wasting my time driving down via France? Damn this cheap sat-nav!

Subject: RE: BS: Whats the point of Andorra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:12 PM

Gibraltar is what is being referred to, Rusty Dobro.