BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 04:25 PM

Today Public Health (England) issued new guidance that in the event of a shortage of gowns it would be acceptable for staff treating coronavirus patients to wear waterproof aprons instead. The WHO (plus previous guidance and a little thought) assert that a suitable medical gown is needed to remain safe.

Clearly this not only puts the staff at risk, but also anyone they might come in contact with. So the advice from the unions others is that staff should refuse to work without proper PPE such as gowns.

We all hope, I am sure, that enough gowns are found, but even Matt Hancock this morning was not able to be confident the supply of gowns would not run out over the weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 04:26 PM

Walky - I was waiting for first tentative hints of a compulsory land army scheme
for the newly furloughed and permanently unemployed...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 04:34 PM

well in 2011 retired people were picking apples in herfordshire,if any of you bother to listen to the link i provided,
also one young guy from sunderland was delighted to be doing it saying there was nowhere in his area where he could earn money like that ,but most young people did not know about it

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 04:39 PM

Over here
We are being told that the Johnson administration was conned out of 20 million dollars worth of masks they were trying to buy from China.
Boris should have tried Ebay.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Mossback
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 07:06 PM

Who will free us from this Walkabout drivel??

Hi, I don't think you have read the mod guidelines at the top of the thread. No direct attacks, please. If you don't want to read a post, scroll on by. Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 08:23 PM

Hmmm. Tough one, that, Bill. He was born on the day England won the World Cup in 1966. On that day I was a Saturday lad, aged 15, at Victor Value supermarket in Radcliffe, Lancashire. The store manager, a bit of an arse to be honest, hired a black and white telly that afternoon from Radio Rentals, and allowed us to watch the match, on and off. I still had to mop the bloody floors after the game. It made me the man I am today. Anyone here remember Victor Value? Pink stamps...?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Modernrated thread
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 10:22 PM

This must be the Next ditch attempt. Steve's anecdotes of his good ol days is as ****** as a Leave it to Beaver episode. What's next, UK Politics The Next Generation? Perhaps morality plays could fill this void if the good ol days ever runs dry.

ps ****** = boring   

o
)8( wheres your spirit, get out of the ditch and speak your mind
II

Not sure what to make of this one! Direct attack or incomprehensible... I'm leaving it here but it seems a bit flame-bait-ish to me. Could following posters ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 11:56 PM

Aren't there already enough BS threads for Americans to dominate...???

If the yanks must come over here,
the least they could do is hand us out some chewing gum, chocolate, and nylon stockings..

Just don't get us pregnant then bugger off back to the States as soon as the crisis ends...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 02:31 AM

"I cannot recall one traveller on that site "
I'm talking from having been told that by Travellers
I don't claim they picked everywhere - they weren't welcome in many red-neck areas, but where they worked they were made welcome as an addition to the rural economy
In Scotland they were a large part of the fruit-picking - a number of fine albums of traditional music came out of 'The berryfields of Blair'
They were part of the otato-picking in East Anglia - they were until recently at the 'tattiee howkin' in Scotland
I think Jasper Smith and his family wen ho-picking in Kent
Kerry Traveller Mikeen McCarthy's family were an essential addition to the South West Ireland rural economy - as tinsmiths and fruit and vegetable pickers - the older ones desperately miss it - or so they told us
Times they have changed - and so is the pickin' Rag
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 02:39 AM

British workers reject fruit-picking jobs

Of course it is not just the current medical crisis where this is relevant. To those who have been suggesting that leaving the EU will create jobs for the British. I ask again, will the British want these jobs? I suspect not. There has always been need of migratory labour. Do people think that will stop?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 03:13 AM

" the British want these jobs? "
Unfortunately Britain has become a place where wanting a certain job has become a long-lost dream Dave - for most of my social group, you take what you are given or you scavenge to survive - go see, 'I Daniel Blake' for a horrifically accurate picture of what Britain has become for many
Knowing the people I grew up with that will have to either change or be accepted by force - surely such mass-dehumanisation can't continue indefinitely
Britain came into being poncing from the poorer nations via the Wmpire - when that went, we gave the work we didn't want to immigrants
Brexit slammed that door of convenient labour very loudly
It will be interesting to see how Brainless Boris tackles that one - it will also be interesting to see if the pandemic lifts the scales from enough eyes to make a few necessary changes - fingers crossed
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 03:50 AM

I agree with your sentiments, Jim, but it is not quite the point I am trying to make. Far from "you take what you are given", these are jobs that even those in need of the money will not take! I expected this to come to the fore when the seasonal jobs cannot be filled because of those who want to "take the country back" but the current crisis has brought it up a lot sooner.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 03:50 AM

tories will never understand that when they are in govt,
they should use the power vested in them
to value, protect, and nurture us,
not just ruthlessly exploit and discard us...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 03:53 AM

I don't usually share facebook posts, but seeing as I wrote this one, I will make an exception!

On Friday 17 April Public Health (England) revised its guidelines so that if there are insufficient gowns medical staff can use an apron instead, or other things like lab coats.

This is a marked lowering of the safety standards for medical staff and hence a marked increase in transmission to both them and other people they meet. Have no doubt: more nursing staff will die than would have if they do so. Moreover, once a medic is infected, they are as likely to transit the disease to a non-infected person as anyone else if they lack PPE: it does not just protect the staff it protects other patients. Also, since we know that whether you are thinking of Wuhan, or Italy, or anywhere else, the nation wide infections start with a single person, lowering the protection for the nurses slightly increases the risk for the entire nation.

Groups like the Royal College of Nursing are making it clear that nurses should refuse to treat patients if they were not happy that the level of PPE available would protect them properly.

It is a desperately difficult decision what to do if the PPE is inadequate: you are trading the potential loss of the life of the person in front of you with the potential loss of a much greater number of others. Moreover, if the medic is infected, they will be unable to treat anyone else for weeks as they are isolated. Those who have studied something called 'The Trolley Problem' will recognise it as this abstract problem turned into something horribly real. But in this case I come down on the side of the Royal College of Nurses: the medics should not put themselves at risk, or risk having to isolate and be unable to treat others.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 03:57 AM

Picking as it used to be by George Orwell

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/hop-picking/
There was an annual migration out of the east end of London every year for picking. This lasted up until the late 60's when mechanisation meant that one machine could do the work of 150 to 200 hop pickers.

https://theconversation.com/who-picked-british-fruit-and-veg-before-migrant-workers-63279

https://bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/52n2a4.pdf
and a gov reporton migrant workers(2013)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/257242/migrant-seasonal-workers.
Times change so do people and industries. Post war hop picking in Kent was an escape from slums. Those slums have gone (Although replacement high rise flats hardly match the vision of Le Corbusier of towers in a park) and the need to escape to fresh air no longer applies, nor the need to earn additional money.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 03:57 AM

DtG - tories have always been on the brink of enforcing compulsory workfare..

The thatcherite plan was to sack mass public sector workers,
then make them do exactly the same jobs for minimum dole money...

[errmm.. give or take a few finer details...]

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 04:14 AM

The science of economics is based on trying to fulfil unlimited wants with limited resources. Those resources are divided into three main categories. Materials (or land or natural resources), Labour and Capital. At the simplest level, capitalism or Conservativism, believes that capital and the entrepreneur are the most important while Labour believes that,yes, labour is the most important. In truth, neither can manage without the other. The responsible capitalist understands this and rewards their Labour force accordingly. The other type, of which this government is a prime example, do indeed "just ruthlessly exploit and discard us". Of course, conversely, the responsible socialist understands that to reward the labour force and provide social care, capital is required. There has been precious little evidence of that at work either.

The poor relation in all this has been natural resources. Previous economic models seem to assume that these will always be available or that scarce resources can be saved by increasing the open market price. Sadly we seem to be coming to the realisation that this is not true too late :-( Until a model that satisfies the entrepreneur and the labour force while ensuring we do not run out of basic resources is found, these political arguments will remain unresolved. That model will require compromise by all concerned and it is those unwilling to compromise that cause most rifts.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 04:55 AM

That's a good summary, I would say, Dave. As so often, the stuff I know about subjects comes in a large part from discussions I've had with people who actually know subjects for real, so most of what I know about economics comes via my father-in-law, who was a senior economist in the World Bank. We had many a long chat on the subject.

If we leave aside for the moment how economics affects everyone's lives - as you do! - and just think of it as an academic discipline then wearing my mathematician's hat it is simply an optimisation problem. A big, complex one with lots of constraints, agreed, but in essence it is straightforward. There is some overall objective you are trying to maximise, and you 'set the parameters' and make choices to try to do that. And, in the main, economics tries to optimise growth.

However, relatively few economists ask the question 'is that really what we should be optimising at all?' There are alternatives, particularly coming from people interested in protecting the environment or 'well-being' rather than wealth, but these are still very much away from the mainstream thinking. My hope is that the smarter Universities pay more attention to these alternative approaches in future, but as usual we will have to wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:04 AM

"these are jobs that even those in need of the money will not take! "
That might just have something to do with how much they are paind for doing what can be bloody hard work
As a youngster on the outskirts of Liverpool I quite enjoyed spud-picking in the local farms - it was hard work and in bad weather extremely dirty, but going off into the country with your mates was enjoyable - the pittance we were paid was a bonus
I only stopped when I found out I was doing someone out of a necessary job because the farmers used us s cheap labour
Londoners made hopping in Kent their annual holiday - don't know what the pay was like
At times like these, employers need to be forced to pay their workers a wage that reflects the hardship of their work
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:16 AM

"Those slums have gone"
To be replaced by equally escapable slums
THE REAL 'GREEN AND PLEASANT LAND' FOR MANY IN TODAY'S BRITAIN

Maybe it's ok on The Planet Zog, where some people appear to live
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:24 AM

Thanks, Dave. I studied economics to an intermediate level and was accepted on a day release (remember that?) Honours degree run by the LSE at Wigan tech! Sadly it was cancelled after about 6 weeks due to there being only 3 of us on it but I kept up my studies for a good while and always retained a keen interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:27 AM

Londoners made hopping in Kent their annual holiday - don't know what the pay was like

Farmers knew the eastenders treated the annual migration as a holiday and paid accordingly. The best in Kent in 1948 in four weeks could earn £40 - the equivalent of ten weeks' pay for an average man.
The best was generally held to be the traveller contingent, others made far less.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/brexit-and-the-workforce/why-are-so-few-brits-prepared-to-pick-fruit/554452.article

It is not so much the money as the rigid unemployment legislation. It is easier to stay unemployed than obtain temporary work and then try to prove your case about unemploment when the job finishes. Government should encourage temporary work not create a bureaucratic paperwork
nightmare for those that seek such work.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:51 AM

Employnet regulations are nowhere need as rigid as they need to be and many employers ignore them anyway, as they do the minimum wage laws
As the situation deteriorates, as it will, this will become a growing problem, with ruthless employers using the difficulties to clear out 'troublemakers' and drive wages down
The cry will be, "we have to pull together in these hard times" - just as they "pulled together" when things were don well for them - I don't ***** think !
It's well before time that the authorities began using monetary and even penal measures to stop these predators
Bring back the birch - I say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 06:07 AM

In post-Brexit UK, I wonder who will be blamed for ‘driving wages down’ now the scapegoats of past years - those nasty immigrants who were demonised by Brexiteers for ‘stealing our jobs’ (at the same time that they were allegedly ‘claiming our benefits’) - are considerably fewer in number here?

I’m sure the Far-Right will dream up some other disadvantaged, defenceless group for their propaganda mouthpieces such as the Daily Fail and the Torygraph to target.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 06:35 AM

Sorry Jim, once again you are mistaken. Tatty picking in Scotland was done in large part by Irish youngsters, many from County Mayo. There are interesting bits of History regarding the first and last trains onto Achill island and a prophesy made in 17th century.

"The first and last trains on the Achill line have very unfortunate associations. In 1894 a group of over 30 harvesters from Achill drowned in Clew Bay. Their hooker had capsized while carrying a full load of passengers to the steamship in Westport that would bring them to Scotland. A special train was brought into operation to transport the bodies of the victims home, for burial in Achill's Kildavnet Cemetery, even though the Achill railway extension was still under construction at the time of the accident.

Forty-three years later, in September 1937, another special train was put on to return the bodies of ten young boys to their native Achill. They had been working as harvesters in Kirkintilloch, near Glasgow, and had been burnt to death when their bothy or cabin, into which they had been locked for the night, had caught fire.

Two weeks later, on 30 September 1937, the Achill line closed for both goods and passengers, and the tracks were removed shortly afterwards.

These disasters had been prophesied in the 17th century by Brian Rua Ó Ceabháin from Inver in Erris, who was granted knowledge of the future after showing great kindness to a poor widow. He had foretold of the coming of the railway to Achill, describing carriages on iron wheels with smoke and fire. He prophesied that the first and the last trains to the island would carry home the dead.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 06:39 AM

I should have included that they also picked fruit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:26 AM

"Tatty picking in Scotland was done in large part by Irish youngsters, many from County Mayo."
No idea if that's the case now, but far from being youngsters whole families travelled from Donegal to Scotland for the picking - up to about ten years ago there was a regular bus/ferry service betweer the two
Theer's an excellent and very large study on the subject (no longer available as far as I can find)
Tere's a more recent on under the same title avalaaaaaable with the following description

"This is a true account of what life was really like for the tattie howker. The story tells of hardships endured by potato workers in Scotland in the 1950s and beyond. It refers to customs and beliefs, also how they lived together as one large group for the duration of the harvesting season. They were firmly at the bottom of the social scale, and often referred to sarcastically as “The Tattie Howkers.”
The story is real in that it tells of the author’s experiences working at the potato picking in Scotland during the years of her youth."
The trips were treated like the emigrants were

The best aural descriptions were includec in a wonderful radio programme written by Billy Kayy entitled 'From Gweedore to the Gorbals'

I'm not saying that they didn't come from other parts of Ireland, but Donegal and the Northern counties were the main sources of labour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: peteglasgow
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:30 AM

hello, iain = lovely to see you quoting george orwell - now there was a guy who spoke good, straightforward sense, more please..

i'm sure round aberdeen school kids used to have a week or so (half-term?) to do tatty picking and i'm guessing it was more widespread than that.

as it's a natural emergency this year maybe we could use the armed forces to help out with the harvests? also recruit loads of folk who are wanting to work and pay them a decent hourly rate. those who take to the work and are good at it could maybe get a bit more and some responsibility in the future. i know it sounds unusual but maybe we should take this opportunity to rethink how we do stuff

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:37 AM

"In post-Brexit UK, I wonder who will be blamed for ‘driving wages down’"
Can't see why the favourites "Greedy workers and foreigners" shouldn't remain out in front
Breaxit was only the start - you won't have to hold your breath too long for the "send 'em all home" to creep from their holes
The day after the rsult was announced 'people of colour' were bein asked whan they were going home

“It’s not just the ‘what are you still doing here, when are you going home’ stuff,” Drozdowics said in her office. “That’s really become more prevalent since Brexit, more normalised, encouraged by some mainstream politicians. I’m talking about real discrimination in access to jobs, housing, services, benefits.”
DECEMBER 2019

"The rats, the rats
It's time to get rid of the rats"
(Pantomime song remembered fro childhood)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:58 AM

pea picking and fruit picking are jobs that require skill the skills can be learned. clearly noone re has botherd to listen to the link i put up about apple picking

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 08:27 AM

I had listened to it, Sandman, and read other articles about it. Yes, there are skills that can be learnt. It is certainly not the 'unskilled' job it is sometimes made out to be. But as with most other jobs someone has to be prepared to pay for relatively low levels of production while these skills are being learnt. So it is not just a matter of whether UK people are prepared to take the job for the salary, it is also are the employers willing to bear that reduced output, rather than take people who are already practised. Importing people from Roumania to do the work looks as if they, or someone organising workers for the farms, are not prepared to.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 09:24 AM

The future problems seem to becoming apparent in the UK
Some Local Councils are beginning to doubt that they can continue and it is being suggested that students may have to take unskilled work for several years after graduating
Medical staff are still having to cope with poor or no protective clothing and are being to they now have to ignore the 'one-use only' instructions on equipment they do have
Trump is now behaving openly certifiable by describing the self-isolation policy as an attack on people's freedom and is expressing concerns on the effect the crisis is having on investment
Time for the back-to-front coat, I think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 09:51 AM

Lack of indigenous fruitpickers has been a feature of uk life for decades.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-jobs-row-as-romanian-fruit-pickers-arrive-for-harvest-11974364

Not just a uk problem but an Irish problem as well
https://www.echolive.ie/nationalnews/Keelings-under-fire-for-flying-in-fruit-pickers-from-abroad-during-pandemic-3d726a2f-bb4a-4
and I am sure the folk song "Deportees" by Woody Guthrie was not about itinerant Bulgarians.
It will be a choice between making pickers essential workers or let the product rot in the fields with concomitant shortages and eye watering price increases.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 10:13 AM

Keelings problems are far more to do with the decline of the fruit industry due to the fact that the overwhelming amount of fruit on sale is imported because it's cheaper and is not seasonal
The protests are shaming Ireland - a country that has relied on being able to emigrate in order to survive - rednecks get everywhere unfortunately
It's about time Britain realised that it's time they started paying back the dept of having sucked many world economies dry for may centuries. largely to the detriment of those countries indigenous people
Time we leches paid a few debts
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 10:18 AM

You weer right about prices of course - the same with oil
Now if the profit motives in both were removed..
I watced a wonderful Simon Reeve program a week or so again and was astounded at how low oil prices were to the locals in one of the oil-producing South American countries - that's before the multinationals got their greedy hand into the till
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 10:21 AM

tory ideology regards Trade Unions as enemies who must be demonised and crushed...

When they should be the partners of employers.

Important valuable assets for entrepreneurs...


Pfr - OND Busines Studies / Law, Accounting, Economics, A levels..

[then that pesky lefty pefty Humanities Degree, and further post grad studies on Ideologies...]

This is [probably] why I am so balanced and objective in my political thinking...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 11:50 AM

Keelings problems are far more to do with the decline of the fruit industry due to the fact that the overwhelming amount of fruit on sale is imported because it's cheaper and is not seasonal

This is not the story from those directly involved

1)It is important to note this is an industry that cannot source sufficient manpower locally to do the work.

Ireland needs approximately 1,500 seasonal workers to pick soft fruit and vegetables over the next two months.

Defending its reliance on Bulgarian workers this week, Keelings said it had experienced declining interest in Ireland in recent years and needed to employ 900 seasonal pickers between April and October. Up to 70 per cent return year after year.

This year, the company advertised locally for staff more than two weeks ago but had received just 27 applications by last week. It received a further 13 applications on Friday.

2)According to the Irish Farmers’ Association (IFA) “probably 100 per cent of horticulture farms have some form of labour from overseas”, typically from Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and, in recent years, mainly Romania and Bulgaria. “Most of these seasonal workers have been returning to the same jobs and farms for years and therefore are already fully trained and suited to the nature of the work,” it said.
“In the past two weeks there has not been any major interest in jobs advertised in the sector. Even during the last recession when unemployment was at 15 per cent, there was very little interest from the domestic labour force.”

3)On Friday, a statement from the Government said: “Seasonal workers are critical to the agricultural sector in terms of harvesting, planting and tending functions, especially in the current season.”



The EU has defined agricultural seasonal workers as essential workers.

According to the IFA, Germany recently relaxed its rules and is allowing 80,000 seasonal workers into the country during April and May.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 12:11 PM

Are tory ministers and their staff isolated in London,
getting impatient for Escorts, Dominatrixes, and Rent Boys
to be classed as key workers...???

Oh Purleeese. If this isn't a classic flame-bait, I don't know what is! Walk on by, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 12:27 PM

The same could be asked of Labour as well. Best we do not mention Labour and PIE!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 12:37 PM

Barb'ry - though of course, I'd say it's just having a bit of a mischievous laugh on a dull Saturday evening..

Anyway now I've got your attention,
could you please crack down on Americans invading and disruptively sniping in our one and only British thread..

Cheers...

Difficult one that as it is called 'UK politics' and not 'UK Only' so in all honesty, as long as people aren't simply there to troll, there's nothing to be done. I suppose you'd have to have a thread called 'UK Catters' or something.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 01:09 PM

Barb'ry - Ok, but I will be sarcastic here to our USA mates, whenever I think appropriate...

I can't presume you are familiar with our individual personalities,
so the crucial thing you need to know about me,
is that no matter how absurd or vulgar my smart arse wisecracks can be,
there is always a serious underlying political subtext..

That's just the way I am..

My intent being to amuse mates on either side left, or right,
and maybe push my concerns to the forefront for discussion
with a tough of good natured matey humour...

I'm never a vindictive disruptive 'troll' for the sake of creating mayhem...

[one or two puritanical mudcatters might disagree...???]

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 01:24 PM

"This is not the story from those directly involved"
Don't care - this has been a problem for a decade now - I know
Of course, the fact that Irish plums strawberries and cherries compare badly with those from elsewhere - god - how I miss Kentish Knapps and Victoria Plums - about all I do (other than having to drive between 60 and 200 miles for regular good films)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 01:43 PM

Never used it myself Jim, I can't be bothered watching films, but have you tried Netflix?

Always prefer a book myself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 01:50 PM

Jim & others discussing crop picking - by coincidence,
I've just received a newsletter from old mates over in The Bridgwater, Somerset, Labour Party..

[yes - that Bridgwater, folk song lovers...]

The Desperate Need for a Land Army


I had a quick read on the bog,
but as far as I could see, no mention of decent pay and conditions,
But, I'd hope that's implicit...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 02:00 PM

Well Jim if there was not a market for the"poor quality" irish fruit it would not be grown and would not require a foreign labout force to pick it now, would it?
Personally Iwould believe Dr. Eamonn Kehoe, Teagasc Soft Fruit Specialist: "At present, we produce about 7,000 tonnes of fresh strawberries per year. This is worth an estimated €37m. The Dutch cultivar ‘Elsanta’ is still the most popular cultivar grown. This is followed by a number of other cultivars including ‘Sonata’, ‘Clery’ and ‘Capri’. The cultivar ‘Malling Centenary’ is the most recent cultivar to be tried here. This was bred by the famous East Malling fruit research centre in East Malling, Kent, and named to celebrate 100 years of fruit research at the centre. So far it has proven very popular. This is especially due to its high-quality attributes.

Protected strawberry production is now the mainstay of Ireland’s soft fruit industry. The area of glasshouses built for protected strawberry production has increased substantially since the turn of the new millennium, and the expansion continues every year.
One of the main advantages of protective cropping is that it allows for the supply of fruit outside of the traditional short season of June to July. In fact, today strawberries are now supplied from late March right up until November. Fruit quality is also much higher, which is demanded by today’s consumer. Protective cropping also allows fruit to be harvested in unfavorable weather, giving pickers a much more comfortable environment to work in.
(Farmgate Value)Sector €million
Cattle 2,300
Dairy 1,800
Pigs 467
Horticulture 433
Sheep 256
Cereals 236
Poultry 157

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 02:27 PM

"Well Jim if there was not a market for the"poor quality" irish fruit it would not be grown "
Have you tried to find good Irish potatoes - historically the staple food?

Since the advent of Aldi and Lidl, Irish fruit has been sold at the side of the road 1-man from kiosks
In the main Wexford apples are sold for cider
The climate has always been a problem
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 02:45 PM

Bridgwater, huh? Reached one of the lowest ebbs of my life one afternoon in Bridgwater, in August 1990. I'd cycled from Manchester, heading for Bude, staying in youth hostels. Chepstow to Exford was Day Three. I'd just cycled over the Levels, southwestward, into the teeth of a persistent force 5/6 southwest wind. No respite, no shelter. I was semi-collapsed on a bench in a Bridgwater park, eating my eleventh banana of the day and swigging yet another litre of processed pineapple juice when I spotted a phone box. No bloody mobiles in those days. I phoned home and Mrs Steve, to paraphrase, told me to grow a pair. Well I made it to Exford hostel just in time for dinner, a sweating wreck wedged among those who had showered... Once cleaned up, I had a very entertaining evening in the pub with a guy who almost started a fist fight on my behalf after a stag-hunting Hooray Henry tried to take the piss out of the shorts I was wearing, as with a sneery rendition of "Donald, where's yer troosers"...

I currently have nothing to say on-topic except, perhaps, Donuel, where's yer troosers, but I'm working on it...Just watching a recording of Dolly at the Grand Ole Opry right now...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 04:15 PM

Have you tried to find good Irish potatoes - historically the staple food?
No point. They do not exist anywhere I have looked. British supermarkets offer better choice and vastly better quality.
On the soft fruit side of things growing under cover negates any negative climatic effects and lengthens the season.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:22 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics. Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:23 PM

Ta, Dave! ;-)