BS: Back in the sixties

Subject: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 11:01 AM

I think we all thought (naievely) that by smoking interesting tobacco, being peaceful and TALKING (& all sorts of other things too)- free love is all the world care to remember or think about now! - we could make a difference.

Everyone really did think that the common man and woman could make a difference. We dreamed the world would all agree to put an end to war - remember that one.

What have they done - and look at us now - look what they've done to my song ma - trite maybee but the people around then some involved in the movements of the time are involved or compromised in the warmongering now!

How do we stop them! Half a million in Hyde park last weekend - other demos - hmm.....

Politicians use wars to bolster economies and political careers - Mrs Thatcher & The Falklands to name an obvious one. Look at who is suppling heaps of hardware and creating heaps of jobs making new when it all gets left behind as too expensive to bring back! All they have to do is get the political spin right to sway the fickle public.

It's got nowt to do with Iraq It's all to do with economies - Look at Paris this week there are equally as bad and much worse potential there - Korea - India v Pakistan and I don't mean Cricket - how can we get one voice without Anarchy. Then there is oil!!!!

It looks like form what we are told that the main man in the middle east is not very nice to know. But do we know the truth???

The only hope in the midst of it all is Nelson Mandela did it in South Africa - Its not finished yet but he is winning - Sadly he missed most of his chances when they kept him locked up for 25 years.

Confused and fiddling in treacle

love 2 all

A

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 11:06 AM

Another damn political thread. Just what we needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: Amos
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 11:07 AM

Fiddler --

Sorefingers is going to go for a walk somewhere pretty. Join up with him, then. It'll do you both a world of good.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:36 PM

We did make a difference, fiddler. And some of us raised up a fine bunch of young people who will carry on where we leave off. Don't give up hope yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:56 AM

It's not political, It's life, and folk music, sang and dance is about life - By the people for the people etc. etc.

Yup I was having a desponant day! Why not!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: Little Robyn
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 05:09 AM

Hey, man, we did make a difference!
Think about the songs we used to sing in the early/mid 60s-
"If you miss me at the back of the bus"
"Carry it on"
"There but for fortune"
"The crow on the cradle"
"If I had a hammer"
"One man's hands"
"Turn, turn, turn"
"We shall overcome"

There was a lot of unfair stuff going on then. OK, there's still unfair stuff but it's changed, hasn't it? People seem to be more materialistic these days.

I guess there will always be greed and despots in this world but I'd like to think life is better nowadays for Afro-Americans, for Vietnamese, for all sorts of minority groups.
The world has changed and no doubt it will continue to change, hopefully in a way that is best for the greatest number.

I've just noticed - a lot of those songs came from Pete Seeger records!!! I love Pete Seeger! (And I have done since about 1952.)

There are probably just as many people today writing songs and singing about current world issues. Let's see if they can change the world! I reckon we did!

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: Fiolar
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 07:55 AM

I don't know. I was too busy trying to make a living with a wife and a young child to support.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:34 PM

Some things I don't think we can ever change :-)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: okthen
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 02:47 PM

I don't remember

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:21 PM

Way Back in the 1960s [Written in the 1960s]
by Robin Williamson

I was a young man back in the 1960s.
Yes, you made your own amusements then,
For going to the pictures;
Well, the travel was hard, and I mean
We still used the wheel.
But you could sit down at your table
And eat a real food meal.

But hey, you young people, well I just do not know,
And I can't even understand you
When you try to talk slow.

There was one fellow singing in those days,
And he was quite good, and I mean to say that
His name was Bob Dylan, and I used to do gigs too
Before I made my first million.
That was way, way back before,
before wild World War Three,
When England went missing,
And we moved to Paraguayee.

But hey, you young people, I just do not know,
And I can't even understand you
When you try to talk slow.

Well, I got a secret, and don't give us away.
I got some real food tins for my 91st birthday,
And your grandmother bought them
Way down in the new antique food store,
And for beans and for bacon, I will open up my door.

But hey, you young people, well I just do not know,
And I can't even understand you
When you try to talk slow.

Well, I was a young man back in the 1960s.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: breezy
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 05:29 PM

so its all your fault and you still dumb enuf to believe in it
Study History in your old age.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: Little Robyn
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 06:42 PM

The history classes at the local high school are teaching about the 60s - segregation, CND, Vietnam war etc. as history!
I still think of that as current events!

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 10:47 AM

They always say that if you can remember the sixties then you weren't really there. The truth is that for many of us who were at the right age (I was 16 at the beginning of the decade) there were so many things happening that we've all got loads of memories.

Over here in England, the Folk Boom started in the early 60s - probably as an extension of the skiffle and protest song movements. Strangely enough many of us started off with American material and gradually moved through Scottish and Irish before we found English music by the middle of the decade. By the late 60s, you could find folk clubs anywhere you went - I was moving all over on I.T. (well we actually called it D.P. - Data Processing in those days) contracts and I always managed to find somewhere to sing.

One of the main social changes was that people started moving away from home fairly young, rather than waiting until they got married, which was the norm up till then.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 11:48 AM

They said if you remembered Woodstock you weren't there - I wasn't - but I wnated to be!!!!

The Music and visual footage is still stunnning all these years after.

Folk did get very big for a while then it declined but feels as if it is on the up again - is it - and what do we sing about in the modern idiom - which incidentally ref back to our angry guest - is often political - protest or a clebration fo how hard and good life is!!

As for History! Thats yesterday man! I want to know where to take the future...... there are a lot of good kids out there and what are we leaving for them?

Sorry morose again :-))
A

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 07:16 AM

And you could leave your front door open and nobody would pinch nowt.
and a copper could give you a clip behind the ear for misbehavi'n and beer was thruppence for fourteen gallon and if you took a pound out for the night you could drink twenty eight pints and still have change for fish and chips for the whole of the street,a burtons suit,overcoat, spare pair of trousers, four pairs of shoes, a holiday for two in cleethorpes and a small familly car.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 07:33 AM

so who's been reading the Road to Nab End Then?

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 08:12 AM

But reallyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it was like that!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 09:09 AM

Yes, and we raised a generation of perpetual teenagers who don't finish school til they are thirty, get married twice before age thirty five, get the first decent job at forty and live in my house the whole bloody time...ha ha. WE have a lot to answer for.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 12:58 PM

hi Guest LOL in a big way!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:14 PM

What does LOL mean...seriously?

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:31 PM

Laugh out Loud

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 06:56 AM

Looking back to those days, I was at Woodstock, but wish I weren't. I wasn't at the Stonewall Rebellion, but wish I were.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties WW3
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 08:09 AM

Gee Amos, you think I would stay out in the freezing rain while this is going on?

Not likely. Actually fiddler is closer to truth than we can see at the moment. It's not that Saddam is bad, nor is it that there is a lot of bad stuff in the world, rather - far more sobering to me at least - our esteemed leaders are getting ready to bomb an entire country to fix the prolem.

It's similar to demolishing a house to rid it of a few pesky rats.

Mr Blair, Labor, and Mr Bush, Republican, seem, at first sight, strange bedfellows for such a crazy enterprise, but on closer inspection not a mystery at all. Both educated at Public school talk like two little Preppy kids - Mr Bryant may have some data on this - and are truely Tintin gone bananas. But then what can we expect? Give a kid a toy, and sooner or later, your head becomes target practice for some little brute who takes offence.

Seriously, G W a Born Again Christian, is almost Biblical in his pronouncements about Saddam. So we hear things like 'Saddam is a tortured...is lying....is evil' So we must bomb the entire continent of Africa.

You see, it is not that we don't know there is a problem, rather it is the almost infantile response that is sooooo frightening.

I hear on Radio, for I am always listening to it these days - thankyou Mr Ridge - where I am informed our President is an Evangelical, and these people so it appears do not flinch at a good war. It seems compared to Anglicans - Episcopeleans in the US - the Evangelicals are... more physical, they like getting dirty, so war to them is a release and they preach J himself would have no problem with leveling Bagdad with one big one.

Sooo where does that take us?

Suppose Kim Bong ill were to nuke L A Ca, what would G W do?

That bad.

Our concerns are real, our fears are justified and while, by this time, in the 1960's there would certainly be a general strike in the US and Blighty, student protests in every campus in the entire world...we certainly would not be throwing rocks at folks who merely start debates.

What is truely frightening here is the response of the West to what was until 9-11 a waiting game for Saddam's demise, probably by one of his own kind.

Have we gone too far? Could Islam simply unite and attack the western Army, which btw are only following orders, ..... It is not just Iraq and G W SHOULD be the first one to see that.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 08:55 AM

It was the sixties generation who raised the ME generation. wasn't it ?

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties re GuestME
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:13 AM

From one who is so scared of the truth, you have incredible stupidity.

First off if you are NOT a me person why can't you type you NAME?

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:18 AM

In the 60's, Pete Seeger used to sing songs celebrating Americans trying to impose regime change on Spain by making war on Franco. I think he and many others seem to have slightly changed focus since then.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 09:23 AM

hi sorefingers.....what is your point. I don't follow. Is your name REALLY sorefingers ?

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties Re GuestME
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 10:16 AM

Selfish is not sharing (your name). So not only are you mean, you are also scared of yourself, but fear not you are not the only scared person, we all sometimes feel the need to hide.

About names on Mudcat, see the FAQ, top righthand side of the page here.

Would you like some therapy?

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 10:31 AM

In the 60's, Pete Seeger used to sing songs celebrating Americans trying to impose regime change on Spain by making war on Franco.

Not quite - it was Franco who was trying for the regime change in Spain in the Civil War, and Pete was singing about Americans who tried to stop him.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:50 PM

It's all good stuff,

How many songs have come out of wars - really good songs and what about the poetry - especially teh first war - I think my brain may still be in the sixties just my body has moved on (or is it outwards).

One thing I spotted above was the religious theme - How many deaths and wars has that caused - War never works thats where we all came from - Look at Argentina and The Falklands - Yup - UK will never give up sovereignty but we are now talking to the Argentinians about their future - how many men died to arrive at this conclusion over 20 years later.

Fortunately Saddam does not have Hitlers (or Billy Grahams) Gift of oratory or the world would eb in danger.

Funny how everything gets back to the Iraq situation at present.

The soldiers - bless em - have trained for years for thsi and must be very confused now as we don't want em to do it. Bl**dy Hippes the lot of us! Even if we do have Jobs houses and Kids!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:53 PM

Sorry two in a row!

One of my favorite Songs - 70s

The old mans song

At the Turning of the Century I was a lad of five
My father went to fight the boers and never came back alive

Remember it.....

Finishing

Not much to show for a life that's been like one long bl**dy war!

WE tried and I keep trying

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM

The "ME" generation was the younger siblings of the 60s generation.

Yes, and we raised a generation of perpetual teenagers who don't finish school til they are thirty, get married twice before age thirty five, get the first decent job at forty and live in my house the whole bloody time...ha ha. WE have a lot to answer for.

No, those were the gen-Xers. The generation of young people today (approx. 18 to 30 yeard old) are an extremely varied bunch. But the ones I know personally are very self directed and are doing some pretty amazing things (like creating the Mudcat Cafe). I'm incredibly proud of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: JudeL
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:22 PM

Was watching a program on the OU the other night on the history of World War II. They analysed the reasoning and the desire for peace behind the policy of appeasement advocated by Neville Chamberlain. They evaluated the way in which Hitler played on that desire by making promises which (given other evidence detailing his plans) he had no intention of keeping. He used that extra time to consolidate and extend his control over more of the world. There was footage shown of protesters in Britain demonstrating to show their opposition to war. There was also footage of american politicians advocating an isolationist policy. It is not enough to have only one side have a desire to find peaceful solutions.

Let me be clear "I DO NOT WANT WAR", and I am certain that the politicians and the media are not telling us everything, but I cannot help remebering the quote "the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" and I worry that sometimes all the choices have bad consequences. And I wonder if a show of force soon is a lesser evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: JudeL
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:24 PM

Dammit I wasn't going to post to any war threads!

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: fiddler
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:28 PM

Sorry Jude probably not meant to do this but LOL!

I think amy folk feel as you do but are too frightened of the consequences if the US are right then Chem Bio and other tecniques (ofter the last escapade I believe they found mustard gas ready for deployment) probably will be used - Your comparisons are A1 - Us 60s kids are ??? stupid!!!!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: JudeL
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:51 PM

I don't think we are stupid but sometimes wishing something is or isn't true can prevent us from recognising danger. One of the big problems about this is without all the info how can we make informed decisions. Another quote that keeps ringing in my brain is the one about, if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.

I have 3 sons the youngest will be 17 in a few months, the eldest 21, if war does go ahead, what sort of war will it become? Will it stay a war of professional armed forces or will it start to suck in our young men and women. I find the whole idea scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: David Ingerson
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:48 PM

For us it might well stay a "war of professional armed forces" but the civilians of Iraq will suffer greatly and will die by the thousands. There but for the grace of god....

David

Subject: RE: BS: Back in the sixties
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:02 PM

Disagree with you totally, McGrath, a few posts back. If Franco wasn't running a regime in Spain, I'd like to know what else you'ld call it. And the Americans in the International Brigade were very rightly trying to help get rid of him and his loathsome policies( though not, alas, very efficiently). And I applaud Pete Seeger for singing their praises. Like I said, times change.