Ever had a music lesson?

Subject: Ever had a music lesson?
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:26 PM

I would suppose the vast majority of people who play classical music have had lessons, but folkies might be more evenly split. Let's have a little survey, I will start the ball rolling. I have never had any lessons(except attending the occasional percussion workshop in recent years).

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Edain
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:30 PM

I had music lessons for years, but not for anything folkie (unless you count about 3 guitar lessons way back when we got as far as, this is D...'

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:31 PM

you mean private lessons? or (for example) the eight years of mandatory music lessons through public school that EVERYONE in my school system went through?

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:36 PM

I suppose I mean individual or small group instrumental or vocal tuition, rather than whole classes of children being made to sing songs about peace and rainbows(or more patriotic ditties as it was in my day).

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:42 PM

Not a one ................and I think it shows !!

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: jeffp
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:42 PM

Trombone lessons from 5th grade through Senior High, guitar lessons for a couple of years after college and about 3 months of fiddle lessons a few years ago. All of them valuable for differing reasons.

I imagine workshops don't count, but I've taken a few of them also, on guitar, fiddle, and songs and songwriting. Those were extremely valuable also.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:46 PM

Yes, please mention workshops, or anything you've considered educational really. I'm just interested in how people got taught, whether by themselves or by other people.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: black walnut
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:51 PM

Many many many many many...lessons.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: GUEST,John Hardly
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:55 PM

I was a self-taught (and very frustrated) fingerstyle guitar player for 30+ years. My frustration stemmed from the non-social, non-ensemble nature of fingerstyle guitar.

I love old-timey and progressive bluegrass but, though I tried through books and instructional tapes to get the hang of flatpicking, I just never could.

I took two lessons with Joel Mabus with the focus of learning to flatpick.

Smartest musical thing I've ever done. I've never enjoyed music more. I can jam in fiddle tune sessions, and have even loosely formed a trio (we're going to be the featured act at a bar up in SB next month! -- do you like the name "Theefus" for an old-timey trio?).

I would do it again too. In a heartbeat. I'm even thinking I may schedule a lessong to straighten out a hand position problem I'm having with my mandolin.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: C-flat
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:55 PM

I am a self taught guitarist and, although I say it myself, have reached a fairly high standard of playing, incorporating a number of different styles. The problems with being self-taught only became evident when I started to branch out into other genres, in particular, jazz.
I played for a number of years in a gypsy-jazz trio, often fast and furious chord changes, and not a straight forward open chord amongst them! I had to work twice as hard as the other guys to learn the pieces and quite often found out later that I was using a wrong chord here or there simply because I hadn't learned how to work out the theory.
Not many people pick up the guitar with the intention of becoming a great player. Most folk would be happy enough to be able to strum a few chords and sing along and that's great, but if you really get the bug, then some time, later on, you're going to wish you had some musical education.
I've had to turn work down because I knew the other guys expected me to turn up and play anything from their pad at first sight.

My six year old daughter is presently having piano lessons, which I take her to and wait for her. Just now, it's very basic stuff, but as she progresses it's my intention to be watching and learning over her shoulder.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:07 PM

I get a music lesson any time I get to play with someone who can play something better than I do. But, formal instruction of the paid variety - no.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Padre
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:20 PM

Accordion lessons at age 10 (but I quit before learning to play "Lady of Spain") Also, some choral training in HS and college but no formal private lessons. Self-taught guitar and harmonica.

[And who could forget the flutaphone in 4th grade]

Padre

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Deckman
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:22 PM

Good question: I was fortunate to have a family friend bring the guitar and folk songs into my life when I was 13. That started probably 20 years of lessons, from him and from very proffessional teachers of voice, piano, guitar. I not only studied, but I also taught over those years. And, "teaching" an instrument(s), is just another degree of learning, if you will. To this day, and I'm well past 13, there are many things I wish to learn on the guitar, and when I can find the time, I will not hesitate to find the very best I can. CHEERS and best wishes, Bob

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Burke
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:28 PM

As an absolute beginner I had one week of a Banjo Retreat with Dwight Diller. That was last year.

This year I spent a week at the Augusta Heritage Center doing banjo with Sheila Kay Adams.

I'm making progress slowly on my own. I find it difficult to focus my practices & think regular lessons would help me on this.

I'm currently trying to find a clawhammer banjo teacher, but there don't seem to be any in my area. (Central New York, but too far from Ithaca) I guess I'll stick with the summertime week long sessions.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:45 PM

I’m not sure anyone learns to play entirely on their own. We may not take formal instruction but we watch and listen to what others are doing and ask available player how they play a certain tune or lick.

As a child I had a year of piano lessons, two or three years of violin lessons, a couple of years of trumpet lessons and a few trombone lessons. Several years of abstaining from music and lessons followed. When I decided to learn to accompany myself on guitar, a player I admired told me to get a book with the chords in it and apply the chords to the songs I wanted to sing. That actually worked pretty well as an intro because after learning some basic chords and rhythms, I gravitated towards people who played and I watched pretty carefully.

A couple of years later, I determined to learn properly from a professional teacher. He played Travis style on a Fender Jazzmaster fitted with a Bixby tailpiece and tremello. Not only that but he played and taught from proper charts and wanted me to do the same. Unfortunately, before we made much progress, I was obliged to leave town and abandoned formal lessons for the next 30 years or so. I’d attend the free morning workshops offered each year at the Chicago Folk Festival and I’d stop the featured performers in hallways and get them to show me particular tunes or licks.

Whenever I attended shows by people who could play, I’d sit in the front row or table and carefully watch every move they made. One year a friend and I went to see Gary Davis in Chicago. Between sets he just sat alone in a corner and no one would talk to him but the waitress. We went over and started making conversation and wound up inviting him over to my place for Sunday dinner the next day. Of course he wouldn’t come without his guitar. It happened to be the week of Thanksgiving and he was booked through the next weekend so we invited him for Thanksgiving dinner as well. Brother Davis called his wife in Long Island and she flew in and joined us. Now Gary didn’t really provide instruction and of course we didn’t ask but he wasn’t really comfortable unless he was playing so we got to see, close up, exactly how he made those wonderful licks we’d worked so hard to pick up from records.

Some years back I decided I needed more theory and wanted to play some jazz backup in something akin to a proper fashion. My daughter was studying piano with a woman whose husband was a professional jazz musician, composer and teacher. I asked him if he could recommend a teacher for someone with my informal musical background and he recommended me to a teacher of jazz guitar. That was really the only time I’ve taken any meaningful number of formal guitar lessons. My teacher has since passed on but he left me with the ability to pick up tunes from charts and understand enough theory to get through most of what interests me.

If someone reading this is trying to decide whether or not to take formal lessons… Do it! Don’t hesitate another day. You’ll never be sorry.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:49 PM

No lessons, and it shows. My experience comes from listening and watching and figuring out some theory. I'm still learning.

I once wrote:

second verse

Started playing real early in my younger days
I'm just a slow learner some ways
But with no thought of stopping, just strumming away
I'll only get better each day.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: tuggy mac
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:17 PM

I play a mean air guitar and have never been taught!

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Stewart
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:12 PM

About 7 years of classical violin, starting at age 8. Oh yes, and 1 year of piano before that. A year of music theory in college, and 7 years of voice (classical, opera, etc.) in college and university. I've been playing guitar for over 40 years, but never a lesson on that. And since I've taken up fiddle about 6 years ago, probably about a dozen private lessons with various teachers in Seattle. The lessons and theory, though mostly classical, have been a tremendous foundation for what I do now, which is trad folk music. On guitar, I could have benefited from lessons, since I am not that good - self-taught has its limitations. See the recent thread on CLASSICAL TRAINING. I've done many group workshops, which have been good, but I think individual private lessons are the best.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: mooman
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 07:24 PM

Not a single one although these days I am doing some music teaching myself! Like Mark Clark says above though I have probably learnt a lot by watching and listening to others starting with my father and the mandolin at about age 10.

Peace,

moo

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Joybell
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 07:51 PM

Self-taught singer from the time I could talk but I found the most fantastic, patient teacher of guitar and banjo accompaniment for voice - we became best friends, then soul-mates. That was 20 years ago. Now the lessons are free. Perfect arrangement.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 07:58 PM

As a rank beginner, an older relative showed me some guitar chords, but no one in my town taught anything but piano. Couldn't afforf lessons anyway. Much later in life, Pete Seeger gave me my first banjo lesson.Oh, you said music lesson...

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 08:40 PM

I had several years of formal Classical Piano Lessons, Practial & Theory:
Classical Piano Lessons ---> Sit student in front of piano, scream and shout, and if they do anything wrong, crack them over the knuckles with a ruler. Be reluctant to waste time explaining much, just keep them at it - they'll suck it in by osmosis!

My father, who was a very talented amateur Classically trained violinist, threatened to go insane/put me with a different teacher (second worked!) unless she gave me extra pieces - I was only allowed to play all year the 9 pieces needed (from memory 3 choices for each of the three sections of the AMEB) - as he was beginnig to go crazy from my limited rep!

He taught me that "faster and louder" was not good music (something that still tends to make me lose interest in many "Irish Sessions"!) and showed me that TECHNICAL CONTROL was the key. He showed me that he could do a constant volume, steady single note (or tune) on a single bow strike that could take a long, long time. He could also play "Hot Canary" as fast as you could hear it...

When pressured by my teacher to enter the local country town eisteddford, they agreed reluctantly. My teacher never trusted me after that. Not only did I get a second prize for piano, and a Special for singing, I did the best of all her students.... :-)

I have always tended to "charge" from an audience - I did some Theatrical stuff later on.

I wnet to a differnt much better teacher for a few weeks, then she go a job outside town, so I was more or less left alone, as I didn't want to go back to the previous one. The new one sat me down at a Grand instead of an upright. The difference was amazing. I think most probrlrms caused to piano students are from poor teachers who "go through the paces" rather than respond to their students, and bad upright pianos!

I also did a year on Pipe Organ, learning the techniques. This helpe enormously when I took up the Piano accordion recently.

Recently I have taken up several other instruments, with minimal tuition. Having learnt the rudiments of Theory, all I need to grasp is the technicalities of an instrument. Much of that can be done from books, or even by ear, but I do need to ask a few questions from time to time.

I ALWAYS tell people to get some real tuition from someone competent. I have even had a few occassional students myself.

I have a nice story about a violinist who taught himself mostly. He used to go to Brisbane for his 2 weeks rec leave and study at the Conservatorium of Music, and practice by himslef the rest of the year, as there was no violin teacher in town. He was very keen, but picked up many bad habits. He did have a regular bowing pattern, playing all pieces with random bowings each time. Classical violinists are taught to bow regularly - it gives phrasing, etc. In ensemble playing, those playing the same part (eg, 1st violin) have their bows going the same way - it looks better, as well as giving the same sound for the whole orchestral section. He also could not change from one note to the next without sliding most of the time! My father claimed that he was the only violinist he had met who could slide an open string! :-) This may have been OK for folk/bluesgrass.etc, but was horrendous for Classical or Musical Theatre!

But there are 3 words that are the most important

Practice, Practice, Practice!

And the most important thing for muso to do

Listen!

Robin

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 08:49 PM

When I was at the University of Minnesota many moons ago, for about a year I would take the streetcar weekly from Minneapolis to St. Paul, for classical guitar lessons. This in a time when the mention of the words "classical guitar" brought on blank looks of bewilderment from almost anyone. I can't say that I ever got even to a stage you could call competent, but I formed an approach to how the fingers picked the strings, sufficient that over the subsequent years I was able to accompany (simply) my folk song singing.

Now, 50 years later, I'm taking lessons again--vocal lessons this time! I told my teacher on the first occasion, I definitely didn't want to adopt classical singing mannerisms, that that wasn't my kind of music. That I saw three areas I wanted help in: Making the most of or maybe widening my vocal range; breath control; and to a degree, diction, but again not falling into. Those were in descending order of importance as I saw it then.

I told her recently that I had re-ordered my priorities, based on what we had done in the lessons: Now it's (1) breath control (breath control, breath control, breath control); (2) diction; and (3)range. She told me that I really didn't have a particular range problem, and that the biggest issue is breathing. And that's coming along.

Not doing too bad for a geezer of 72.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 08:52 PM

I mentioned in a previous thread about having met someone with this peculiar "idiot savant" style ability, but I saw on TV last night a story about a seven year old who plays Classical Piano. He began plyaing at about three and a half.

He has had no lessons, can't read music, etc. He sits in his father's lap, and watches and listens to his father play something, then immediately plays it back. He is very good!

His father, a very good muso - and a music teacher - only has one problem. He can understand technically how the kid does it, but he can't understand physically how he does it - his hands are supposed to be just too small! All the family are musos - they have a 6 or 7 piece classical orchestra - guess who the pianist now is?

Robin

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 12:32 AM

I took singing lessons in high school. I loved them. I knew from the start that I wouldn't be any good, but I love singing, I loved the lessons. My teacher made me sing in Italian. I think even Italian phone books sound romantic. The Vaccai, a collection of vocal exercises have fairly prosaic lyrics in English. In Italian, they sounded wonderful. (I don't speak Italian. I just used to sing in it.)
Some years ago, I sent my sister a bodhran for her birthday. She then took bodhran lessons at the Chicago school of Folk Music. Oh well.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 03:10 AM

At the tender age of ten I started with music lessons for accordeon. I didn't like the instrument, but my mother found it more practical than a piano, which we couldn't afford at this time. After four years of intensive training I abandoned it.
With the boy scouts I switched to guitar and was shown some grips to accompany our singing. First I strummed, but when I was presented a then 60 year old Spanish guitar I started plucking, teaching myself, but this wasn't enough. I stopped with easy Renaissance pieces.
In the church brass band I got a short introduction into the theory of the instruments, the rest was remembrance of musical theory and practice, practice, practice. I performed badly with the trumpet (deformation of upper lip), but when I had changed to the tuba I performed quite well.
It was the same with woodwinds (recorders and historical instruments).
This versatility I owe to my accordeon teacher (may he rest in peace). He gave me a solid knowledge in musical theory which payed off well for the rest of my life.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: smallpiper
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:58 AM

Guitar - none
Whistle - none
Flute - none
Fiddle - Niknak has given me about a dozen lessons including music theory. Bless her.
Highland pipes - 12 when I was starting out
Smallpipes - 6 workshops
Border pipes - none (but will attend workshops when I can)

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Mitch the Bass
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 07:44 AM

I had about 3 years of piano lessons starting 1962.
5 years of Double Bass (String Bass) lessons starting 1964.

Self taught melodeon and concertina starting 1969 with assistance of workshops at Whitby and Sidmouth festivals.

I now do workshops at festivals and teach at the Spring and Autumn music days in Stafford UK.

Mitch

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Grab
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 08:15 AM

Yes on every instrument I play (violin, piano, guitar and voice). I learnt piano and violin early on, and the theory I learnt then makes me a much better guitarist. I can work out chords from first principles, where some other guys I know at folk clubs (who are otherwise pretty good guitarists) need to have them written down for them.

Some things, like familarity with the fingerboard, you just have to learn from doing it. But there's a lot of stuff which teachers can tell you about how to play better. On guitar for instance, I've learnt that keeping my left-hand elbow close to my side (rather than stuck out like a chicken flapping) gives my fingers more range of frets. You will *never* correct a bad habit on your own, bcos you won't recognise it as a bad habit.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Mooh
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 08:44 AM

Years of horrid classical piano lessons when I was young. I loved the piano but disliked the teachers. The lessons were very useful for technique, but all the REAL music I learned came from my Dad. He taught me how to understand music theory, how to phrase, breathe, read, interpret, and appreciate. His interest was mostly church music but he also got me started with folk music. My Mom played piano alot as did my brother and sisters while growing up and there was always music playing at home, live or recorded.

I've had some serious vocal lessons over the years and have sung in church choirs for nearly 40 years. The timbre of my voice isn't the finest, but it works. Every practice is an education with an elderly and very skilled choir director.

Though I teach private guitar, bass, mandolin and some 4 string banjo lessons, I never really had a formal lesson myself until decades after I was playing for pay, and those lessons were workshops and the like. A few classes with Simon Mayor (and one unbelievable impromptu private session) on mandolin absolutely transformed my playing. Several workshops with folks like Don Ross, Pierre Bensusan, Tony McManus, Chris Proctor, John Renbourn, haven't hurt either.

But all things considered, it was my Dad who set me straight. No wonder I miss him.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 09:05 AM

Nope, Nary a one...(am discounting the 4 days on French Horn at the age of 13!)

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:32 PM

Started out with trumpet/cornet lessons in grade school--learned guitar informally, from friends and playing bands in high school and college--studied music in an actual music school and was certified to teach--started taking guitar lessons from a jazz guitarist after playing for about 10 years and discovered the right way to do a lot of things I had fudged my way through for years, as well as practical theory(that stuff that you use) and all those mundane things you need to know when you are serious about working with people--

When I started teaching, I talked to a lot of people who had played but stopped, and they tended to tell me that they hadn't learned enough of the basics to move ahead--

I always tried to make sure my students had the basics, and they had them right--also that they learned stuff that was broadly useful--*never* taught anyone to play a tune just like the record,but I did teach how to listen to the record, and how to put together an arrangement using the same elements--

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:59 PM

Piano lessons with private teacher as a youngster and later for a while as an adult. Most useful thing was learning to read music. Sang in school & church choirs, then in a Bach choir ( not just Bach, but Handel, Mozart,Haydn, Palestrina, Bruckner, Britten - the whole range).Learnt a lot about breath control, phrasing & voice production there.
Never had a guitar, banjo lesson in my life, but picked them up easily as accompaniment instruments. English Concertina - again no lessons, but played in hundreds of sessions and gradually the fingering became automatic as tunes became more familiar. Still find it very useful to read music in order to pick up tunes half-remembered from sessions.
Mary Humphreys

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: LesB
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 02:21 PM

Not since skoowl! I never learnt anything then, there were no instruments. I vaguely remember being sat down in front of an old T.V. (not a transvestite), and being told that this was proper music and I must learn to appreciate it. I just wanted to listen to Bob Dylan P.P & M, Donovan etc.
Left school and started fiddling around with a guitar.

35 years later I get persuaded to take up the melodeon. I finally took some beginners lesson with George Garside (he of the Whitby Workshops). I still can't read a note of music (or guitar tab). I just pick it up out of the air.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: treewind
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 02:38 PM

Apart for the usual school classes, individual lessons on cello for a long time, piano for not such a long time and composition for about a year (in a group of three, at school). I'm grateful for my school having a good music departrment with a strong-minded head of music who insisted on it being taken seriously by the rest of the school.

I taught myself a lot of theory on the piano keyboard, and learnt melodeon and concertina by working it out for myself and listening to/watching others.

I hope I'm still learning. I've been asked to give lessons but always refuse because I don't enjoy teaching.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:00 PM

several years lessons on the clarinet,and played in school band....this allowed me to sneak into folk music sideways by picking up the recorder pretty quickly. Then one brief lesson on how to chord a dulcimer.

(oh, yes..ONE guitar lesson from a joker ..."here, put your fingers like this...that's called a 'barred F', practice that and I'll show you more." Probably why I took up the autoharp.)

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:19 PM

At school it was violin and recorder, one of which I still play occasionally. Outside of school, serious vocal stuff, including some opera. Since school, self taught penny whistle, shaky egg and occasional tinkles on the piano.

It seems that classical training is not a bar to playing folk, and neither is playing folk a bar to doing the classical stuff.

LTS

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 05:05 PM

Yes, many. I started piano lessons when I was 9. I kept them up all through school and into college. In college I had to have a secondary instrument, so I took voice lessons. Five years ago I started fiddle lessons.

I have never had any guitar lessons, but since I've been fiddling, the guitar makes a lot more sense.

When I studied piano, it was all classical music, of course. I had some "jazz" lessons in college but didn't really like it much. All of my popular stuff, I have always learned by ear. Never bought sheet music except to get the words.

Fiddling is about 50/50. I learn a lot from printed music, but a lot by ear as well.

It never hurts to take a few lessons just to expand your knowledge. Most teachers will be willing to coach you, without you having to make a full-time commitment to weekly lessons, unless that's what you want to do.

Subject: RE: Ever had a music lesson?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 05:12 PM

Six weeks of Clarinet at school aged twelve,Then Scottish pipes in an
R A F Apprentice Band.Self taught Clarinet and Sax playing Jazz,then
found Folk.Shown the basic chords on guitar by a friend,later had a simple thumb and one finger pick demonstrated by another.Everything else I cant blame any body for but myself. I still manage to get paid work playing Guitar ,Banjo, Mandoline and whistle,and still really enjoy music.