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Male facial hair & folk music - a link?
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Subject: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:17 PM We were at a folk festival last weekend, and my wife suddenly said, do you realise you are the only man in this pub without a beard? Is there a link between male beards and folk music? |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:21 PM Yup |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:35 PM Follicles |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:39 PM Drat - I hit the "enter" key again! Dunno about the hirsute audience. I think that dates more from the sixties influence on the genre than on any historic reason. When I was performing, in the '50's and early '60's, most of us were bald faced, with an odd moustache or beard thrown in. There was always a group of folks with a more tweedy, philosophical bent, often seen with bulldog pipes and chess sets in front of them. More often than not, they were not the performers, but the daily denizens of a given coffee house or bar, usually seated in the background. It may also be a product of place. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Phil Cooper Date: 06 Sep 07 - 03:17 PM I just tired of shaving back in 1981 and never looked back. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Sep 07 - 03:21 PM I think most men would prefer not to shave, and it's a genre that encourages them to give it up. BTW Was it only the men in the pub that had beards? Giok |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Sep 07 - 03:50 PM well now you mention it Giok, (I'm only guessing) but I don't reckon there were too many Californians. Call my interest prurient but I prefer you more luxuriant (from the traditional folksong collection of Big Al Whittle) |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:03 PM It's the Brazilians you need to watch out for matey. G |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:09 PM And if you play the banjo, you won't be seeing many of those! LTS |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: the button Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:13 PM I've been beardless since I shaved my head. I didn't want it to look as though I'd sneezed & my hair had slipped forward. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: RTim Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:17 PM In a related - but totally Un-related question! Have you ever noticed that American Indians DON'T have facial hair? How did they shave? Tim Radford - Folk singer - With a Beard! (since I was 18 years old) |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:21 PM RTim - it's genetic - just as Asian men tend not to get bushy beards or curly hair. Oriental beards tend to be thin, wispy and straight. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST,Don Firth Date: 06 Sep 07 - 05:51 PM When I was about 17 or so, I grew a mustache. It lasted for about two months, until my mother said, "Get rid of that thing! It makes you look like a pimp!" So I stayed clean-shaven all through the 1950s and 1960s. I finally grew a full beard in the early 1980s, just for the hell of it, but partly to piss off my supervisor at the telephone company, where I was working at the time. After a couple of years, the damned thing started to itch (despite shampooing it every few days—the task moved in to replace shaving). One morning we were having pancakes for breakfast, and the third time I managed to drizzle maple syrup into my beard, I sez, "Okay! That's it!" And I shaved it off. All but the mustache. A year and a half later, my supervisor at the phone company looked at me kinda funny and said, "When did you grow the mustache?" Real quick on the up-take, that lady! I see a fair amount of facial hair (mostly on the men) at folk festivals and such, but not everybody. During the Northwest Folklife Festivals in the early 1970s, by just looking around, I got the impression that, even though I (clean shaven) was performing, they wouldn't let very many singers in unless they wore a beard and a black Greek fisherman's cap. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Sep 07 - 06:35 PM I was just trying to think - did Peter Paul and Mary start it all off? Or Ewan MacColl. Or The Dubliners. Beards are definitely more prevalent in folk music circles. When I was a kid, the only beards you ever saw was the sailor on Players cigarettes and Father Christmas. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Mike Miller Date: 06 Sep 07 - 06:39 PM Well, it's damn well about time that someone asked this question. As Jimmy Durante used to say, "It's a consriracy, a conspiracy, I tell ya." When I moved to Dublin, in 1969, I was taken by all the bearded folksingers. I've been sporting 'em since '62, and I stood out in Philadelphia folk circles. Nowadays, facial hair is almost GI. Might that be because folksingers cant speak above a whisker? Mike Miller |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Bob the Postman Date: 06 Sep 07 - 06:54 PM Aboriginal men living along the coast of what is now British Columbia and Alaska used to pluck out their whiskers using a pair of clam shells as tweezers. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 06 Sep 07 - 07:08 PM |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Sep 07 - 08:17 PM My dad used to be clean shaven when I was a kid but wore a beard for so many years before he died that I can't remember when he first grew it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Rowan Date: 06 Sep 07 - 10:10 PM Years ago I took a Melbourne friend of mine to the Numeralla FF for the Australia Day weekend. She was a potter with, I found out that weekend, a habit of sliding into the background with a sketchbook and pencils. She disappeared for the day and, when I asked her what she'd seen and done while elsewhere in the festival, she told me she'd been sketching people. "Their faces are wonderful," she said. "They all look so ... lived in!" About the most astute observation of folkies I've come across. And quite a few had facial hair. Cheers, Rowan. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: gnomad Date: 07 Sep 07 - 03:24 AM I grew mine aged 21, basically as soon as I could, because otherwise I needed my passport to get into a pub. After 3 years of being old enough (UK drinking is legal from age 18) that seemed more than enough. I think what really pushed me over the edge was a bus driver offering me half fare (ie I looked 13 or less). Also people don't expect to hand over thousands in cash to an apparent juvenile, however august the bank counter he is standing behind. Of course now, 32 years later, I keep it out of a combination of habit, laziness, and fear that the pubs might refuse me service again if I shaved it off. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Sugwash Date: 07 Sep 07 - 03:44 AM I grew my beard when I was in submarines back in the 70s; washing wasn't an option whilst on patrol so it made sense to have a 'set'. I had to put a request in to the captain to 'Stop shaving.' and then had three weeks to produce an acceptable beard. I've had a beard for 32 years and been a 'folk singer' for around 37 years. I didn't grow the beard because I was interested in folk music, nor does it necessarily follow that those with beards play banjoes or sing ballads with a finger in their ear. But hey Mudcat fellas, lets all grow beards, wear sandles and Arran sweaters and eat beans, it'll at least validate the stereotype produced by those lazy swabs in the [British] media. Do other folkies in countries suffer similar stereotyping I wonder? |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Leadfingers Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:03 AM Having HAD to shave for fourteen years (In the RAF , you ARE allowed a moustache but NOT a beard) When i started my Demob leave i stopped shaving , and havent shaved since ! |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:10 AM "I've been beardless since I shaved my head. I didn't want it to look as though I'd sneezed & my hair had slipped forward. " For similar reasons, I always find it amusing when someone is losing their hair at the front but grows a ponytail. In fact, the prevalence of the ponytail as beard accompaniment is a phenomenon which seems almost exclusive to folk... |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: John MacKenzie Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:20 AM It happens in pop music circles too, especially on the roadie, and production side Ruth. Giok |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:57 AM Recently I put my name (Sean Breadin) into an online anagram generator and was delighted when it came up with Insane Beard; entirely appropriate I might add, at least by North-East standards - things are a good deal wilder in the North-West... |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST Date: 07 Sep 07 - 06:52 AM About once a month I endure looking at myself in the mirror long enough to trim the beard short. With electric sheers it only takes a couple of minutes, shorter than when I shaved regularly. Having a beard saves me time and I probably look better, at least to myself. Anyway, I've had one most of my adult life and my kids wouldn't know me without one. I figure folkies have beards because they've better things to do than shave, and need to save their cash for guitar strings. Peace, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Susan of DT Date: 07 Sep 07 - 07:03 AM Beards are even more prevalent in the sea music subset of folkies. I remember looking around at the audience gathered at a workshop at the Mystic Sea Music Festival some years back and thinking, "I'm definitely enjoying the scenery." (The ships and river aren't bad either.) |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:38 AM Of course there's a link It's obligatory to have a beard if you are a regular attendee at a folk club and many folk festivals won't let clean-shaven men in. It stops the scene being infiltrated by trendies. |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: John MacKenzie Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:44 AM Attendee at Sidmouth Folk Festival. Giok |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: fretless Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:45 AM Folk music preceded the facial hair: started playing banjo in '63 and the beard didn't come until '81. Both of my brothers-in-law, neither are players, have beards, too, but none of the younger nephews do and neither does my daughter's boyfriend, so perhaps it is a generational thing. I plan to keep mine until I drop -- who wants to waste all that time shaving? |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer (cookie mislaid) Date: 07 Sep 07 - 09:11 AM What folkie can hold a candle to this mother of all beards?... prizewinning freestyle beard Cheers Nigel |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: George Papavgeris Date: 07 Sep 07 - 09:28 AM That's a barbershop beard, not a folk one! |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Sugwash Date: 07 Sep 07 - 09:59 AM Slight wixing up of mords in my previous post. Do other folkies in countries suffer similar stereotyping I wonder? ...should read...Do folkies in other countries suffer similar stereotyping I wonder? |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: GUEST,Don Firth Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:19 PM With your indulgence, here is an excerpt from the memoir thingy I'm writing. By way of background, "The Place Next Door" was one of the first coffeehouses to open in Seattle, and it was definitely the nicest one. A fairly big place, seating maybe 75 to 100 people at tables; served specialty coffees and teas, pastries, sandwiches, cheese boards, things like that. Part art gallery, it was clean, had an abstract mural on one wall, a fireplace. It was a much nicer place to sing than some of the famous folk clubs in the San Francisco Bay area that Bob Nelson (Deckman) and I encountered a few months later. It was next door to the Guild 45th Theater, which showed art and European films, and it was run by the same man, hence the name. It was also the first coffeehouse in Seattle to offer folk music as regular entertainment, and Bob and I were it. Spring of 1959 was well under way and on Friday and Saturday evenings in particular, Bob Nelson and I sang for near-capacity crowds at the Place Next Door. In the early evenings, the audience consisted largely of students, but as it grew later, the crowd swelled and became more varied. Late in the evening, the after-show folks began to appear, but not all of them were from the Guild 45th Theater next door. Many came in after the Symphony or the Opera. Late on a Friday or Saturday evening, it was not all that unusual to see a few evening gowns and tuxedos at The Place Next Door.But there were some aspiring folk-type singers who began to appear about that time. Long hair, beards (untrimmed), clothes purchased from the Salvation Army Thrift Shop, often bare feet despite Seattle's occasional propensity for rain and coolish weather, looking very much like they and their guitar lived in a Dumpster. Sometimes you could smell them coming. These persons had bought the stereotype too, and were doing their damndest to try to "fit in." Often they would look down on those of us who were more interested in the music than we were in trying to present an image. Sorta sad, really. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Mike Miller Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:23 PM Back in 1968, I shaved off my beard because I forgot what I looked like without it. When I looked in the mirror, I remembered why I grew it in the first place. I looked like the world's oldest, and chubbiest, Bar Mitzva boy. I ran away to Chicago and hid out ar Dodie Kalick's, in Evenstan, until it grew back. A former grandmother-in-law tried to get me to shave. She said. "I'll bet you have a beautiful chin under that beard." "Madam", I replied," I have several beautiful chins under this beard." |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: SouthernCelt Date: 07 Sep 07 - 07:55 PM Well, I'll join in on the side of love of folk music preceding the beard. I got into folk music big time in the mid-60s in college and didn't grow a beard until 1975. I grew it for two reasons -- I wanted to see what I'd look like and I was debating getting into Ware Between the States re-enacting (clean shaven men in the 1860s was a rarity). I liked it fine once it filled out and really liked the not shaving part so I kept it. Still have it but of course it has now gone from a medium brown with red highlights to gray/white. SC |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Darowyn Date: 08 Sep 07 - 04:18 AM I think that there might be a deeper cultural link between Folkies and facial hair. The more traditional folkie is very concerned with the idea of "authenticity". They feel that there was somewhere, sometime a pure seam of folk song, untainted by music hall, popular commercial music etc. In the same way that the Metal Kids or the Goths use their appearance to indicate their allegiance to their chosen sub culture, the adoption of the bearded look indicates an attachment to previous times and fashions. While in Worcester's Guildhall yesterday, I was looking at the portraits of the previous Mayors- all hirsute prior to about 1880! A preference for "real ale" is another quest for authenticity, and the use of a pewter tankard (with a glass bottom so you don't get nabbed by the press gang!) is another indicator of an adoption of the habits of an earlier era. As far as I know, there are only two music genre subcultures in which adults, as opposed to adolescents, express their musical preferences by dressing up and adopting a certain lifestyle. Those are Folk and Country. I could describe Line dancers- but that is Anthropology- the study of an alien and possibly incomprehensible society! Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: David C. Carter Date: 08 Sep 07 - 05:09 AM If you play mouth harp its best to keep your moustache short,co's it makes your eyes water if a stray hair gets caught while sliding from one note to another! Somebody mentioned Peter,Paul and Mary. Which one wore the beard! Take care everybody David |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 08 Sep 07 - 08:14 AM what's worse is getting moustache hair caught up in Dan Moi type Jew's Harps... |
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Subject: RE: Male facial hair & folk music - a link? From: David C. Carter Date: 08 Sep 07 - 09:51 AM How do you get a Jew's Harp into a harp rack? Is there something I don't know about? David |
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