BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??

Subject: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 03:09 PM

Has anyone read Dr. Atkin's "New Diet Revolution" and tried it? Does it work and are there any dangers in doing it?

My friend and I have just started it. It's pretty strange -and we're wondering if it's a good idea!

I've borrowed Kevin's cookie since Mudcatters seem collectively to know everything.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Bert
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 03:17 PM

We tried it. It was very difficult to follow. We felt nauseous all the time and it didn't work.

I think it's just an extreme version of the fake 'Mayo Clinic Diet' which is considered dangerous and is NOT approved by the Mayo Clinic.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 03:18 PM

about a year ago I wanted to lose 10 pounds and I had tried the low-fat, low-calorie, exercise 5 times a week route and NOTHING, I mean, NOTHING, happened. I was hungry all the time, I ate more, and consequently GAINED weight. I consulted with a personal trainer who said, you eat too much carbs and not enough protein. (Which was true - I had almost gone vegetarian. Not knocking that - it works for some - but it did not work for ME.)

She gave me a low-fat, low-carb, high protein program to follow. I ate lean meats and lots of salads, cut out things like the large portions of bread and pasta I used to eat.

I lost the weight and it has stayed off. I am not doing the full program anymore, but I have changed my eating habits to include lean meats, lots of vegetables, and the occasional sweet treat. I have also found that I eat smaller portions than I used to and I am not nearly as hungry.

As I understand it, the Atkins program is rather high in fat. Not sure how good that is on an ongoing basis.

There's been a lot of flak against these kinds of diets even though doctors have been prescribing them for years for people who have to stay away from sugars. The thing is, there is no One Way of Eating that is Good For All People. Everyone is different. Some people do very well on grains and veggies, while others, like me, gain weight. You have to find what Your Body responds to, and to hell with everyone else. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 03:19 PM

Kevin, I did it for over a year and lost over 40 lbs, but it was not natural for me; as a vegetarian, it was also difficult. I didn't adhere to it as strictly as he suggests. I quit eating that way altogether about last April or May.

I cannot say for sure this was caused by it, but I had a major problem this past summer with my kidneys and them dumping high levels of protein. It was fairly touch and go for about a month for my kidneys and with sky-high blood pressure. The doctors still have not pinpointed an exact cause.

Since then, I've had to restrict my protein levels, which is easy for me, and my health is much improved. A very good book was recommend me by a health practitioner in the UK, "Choose To Lose." It is a very safe and sane way of eating and you don't count calories or carbs or protein; you have a fat calorie allowance to spend each day in anyway that you want; NOT fat percentage, fat calorie and it really is easy and works.

I've also heard from a certified nutritionist who owns a health food store that a couple of her customers who did Atkins religiously wound up having to have kidney dialysis. I know Atkins has all kinds of rational sounding data to support his teachings and that he can refute almost any negative claim, but ultimately his program did not *feel* right for me and my body must have agreed. Please be careful and have a blood test now and then to check your kidney function.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 03:35 PM

Kat,

My aunt tells exactly the same story. Lost weight, developed kidney and blood pressure problems. I think I'd rather be overweight thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: paddymac
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 03:55 PM

I think KimC nailed it above with the observation that "there is no One Way of Eating that is Good For All People." I would only add that, as in most things, extremism can be dangerous. The Atkins diet is very commonly misunderstood, by both proponents and opponents. I general terms, he advocates initial carbohydrate exclusion, followed by a gradual re-introduction of carbohydrates, to the point that you stay "slightly purple" on the ketones "dip stick". The key to it's long-term success in any individual is their attentiveness to their food intake. I would distinguish between a rational approach and the sadly more common obsessive/compulsive approach.

From a broader perspective, an "Atkins-esque" pattern of eating, coupled with smaller portions and more frequent "meals", is closer to the food habits of earlier levels of social development and is more "natural" for humans. Put another way, anchored as we are in our modern existence, we think of it as "normal" and anything else as a deviation of some sort. The fact is, we can as well argue that it is our "modern life-style" that is abnormal.

Sorry. Didn't mean to get off the path and start philosophizing. Bottom line, I believe that "Atkins", applied with a dose of common sense, is safe and effective for most people. There is an MD named Gott who does an newspaper column here (US) which deals with all manner of health issues. Not long ago he did a piece on the varied and sundry diets promoted by different disciples. He summed it all up with what he called (somewhat tongue in cheek, but also earnestly) "The Three Word Gott Diet" - no sugar, flour. That is pretty damned close to a rational application of Atkins.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 04:08 PM

One thing I think is sort of ironic is that we now have the great Food Pyramid, which advocates eating mostly grains... then they tell us Americans are grossly overweight. Could be coinkydink, I don't know.

Several years ago, my mother worked with a lady who was overweight, and she drank several Cokes a day. Just by cutting out the Cokes, she was able to lose some weight. I believe a lot of people would have weight-loss success WITHOUT restrictive diets if they just cut out excess sugar and overeating.

I have noticed too, that so many of the diet foods (like Slim-Fast) are Full of Sugar! Now, I know people who have had success with these products .... I did not. I was hungry and miserable all the time.

As it has been pointed out, there is danger in extremism, so whatever you choose, be mindful. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Gary T
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 04:17 PM

My understanding is that a very high-protein diet can lead to ketosis, which I believe is what kat and Steve were referring to. Ketosis is potentially fatal, so I suggest do some VERY stringent research into this possible aspect of the Atkins diet.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: kimmers
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 04:25 PM

You definitely have to be careful with these extreme diets. The bottom line is, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. Most of the very-high-protein diets have insufficient amounts of fiber and can result in feeling bloated and sluggish. And yes, huge amounts of protein are not good for your kidneys.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Troll
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 04:27 PM

Eat smaller meals more slowly. Yer not starvin' and no ones gonna come and steal yer food. Take yer time!
You will find that you eat less and enjoy it more.(good company helps) The idea of five or six "mini-meals" during the day is good. And, most important, cut sugars and refined flours. The thing I disliked about the Atkins Diet was the scarcity of veggies. I'm an omnivore but I do like my veggies.
Exercise is also an important part of the equation, not for burning calories, but for cardio-vascular health and general body tone.
So keep an eye on yer liver and have a slice of roast pork for me.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: dwditty
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 04:29 PM

I have done Atkins with good success. Opponents seem to think that if you follow Atkins, you have to eat bacon all the time. Not true. He does advocate eating whatever is on the list for the first couple of weeks. After a while, it gets pretty easy to eat healthy foods, moderate fat, and continue to lose weight. Many veggies are fine - broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, salads, artichokes, brussel sprouts - in moderation. That is the whole key. My theory is that we are fat because we eat too much. I expanded Gott's list in paddymac's post above - No sugar, flour, rice, or potatoes. Everything else was OK.

But first:
1. Have a blood work up done before you start.
2. Check in after 4-6 weeks.
3. Continue to monitor every few months.

In my case, blood pressure dropped, tryglycerides dropped alot, lost 40 pounds, felt great (I work out as well).

My vote, do it, with common sense.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 05:08 PM

Several of my friends are doing a modified version of Atkins. general health of all is up. One has taken off over 80 lbs in the last year and off several medications now, a second has gotton blood pressure, diebetes and cholesterol all under control with this diet. Third had no major health problems, but has gone down two sizes and she feels it is helping with her menopause, forth just feels better all round while doing low carb. I haven't seen much effect yet, except I am not hungry for the first time in years! (okay - I have taken in the belt two holes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 05:13 PM

As has been noted above, there are dangers of a high protein diet, the most dangerous being kidney failure. There is a good point about carbs, though. Foods made with white flour add alot of weight, which is harder to take off than it is with fattening foods from other sources. Eating smaller portions is a good general rule. Your stomach will actually shrink a little over time if you eat smaller portions, and you will possibly adjust in time by craving smaller portions. Each person is different, so it's good advice to see a nutritionist and a doctor before embarking on a diet. M.D.'s have little training in nutrition, so in addition to being monitored by a doctor, and having tests to determine what general guidelines you should follow, a nutritionist can help fill in the details and set you on a path that's right for you. In my case, since last year I have only one kidney, so a diet of no more than 50 grams of protein a day for me is extremely important in preventing kidney failure. Coupled with a family history of high cholesterol, Dr. Atkin's diet would be a death sentence for me. Everyone agrees on thing, though. Whichever path you take, keeping yourself hydrated by drinking six to eight glasses a water a day is important for health. It flushes out your kidneys, and fills you up a little so you'll crave less junk food between meals.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 05:48 PM

Thanks everyone. This is very impressive - three valuable posts within ten minutes, and then lots more within a couple of hours

I'm going to be wary and follow the common-sense approach advocated by dwditty and others.

You could have saved my kidneys...

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Melani
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 06:00 PM

As everyone has noted, people are all different. Yesterday I had the great good fortune(!) to have lunch with my extremely obnoxious brother-in-law, a well-known research cardiologist (well-known if you're another cardiologist). The man apparently eats nothing but pasta and thinks everyone else should do the same. When three of us split one dessert, he sat there humming "The Death March" and calling his slim and attractive wife "Tubby". It certainly seems to work for him, since he is in excellent condition. However, I have two friends who are extremely sugar sensitive and who would swell up like balloons on his diet. One lost 60 lbs. by cutting out all refined carbohydrates, and the other lost 100 lbs., high blood pressure, and diabetes. My twelve-year-old son spent two years on the Ketogenic Diet, which is a very strict, highly controlled, high-fat diet designed to control seizures.It's only used one children because of cholesterol and other issues, and only for 2-3 years, then phased out. It can only be done under medical supervision, and we recently discovered that it was a lot more dangerous than we had understood, having even resulted in the death of one child at UCSF. But we lucked out--Daniel was one of three kids out of about 100 in his program who was completely cured by the diet. He was taking 9 pills a day of two different medications and still having seizures so severe that he was ending up in the emergency room on a regular basis. Since the day he started the diet, he has had no medication and no seizures in almost 4 years, and now has a normal EEG.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 06:04 PM

Sorry, folks, I didn't mean to repeat myself. Don't know how I did that.

- el joeclone to the rescue - duplicate post deleted:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: RedCelt
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 07:18 PM

Way back up the list, Troll advocated 5-6 mini-meals a day. This I had always heard, and it sounded logical to me, especially toward cutting intake volume. However, i recently read (and it may have been in the Atkins book, which I am looking at, or the Carb addicts diet) that that may not be the best idea.

This theory is based on insulin production by the body. If I have my facts straight, the conversion of simple carbohydrates and sugars into stored fats is done by insulin. WHen you initially begin to eat, your body produces a surge of insulin that is largely the same amount, regardless of the volume you are about to consume. If you eat several small meals a day, you are hitting your system with several jolts of insulin, and may be contributing to a higher conversion to fat ratio.

Additionally, your body produces a second surge of insulin approximately 1 hour after the first. If you are still eating, the surge is a large one again; if not, then a smaller one. This indicates that while eating slowly can allow you to feel when you reach the true point of "full" and avoid overeating, you should fininsh the entire meal, start to finish, in under one hour.

P.S. I had a fairly overwight relative who dropped 30 pounds in 3 1/2 weeks with the Carb Addicts diet. He happens to be an M.D., so I guess he found it safe enough, though he did talk a bit about Ketosis, especially with the Atkins plan.

Jeff

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: RedCelt
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 07:20 PM

Disclaimer... my above posting is pulled from my notoriously faulty memory... Check your sources before yuou take my word for anything.

Jeff

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 07:33 PM

Read it, cover to cover, which you also must do. Makes sense. It is the easiest for me, because I like to eat....a lot. Followed instructions and lost 15 pounds in less than four weeks. It works! NOT BS.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Helen
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 07:46 PM

I have a couple of books by an Australian doctor, Dr Sandra Cabot, who has focused her professional medical practice on nutrition, and especially the liver. One book is called The Liver Cleansing Diet, and the other is The Body Shaping Book (or something like that - lent it to a friend, found out yesterday she lent it to one of her friends - lucky my friend's moving to the other side of Oz or I'd go around there & throttle her - bad book-lending etiquette, IMHO) But, I digress.

Very balanced view of diets & nutrition. Very much based on scientific & medical research, and what is more, based on the awareness that everyone's body/physical make-up is different so you need to find the right nutritional combination which works for you. The Body Shaping book refers to three types of body/metabolism.

Bearing this in mind, years ago I lost weight on the Fit for Life diet. I stumbled on the food combination which worked for me and then stumbled on the Fit for Life book which happened to be advocating the same type of nutritional balance. the idea, in brief, is that you can eat almost anything you liek as long as it isn't too high in sugar or fat, but keep it simple so that your body can digest/process the food quickly. E.g. Don't eat protein & carbohydrates in the same meal, so if you have protein don't have bread, potatoes, pasta or rice, just have vegetables &/or salad. That includes not having a carbohydrate dessert. Don't have more than one protein in one meal. Another example, quiches, & cakes made with eggs don't fit the diet because it combines protein & carbohydrate.

Another hint was to only heat heavy or complicated meals between 8 hours of the day, i.e don't have three big complicated meals a day. Have a simple breakfast with no protein like fruit, cereal, toast, etc or make your breakfast a heavy meal and make your dinner a light meal. That gives your body 16 hours in the day to digest the food.

There is obviously more to it than that, but I found that Greek salads worked wonderfully well. Feta cheese, spinach leaves & bitter greens, lettuce, tomatoes, olives, lemon juice, olive oil. I could eat a dessert bowl sized portion and feel like I had had a three course meal. (That was what started me off on this diet - I bought a Greek salad for lunch one day, loved it, kept eating one each day for lunch for a few weeks and didn't realise that I was actually losing weight, and then found the book.)

I did follow th Atkins diet about 20 years ago & lost weight mainly, I think, because it said eat a bit of protein as a snack rather than carbohydrates, sugars or fats. That way you stave off the immediate hunger very quickly and you are less likely to put on weight than if you binge on the not-so-good-for-you stuff. I followed it in moderation, though.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM

this is what I've read in more than one medical source. We store carbohydrates in our bodies as starch, and each bit of starch is surrounded by water molecules. When we go on a diet that eliminates carbs, the body starts taking that starch out of storage. The water that was around it isn't needed anymore, so it is eliminated as urine. The weight loss we experience from these diets is dramatic because water is heavy stuff, but the loss is not meaningful, because it's only water. But everyone is impressed by the amount they drop in the first few weeks, and they tell all their friends to buy the book.

Time and again authors make a bundle by putting out another book which plays this trick on people. They may fool us by emphasizing what is eaten (The Hollywood Stars' Pineapple Diet!) rather than what is not eaten. They may hide what is going on by having people drink a lot of water to explain away the trips to the bathroom. But in time people get discouraged and interest fades.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that radically cutting out carbohydrates is NOT the answer.

As for people who say that such a diet solved a friend's blood pressure, diabetes or similar problems, I would be very, very skeptical.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: kimmers
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 11:30 PM

And you must also consider the environmental impact of high-protein diets. We need only a small amount of protein each day to use in making new tissues and renewing our supply of enzymes and such. Any protein that is consumed above and beyond these maintenance needs is *not* stored... it is converted by your body to a carbohydrate (glucose) through a metabolically expensive process. The leftover part of the molecule that contains the nitrogen (urea) is then flushed out through your kidneys. If your kidneys do not function at 100% capacity, your ability to eliminate urea is impaired and it builds up in your blood. That's why people with kidney disease are often on diets that restrict their protein.

Our bodies are designed to run on carbohydrates as a fuel, with protein for "building material" and fat for use as a stored energy source. Eating huge amounts of protein is wasteful; it's like cutting up a beautiful hardwood table and stuffing it in your woodstove. Our insistence on eating large amounts of animal protein harms our environment (via all of the side-effects of cattle grazing) and remains a very inefficient way to feed people. We need to think beyond our selfish desires to lose extra poundage in a fad diet and think of our brothers and sisters around the world.

When I have the urge to munch, I just pull my copy of "Poisonwood Bible" off the shelf and read about the Congolese children eating roasted grubs in their search for usable protein. That's enough to make you want to stick to grains and veggies for a few days, and to send the money you would have spent on the t-bone steak off to where it can do some good.

Sorry, didn't mean for this to sound self-righteous... I just wanted us to stop and think about the consequences of this trend.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:38 AM

Kimmers, thank you. That is one of the reasons I am a vegetarian and also why I never did the Dr. Atkins diet in a strict fashion. I did not know that about protein being turned into carbs. That is very interesting in light of what happened with me this past summer.

Moderation in all things, eh? Now, if I could just remember that, always!**BG**

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Melani
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:55 AM

Both of my friends who benefited from eliminating REFINED carbohydrates had problems metabolizing sugar. One was a borderline diabetic, the other weighed nearly 300 lbs. and had full-blown diabetes and high blood pressure. She simply eliminated refined carbs from her diet and now eats only whole grains, no sugar, and eats little fruit. She also began taking a 30-minute walk every day. With only those changes, she lost 100 lbs.in a year. I generally see her only once a year at the Renaissance Faire, and literally didn't recognize her. She no longer has high blood pressure, undoubtedly due to the drop in weight and increase in exercise, both of which will decrease blood pressure. She also no longer requires medication for diabetes...which is often associated with obesity. The other friend tried for years to lose weight, but nothing worked until her sugar metabolism problem was identified. Then she made the same changes, and 60 lbs. vanished. That was ten years before I met her.

Both these people had very specific health problems that made them hypersensitive to carbohydrates. My brother-in-law eats practically nothing but carbs, and is in wonderful shape.My mother is extremely overweight, but not diabetic, or anything like it. She just eats too much of everything. Probably fat intake is the problem for her, or just too many calories in general.

My son also had a very specific medical problem that responded to extended ketosis, and still nobody has been able to find out why it works, though the diet has been in use since the '20's. If the mechanism can be identified, then perhaps a medication can be developed instead of the extremely difficult diet. He ate 4 extremely tiny meals a day, and every bit of food had to be weighed to within .10 gram. We had to buy a scale for the purpose, use only certain foods and even certain brands of food, and put locks on all our kitchen cabinets and our refrigerator (the holes are still there). We also had to have special plumbing valves installed, because his liquid intake had to be restricted to the point of mild dehydration. As has been pointed out, this is not good for kidneys, and he had to be checked for possible stones periodically, especially since he can't communicate well enough to describe symptoms. We had to prepare all his meals in advance and carry them along when we went anywhere, and make sure no one else gave him any food or drink. We did that for two-and-a-half years, and the results were worth every minute. It doesn't always work that well--about a 50% sucess rate, sometimes with only partial seizure control. And there are serious risks involved, but seizures can kill you too.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Ely
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:00 AM

On a different note . . . our bodies also dehydrate more easily without carbohydrates, because carbs help us hold water (in a good way). That's why one can gain multiple pounds from a one-pound potato--it was lost water weight, not fat weight. I think that's part of what gives carbs a bad name.

Personally, my stomach just won't handle large amounts of meat. I'd be so sick I couldn't eat (which is one way to lose weight, I guess). I need the carbs 'cause salad just doesn't go that far, but I'll take whole wheat and rye over white any day. To each their own, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: kimmers
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:17 AM

O' course, it's easy for me to speak out against high-meat diets... I don't really like meat. Not a strict vegetarian, mind, I just try to eat it only about once a week or for special occasions... and I have to admit to a childish affection for the occasional strip of bacon. (have you ever really met anyone, not a strict vegetarian or Kosher, who didn't secretly *long* for bacon?)

But I'm with Ely on this one: I just don't feel good if I eat a lot of meat. My husband and I have an expression for the way one's mouth feels the morning after some big seasonal feast involving a lot of meat: "Carnivore Breath". Yuk. We try to follow those feasts with a few days of veggies and rice.

Trends in dieting come and go, and I think that the high-protein one seems to be on about a thirty-year cycle. Makes me wonder when we'll come back around to the high-fat (but delicious!) vegetarian cuisine full of cheese that was so popular in the 70's. Yum!

And yes... everything in moderation. That's the key. We should cut waaaay back on the goodies. We should eat lots more fresh vegetables and healthy fruits (no, raisins don't count). We should eat more whole grains and minimally processed foods. We should avoid fast food like the plague. We should drink fresh cold water and not sugary- or artificially-sweetened sodas. We need to find ways to make ourselves happy so that we don't turn to food for comfort. I don't think you'll find any reasonable diet plan that won't contain those elements.

Happy eating! Maybe we need a recipe thread. I firmly believe that more good home cooking is part of the answer to our collectively overweight state.

Dr. Kimmers (who has a nice pot of barley and broth simmmering on the stove right now)

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:49 AM

Oh, recipe thread! Oh boy, have we got a couple of threads for you to add to!! Just put "recipe" in the supersearch box and see what comes up! At one point there was going to be a cookbook. (You might also find it under "cookbook" in the supersearch, can't remember which, but there were several great threads.)

Yep, we do need to learn why food serves as comfort.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: MMario
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:22 AM

All I can say is this is the first diet that has even begun to "work" for me. It's not so much "large quantities of meat" - it's a lot of veggies too, but restricted carb intake.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:33 AM

I have tried something similar by someone called Brian Peskin. It involves taking chelated minerals and omega 3 and 6 and a detoxifier, as well as eating a reduced carb diet. I felt really well on it and lost a little weight. But it was expensive and unfortunately I have not been able to carry on with the supplements. But I do believe that we eat far too much carb in the form of sugar. I try to eat healthy foods, but succumb to what I can afford.Organic meat is way expensive, the veggies are coming down a bit, I always buy organic or free range eggs - I think eggs are oone of the best foods about. Kevin, I have a book called "Beyond the Zone" which I will let you borrow. Send me a PM. It goes into quite a lot of detail about reduced carb diets.
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: SDShad
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 10:27 AM

Leenia, there are at least three common misconceptions about low-carbohydrate eating in your post that I feel I must respond to.

The first, one commonly trumpeted by people who have read a few anti-Atkins blurbs but one easily refuted, is that most or all weight loss from low-carb is water. First, to the extent that this is true, it is true of many diets, that much of the initial weight loss (read: the first week or so, tops) is from water. But if all low-carb does is dump water, then during the half-year or so that I was conscientiously keeping to low-carb (not strict Atkins, but close enough), I lost nearly 60 pounds. 60 lbs of water loss--pretty impressive, huh? I have since gained much of it back, but for the reason that all re-gaining of weight happens, regardless of the eating plan: I went off the diet.

The second is the suggestion that low-carb is all about "what is eaten" rather than not, when the very name of this category of eating plan is in fact all about what isn't eaten: foods high in carbohydrates, especially highly-processed ones like white flour and refined sugar (which, by me, is basically a drug: it's addictive, it affects mood, and it has withdrawal symptoms). When I said "not strict Atkins" above, this is what I meant: I lost weight primarily by avoiding those two things, and by paying attention to the carb content of the rest of what I ate, and thus keeping in a state of what Atkins calls "benign dietary ketosis," not to be confused with ketoacidosis (a mistake most critics make), which is harmful.

Indeed, this keys in to the third misconception, that being that Atkins, the Zone, and related eating plans are essentially "radically cutting out carbohydrates." This is true with Atkins, for the first two weeks, the induction period where carbs are kept at 20g per day or below, first I think to get the sugar monkey off your back, and then, to give you a baseline from which to add carbs back in to a metabolic level where you're still losing weight, where you're comfortable with what you're eating, and where you're at a level that doesn't induce risks involving kidneys or other vital organs. But most critics attack Atkins based solely on Induction carb levels, completely ignoring the fact that any Atkins eater who's even half paying attention will spend 99-point-whatever percent of his or her time at Weight Loss and then Maintenance levels, where carb level really depends on metabolism and comfort level (on Maintenance, it can easily be over 100g/day).

[Let me issue a strong cautionary aside to anyone considering low-carb eating on this issue: no matter how tempting, no matter how dramatic your weight loss those first two weeks on Induction (and rest assured, it isn't all water loss), there is definitely truth to "too much of a good thing." No matter what, start upping your carbs after two weeks. I know one person who did temporary but frightening damage to his kidneys by staying on a radical "fat-fast" Induction level for several weeks. Don't get greedy--once you've started to lose weight and committed to it, you have all the time in the world to keep losing, and aren't doing yourself any favors by speeding up the process but damaging your kidneys.]

Is low-carb for everyone who wants to lose weight? Absolutely not. Metabolism figures in greatly. Are there areas where low-carb eating is lacking? Absolutely. For one, there are very few low-carb sources of potassium, so I always took a potassium supplement. It's funny that often the very people who might advocate vitamins and supplements generally are critical of the imbalances of low-carb eating without ever considering the vitamins and supplements, like potassium, that help ameliorate them.

Another misconception (not yours, but one that has appeared in this thread) is the notion that Atkins bans veggies. I can only laugh at that one; I can't remember a time in my life when I ate more yummy and creative salads than when I was low-carbing. I'll agree with kat that it'd be damned hard (maybe not impossible, but hard), to be truly vegetarian on Atkins. But it doesn't have to mean all red meat and fat; Atkins needs to be high-protien, but it doesn't need to be high-fat, so you could skip the red meat by getting your protien from fish, seafood, and poultry, all of which I love.

I'll make no anecdotal claims about friends' blood pressure, or general claims for that matter. I'll just state facts of one particular case: me. On Atkins, my blood pressure, cholesterol, and resting heart rate all went down. I had more energy, less joint pain, and much more mobility. Can't wait to get back on it.

I hope this isn't too screed-like; sorry if I'm coming on strong on this, but the time I spent on Atkins was an unabashed success. You have to educate yourself to how it really works best, and make allowances for potential health risks, but that's true of any weight-loss plan. I intend to go back on Atkins soon, and am doing so for informed reasons, not ignorant ones. I'll keep y'all posted on my progress.....

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:44 AM

Over a year I have lost almost 15 pounds and it is definitely NOT all water. I have been exercising, too, though, and that does help. I am a lot leaner than I was this time last year and several of my trousers are too big!

I don't believe in that food combination theory. Too hard to follow anyway. Although I will not argue that it probably works great for some.

I never, ever gave up my vegetables, except for cutting WAY back on the taters and the rice. I do eat them now but in smaller portions. (I am a NUT for potatoes and will eat them just about any way they can be fixed.)

For breakfast I have a protein shake. I don't get hungry till lunchtime - when I did cereal and toast and fruit, I was hungry again by the time I got to work. For lunch, lately some sliced turkey, cheese, and olives. Last night's supper was a broiled chicken breast and lots of steamed vegetables. One of my favorite lunches while I was losing was a mixed green salad with chopped turkey or chicken, a little feta cheese, and raspberry vinaigrette dressing. Yummy!!!!!!

I would like to point out, however, that I am always good for some pizza or a cheeseburger! Or Mexican - I love Mexican. But instead of getting the Big Mac these days, I hop over to Sonic for a Jr. Cheeseburger. And instead of three scoops of ice cream (my favorite treat), it's only one. And I don't eat the whole basket of bread anymore at the restaurant.

And fish. I absolutely love fish. Could eat fish every day. Mister might get bored, though. :)

Don't even get me started on prepackaged/processed foods. I think that was where a lot of my weight gain came from. We bought a lot of stuff in boxes because it was cheap, easy, and it tastes good. I love Kraft Macaroni & Cheese!! But people, processed foods is what is making us fat and making our hair fall out and all that rot. Lots and LOTS of hidden salts and sugars and other scary chemicals. (And kids are eating this sh*t every day now.) I may turn to them once in a while in a pinch, but we try to stick to natural foods. The downside is, our grocery bill has gone WAY up. But it's a small price to pay for staying away from the doctor.

I do think, however, that people need not put themselves through misery and strict deprivation to get healthy. It ain't easy, but you do have to do a little work if you want results.

Slainte!

Kim

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: SDShad
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 02:45 PM

If a friendly Joe Clone could insert a terminate italic tag after "for the first two weeks" in my post above, I'd be most appreciative....

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 09:33 PM

I tried one of those two week diets, and lost 14 days.
Actually, I did the Atkins diet for 7 days. Lost 9 pounds. His bread sucks..tasts like sawdust. His chocolate bars have little or no taste at all, and I got tired of bacon and eggs for breakfast.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 25 Oct 00 - 11:46 PM

I tried the Dr. Atkins' diet last year and lost weight, but didn't feel well and just didn't think it made sense for me.

The main thing is not to suffer about food. Food is lovely, and we shouldn't suffer over lovely things. Just eat small portions of stuff that tastes absolutely yummy and eat it slowly enough to actually taste it. Eat salad by the bale.

And then ... TAKE WALKS. Ride a bike. Get out and move around. In the Monopoly Game of life, our bodies are our little Scottie Dogs, and we need to love them and take care of them so we can round "Go" and collect $200 smackeroos. Yeay!!! We get to have BODIES !!!! Whoo-hooo!

Eat a little bit. Now GO PLAY!!!

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: kimmers
Date: 26 Oct 00 - 12:33 AM

WW, that's one of the healthiest bits of commentary I've read in a long time! You said it!

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 26 Oct 00 - 10:55 AM

It's the only thing that works for me. I love food, and the minute I start thinking "diet," I want a big gob of something forbidden. So I just let myself enjoy my food, but make the bargain with my body that I'll let it go out to play as often as I can ... And, as Chanteyranger said, drink fountains of water.

Of course, that leads me to "Skip to the Loo" a great deal, but THAT's another issue ...

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: kendall
Date: 26 Oct 00 - 11:01 AM

There is only one sure fire way to lose weight. If it tasts good...spit it out.
Seriously, if you can stand it, one great way is to drink a full glass of ice water before meals. Not only does it take up room in your stomach, but, the ice cold water makes your body burn calories to bring the temperature back up to normal.
By the way dear, MY body is not a Scottie..it's a Rotweiller.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Oct 00 - 11:49 AM

I'm really wanting a slice of cheesecake right now, with some raspberry sauce on it, and an Irish coffee on the side. Who's with me?!!?!

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: Pseudolus
Date: 26 Oct 00 - 04:32 PM

Any "diet" taken to the extreme has the potential to be bad for you and the Atkins diet certainly is no exception. My in-laws both went on a "plan" of sorts that essentially counted all of the food groups and it encouraged balance. They slowly but surely lost around 50 lbs EACH and it has stayed off because their eating habits keep them in balance. You can't cut out all carbs, your body needs them, you can't even cut out all fat, your body needs a certain amount of that as well. If you give your body balance (and excercise along the way) it will find its natural weight.

The Atkins diet scared me because it discouraged things like fruit! Fruit, bad?!?!? High sugar content I was told. Then the same guy, who admittedly is a little fanatical about the Atkins diet, said that Aerobic excercise is not good either. "If you're gonna do that", he said, "You need to eat a few extra carbs". Duh!!!! That was the day I decided to quit. I enjoyed the diet. I was never hungry, I felt good and I started losing weight. But with the horror stories I was hearing, I gave it up.

My humble opinion, Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 09:22 AM

Me, I go for the seafood diet.
I see food, I eat it!
(Clash of cymbals, roll of drums, runs for the wings
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: JulieF
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 10:57 AM

The thing that has worked for me in the last 6 months is to write everything down and have someone else cook your meals when you come home from work - I tend to stick to ready meals during the week ( with salads/ sandwiches at lunch time - proper meals at weekends).

Julie

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Atkins Diet??
From: GUEST,Atkins_fan_for_the_most_part
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 08:31 PM

I've had 5 children, and each time gained 35 to 55 pounds. After each baby's birth, I would lose 10-12 pounds within the first week (7 to 8 being baby of course!), leaving me feeling fat and unattractive at a whopping 155 to 172 pounds (I'm 5 ft 3 inches).

The only diet that got the weight off each time was Atkins. All others left me feeling starved 90% of the time. Within 6 to 10 months, I was back between 130 and 135 pounds following the diet, much more manageable, and went from size 16 dress following delivery, down to 8 or 10, depending on style and cut of the clothes. My blood pressure would stabilize, not go up.

I hate exercise and sit at my computer alot. After I had my last baby, I followed Atkins again, and lost more weight sitting down and being sedentary, eating protein whenever I was hungry, than my husband did who ate carbs and ran every day to lose weight. He lost 20 pounds during the same period that I lost 30. :)

I continue to be in good health, fluctuating between 130 and 135, depending on whether or not I eat too many carbs. If I eat one ice cream, and step on the scale in the morning, I gain 2 pounds. So in that respect, your body becomes adjusted to a low amount of carbs, and when you want to splurge on a high-carb snack on occasion, you know you have to do all protein the next day to lose the weight again. Though in this type of situation, I am sure it is mostly water weight, because how can eating one ice cream cone with maybe 600-700 calories tops, equal 2 pounds of weight in less than 24 hours?

Also a side effect is constipation (though flatulance definitely is reduced! :) ). You can't drink prune juice because it is has natural sugar carbs in it, so you end up using senna or Fibercon or some such to counterbalance the lack of fiber in the diet. This does concern me, because I believe most illnesses are caused by bad parasites that live in the intestines and begin to gravitate to other organs. If the intestines get sluggish, I believe this can begin the chronic disease. See Hulda Clark's important work in her book "The Cure For All Cancers" - http://www.curecancer.com