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BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 09 May 12 - 01:43 AM "Do your own homework!" Yeah, that's the cop-out I expected. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 09 May 12 - 08:49 AM I believe the "homework" comment was aimed at me, Don, for suggesting that GfinS do homework on debunking the right wing propaganda that puts the increase of deficits on Obama... Reality is that these deficits were predicted going back to 2006... Had Obama not been forced to extend the Bush tax cuts (remember that little hostage taking) then Obama would have actually reduced the anticipated deficits by $700B... But, of course, the GfinSs and Tea Baggers of the world don't do reality because it's easier to just parrot bumper sticker BIG lIES... And the beat goes on... And on... And on... Huxley would be amazed to see that the Epsilons are close to running the entire show... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 May 12 - 09:40 AM Don: "Yeah, that's the cop-out I expected." Cop out to what???? If you go back and read the last part of this thread...if ANYBODY should read the last part of this thread..you guys are coming unglued, and working yourself up into senile frenzy...I'm just reading this thing..Bobert is 'determined' that I'm a right winger, and Don, you are really discrediting yourself, with your usual, and predictable irrational convulsions. What is it with you guys???....Go back and read it......you may even think about apologizing for embarrassing yourselves. Unbelievable!! BTW, I'm NOT reading any commentary, right wing or left, just the texts of the bill, and the first bill, and the supplements to the bill. I have NOT commented on the bill, itself, but only asked for either one of you to clarify things you made in your posts, that, instead of an simple answer, you give us your spasmodic political seizures. Take a look....'read 'em and weep'. No matter how many times, I, or someone else tells Bobert, that I'm NOT into either party's politics, WHICH I'M NOT, he insists that I am, over and over again....and over and over again, and over and over again. Don, who occasionally shows some cognizance, then projects this venom, that he bit himself with. Are you guys really right wing shills, trying to portray 'liberalism' as a severe mental disorder? ...'cuz you're doing quite a stand-up job ! Trying to be respectful! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 09 May 12 - 10:14 AM Im not determined that you are right wing, GfinS... I am just observing the arguments (and language) that you use and they seem to have one thing in common: Karl Rove's fingerprints... Nor am I coming unglued... Heck, I'm married to the P-Vine... I'm tough - lol.... As for your assertion that you are not of one party or another??? That's between you and your conscience... For someone who constantly plays the "Both Sides Shuffle" (pick your own key) you certainly are very adept at parroting Republican propaganda, including it's centerpiece "both sides" BIG LIE... An article was written just two weeks ago by respected political writers... one represented a the right leaning think tank and the other a left leaning and their conclusion is that the problem with our government is on the Republicans... I even posted it but I doubt you bothered to read it because it ain't in what ever key you are doing the "Both Sides Shuffle" in... As for liberals and "mental disorders"??? That's exactly the kinda stuff that I read every night at the Washington Post discussions that have been posted by the most hateful of the ObamaHateBrigade... Attack the messenger... Yes, I'm a liberal and there is nothing that I have posted here that suggests anything but educated liberal opinions/observations... Certainly nothing that suggests any mental disorder so might as well stuff that dog back in the cage 'cause he won't hunt... But, hey, as per usual, GfinS... Your posts are entertaining... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: John P Date: 09 May 12 - 10:31 AM Is there any chance at all that you all would talk about the issue at hand instead of each other? Here is my assessment of the health care law: * Deeply, ruinously flawed as soon as Medicare for all was scrapped. I'm a left-wing person who has never liked the current health care law for this reason. * As usual, a bad compromise with the right wing in order to get SOMETHING done. We get some better behavior from insurance companies and they still get all our business, at whatever rates they want. Have you ever tried to negotiate with an insurance company on the details of the contract? Free market, my ass. * Something the right wing gets to yell "Socialism!!" about, ignoring, as usual, the lack of logic of what they are saying. * We have an economic system that evolved to give health care only to those who have jobs and then we allowed our biggest employers to ship most of the jobs to other countries. Since these big employers clearly do not have the best interests of the American people - or our economic system - at heart, we have to pass laws to force them to behave. It's too late already, of course, to do any real good on the job front, but at least we now get to keep our insurance if we change jobs. * Anyone with a brain knows we will have single-payer health coverage within the next few years, since nothing else works at all. I just wish the right wing would get out of the way and let us get on with it. Do they really think they can hold back the clock indefinitely? * There seem to be two definitions of the word "civilized" floating around. The American right wing defines it as their version of American society, which not even most Americans get to share in. The rest of the Western world defines the U.S. as uncivilized, partly because we don't take care of the health of our citizens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Little Hawk Date: 09 May 12 - 12:02 PM "Is there any chance at all that you all would talk about the issue at hand instead of each other?" AMEN! Good comments, John. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 May 12 - 12:38 PM Little Hawk, beat me to the punch..John, that is truly one of your better posts! Though I could beg to differ on a couple of points, I wasn't going to, till I finished this thing. It's a LOT of reading!!!!...and deciphering the 'legal-speak'...but it's getting done...... At this point, I wasn't even going to comment one way or another...in all fairness..and as NOT to get distracted! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 09 May 12 - 12:59 PM John P, First of all, just about everything you have stated I have also stated at one point or another... Where we disagree is that I believe we needed something - anything - even if it isn't perfect to jump start our nation's ability to try to fix a problem... The Affordable Care Act is a start and, sure, I have said over and over that we will one day join the current century with a single-payer system... I have even predicted that by 2025 it will be in place... There are some little known provisions in the ACA that are good... One that gets no public attention but is the reason that the health care insurers have thrown $100Ms at the Tea Party is that they will have to pay out 85% of the premiums in actual health care folks brought into the program... The health care insurers hate, hate, hate this provision... Medicare operates with less than 2% administrative costs yet the insurance companies are sickened at making 15%??? Where the hell else can you get guaranteed 15% on your money??? They won't tell US just how bad they are sticking US now but its alot!!! That one provision by itself will reduce costs... Here's another aspect... If you have insurance the provider and the insurer have set reimbursement rates for various procedures, right??? So if you have insurance then your insurance company pays $1000, for instance, for a endoscopy and everyone is happy... If you don't have insurance - or have a high deductible - the cost for the same procedure is $2700??? Under the ACA with everyone insured that endoscopy is going to be $1000 for everyone... Bottom line: reduced cost of health care... Like I have said, the ACA ain't perfect but it's better than nothing and is a small step forward for a very backward thinking nation... As for the bickering??? Yeah, I could do without it... I would much rather be talking ideas and policy then having to defend myself from being mentally ill or whatever for the crime of paying attention to stuff and reading long articles in Washington Post daily so I have knowledge of what is going down... In other words, being educated... I know, horrors!!! An elitist!!! An eastern pinhead liberal!!! LOL... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 09 May 12 - 03:15 PM One last answer to GfinS, then back to the subject at hand. I DO know quite a bit about the National Debt and the Budget Deficit (which many people assume are the same thing, but they are not). And I come up with figures that are considerably different from those you are claiming. And the way YOU are framing it, you make it sound like Obama himself embezzled at least a trillion dollars. That's asinine! Right Wing newsletter stuff! #### I agree with John P.'s frustration and that Medicare should just be expanded to cover everyone. This is the way many countries who have the best health care coverage—and the best health care—do it. But I also agree with Bobert in that the Affordable Care Act is a step in the right direction. But— The idea that if one isn't in a situation where coverage is provided, they must BUY it themselves is a) unfair, and b) a sop to the health insurance companies. The ACA has at least knocked a few bricks out of the Republican wall. We just have to keep banging away at it until it crumbles. But if we let people like GfinS, and our resident Canadian kibitzer persuade us that the Powers That Be are TOO powerful, "the fix is in," and that there is nothing we can do, then we ARE screwed! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 09 May 12 - 03:52 PM Yeah, Don... The National debt and budget deficits are one of the right's favorite things to push because their PR people fully understand that most people don't understand economics and so they feel they can throw as much twisted BIG LIES out there they want... Heck, if you have to educate people *and* debunk the lies it's all but impossible... I mean, we can't even have an academic discussion about the debt and deficits here because lotta folks are so clueless about facts *and* basic economics that they will fall back to their default propagandized bumper sticker positions... First of all, I will once again state that the current budget deficits were built into the future going back to 2006 and before... Economists predicted the current budget deficit *and* the national debt within 5%... Second, let's do some basic economics... We'll call this "Bonehead" Econ 001 (remedial, non credit)... Here's a single mom with three kids working living right at the poverty level of $22,400... Her expenses are $23,000 a year which allows for nothing but survival... She has borrowed a little here and and little there and currently is making minimum payments on the one credit card she has that has a $2000 credit limit... She has used up up her available credit... What should she now do with her paycheck??? A. Pay off debt... B. Use it to survive... The correct answer that this woman - who, BTW, has never taken an economics course - is B... Same woman receives a $2000 inheritance from here uncle's estate... Now what she she do??? A. Pay off her credit card debt... B. Save it... The correct answer is to pay off her credit card debt... Why??? Because all she has been doing is paying interest @ 20% APR+ and little principle and there is no where she can get that kind of return on savings... She might get 2%... This is why expansionary austerity isn't working in Europe and why it won't work here... You pay debt when you have a surplus and you borrow when you don't... Purdy simple concepts... I mean, even a chimp could learn it... But... ...seems that the Tea/FOX people ain't half as smart as that woman trying to survive with 3 kids... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 09 May 12 - 04:11 PM Well put, Bobert! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 May 12 - 06:41 PM Don Firth: "And the way YOU are framing it, you make it sound like Obama himself embezzled at least a trillion dollars." I never implied that. Your 'off the wall assumption' is idiotic....with all due respects. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 09 May 12 - 06:57 PM Shouldn't you "beep" when you back up that abruptly? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 May 12 - 09:20 PM Naw, I fart! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 09 May 12 - 11:13 PM Here's a tip, GfinS: Instead of asserting that my "assumption is incorrect," you have to resort to personal insults, like saying that my "assumption is idiotic." That is the sort of mind-set that prevents you from qualifying as a civilized human being. And, for that matter, ever being taken seriously. With all due respect, Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 10 May 12 - 08:15 AM In different times we wouldn't have to take people with fringe ideologies seriously, Don, but we are looking at one political party, the Republican party, which has become very intolerant of everyone else and is using vast sum$$$ of aging, angry white men's money to purge their party of anyone who doesn't goose-step to their fringe ideology... There's an interesting op-ed in this morning's "Charlotte Observer" by Senator Richard Lugar saying pretty much what I have just stated... The positions that GfinS's has made known here and the tactics that GfinS has employed against opponents is very much in line with the current Republican party... And seeing that we have a fringe that is well financed, regardless of the validity of their positions, puts us in a position where we have to take them seriously... This is not unlike what Germany went thru in the 30s... Hitler wasn't taken seriously until it was too late... The fact that the GfinS fringe does not have any particular use for facts, economic theory, history, science, etc. doesn't mean that we should take them lightly... What we have here is a few very rich people leading Epsilon Nation into revolt against moderate, tolerant, and problem solving governance... May be like splitting hairs here, Don, but I take GfinS and the gang he runs with very seriously... B~ Maybe splitting hairs her |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 May 12 - 09:01 AM You'd think history would have taught you something. The answers that we NEED, are NOT going to be found in promoting one political party over another...especially when both are owned and controlled, by the very multinational financial moguls at the top, who you claim you are against....and YES, that means YOUR party, too! Where do you think either party gets its bread? If you want to be 'free', be 'independent' in your thinking. If you want to be DIFFERENT, be EXCELLENT!......not an excellent liar, in their behalf~!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: John P Date: 10 May 12 - 10:44 AM Hmm, one party is in favor of gay civil rights and women's health rights. The other isn't. Repeated for the 100th time. Fuck off, Michael. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 May 12 - 11:24 AM You think????...I bet you think 'Obamacare' will pay for transgender operations and in vitro fertilization for homosexuals, too. Your turn! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 10 May 12 - 04:43 PM Quite possibly, once the kinks are ironed out. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 10 May 12 - 04:59 PM There were plenty of folks who wanted to be "different" and "free" in Germany in the 30's... How'd that turn out for them... Guess again, GfinS... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 10 May 12 - 05:02 PM Bobert, I agree. What GfinS says that is of any substance should be taken seriously because he parrots the extreme Right Wing line. But his rude manner of expression and the fact that he dodges or ignores direct questions indicates that he doesn't really understand what he's talking about and tries to cover his lack of real knowledge by throwing insults, hence he, personally, shouldn't be taken seriously as anything beyond a parrot. "Michael wanna a cracker?" Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 10 May 12 - 07:24 PM This is what these folks do, Don... They don't give a rat's ass about common courtesy/manners... "You lie!!!" "Hell no, we won't!!!" "Hang him!!!" So throw common civility out the window... But wait, there's more... Here's what else these people don't give a rat's ass about: 1. Facts 2. Science 3. History 4. Economics 5. The US Constitution 6. The law 7. Democracy 8. Civil rights 9. Humanity 10. The working class 11. Justice 12. The original FCC charter 13. Playing fair 14. etc, etc, etc.... They just think that with all those billion$$$ they can bring to bare on elections that they really don't have to give a rat's ass about anything they don't want to... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 May 12 - 07:45 PM ..and Don, what exactly is your version of the 'extreme right wing'?...ANYTHING outside your narrow minds??? I'm SO NOT right wing..I just don't buy into political rhetoric, as being much of the truth. You should know that, by now. Actually, I come from a place of being a musician, tired of good people being sucked up by political bantering...with smugness...it's absolutely asinine! Shit, I have to put up with the bullshit from both sides..and to THEMSELVES they make sense..what's so abnormal about that... Hey, pretty close to concluding my reading...well comparatively speaking. I'll give you my feedback...all I can say, at this time, is a LOT of avid supporters of this bill, may not be so warmed up to it...but that's for you to decide. Me, I'll just approach it blank..and see what it all says, and means..and why not? Anyway, have a happy day, you two...and John P, too. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 10 May 12 - 08:05 PM I'm glad you're trying to educate yourself, Michael. But judging from what you have been saying so far, I do tend to worry about WHAT you are reading. Even though Ayn Rand called her philosophy "Objectivism," there is nothing objective about it. And much of the stuff on the internet is suspect unless you know who they REALLY are. And even then, put brain in gear when reading it. And as far as YOU accusing US of being "narrow-minded" and "smug" and all the other low-class verbiage, DO give it a rest. It makes you sound like a brainless twit who has nothing to say BUT insults. In short, a troll. Just a helpful hint about how to make your way amoung civilized human beings. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 May 12 - 09:14 PM Don Firth: "And as far as YOU accusing US of being "narrow-minded" and "smug" and all the other low-class verbiage, DO give it a rest. It makes you sound like a brainless twit who has nothing to say BUT insults. In short, a troll. Just a helpful hint about how to make your way amoung civilized human beings." GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 10 May 12 - 09:32 PM Have it made into a sampler and hang it on your living room wall, then read it every day. First thing in the morning is best. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 10 May 12 - 10:27 PM Don's right... Nothin' civilized about your politics or your behavior, GfinS... In other words, a Tea-publican... Ain't no straw man here... You have shown your stripes... And while your music is pretty, your soul ain't... Square business... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 May 12 - 11:09 PM Bobert: "Don's right... Nothin' civilized about your politics or your behavior, GfinS... In other words, a Tea-publican..." There you go, again.....ridiculousness! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 May 12 - 11:16 AM So, in getting back TO the topic.....why ARE the Democrats bailing out of Obamacare? Maybe one of our ardent resident Democrats, offer a 'plausible' explanation.....beside, 'The Republicans MADE me do it!' GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST Date: 11 May 12 - 12:24 PM Just keep reading 'kay? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 May 12 - 12:31 PM 'Kay....I just took a little breather, from finishing it. In fairness, I noticed today, in our local paper, that the local hospital has received funds, from Obamacare....though it is really appreciated, I think it would be wiser, to wait till the Supreme Court gives it's decision, BEFORE, dispersing the funds. (Creates a conflict of interest)...and if it should be struck down, what about the funds?...in all fairness, you'd think they should be reimbursed. 'Kay, back to reading............ GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 11 May 12 - 12:52 PM Parts of the Affordable Care Act are already law and public policy... BTW, the Supreme Court is not deciding the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act but the "Romney-style" mandate... BTW Part B, I find it very interesting that The Paul Ryan plan for Medicare is not all that different in funding aspect of the Affordable Care Act... BTW Part 3, we are still awaiting GfinS's alternative program... lol... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Amos Date: 11 May 12 - 02:02 PM GFS: Yopur inspired generalization l acks a few grains of truth. I am a Democrat and I am not bailing out on health care policy. The law we have acheived, as the Vice President put it, is a big fuckin' deal. It serves as a beachhead for a more refined and even more viable system, not as a final and perfect model. Intelligent Democrats have seen and said this from the beginning. These sweeping idiotic generalizations of yours are not truthful, IMHO and are more aimed ast fomentation of discord than dialogue. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 11 May 12 - 04:20 PM "GfinS" and "discord" in the same sentence, Amos??? How can that be??? B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,999 Date: 11 May 12 - 05:44 PM Although I have no love for Obama, because of him millions of people now have access to medical help/treatment and cheaper prescription drugs. THAT is important. I would not care much if 75% of the American Congress were taken for a one-way trip to the bottom of a river, but Americans voted for what they have--mostly over-hyped ball-less wonders with fancy hairdos and fat bank accounts, accounts that grow exponentially once they get to Washington--and because they did vote for the they bloody well deserve what they've got. Obama has tried, despite the shit around him, he has tried. I certainly respect him for that. Not much more, but even if only for 'Obamacare', he's done more for poor people in the US than any other president in decades. imo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 11 May 12 - 06:10 PM Yes, brucie... He has... The opponents of the Affordable Care Act would must like 50,000,000 of their fellow citizens uninsured... I can't see their logic... First of all, without insurance they don't get health care early and that means ***more expense*** when they are really sick... But here's the kicker??? These folks "consume" over $100B a year in health care that they can not pay for... Who pays??? The rest of us do in higher costs... There is no logic, other than Obama hatred, for any of the arguements made by the anti-Affordable-Care-Act wackos... Not none logical argument... Just Tea/FOX noise and lots of it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 May 12 - 06:33 PM Judging by some of the sexual scandals based in Washington, they can't all be ball-less, can they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 May 12 - 12:30 AM Hey Hey!!..The gangs all here!!...Been reading.....Songwronger actually hit on a serious topic, but to look into that, you'd have to change the dialogue, instead of doing this political posturing, and scrapping over minutia, shouldn't the economy, and what the hell this lame duck Senate is going to pass...and hand over to the Republicans, should they win?..Also, the derivative market, which should plunge AFTER or Around election time, and how these events will co-inside,..and NDAA, and national turmoil...Jeez, remember that ol' bumper sticker, "What if they had a war, and nobody came?"....and the two sides, including a lot of you, are busy handing out invitations, to the mascaraed party?? Willing to 'fear and loath' your fellow countrymen, and mascarading as petty issues, compared to the BIG one??? That's what parties do...especially when they are controlled by the same string pullers. Oh well, back to reading...can't take time to debate the petty! Regards..yak later, gfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 12 May 12 - 01:56 AM Been drinking, GfinS? You're incoherent, and your spelling is even worse than it usually is. I've worked as a technical writer and editor, and even I can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say. I hope you're not planning on driving anywhere. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 May 12 - 04:14 AM Naw, I don't hardly ever drink..I'm just tired. Thanks for the heads up. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 12 May 12 - 08:53 AM Nothing was actually said, Don... But it was entertaining... Something about the derivatives market crashing... Hmmmm??? After yesterday's news from Wall Street I wonder how the GfinS's of the world can argue that we need less regulations in the financial market??? Oh well??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 May 12 - 11:56 AM Bobert, I suggest you get a little briefing in an area that you seem a little 'light' on. People are watching the stock market, the 'jobs report', the phony unemployment numbers, interest rates, etc etc to monitor how the economy is doing...all which have very little to do with it, these days. What will be the thing to watch for, is the derivatives and the derivative market...when THAT goes, THEN a mega collapse will happen. You may or may not fully understand this, but before you start running your 'anti this party or that group' rant, do a little looking into it. Get an understanding on derivatives, the phony, speculative, mythical money, that the banksters behind the scenes keep bullshitting people with; The collateral based on nothing except the prospect of more hot air.....you know, like politics. Not going to debate the merits or flaws of it, especially when you indicate that you need a little more education on it..so look it up. This is the 'engine of hope' that keeps the oppressors propped up, and the political machine deceiving people. Just check it out. (I just did you a favor, by pointing to the money trail...and the 'hope for money' trail. Maybe someone, without bias,(rolls eyes), can expound on it. I've got reading to do today.....anyway a series of events will lead to this, including the engineering of the 'big power play'.....and much blaming, along lines that really have little to do with it.... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: John P Date: 12 May 12 - 12:42 PM Yep, you're absolutely right, GfS. While we're waiting for our opportunity to do something about it, which party should we vote for in the next election? The one that wants to hand even more money to the bankers, or the one that wants to let us keep some of it? The one that wants to medically rape women, or the one that thinks peoples' bodies should be their own? The one that denies civil rights to the minority-of-the-day, or the one that actually believes in freedom? The one who thinks employers should own the employees, or the one that thinks employees should have some rights? The one that wants to force us to act like a perverted idea of Christians, or the one that believes peoples' moral and ethical choices should be their own? Huh? We're waiting for your answer . . . . What do we do about the bankers???? Tell us, please. What should we do at the next election?? We are awaiting your sage guidance. Really, if you can't tell the difference between the current crops of Republicans and Democrats, you are being purposefully blind. And unethical to the extreme. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 12 May 12 - 01:20 PM I fully understand economics, GfinS, and at one time was certified to teach it at the high school level... John, however, is correct... We know exactly what the Republicans will do with the keys to the car... They have shown to have no real understanding of economics... Or facts... Obama has had to dance with Wall Street to some extent in his 1st term... Political Reality 101... He won't in a 2nd term... BTW, if the Republicans are so smart about economics then why do they support "expansionary austerity"??? It is failing in Europe and is failing here... You want to create jobs and get this country going then get $$$ into the economy... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 12 May 12 - 03:16 PM I've known about derivatives for a long time. Hope mixed with an underlying greed for profit based on NO products or service. Pure vapor. In fact PBS's Frontline has been running a series for the past week or so on vapor-based speculation and what it's doing to world economies. The banks and investment companies KNOW it's a complete scam, but greed is so contagious that even THEY can't resist. This, of course, is one of the reasons the Right Wingers hate PBS so much. Their programs such as Frontline tend to tell you what's actually going on. And we can't have THAT!! There oughta be laws to prevent this kind of pseudo-fraud. In fact, I think there are several, but everybody ignores them. FDR's instituting of the Securities and Exchange Commission back in the Thirties was for the purpose of stuffing a cork into this kind of speculation, and it work! Until Ronnie Reagan, to the delight of the sharks in the financial swimming pool, castrated it. Reagan couldn't actually get it rescinded, so he appointed bankers and investment brokers to the commission. Classic "putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop." Hello 1929 all over again! Totally predictable! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 12 May 12 - 03:26 PM Bobert: "We know exactly what the Republicans will do with the keys to the car..." Exactly so, GfS. This is why I will be working for and voting for the Democrats in the coming election. I, frankly, don't have a helluva lot of faith in their brilliant management skills, but I'd rather have them blunder around and maybe knock over a light-pole or two than have the Republicans at the wheel, knowing that they will drive full speed over the edge of the cliff! It stinks, I know, but other than emigrating to Alpha Centauri II and trying to start all over again, it's the best we've got. So what's YOUR idea? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 May 12 - 05:50 PM OK!..this is where we do agree on something..HOWEVER, there is erroneous thinking going on, that the banksters, and their 'fraudulent pyramid schemes' have only infiltrated the Republicans. This is utter nonsense!..The biggest hurdle to overcome is that BOTH parties can't see beyond their ideological differences, to recognize that they(we) have both been 'had'! Obama is no more 'in charge' than Romney, Palin, McCain,...well any of them!!..They are mere figurehead PR puppets...Even Geithner, is quoted, saying as much, when he was in Europe..saying HE was in charge..and why shouldn't he think that..being from the IMF? So what we get, and argue about, and cause divisions amongst ourselves is the 'diversion and uproar' tactics..to keep people's eyes and attentions OFF the REAL story behind the 'politics'. None of ANY of this has anything to do with 'so-called civil rights'..but rather a 'restructuring after the Chinese model', (oh goody-goody?) that Rockefeller announced as the 'ideal model'!!!....well, I guess EVERYONE is 'equal' in a sweatshop....and it's NOT because they 'respect the differences'...either 'put out, what you're told to', or fuck off and die!!!....and that includes your 'health care'!!!!! THIS is what we are being led to...and this is why the political game in this country should NOT be believed!!...other than the FACT that BOTH sides have a hard time justifying their 'inconsistencies'!! Stop believing the 'made up to play on your emotions' bullshit!...and it's a HUGE list, of bullshit that, as decent people, who try to care, they got each side sincerely believing, that their side is right, and the other wrong! Music market ready! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 12 May 12 - 06:19 PM GfS, what you are not grasping is that we are not as ignorant as you seem to think we are, and apparently would even like us to be. And you're ducking the question again: What do you suggest we do? What's YOUR plan? If you're trying to sell a course of action that you think people should follow, now's your chance! So—WHAT? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 12 May 12 - 06:20 PM By the way, I'll be gone for much of the rest of the afternoon, so you have plenty of time to answer. Don Firth |