BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

Anecdotes about a limited sample does not sit well when making sweeping assertions about the belligerence or pacifism of stem versus humanity students as you should well know.
Had I dared make such an assertion the cabal would be on the case like rats up a drainpipe or all over it like a rather nasty antisocial rash.
After all yours was a blanket condemnation, albeit a limited sample.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:25 AM

oh no it wasn't...

So over reliance on pedantic abstract statistics is a better solution for society's needs and ills,
than intelligent considered critical humanist analysis and judgement based on personal experiences..

That certainly spotlights a significant divide between humanities and non humanities graduates...

The robots are taking over...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:27 AM

Welcome to a future of AI art, literature, and music...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:37 AM

Do philosophy majors read Aristotle, David Hume, or Friedrich Nietzsche any more?
Also anecdotal, but yes, based on my daughter's degrees. And also the 'A' level philosophy syllabus she taught.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:47 AM

PFR the linked study suggested “Science students do well in non-science courses, but non-science students have difficulty in science courses. Slaves of exactness find it easier to adjust to the inexact, though they may be disdainful of it, than those who think in the realm of the inexact when confronted with the exact.” Perhaps envy subtly contributes to liberal arts defensiveness against STEM
and
Political correctness has corroded the humanities and social studies, as recently noted by David Patten in The Federalist and last year by Harvey Silverglate in the Wall Street Journal. After rejecting their objective anchors in the academic canon of classical texts, these fields succumbed to passionate group thinking and sybaritic self-absorption. The arts have become a free-for-all, as witnessed by the plethora of departments categorized by identity politics and demands for “trigger warnings” for traumatized souls.
Houston, we have a problem!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

Yes.. but you'd expect right wing think tanks to say that...

New tory dream - Govt welfare departments run by AI algorithms,
programmed for compassion and empathy by Dominic Cummings...

"Science students do well in non-science courses, but non-science students have difficulty in science courses. "

btw.. at school I was consistently top of the class in Biology and English..

Not either / or one, or the other in polar opposition

it's known as being a balanced well rounded individual....

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:21 PM

"Not either / or one, or the other in polar opposition..."

Grrrr.. bugger that misplaced comma...

Not either / or, one or the other in polar opposition....

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM

Dominic Cumsock's weirdo scheme is just a blatant attempt at social engineering
by way of nastily prejudiced employment discrimination...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM

Pfr if you have any kind of technical job in the private sector you have to continually update your skills. Anyone with chartered status has to undergo continuing professional development.
I would suggest that D Cummins is making a perfectly rational decision to have technical jobs in government carried out by technically qualified people who will also have to undergo continual assessment.
Waffling with a humanities degree just ain't in the same league.Would you want a reactor run by a sociologist. or heaven forbid, a teacher? If the civil service unions do not like it we know who will win that war. Mighty Maggie showed the way
We have just had a general election that made clear the electorate desire to have the government of the day govern, not a bunch of rebels,
or unions. The future is bright, the future is Bojo!

Social engineering is what the left has done to the educational system.
Frankly I preferred the social engineering of the 11*. The latter provided clear benefits to those that took advantage.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM

How to avoid trolls? I know, simply ignore them. It irritates them intensely.
Let us see how the Labour loons are doing:
They have tabled a motion to delay brexit. Slow learners or what?
Jess Phillips launches bid to be next Labour leader saying she'll confront 'anybody in power' and claims the government FEARS her 340,000 Twitter following. I fear for her sanity if she believes that sh*t.
Another person is backing Abbot - a woman so far to the left that she refuses to wear right shoes! The length and severity of her son's charge sheet could cause her a few additional problems as well.

The Lib Dems seek to scupper Brexit AGAIN - this time with a public inquiry. Seems like another of Baldric's cunning plans to me.
Obviously it will go nowhere.Perhaps someone should update them on the recent election results. The remainiacs were largely culled from Parliament, and are now but a shoutie minority! But still making a nuisance of themselves. They simply do not understand their lack of a numerical advantage, probably because they are arts grads. Judging by his recent recruitment drive Dominic wont be making that mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 03:52 PM

Woman sez to her husband, me feet are bloody killing me. I can hardly walk. He looks at her and he sez, no wonder, you've got your shoes on the wrong feet. She sez, but these are the only feet I've got...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:37 PM

Should really put this on the joke thread but what the hell.

Two snakes are sitting in a glass tank at Belle Vue zoo.

One snake asks: Are we the type of type of snake that wraps ourselves around the victim and crushes, starves them of oxygen, and basically suffocates them before we eat them or are we the type of snakes that bites them and injects them with poisonous venom and kills them that way before we eat them.





Don't know says the other snake, why do you ask.




I've just bit me tongue sez the first.



I'll get me coat!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:26 PM

Dammit, Raggytash, that even made Mrs Steve laugh and that's a bloody tough ask is that!

Mind you, as you'd mentioned Belle Vue, it prompted me to read it to her in a northern accent. That helped...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:29 PM

(Wait for the backlash, Raggy...should we also discuss recipes, red wine and wild flowers...?)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 02:26 AM

Well between folks on my side of the political fence lecturing me who I mustn't talk to;
and mods deleting posts I considered to be making intelligent and serious points regarding UK politics,
in a UK politics thread...

why the f@ck not discuss frivolous trivia.
.. if we're not allowed to talk about anything more meaningful...!!!???

So then.. we are allowed one UK politics thread, providing we don't discuss UK politics in it...????

..anything else we need to know to avoid unnecessary confusion...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:40 AM

Since there are some comments sprinkled about here about the potential Labour leadership and a few names are now appearing, here are a few of my thoughts.

They need to get both the policies and the person right. To me, Rebecca Long-Bailey fails on both fronts. I cannot see her as naturally liked in Middlesbrough and Redcar: I have just returned from that area having spent New Year with relatives, and, no, I am afraid she is not a good fit.

Her policies are too Corbynista as well, as far as I can tell. I listened into a webcast during the election for the Labour 'door knockers' and during it McDonnell said where the free Internet idea came from. I think it very informative, so I repeat it here. They were in Colne Valley and talking with councils and local businessmen about attracting new businesses to the area. It seems they did not have too much difficulty getting potential new business to consider the area, but the Internet connection in the area is extremely poor. For a modern business that is a huge obstacle. Clearly, of course, Colne is not the only place with this issue. So they had - correctly - identified a block on new business. They had identified - correctly again - that Colne is by no means the only place where poor Internet might be blocking new business. They had also identified - correctly - that getting a fast Internet to these areas would be a great asset for getting the business they need.

And then they blew it by leaping to the idea that everyone, even with excellent Internet, should have it for free. It is, in my book, where ideology overrode actually finding a solution to the problem they had identified.

I think Rebecca Long-Bailey is too closely aligned to that way of thinking.

Keith Starmer, while not yet announced as a candidate, seems to be very popular amongst Labour members. I would find him very acceptable, and am convinced he would not make the Internet blunder. He may not be a natural fit with the Teesside area, but I don't think he would be an obstacle like Rebecca.

Jess Phillips probably wins hands down in the likeability stakes, and I think most voters would see her history of rejecting some the 'wilder Corbyn ideas' (as they are portrayed) as positive. Whether Labour members would is another matter, so I think she could well be rejected by the membership.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:55 AM

DMcG Jess Phllips has posted some fairly daft statements on twitter that make her credibility questionable. Starmer is probably regarded by Tories as the most dangerous. But do you really think Labour has any candidate that can climb out of the hole they presently inhabit? The cult of Corbynism and the outright rejection by the electorate of anything smacking of momentum means that at the moment they are in a vacuum. I am amazed corbyn is allowed to remain. His front bench performance is that of a goldfish out of water. He has turned his partyinto a rudderless, powerless laughing stock.
I for one demand a better opposition party than that!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM

Starmer is a man-in-suit, second referendum remainer bloke.. Spot the weaknesses. Jess is a great backbencher who would scare Johnson to death, but I can't see her as a uniter of the party. Lisa Nandy is great on Question Time but that's as far as it goes. Lightweight. I suppose I should like her more because she went to the same school as my sister. :-) Clive Lewis is an interesting character but his campaign isn't getting off the ground as yet. Emily Thornberry just comes across all wrong somehow. Frustratingly, Angela Rayner only wants to be deputy leader. If she were standing for leader I'd support her. Rebecca is strong but the baggage will always haunt her. Not sure about her yet, though she ticks all my leftie boxes. I'm edging away from her a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM

Serious question here with no political bias intended.

A few weeks ago I posted that according to official figure there were 1.2 million people unemployed.

Today I have seen reports that nearly 3.5 million people of working age have never been employed.

Does that mean that 4.7 million people are now currently unemployed?

I realise that SOME people are in the fortunate position that their partner earns sufficient to keep them both but the figure of 3.5 million who have NEVER been employed I find astounding.

Link

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:19 PM

Presumably they don’t count as ‘unemployed’ because, as they’ve never actually been employed, they’re not eligible to claim Unemployment Benefit?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:29 PM

From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM
Serious question here with no political bias intended.
A few weeks ago I posted that according to official figure there were 1.2 million people unemployed.
Today I have seen reports that nearly 3.5 million people of working age have never been employed.
Does that mean that 4.7 million people are now currently unemployed?
I realise that SOME people are in the fortunate position that their partner earns sufficient to keep them both but the figure of 3.5 million who have NEVER been employed I find astounding.

If you read the link in your post you will see that much (not given in figures) of this is about 16-17 year olds who have never had a Saturday job (or, presumably a paper round) who are being included in the figures.
In the past these would have left school and been looking for, or have found, employment. Under recent changes to the age at which they are allowed to end education (unless they secure an apprenticeship or similar) they are now included as "of working age". It's not an increase in unemployment, it's a different way of viewing the figures.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM

That is why I am asking the question Nigel.

I realise that the way in which the figures are calculated have been doctored by governments of all persuasions to decrease those classed as "unemployed"

I also know that the age of legal employment has been raised.

However you do not address, or answer my question, which was are the 1.2 million (plus) registered as unemployed part of the 3.4 million who, seemingly have NEVER actually been employed.

I have to say though that I am a tad surprised by this figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM

Well there are the truly unemployed. The way the figures go, there are far fewer of them than, say, under Thatcher. It's quite important to recognise that "unemployment" has been massaged by all governments for decades. Do you mean just those on jobseekers? Or do you include those without jobs who don't qualify for jobseekers? Do you include the hundreds of thousands who are phoned up every week to be told there's no work and no pay today? How does it go for seasonal workers? What about those young people on fake apprenticeships that involve putting the kettle on and sweeping up after everyone else has gone home? Gig economy - how do we count those when sometimes they work, other times they don't, for sure never getting sick/maternity/holiday pay? How about those on ESA who are routinely hassled by jobcentres and sanctioned at the whim of inhuman jobsworths? Thatcher managed to convince us that unemployment was not rising by putting hundreds of thousands of people thrown out of industrial jobs in steel, the mines and other industries on to "incapacity benefit" when most of them were more than fit for work.

Unemployment statistics are a huge lie. Look for yourself behind the numbers. If employment was so healthy, there would be no-one sleeping rough, no food banks and no-one struggling with rent arrears.

This is the culture promoted by a decade of Toryism. We are told the lie that there are more "in work" than ever before. What they don't tell us is how many of those "in work" are in work today and out tomorrow, or next week. They don't tell us how many in-work people, "in work" by their measure, can't pay their rent or who have to go to food banks. It's a useful lie to tell, because if we are all doing so well the Tories can manage to cut taxes for the rich. You know how it goes...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 20 - 03:47 PM

That is why I am asking the question Nigel.
Then in answer to the question: are the 1.2 million (plus) registered as unemployed part of the 3.4 million who, seemingly have NEVER actually been employed.
The answer has to be that it is impossible to say without having a view of the underlying figures, and even then you'd probably need some form of a Venn diagram to explain the results.
To start, with 8.2 million pupils in school, it would be a reasonable (first approximation) estimate that with school age 4-18 then 2/14 of that number (1.17 million) are 16 & 17 year olds. With the great fall in youth employment (paper rounds etc.) this would be a good start toward the figures quoted.
The figures would also include young mothers who left school to immediately set up home.
I will avoid taking this as anything other than a question with no political bias, although Steve Shaw wants to swing it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jan 20 - 05:48 PM

There is not much point in trying to score political points when it comes to unemployment. It reached an all time low in 1973 under Heath, and an all time high under Thatcher, and now is at an all time low. Is unemployment the result of deliberate government policy, boom and bust economic cycles, internal or external forces or a combination of all? Each party has been guilty of massaging unemployment figures to the extent the raw figures are meaningless when taken in isolation.
"The UK unemployment rate fell to 3.8 percent in the three months to July 2019, back to its joint lowest since the October to December 1974 period and slightly below market expectations of 3.9 percent." Source
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate
In the EU-28 in 2018, there were on average 3.4 million unemployed persons aged 15-24 and 22.4 million persons of that age group in the labour market, according to the EU labour force survey. This gives a youth unemployment rate of 15.2 %.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
For the UK the rate is 11.2%, Spain 33%

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:30 AM

I wonder which bit of "I realise that the way in which the figures are calculated have been doctored by governments of all persuasions to decrease those classed as "unemployed" he didn't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:39 AM

A pure example of trolling by raggy. Will it be deleted?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:25 AM

If you consider it trolling, why do you not follow Mudcat advice and ignore it? In the same way that your trolling and flame bait posts are ignored by others.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:46 AM

Anyway back to my original question.

How is ANY government allowed to claim that "only" 1.2 million people are unemployed when another figure would indicate that 3.4 million have NEVER been employed.

Is the total figure in fact 4.6 million people unemployed.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:15 AM

Anyway back to the thread and the great unravelling that is the Labour party( A joy to behold indeed)
Good to see the rejoiner Jess Phillips has been forced to backrack and admit her party must accept the result of the EU referendum - despite previously saying she would campaign to rejoin the EU.
She will make a good shoe in for compo. He could not make up his mind either. I would applaud her election, Churchill had a mere two decades in the political wilderness. How many will Ms pushme pullmeo generate?
It is pertinent to point out that this silly woman was elected in a huge vote leaving constituency. I fail to understand how they elected her, given her stance.However some always fall through the cracks, although how she managed to fall through a crack will be forever a mystery to me. Perhaps it is the madness that is crowds.
The news also explains that the mighty Bojo has a report on his desk to dismantle the Lords. I hope he is very careful about unintended consequences such as that of creating a supreme court and the fixed term parliament act. I have no doubt DC has it all carefully planned. I suspect forthcoming legislation will put the Lords up against a wall, as they cannot veto government legislation.(since the parliament act of 1911) Exciting times for UK democracy and the regaining of sovereignty by taking back control
I see the United states of Europe is most disunited over it's response to the recent Trump foreign policy action. The European Union’s foreign affairs chief, Josep Borrell, issued a personal invitation to his counterpart in Tehran in a bid to de-escalate the tensions in the Middle East. But key member states – Germany, France and the departing United Kingdom – refused to shed a tear for the death of General Soleimani, the second most influential man in Iran.
Good to see the EU federal foreign policy decisions are off to a cracking start.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:48 AM

"But key member states – Germany, France and the departing United Kingdom – refused to shed a tear for the death of General Soleimani, the second most influential man in Iran."

An article in the press today:PM calls for restraint

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:00 AM

I thought BoJo was in hiding. I guess they must have found him. Was he in the fridge?I

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:53 AM

“I have no doubt DC has it all carefully planned.”

Hilarious, coming from one of those wazzocks who loudly and regularly denounced the EU because ‘it is run by unelected bureaucrats’!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM

Hilarious, coming from one of those wazzocks who loudly and regularly denounced the EU because ‘it is run by unelected bureaucrats

Even more hilarious coming fron a leftard that does not understand the parliamentary process. Do you seriously believe ministers draft legislation or do ministers and advisors? Having drafted it, it must pass scrutiny by both chambers and be successfully voted into law.
Restricting the vote to the mentally agile has much to recommend it.

Meanwhile as if labour does not have enough tribulations, good old guido has uncovered another labour candidate that will create yet another investigation into labour by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
Labour’s Chetan Harpale has in the last few months tweeted about “Londonistan“, the ‘so-called peaceful religion’, and shared a message calling Pakistani Muslims “a stain on this planet.”
He is the candidate for the safe Labour ward of Alperton, for a by-election on 23 January. For how much longer I ask myself?
Here is the link for the lefties to chew over:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/06/labour-candidate-shared-message-calling-pakistani-muslims-stain-planet/#disqus_thread

and for those concerned about dodgy statistics on unemployment here is the original document from the hoss's mouth rather than it's arse:
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2020/01/Never-ever.pdf
Perhaps the author's were humanity grads. When the Royal Statistical Society recently tested the ability of honourable members to answer a relatively simple mathematical question.
if you spin a coin twice, what is the probability of getting two heads?* 53% of tories got it right, and despite copious quantities of mathermagic 77% of Labour got it rong.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:42 AM

So, um, *were* any kept? Campaign promises, I mean, not politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:53 AM

They've not been in power a month yet Mrrzy, however there were indications in the first week that pledges are to be ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:12 AM

The main one, Mrrzy, was the pledge to leave the EU with an "oven ready" deal. In the first week that was put in doubt by making any extension to leaving illegal. This means that if no deal is reached in time we will leave without a deal. Of course we all hope that a good deal will be achieved and there is time yet but it does show that BoJo's statement that he had a deal already was a lie. Everyone seemed to know that he is a pathological liar but voted for him.anyway. As they say, there's nowt so queer as folk!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:30 AM

”Even more hilarious coming fron a leftard that does not understand the parliamentary process. Do you seriously believe ministers draft legislation or do ministers and advisors? Having drafted it, it must pass scrutiny by both chambers and be successfully voted into law.””

I understand the parliamentary process very well thank you. It’s you Brexit-Bumpkins who failed to understand that similar, almost identical processes exist in the EU - hence the stupidity of your claims that we need to leave the EU because it is ‘run by unelected bureaucrats’.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I asked Leave-voters what they thought the House of Lords and the Civil Service were, only to be met with blank stares...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM

With luck before the end of the year we can have oven ready chlorinated chickens, unless the loser barrister, that clubs foxes to death, has a winning streak. No deal is a useful club to make the EU behave. German car makers would be most upset with no deal. Meanwhile let the moaners rewmoan. Since the election they are best ignored, no numbers equals no infuence- Good. After 3 years of leftie procrastination and sabotage the peoples majority vote of 2016 can now be respected.
I see to vote in the labour elections 25£ must cross palms. They obviously despise deplorables. Another vote winner for metropolitan labour. I suspect the labour wilderness is fast becoming off planet, the news just keeps getting better.
What did bojo say?Get brexit done:
What did labour say besides come away with the faeries? The electorate smote them mightily!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:45 PM

The main one, Mrrzy, was the pledge to leave the EU with an "oven ready" deal. In the first week that was put in doubt by making any extension to leaving illegal. This means that if no deal is reached in time we will leave without a deal. Of course we all hope that a good deal will be achieved and there is time yet but it does show that BoJo's statement that he had a deal already was a lie

That was not my understanding of the oven-ready deal. My understanding was that it was a deal acceptable to the EU, and for which Parliament would vote, thus enabling us to leave the EU (on 31 Jan). There will still be negotiations to see what future trading terms will be, but that will be after we are out with the oven-ready deal.
As such it is not a broken pledge, it is one that will be completed on time on 31 Jan 2020.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:51 PM

From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM
I see to vote in the labour elections 25£ must cross palms. They obviously despise deplorables. Another vote winner for metropolitan labour.

What a coincidence, £25- could also get you membership of the Conservative Party (Under 23s £5-, Armed Forces £15-).
If someone's going to spend £25 wouldn't it better to spend it joining a winning team?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:38 PM

I think Mrrzy is quite capable of making up her own mind Nigel. The fact remains that the GAP has told so many lies it has become necessary to doubt his every word. I do hope he does have a deal lined up but until the ink is dry, I will not believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:51 PM

Nigel. Ideology outrules common sense.
Labour is almost skint. They want to lay off most of their payroll. The unions say no. The unions also heavily bankroll Labour.
Everything labour touches of late has turned to ashes. How sad! It is also pertinent to point out that should the Equality and Human Rights Commission find labour guilty of antisemitism then it is likely the resultant lawsuits will totally bankrupt the party. If there are any sensible labour MPs left after the recent cull they would be wise to split and form another party and leave corbynites and momentum in the wilderness where they belong.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:02 PM

I've put this in the war thread as well. The attack in Iran has potentially nobbled the UK's pledge to "take back control." Trump has form. You can bet your life that the UK getting onside with the US over Iran will be an absolute condition of our getting a trade deal. We will go cap in hand to Trump. Hey, brexiteers, did you see that on your ballot paper? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:14 PM

Why do we bother keeping up the pretence that Britain is a democracy...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:39 PM

"should the Equality and Human Rights Commission find labour guilty of antisemitism"

.. and I'd prefer a new labour leader who has backbone to stand up and fight back
against malicious false accusers...

I just found an old photo of my Polish Jewish family lines's entire community
being rounded up for deportation and extermination
by the nazis...

Now that was real anti-Semitism...

The kind of anti-Semitism still most likely to be ingrained in the worst far right tories...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Mossback
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:40 PM

Now here's something else that belongs in two threads: Who is the bigger lying sack of shit and threat to democratic government world-wide: Trump or Johnson??

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:06 PM

The correct answer to that, Bill, is "yes." :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:37 PM

The UK is a democracy; with more cameras watching people than people watching cameras, secret police, odd elections, a slow steady transposition of values, useful clown heads of state and a polarized population. You know like the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:28 AM

Why do we bother keeping up the pretence that Britain is a democracy...???
OH dear oh dear. Yet another whining remainiac loser.

Democracy was restored in the UK when the rebels and traitors became chlorinated turkeys in time for Christmas, after a thorough trouncing in the polls. As a result Bojo could finally honour his promise "to get brexit done" by way of a landslide majority. Democracy restored.
The prosecco kid is obviously still sore that after all his hubris he lost.

There is a God in Heaven