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BS: Civil War Buffs - Question
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Subject: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 15 Aug 01 - 07:44 PM I have been to some really good sites, including THIS ONE, trying to find info on another ggranddad, this one fought on the Confederate side. His name was Abram Forsythe and he came from West Virginia. I found him listed on the 1860 Census in Mt. Cove, Fayette County, WVA. My question to all of you re-enactors and history buffs is do any of you know of a site which lists ALL soldiers of the Civil War/War of the Rebellion? Or, of any other resources on or off line which might be of help? I have posted some queries but not received any bites, so I thought with your collective experience there might be some good suggestions.:-) Also, just to get the music in, too....anyone know of any songs from that era that would be from that region, i.e. West Virginia? THANKS! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 15 Aug 01 - 07:46 PM Forgot to say, I am a subscriber to one of the more known genealogy websites and so, have access to much more than the general public. If any of you would like me to look something/one up, I'd be happy to exchange info for info.:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Aug 01 - 10:20 PM KatLaughing is making a generous offer. I have been going through all of the sites trying to fill in some of my family background. About Civil War soldiers, I do know that there is NO complete listing. I have been typing up handwritten muster papers for a NY Company of Volunteers so that I can submit the names and their origins to the sites. Information is terribly scattered. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:08 PM I think I have found some of the info I was looking for, but I'd still be happy to help anyone who might need a few quick lookups, you included Dicho. Good for you for helping. It is amazing how much info is out there all due to so many willing volunteers! Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:19 PM KatL, I broke to get the title of an album that I consider the best on the Civil War. The musical instruments used are all period, Southern as well as Northern music is played. All of the bugle and drum calls are included. The album has been reissued on Mercury: The Civil War, The Music and its Sounds, Frederick Fennell and the Eastman Wind Ensemble. Truly engrossing and with an excellent booklet. I don't know of any WVA music that is definitely tied to the Civil War (War between the States, War of the Rebellion) period. The bands and troops on each side had their partisan music but also many songs that were common to both sides such as Goober Peas (Southern, but quickly picked up by the Union soldiers). Songs like Juanita, The girl I left behind me and many others were sung by all. Dr Cox, "Folk Songs of the South" (nearly all collected in West Virginia) has a few war songs which may be variants known only in WVA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Mad4Mud Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:28 PM Kat, I'm sure you've seen a lot of Civil War roster sites. I like this one. My husband has a lot of ancestors from WV (Kanawha area)who fought on both sides of the battle. I'm sure you probably know this from your research but the Confederacy did not recognize West Virginia as a state so you'll have to look under the state of Virginia for those soldiers. You will probably only find Union soldiers under the WV rosters. Good luck and if I find anything new during my own genealogical searches I'll let you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Aug 01 - 12:18 AM KatL, the site you highlighted has no NY or Illinois. Any reason? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,chrisj Date: 16 Aug 01 - 01:19 AM As a long-time resident of Australia I am always intreagued by the USA's Civil War and how bloody a conflict it apparantly was. Given the differences in the early history of the two countries I could not imagine the Aussies ever getting so worked up over any issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Kim C Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:56 AM Union records are usually easier to come by than Confederate records. State archives and the like may have some of that, or the local historical societies in the area you're studying. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:26 AM Mad4Mud, thanks, I didn't know that about WV not being recognised and I wondered why that site directed me to just VA rosters. I will go back and take a better look now that I know that. Thanks! Dicho, I hadn't noticed that about NY and IL. I have no idea why they are not included. You'd have to email the site admins and ask, I guess, but it is curious, isn't it? Maybe they just don't have the info put in, yet? Also, thanks for the music info. KimC, thanks, I have just started to look into this one this week and found the Natl. archives; will check with them and the local ones.Thanks. Anyone know any pertinent things about looking up vets of the War of 1812? That's my next project as I found written evidence that ancestors on both sides of the family were vets of that one, too, probably like most of us who've come from way back when through the years, eh? Thanks very much. I really appreciate it. kat
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Kim C Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:32 AM Have you looked at any of the GenWeb sites? It's been a long time since I've had time to trove through all that, but each state has a site with links to different records pertaining to that state. I was able to find out a lot of things that way! Even some counties have their own sites, which helps you narrow things down further. Most of what I have discovered about my ancestry was completely by accident. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,..gargoyle Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:36 AM Hey KUZ -
No wonder we "play together so well."
It appears we share the same great grandfather. (for you its a great, great one)
How Kewhl!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:37 AM Yeah, I have, Kim, thanks. So far I've not had much luck on them, except for an unkown bio of my ggranddad which was online! That was really neat to find and is the reason I have more to go on to find now. Thankfully I do have some time for this right now, so I expect I'll figure it out and it will probably be by stubbing my toe on a nugget and looking down to see what it was...quite by accident as you say.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:41 AM In yer dreams, garg! No golgarths in my family tree! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,Pete Peterson Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:52 AM Not too much help on genealogy-- sorry. On songs & music, best ones I know are the "97th Regimental String Band" which has about five CDs out which are pretty wonderful. (one of the members is Phillip Terry, alias VGO, a wonderful musician commited to re-enacting the Civil War & to being as close to "authentic period" as possible)best book is still IMHO Irwin Silber's Songs of the Civil War-- wonder if it's still in print. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 11:10 AM Thanks, Pete. From what I saw at Amazon, Dover has come out with a reprint in 1995. There are several of the 1960 reprints available, too. I also noticed one by him, listed in a google search as "Soldier Songs and Home Front Ballads of the Civil War." Different book? kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Aug 01 - 11:24 AM As Kim C suggests, there is a lot on the genealogical search sites. I have been checking back on a monthly basis and always find some new list to peruse. Some of the local lists give email addresses of volunteers who will check for you. I had Hales Index (CT) and the 1790 census checked this way. Sampubco in Salt Lake will furnish copies of wills, which can include useful data. 1810 census data is available for a price. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: wildlone Date: 16 Aug 01 - 11:56 AM kat, There is a lot of info on the ACW at this site Click here including rosters. dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,Mad4Mud at work Date: 16 Aug 01 - 12:03 PM Sorry for the thread creep but Dicho did you need NY and IL roster info? I have some great links but they are on my home PC. Do you want me to get them for you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 12:25 PM Dave, HOLY COW! What a great lot of links and info! Thank you very much! luvyakat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,Mad4Mud at work Date: 16 Aug 01 - 12:34 PM Kat, here's one more site to check out. Click here!. It is a lot to read but it might give you some regiment names to look up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,Walking Eagle Date: 16 Aug 01 - 01:58 PM Kat, NOW you're trampin' in my neck o' the woods! One song comes to mind, The Casto Hole. Purely WV Civil War. I can put the lyrics and dulcimer fret numbers on this thread, if you want. Just let me know via the thread. Hey! What's this stuff in the note just above mine? Sounds like unwanted advertising to me! Not welcome, thank you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 02:41 PM Walking Eagle, YES! PLEASE! I play dulcimer so that would be wonderful! Not sure which note you are talking about but I haven't seen any adverts in this thread? Mad4Mud, what a fantastic article! Thank you, I am going to print that one out! My eyes are going buggy looking at all of the genealogy data.:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Walking Eagle Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:26 PM Sorry Mad4, there was some spam type stuff in a note just after your note and previous to my first one. Apparently, Joe and his assistants spotted it and took it off. Something about making money everytime some site was visited or something. It was of course, put on by the ubiquitous GUEST. I'll hunt up my stuff tonight Kat and post it tomorrow. Kat, you may try the WV Dept. of Archives and see if you can find some more info on your ancestor. Any idee where he served? Was he in the Shenandoah Campaign with the WV Second against General Jackson? I hope not! Any info like that you can provide for them will make the job easier Be prepared to spend a little money for an archival search. That WV guv'mint is a might poorly these days! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:32 PM Thanks! I will know more once my neice goes into the trunk and looks. At this point all I know is we have a Union officer's cap and ball Colt that he found; that he was a scout who was frequently just one step ahead of the Union army as they came along, in fact we have a really funny story about that; and, that we have some of the Confederate money which was his; and, a document which was an official Pass for his wife to go safely through enemy lines. I will check with the state archives; soe of them don't seem to be as "hongree" as others.:-) Thanks, I really look forward to the song! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Walking Eagle Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:32 PM Sorry Kat, I just re-read your note and saw he fought for the Confederacy. WV Archives should still be helpful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:39 PM Thanks Mad4Mud, I have the data I need. I was pointing to the lack in a site. The one posted by wildlone is excellent. Walking Eagle, I would like to see the lyrics of The Casto Hole if it is not in DT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Walking Eagle Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:52 PM Hang on to that Colt Kat! I REPEAT HANG ON TO THAT COLT! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Aug 01 - 07:50 PM The NY 193 Vols served in the VA WVA MD area as the war was cooling down. Charleston, Gallipoli, Kanawha Valley WVA. Were some of the sites. I have some interesting letters about keeping the peace there. Where was Summit Point VA? Can't find it in the atlas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 08:03 PM I know, Walking Eagle!:-) Unfortunately, it is one the heirlooms I do not have. It is to go to my son or my sister's oldest daughter. They are both, however, every bit as worthy as me to caretake it, as they are both as interested in preservation as I am. It is my hope that some of the things we have may go to a museum some day as I am not sure any grandchildren will have the same kind of interest as our children do. We'll have to see. Dicho, according to www.mapquest.com, Summit Point, VA is near Lynchburg. I didn't zoom in, but the red star showed up between Lynchburg and Buena Vista, if I remember right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: GUEST,pdubu Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:35 PM Go to the NPS (national park service) and type in a battlefield site then click on to soilders, fine print. the data base is growing every day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Mad4Mud Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:46 PM Hi Kat, I'm back again with more. I have the Generations Family Tree program at home and it comes with several searchable indexes (one being the Civil War muster list). Here's what I found out about Abram Forsythe. There were four entries for that name but only one really made sense (the others were from Pennsylvania and Wisconsin). Abram Forsythe Unit: Hounshell's Batt'n Virginia Cava. Rank In: Private Rank Out: Private National Archives Microfilm Box, Roll, and Record: 000382, 0019, 00004381 Fought for: (U = Union, C = Confederate) C I hope this is the guy you are looking for! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 17 Aug 01 - 12:37 AM Wow, Mad4Mud, that's wonderful, I am sure it probably him! Thanks so much. I will check that against the papers we have. I thought it had said Captain, but I was just a kid when I read it last, so the one you found is probably right. Thanks so much!! I love the Mudcat and Mudcatters!! pdubu, I didn't know what battles he was in, so couldn't do it that way and I did search the site I linked aboce and he didn't show up. Thank you, though. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Lonesome EJ Date: 17 Aug 01 - 01:26 AM Mad4Mud, where was the site that you found that info on Abram? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Walking Eagle Date: 17 Aug 01 - 09:01 AM I can't seem to locate my song, The Casto Hole, right now. I'll keep looking when I'm cleaning house. I also have another song written by a WV soldier in the Shenandoah Campaign under Philip Sheridan titled Sheridan's Ride. MUST MAKE an effort to get all of these bits of paper on disc! Cuff head, cuff head! (@;->) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 17 Aug 01 - 09:49 AM That's okay, Walking Eagle, we can be patient.:-) Thanks, again. I look forward to either or both when you have the time and have found them. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 17 Aug 01 - 10:08 AM I don't think ths is the second one you mentioned, but it seems relevant anyway:
SHERIDAN'S RIDE
Up from the south at break of day,
And wider still those billows of war
But there is a road from Winchester town,
Still sprung from those swift hoofs, thundering south,
Under his spurning feet the road
The first that the general saw were the groups
Hurrah! Hurrah for Sheridan! About the author: Thomas Buchanan Read READ, Thomas Buchanan, poet, born in Chester county, Pennsylvania, 12 March, 1822; died in New York city, 11 May, 1872. His mother, a widow, apprenticed him to a tailor, but he ran away, learned in Philadelphia the trade of cigar-making, and in 1837 made his way to Cincinnati, where he found a home with the sculptor, Shobal V. Clevenger. He learned the trade of a sign-painter, and attended school at intervals. Not succeeding in Cincinnati, he went to Dayton, and obtained an engagement in the theatre. Returning to Cincinnati in about a year, he was enabled by the liberality of Nicholas Longworth to open a studio as a portrait-painter. He did not remain long in Cincinnati, but wandered from town to town, painting signs when he could find no sitters, sometimes giving public entertainments, and reverting to cigar-making when other resources failed. In 1841 he removed to New York city, and within a year to Boston. While there he made his first essays as a poet, publishing in the " Courier" several lyric poems in 1843-'4. He settled in Philadelphia in 1846, and visited Europe in 1850. In 1853 he went again to Europe, and devoted himself to the study and practice of art in Florence and Rome till 1858. He afterward spent much time in Philadelphia and Cincinnati, but in the last years of his life made Rome his principal residence. While in the United States during the civil war he gave public readings for the benefit of tile soldiers, and recited his war-songs in the camps of the National army. He died while making a visit to the United States. His paintings, most of which deal with allegorical and mythological subjects, are full of poetic and graceful fancies, but the technical treatment is careless and unskilful, betraying his lack of early training. The best known are "The Spirit of the Waterfall," "The Lost Pleiad," "The Star of Bethlehem," "Undine," "Longfellow's Children," "Cleopatra and her Barge," and "Sheridan's Ride." He painted portraits of Elizabeth Barrett Browning, the ex-queen of Naples, George M. Dallas, Henry W. Longfellow, and others. His group of Longfellow's daughters was popular in photographs. He turned his hand occasionally to sculpture, producing one work, a bust of Sheridan, that attracted much attention. He possessed a much more thorough mastery of the memos of expression in the art of poetry than in painting. His poems are marked by a fervent spirit of patriotism and by artistic power and fidelity in the description of American scenery and rural life. His first volume of " Poems" (Philadelphia, 1847) was followed by "Lays and Ballads " (1848). He next made a collection of extracts and specimens from the " Female Poets of America" (1848), containing also biographical notices and portraits drawn by himself. An edition of his lyrics, with illustrations by Kenny Meadows, appeared in London in 1852, and in 1853 a new and enlarged edition was published in Philadelphia. A prose romance entitled "The Pilgrims of the Great St. Bernard" was published as a serial. " The New Pastoral," his most ambitious poem, describes in blank verse the pioneer life of a family of emigrants (Philadelphia, 1854). The more dramatic and imaginative poem that followed, entitled "The House by the Sea" (1856), gained for it more readers than had been attracted by its own superior merits. Next appeared "Sylvia, or the Lost Shepherd, and other Poems" (1857), and " A Voyage to Iceland" (1857), and the same year a collection of his "Rural Poems" was issued in London. His "Complete Poetical Works" (Boston, 1860) contained the longer and shorter poems that had been already published. His next narrative poem was" The Wagoner of the Alleghanies," a tale of Revolutionary times (Philadelphia, 1862). During the civil war he wrote many patriotic lyrics, including the stirring poem of " Sheridan's Ride," which was printed in a volume with "A Summer Story" and other pieces, chiefly of the war (Philadelphia, 1865). His last long poem was "The Good Samaritans" (Cincinnati, 1867). The fullest editions of his "Poetical Works" were printed in Philadelphia (3 vols., 1865 and 1867).
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Mad4Mud Date: 17 Aug 01 - 10:59 AM Thread creep again! Lonesome EJ, it's not a site exactly. I have a PC program called Generations Family Tree and it contains 12 CDs to help with research. Some of those indexes are the Social Security Index, Marriage Record index, actual family trees, Civil War muster rolls, Medal of Honor Recipients for Civil War, WWI, WWII and Vietnam, Historic Records including War of 1812, Union Generals, Confederate Generals, Titanic Passenger list... It's not the ultimate research tool but sometimes it helps you get started in the right direction. Kat, if you heard Abram had been a Captain, please keep that in mind as the above guy may not be your guy. Or perhaps it is the right guy and he re-enlisted in a different unit and I don't have that information. Anyway, enjoy the researching. I always have fun trying to locate my own ancestors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 17 Aug 01 - 11:38 AM Thanks, Mad4, I will know after I hear back from my neice. I spoke to my dad this morning and he reminded me that Abram was "highly irregular" and acted as a scout most of the time. He also told me, before I was born, they had a set of books on the Civil War which had a picture of him...in a Union cap! I suppose he'd picked it up the same way as the gun. Sadly, I never saw the books and dad doesn't remember the name of them. I do have a picture of him, though, with his daughter and her husband, my great-grandparents, and my granddad when he was just a little boy, in front of the original log cabin homestead. Does your program have a roster for War of 1812? I am planning to write to the Natl. Archives on that one, but was just wondering. Abram's father, also named Abram, was supposed to be a veteran of that war according to a published bio of my great-granddad. This is a fun thread. Thanks everyone for participating. It's just great! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 17 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM This site: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~northing/index.html has one of the most extensive databases for military stuff that I've seen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Mad4Mud Date: 17 Aug 01 - 07:52 PM Kat, I tried Abram Forsythe and got no hits so then tried Abraham Forsythe and found the following in the War of 1812 records: Company: 5 REG'T (MCDOWELL'S) VIRGINIA MILITIA. Initial Rank: ENSIGN Final Rank: ENSIGN
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 17 Aug 01 - 11:23 PM Thanks, Mad4Mud. I think we were more on track with the other. Isn't Ensign a rank in the Navy? As far as I know we were "landlubbers" by then.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 18 Aug 01 - 12:06 AM There is also a VA Revolutionary War record for an Abraham. War 1812 was odd with regard to ranks, I have heard from others that they found supposed Navy ranks attached to non-swimmers. There was an Abraham in the Civil War also. Mad4Mud, you might check the Rev. War one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 18 Aug 01 - 12:22 AM OH! Sorry, Mad4Mud, I read that wrong! I didn't see the war of 1812! Thank you! It is entirely possible the spelling was mixed up. I've seen it both ways in family lore, but in my ggranddad's bio and obit it was "Abram," for both of them. Thanks, both of you, very much. Next to music, genealogy is one of my favourite things to do and learn about, esp. with friends! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 01 - 08:19 PM Just thought those of you who've been so helpful and enjoyed the genealogy stuff so much might want to take a look at the experimental forum Jon Freeman has kindly set up here. I am moderating a genealogy forum there. We are posting links, giving and getting tips and having a good time hearing about each other's successes. The idea was born form this thread, so thanks to all of you! Happy hunting! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 24 Aug 01 - 02:46 PM Here's a great descrption of some Civil War Spying in the Kanawha Valley. I htought some of you might enjoy reading it. I've also found out that my Forsythes moved from VA to Sewell Mountain, WVA, so I am getting somewhere. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: M.Ted Date: 24 Aug 01 - 04:45 PM Kat, reading through this from the top, the first thing that occurred to me is that he could have been an irregular--and bingo, you mentioned it-- West Virginia was the part of Virginia that stayed with the Union, at least on paper--hearts and minds were a different thing, and though for years it had been claimed that most of WVA soldiers went with the Union--it is now figured that they went about half and half, with many of the "Confederates" actually never being mustered into the Confederate Army, istead fighting with Militias or irregulars, such as the famous "McNeill's Raiders"-- WVA was truly split, and apparently, there were many who fought for, or at least had ties to both sides--the evidence that you have points in the direction that Abram Forsythe had been in this position--The involvement of WVA troops in Union efforts was often limited due to concerns about loyalties-- West Virginia, and West Virginians, have often the subject of derisive jokes, quite possibly a result of the reputation that they gained from being in this unfortunate situation-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Civil War Buffs - Question From: katlaughing Date: 24 Aug 01 - 11:34 PM Thanks, M. Ted, I didn't know that. I did find some info from an obit for him which says he actually did join the Confederate Army "at first call and remained until the surrender at Appomatox." He then left VA for MO, then to Indian territory, then to CO, where his daughter and my ggranddad met and married. When my dad called him "irregular" I am sure he meant as far as the scouting and spying went, and some of what you've mentioned, too. His obit also says, "His first vote was cast for secession; his last for W.J. Bryant." :-) Thanks, again, kat Have you all checked out the genealogy forum at Jon's forum? We're getting some great links etc. posted in there. |