New guitar £500 budget

Subject: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:17 AM

Hi everyone,
I am currently playing a Crafter J15 Jumbo with solid cedar top, which has served me well for some years now.
I have now saved up around £500 and am looking for my next step up.
I love the mellow tone of the cedar top and the depth of sound from the jumbo body.
Can anyone recommend anything better than my Crafter for around £500?
Many thanks
Jon

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:24 AM

If , and already played in. From what you say a Lowden 010C would be perfect (I've had one for 12 years and wouldn't swap it for anything else). It's a big box with an amazing tone in all tunings - think of the guitar equivalent of Guinness. Not sure if you'd get one for £500 but you might get one for £6-700.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:25 AM

Hey, what went wrong there? Meant to say, if I were you, I'd go for a second hand one - better quality at less money, and already played in.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:28 AM

Well I love Faith guitars (last year I bought five of them!). Faith did something weird last year, the skipped all their Series One and I bought them off e-bay at ridiculous prices) but try a Faith Jupiter (which is a jumbo, solid engelman spruce top and solid mahogany back and sides) the electro is the Jupiter eclipse Jumbo.

The eclipse ones are not solid wood apart from the top.

I think they're just beautiful - even if you have to pay full whack, they are well within your price range.

I really can't think of a guitar I would swap them for.

Yamaha have a LD range coming out in January, which looks as though its going to be something special, but the solid wood ones are two grand.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:30 AM

Taylor 310 here
G.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 09:31 AM

Godin builds some great cedar top guitars at bargain prices. It's brand names are Norman, Seagull, Art & Luthrie and Simon & Patrick.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 10:23 AM

Why not go onto the Acoustic Magazine website www.acousticmagazine.com. You can access their reviews.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 10:34 AM

Thanks everyone, for your kind assistance.
I'll follow up on all these suggestions.
Regards
Jon

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: PeadarOfPortsmouth
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 10:49 AM

Possible lead for you...although I don't know a lot about them (ie whether they make cedar tops or if they're available in the UK).

I've started seeing a few Blueridge guitars showing up around here. Seems to be the guitar people take to a session when they want to leave the Martin at home.

Nice sound and good action (tried a friend's) and I believe their mid-range models are about US$500...which is in your approximate pricing (haven't checked the exchange rate today. ;-)

Peter

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Splott Man
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 11:16 AM

Try moondog guitarse. I bought a Spirit for £295. A lovely little guitar for the price.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Fortunato
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 11:16 AM

Peter is right. Play the Blueridge mahogany or rosewood before you purchase any of the guitars mentioned above. Any. I've purchased two for my sons. I haven't heard a Martin D-18 to a D-28 under 30 years old that is significantly better and no Taylors, Lowden's, etc.
IMHOP
cheers,
chance

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Grab
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 11:35 AM

$500 is £250, Peter. Mind you, instruments tend to be priced so that a $500 instrument costs £500 over here, because the various companies know we'll pay it. :-(

The problem is that there an awful lot of competent guitar makers producing nice instruments at that price. As well as the various Godin brands, there are low-end Martins and Taylors, Cort, Larrivee, Huss and Dalton, Rainsong (if you like the carbon-fibre look), Faith, Yamaha, and a whole bunch of others. Which one is best will come down to what you like and random chance on a particular instrument. So your best bit is almost certainly to hie yourself down to Denmark Street in London and do some serious A-B comparisons.

I'd be very surprised if you could find a second-hand Lowden under £1k, but if you can then great. In general, second-hand will be more cost-effective than new though, without necessarily being poorer quality. And the instrument will already be played-in too.

Graham.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: PeadarOfPortsmouth
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 12:12 PM

Dang...my last visit had the pound and dollar almost even. Amazing what a couple of years of W can do to the dollar.

Ooops, thread creep.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 12:27 PM

depends what you want really.

personally I think if you want an electro acoustic, go for something like Yamaha or Faith that has been put together by a design team. rather than get an acoustic and hope you will find a pick up system that fits. Having said that I have fitted my Faith Jupiters with K&K pure western bugs , and they sound okay.

I would always factor in spending about £70 getting the guitar looked at and sorted out from its factory state, by a good luthier. Plus you need a case.

The good news is that as long as you don't hanker after after a 'name'. there is a wide choice of solid wood guitars. this is a phenomena that was unknown, say four or five years ago.

Recently Jack Hudson (revered by several of us on these pages) got a really nice solid wood J45 copy by Tokai, for noodling round on - paid about £500. A really excellent guitar.

And as people have said the choice is very wide. I would say, go to a guitar show - you get a wider choice than in the shops. If you see a guitar you like in a shop - see if they do an online price, sometimes its cheaper.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 03:33 PM

Expect to pay at least a grand (GBP) (for a knocked-about one), and up to 1,500 (for a good one) for a S/H Lowden - you won't get one for the £500-600 someone quoted earlier. They are top-quality hand-built instruments and, as with all things, you get what you pay for.

If you decide you want one, I know where there's a nice O25 that the owner would let go to a good home for the right money!
S:0)

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 06:26 PM

Entry level Martin. No contest, for new. Even the chipboard and melamine ones sound good.

Ayers are not bad and well within your budget (but vary from guitar to guitar).


Unless you can get a nice S/h Mugen (maybe a THE78)
There are some Wonderful and underpriced S/h Suzukis out there. "Taste, try, before you buy"
Or a Yamaha FG360 (obviously S/h) Nippon Gakki

All Dreadnoughts you will notice. Real Jumbos command a price premuim that is not worth it (IMHO) unless you particularly value the extra articulation in the treble.

If you don't want "Big Thud" try any Hagstrom J-45s you find (alas they are all individuals). Seriously undervalued. The one in Hanks is crap.

A good Morris is likely to be a bargain.

If you can go £750 (S/h) consider a Gibson J-50. The thinner finish lets them breathe a bit more freely, and because they are not J-45s they are cheaper. Avoid the adjustable bridges or have a good guitar fettler retrofit a proper saddle.

But keep looking. A friend of mine has an unbranded 12-string (we think it might be a Garth, it resonates close to Eb) that knocks spots of many many big names.

Go to clubs that do not have amplification (so you can really hear the guitars properly) and listen, listen, listen.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Roj
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 05:38 AM

The Johnson Carolina is a lovely instrument range (IMHO). All solid Dreadnought or OOO for as little as £349.00 in the UK. I set up a OOO size one for a fellow who's selling his Santa Cruz and Martin and has bought a pair of these instruments - preferring the sound! I'd have to say that particular Carolina JO27 (OOO size) gave my Martin SPOOO16T limited edition a run for it's money, and I've got a good one.

It won't have the long-term "investment value" of a big-name brand, but my guess is that it'll outlast it's owner and still sound fine.

Play lots, the right one will tell you it's coming home with you. I'd recommend thatafter a few months you get it to a decent tech to have a bespoke set-up, which will just add the final touches as far as playability and sound are concerned.

Good luck with the search - I'm still looking for "The One" - and after 35 years suspect it doesn't exist. Might as well buy a Johnson!

Best Wishes

Brian

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,banjoman
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 11:23 AM

Have a look at the Lakewood web site - I bought one of their earlier guitars (one of the first they made) and its a really great instrument. They have a range of instruments and you might find one in your price range.
On the other hand, you could always think about a 5 string banjo for around that price.
Good hunting
Pete

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: oombanjo
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 11:24 AM

The new johnsons at music ground will blow you away.Cheers Oombanjo

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 11:25 AM

Yam LL16 look no further!

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: oombanjo
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 02:07 PM

you like it then Andy ?

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 03:22 PM

Jon and theleveller, I'd be amazed if you could buy any Lowden for under £2.5k nowadays (I may be wrong, but that's going on prices I have seen lately). I have two old Lowdens and they're beautiful. Seagull, a Canadian brand, make decent budget guitars - you get a lot for what you pay for. But I think the best advice is go to lots of shops with guitars in your budget range and just play them. Of course, there are 'good' guitars and 'bad' guitars, but within the range of good ones in any price range there's a lot which is personal preference: size, tone, neck width, 'feel', etc. If you play lots of guitars it will, I hope, soon become obvious what your own preferences are.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,acorn4
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 06:01 PM

I agree with one of the eralier replies - Seagull and Simon and Patrick guitars are made in the same factory in Quebec - don't think you'll find better quality in the price range you're looking for.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: redsnapper
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 06:17 PM

To add to what acorn4 said above... Norman and Art & Luthierie are also made in the factory that makes Seagull and S&P guitars. Quality is in the order 1)Seagull = Norman 2)S&P 3)A&L (budget line) but all are good.

I have a Norman B20 Folk (000 style body) and a very good guitar it is too (and I have owned Guild, Gibson, Manson, Lowden and Lakewood in the past).

RS

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 07:05 PM

try mike blair at bedroom acoustic music he knows about guitars and runds bedford folk club

Cllr

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 07:15 PM

yes a good man Mr Blair, we were once in a band together - Juggerlugs.

Give him my regards.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 03:27 AM

Ian, you could be right. Must be a bit out of date - I bought my Lowden new 12 years ago for a grand. Doesn't time fly? Come to think of it, it is insured for £1500.I think your figure of £2.5K is a bit steep, thought; there's an immaculate rosewood 35 on sale on ebay right now for £1.5K. Still, I hope you're right - not that I ever have any intention of ever selling my lovely, full-bodied beauty (the guitar's quite nice as well).

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: mandotim
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 03:48 AM

If you're looking for serious volume and low-end tone, try to find an early Takamine jumbo, preferably old enough to have been made in Japan rather than Korea. I think the model is the AN20, or if you want electrics the EN20. I have a 25 year old EN20, and it's a superb guitar. Too loud for sessions, it just overpowers other guitars. (Maybe I could try playing softer????)
Blueridge are very nice, and I think Breedlove are now doing a lower end range that have a sweet tone. A Seagull would be good; I have one of their early 12-strings, and it's a belter; very easy to play for a 12. As an 'oddity' choice, think about importing a Babicz Identity series from the States; a friend has one, and it's very good indeed, if you can live with the weird 'fan' string attachment. The dollar is at a low level, so some shopping around should drop it to within your budget. See one here
.Hope this helps.
Tim

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: mandotim
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 04:08 AM

As if by magic, have a look here
Ignore the discussion about woods; it's a solid cedar top with solid mahogany back and sides.
Tim

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: mandotim
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 04:27 AM

The link doesn't seem to be working. Try searching ebay for Takamine en20, and it should come up. Not long left on the auction, and at the moment it's very cheap.
Tim

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: PeadarOfPortsmouth
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 11:51 AM

Mandotim,

Never heard or seen a Babicz before your post...and then came across one for sale at http://nh.craigslist.org/msg/497056847.html.

Funky looking thing...

Peter

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 12:24 PM

Ian, Leveller - I've been looking to sell my Lowden (O25, 2001 vintage, good condition) and I spoke to Seamus at Vintage Guitars in Norwich (Lowden specialists - Seamus was with Lowden Guitar Co. when they were at Newtownards, I believe) and he advised me that Newtownards-built S/H Lowdens (the ones with 'boiled-sweetie' amber tuner buttons) in good condition will fetch around £1,100 nowadays, maybe £1,200 if Exc++. Appearently the S/H market has been rather badly affected by the new ones from the Downpatrick workshop, with the 'dolphin' bracing.

At least that's what he said. And you're right about new prices - £2k+ upwards.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 12:26 PM

In fact, check out their website. Some very cute new Lowdens on there, starting around £1,900.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST,lefthanded guitar
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 12:35 PM

I still can't figure out this exchange rate exactly, but it seems that even if your pounds are worth more than our American dollars, you still are paying the same amount.

Well, if you can afford $700-800 in US dollars , you may want to check into some Guilds. A fairly nice sounding, resonant and playable guitar for a decent price.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 12:56 PM

trouble is, even though a pound is about two dollars. by and large, you can usually work out that the price of USA products in our shops cost us about the same number of pounds as you pay dollars.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 01:10 PM

If you want an American guitar, the answer is to buy from a US dealer and import it. Even with shipping costs and the import duty and VAT added on by HMR&C, with the X-Rate at c. USD 2 = GBP 1, it works out much cheaper than buying from a UK dealer.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 01:32 PM

Not much in it for these cheaper models, I have found John. Probably worth it for more expensive things.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 02:13 PM

Point taken Al, I'm sure you're right.
Cheers.
S:0)

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Hitchin' John
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 03:14 PM

I bought a Taylor 214 for £529 including case.

I am really please with the range of expression it gives me.

But if you are spending the money, the choice is yours. The best plan is to enjoy the process - you already have a guitar so you don't need to rush. Play as many different guitars as takes your fancy, ignore your budget, at least initially. Try to think what you like and don't like about every guitar you pick up.

That was my plan until I ran into the Taylor fairly quickly - I had tried some of their more expensive guitar and not had them grab me but this one did.

Good luck in your search

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: number 6
Date: 07 Dec 07 - 08:04 PM

I 2nd Hitchin' John and Giok's suggestion.

I've had a Taylor 310 for about 6 years now. Last August I purchased the Taylor 210 ... I'm extremely happy with both of them. They are keeper's without a doubt.

I have also owned a Godin Seagull, I was not happy with it. The most inconsistantly toned guitar I ever owned. ... I've also own a Blueridge. It is a damned good low priced guitar, but is not a match to the 410 especially when it comes to quality, or consistency in tone.

Personally I'd stay away from the low end Martins.

Good luck on whatever you choose.

biLL

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 07:59 AM

I have a Lowden W23P dating from George's early days - a Claro-Walnut jumbo and a real gem. I have a Norman ST68 Dreadnought I bought in 1980 and I have to admit it's still my favourite gigging guitar. With a budget of £500 you're unlikely to get a Lowden, but Godin's guitars are probably as good as you can get at that price.

When I bought my Norman I had intended to buy a Martin and had a budget of £1000, tried all the Martins in the shop (there were several to choose from) and I kept going back to the Norman and just closing my eyes to try to be objective. I wanted to buy a Martin for the street cred, but left behind a very frustrated store-owner telling me my guitar wouldn't fetch a decent 2nd hand price. No problems there for me as I will never sell it.

Good luck with your search.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 08:16 AM

Freshman 400D Stunning Guitar rrp £550 such a bargain, try one!

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: English Jon
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 09:57 AM

Freshman are very good - also have a look at the cheaper stanfords. Tasty stuff.

cheers,
J

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 02:54 PM

Ditto Freshman - very impressive

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:19 AM

Guild Gad series are great guitars in that price range.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: English Jon
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 07:16 AM

Might be worth mentioning - The Music Room in cleckheaton are doing 20% off all new instruments as a january sale thing. - That effectively pushes your budget up to 600 quid!

Cheers,
Jon

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: bubblyrat
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:59 PM

My Cedar top ,mahogany-sided Avalon with Fishman Prefix -Plus, cost me £ 550 about 5 years ago, not long after they first came out. It has matured into a beautiful -sounding instrument, much admired, although I think the quality may have been better with the first production run. They can now be had for £ 450--500 if you look around.Frank Docherty, regular guitar-player at the famous Herschel Arms ( Slough ) Irish session, liked mine so much that he bought one himself, so I guess that that says something !!! Go try !!
          Nick E. Nackinou

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:26 PM

With guitars you don't get what you pay for you get what you LISTEN for.

Go along to your local store with an unbiased friend and close your eyes. At one 'Sam Ash' store they had their generic brand for $100 that sounded better than a Martin at many times that price.

Don't be a snob, close your eyes and you might get a bargain.

Subject: RE: New guitar £500 budget
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 02:15 PM

It's also amazing what you can get if you go into any of the reputable guitar dealers and make it known that you have cash in your pocket. A good saleman will do all in his power to seperate you and the cash - Including substantial discounts!

Good luck.

Dave
(Who only owns a £100 Marlin and a £50 Guvnor but has lots of guitar playing friends!)