BS: other people's negativity

Subject: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST,Kaye
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 12:40 PM

Hi

Don't get me wrong, I can be pretty negative myself, but at the moment I am dealing with a close friend that is just so negative about everything that I don't know how to respond. If it's a big important issue it's all doom and despondency. If it's a small matter it's all..... "of course "/ "what do you expect" / " i told you so". Now I don't even say anything that's of interest to me because I am fed up getting such a negative response.

To make matters worse, I am depressed and taking anti depressants, so I have my own issues ! Maybe he is depressed too, but in him it comes out in more of a grumpy way !

any hints on how to deal with it ?

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 12:42 PM

One would be to stay away from this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 12:44 PM

Try snokelling together on a coral reef.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Bert
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 12:44 PM

In our family if anyone was ever feeling down they were admonished with a very exaggerated "Oh you poor old thing"

It didn't always help but sometimes it got a laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:05 PM

I had a friend like that. I tried several conversational tactics to move her off of her negativity, including asking point blank what was going on for her that was good or joyous. She would sometimes mumble something before going back off in her negativity very soon. I finally decided that her negativity was too heavy a burden for me to carry, and I haven't talked to her in most of a year. I like it that way. I can manufacture plenty of negativity on my own. I need more positivity around me, and I choose my company accordingly.

Dunno if that helps, but that is my story.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:10 PM

More seriously.... I've been taken down by people who were negative, and all I achieved was getting myself depressed. There was a time when I thought of myself as a Knight In Shining Armor. I thought that I could help people who are negative about everything if I was only patient, long enough. I found it a losing battle. It's one thing to try to help a friend through a particularly hard time. That's what friends are for, as the song goes. But, if someone is long-term negative or depressed, you are more likely to depress yourself, or find out that patience has it's limits.

I traded in my armor a long time ago. It was all rusty and dented.
I'd encourage you to get a little distance from your friend in as subtle a way as you can. If subtlety fails, be straightforward about the effect such negativity is having on you.

There are folks who always lift my spirits and energize my days. And others who drag me, and everyone else under if given the change. I was pleased to see that one of my sons has realized that life is too precious to spend a lot of time in the company of people who are constantly negative...

I've been through depression. The key word is "through."

Through happens.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:11 PM

Find someone less fortunate than yourself and help them out. Keep doing that until you feel better. I'm serious - it works.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:15 PM

Your friend could of course be clincally depressed and need to see a doctor?

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:16 PM

As the song says, Wesley:

"Have I given anything today?
Have I helped some need soul on my way"

The problem is, when you're depressed it's hard to believe that anyone would appreciate you or want to be around you. Just when you need that, more than anything...

But the advice is right... as much as you can, tryo helping someone else. There's never a problem finding someone worse off than you.

Their name is Legion.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: MMario
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:18 PM

a long session with really depressing movies, chocolate, a comforter and a nice fire can help. Sort of "exhaustion therapy" - taking yourself so low that anyplace at all is up. (The chocolate, fire and comforter are to prevent going too low. Moderation in everything, even excess!)

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:52 PM

I have a friend like this too. It's always a big drama and upset. I often just listen and then ask her what's going on in her life that is good....anything at all...no matter how small. I will say that it gets old and I find myself sometimes dreading her phone calls. There isn't anything I can say that is going to help her, she refuses to look beyond the negativity...and it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

I've taken a break from my friend and don't spend nearly the amount of time that I used to with her. I miss her but I don't miss going home all tense and frustrated.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 02:06 PM

It hasn't happened often but I have withdrawn my friendship from a couple of people in the last 20 - 30 years. In one case I told the person why I was going to change my schedule- she was/is a bright woman and was often interesting to me, but after a few hours spent with her I was depressed about everything in this world and all the people in it. And I told her so.

With the other person - also a woman - I just started being 'busy' when she called. We still say Hello when we run into each other and she catches me up on what is happening in her life- and strangely enough, what is happening in her life is still full of insults, inconsiderateness, fraud, bad doctors, high prices, incompetent co-workers- you get the idea.

I leave her, profuundly glad that I removed myself.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 02:11 PM

I have a friend like that. I tell her to shut up and play her fiddle.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 02:39 PM

As one who falls into lengthy periods of negativity myself...I would strongly advise you to stay away from your negative friend. You won't be able to cheer him up no matter what you say, and he will probably drag you down into the hole he's in while you're trying to. That kind of misery feeds on itself.

When I'm in one of those negative times, I mainly just avoid hanging out with other people until it passes. I become a hermit. I am not that eager to share my misery with my friends. I've known a few people who were just about always negative...or very frequently so...and I avoid them if I can. They are far more than I am able to deal with.

Professionals get paid to deal with that stuff, as do some other people such as priests. If you get paid to listen to it, fine...if you don't, you're probably better off without it.

As Abe Lincold said, "Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." And that's true. Funny, though, it doesn't seem true when I'm in the grip of depression! Depression is a self-justifying and self-promoting state of moderate insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 02:53 PM

If you want to keep your friend, there's things you could do together such as - traditional dancing - time spent together when you both get excercise and his metabolism gets a good boost - movies - you can watch something and don't have to listen to him for too long.

but I agree - no one wants to be dragged into a black hole. dumping on others is counter productive form of emotional release that achieves nothing - I have passed on louise hay's book "you can heal your life" to a friend who was depressed - its a good book to challenge anyone with a victim mentality, and to help them find ways of empowerment without blame.

good luck

freda

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:03 PM

When Chongo Chimp gets depressed he drinks heavily. This can result in several things...

More acute depression.

Dark humour, laced with biting sarcasm.

Hostile outbursts.

Morose withdrawal.

Lack of monetary funds.

Fistfights with strangers or ex-friends.

Getting arrested.

Getting evicted.

Hitting total absolute rock-bottom and sobering up.

Facing the truth: no one else is to blame.

Chongo has just enough wits that he usually manages to veer off the depressed track just soon enough to avoid complete disaster. He experiences a blinding flash of critical self-awareness, realizes that he's been acting like a complete idiot, and buckles down and gets to work on a new case. The work itself revitalizes him. This is the stuff that a private eye's life is made of, and it makes for good storylines too.

Chongo would probably tell your friend, "Stick a ripe mango in yer face and shut up, fer Chrissake!"

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Bert
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:06 PM

Ya know singing sometimes helps and so does walking. So walk your friend along to the nearest song circle and choose a few silly songs for yourself to sing.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:11 PM

Less seriously: Try smokelling together a reefer

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:14 PM

Yeah. Physical work helps too. I think depression may just be stagnant unexpressed emotional energy that turns toxic inside the human system. You have to get it out somehow.

I had a girlfriend who was chronically depressed. She was like a black hole. The only things that would get her out of it were making love or playing a couple of hours of ping pong at the local "Y". The physical activity got the depression out. She'd be okay for a few hours after that...or maybe for a day or two.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:22 PM

I have a cousin like that. I like to call these people "Emotional Vampires" because they suck the life right out of you with all the gloom and doom. I finally had to separate myself from it and haven't spoken to her in 9 months. It was difficult, but I needed to do it for my own mental health. Sometimes you just have to make the break.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:31 PM

when you're gravity fails and negativity won't pull you through

strange how Dylan seems to be writing just for me, and you of course!

I used to do a terrific Fred astaire impression
you gotta acc-cen-tuate the positive!

do a terrific fred astaire impression, even if its only in your head.

But perhaps also for for your miserable mate, tell him he can be Ginger Rogers, but no tongues!

Isn't this a lovely day to be caught in the rain, is perhaps too obvious a starting point. But it will give him something to aim for.

alll the best

al

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:41 PM

How much responsibility are you trying to take for your friend?

How much time is that taking from things you know you need to do for yourself?

Helping is one thing-- taking responsibility for another person is something else.

If you're hurting too, the BEST way you can help anyone else is to be a role model.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 06:11 PM

The best way to cheer yourself up is to try to cheer somebody else up.

Mark Twain

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 06:25 PM

Kaye,
Sounds like you need to take of yourself right now. Work through your own depression - I highly recommend "The Feeling Good Handbook" if you can stand the title. If your friend isn't getting help, nudge him in that direction but don't allow him to suck the life out of you.

Shambles - how much do you want for that book of annoying quotes for every occasion?
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 06:46 PM

"Of course"/ "What do you expect?" / "I told you so"

Interesting examples. They sound negative if you say them in response to something negative, like "What a waste of time!" but not if you say them in response to something positive, like "That was fun!"

It sounds like your friend is hearing a lot of negativity and reflecting it back to you, which is not what you want.

Now, were those simply poorly chosen examples, or do they really show what is happening?

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: number 6
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 08:03 PM

Whoever said the world was fair.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 08:11 PM

Harry Lee Wigley. He said a number of other offbeat things too.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Scoville
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 09:58 PM

I have to confess I often email my best friend to bitch about my weird coworker, how much I hate my classes, now tired I am, and how I haven't had a social life in six years (all of which, I realize, is my fault/my responsibility). Then, I feel badly for unloading on her and try to look for funny things to send her.

She's very forgiving. She gives me pep talks and knows she's always welcome to dump on me in kind but she doesn't do it that often. She was always a happier disposition than I am, although we both went through some unhappy times (not in respect to each other--we've always gotten along fabulously) when we were younger and I don't think either of us has found anyone else who relates as well. I can literally tell her ANYTHING.

I don't expect her to fix it, though, and I don't go in for major personal catastrophes.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 10:35 PM

Freda, it wasn't ME you lent that book to, was it ;-)

I've been having the same problem, being surrounded by some very negative people - my daughter in particular, who I find very draining. She won't get help either, and is convinced that all her problems are somebody else's fault - quite often mine, according to her. "Emotional vampires" is a very good description. I also call them "people poisoners". My mother was one too.

After a while, it dawns on me that some people really don't WANT to be helped. There's a payoff for them somewhere in being that negative, and as Susan said, there's a difference between helping and taking responsibility for someone, so all you can do is back off and look after yourself, which is what I am trying to do now.

I seem to attract people like this. I like to think that I am by nature a happy person most of the time, and they latch onto that, like a drowning man. Unfortunately, like a drowning man, they have the effect of dragging others down too. I don't think the most positive person in the world is strong enough to stay that way in the presence of continuous relentless negativity. I finished a relationship 3 years ago where the negativity was overwhelming.

Trouble is, when I am being dragged down and it is getting too much, I sometimes need someone to talk to, and I am very much aware that if I am not careful, I am going to sound that way to the person I am talking to, and pass the doom and gloom on to them, so I try to limit the dose and go and get on with something, like the gardening.

Jenny, who is off to tidy the back yard for the BBQ.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 11:56 PM

People like that are emotional vampires. They can be very toxic. Through years of experience with one sibling, I decided like you, Jenny, that they really don't want things to get better. In my sibling's case, I think they're just so used to the status quo it's difficult for them to even fathom things changing for the better.

Interestingly enough, when we all decided we'd had enough and were not going to play along, withdrew most of our time, energy, and support, this person started doing positive things for themselves. Still bitching and complaining a lot, BUT moving in the right direction.

The thing with people like that is they have to WANT things to change AND they have to do it themselves; no one can make it better for them. It took me a long time to learn I could NOT take care of things and make it better!

Best any of us can do is take care of ourselves, FIRST.

Good on you, Jenny, for taking care of yourself. I know how difficult it can be with a family member, esp. a daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 11:57 PM

Emotional vampires are attracted to people who have more energy than they do, Jenny, because they simply need the energy. It's similar to getting warmth when you're cold. It's instinctive behavior, usually, not deliberate. They are also, naturally, attracted to people who are inclined to let them play the game the way they want to, which means people who give in easily and let themselves be drained.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST,me
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 12:57 AM

You people are getting me really depressed with all your negativity.

Aaargh ... feeling faint ... must escape vampires ...

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 02:12 AM

The first response in this thread did advise.

One would be to stay away from this forum.

Has anyone here dived or snorkelled on a coral reef?

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 04:21 AM

A psychiatrist once told me of a theory which suggests that depressed people are realists - non-depressed people are just deluding themselves ...

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 04:24 AM

Explosives. Works for me!

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Pied Piper
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 05:29 AM

I'm having a bit of a visit (brief I hope) from the Black Dog at the moment and I'm pulling in my horns and try to stay together. Any hint of negativity and I start running in the opposite direction.

"To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

STILL
MUSN'T GRUMMBLE

Good luck PP

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 06:23 AM

Reject your friends and relatives because you don't like their attitudes or you feel bad around them. (I feel bad around you so it must be your fault)Great lot you all are! Selfish and self-serving, IMHO

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 08:18 AM

Yes, you'd better leave before it rubs off onto you.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: JennyO
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 08:36 AM

Sounds like it already has.

Yeah, I've heard all that before, GUEST, but guilt trips don't work on me any more.

Thankyou for your insightful posts, Kat and LH. You are both spot-on. It's taken me a while, and it's tremendously hard because it's my daughter, but I'm learning. What a great place this is!

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 01:38 PM

William Styron wrote a wonderful book about suffering the Great Depression, called something like 'Darkness Visible'. He was without hope but eventually found his way back. The journey is not only fascinating but enlightening.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Alice
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 02:20 PM

The job I have takes a positive attitude to get through the day and deal with rejection, difficult people, etc. Like others relate here, I've had to learn how much contact is too much when dealing with friends/relatives who are negative. Recently a co-worker left the company because she realized the job wasn't working out for her... the reason was every day she approached things with a defeated attitude. Projecting failure is a self fulfilling prophecy. Clinical depression is serious. Getting medical help is an important move.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: autolycus
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 04:00 PM

Depression isn't a feeling - it's avoidance of difficult feelings.

The person de-presses themself, pushes the difficult feelings down and suffers the consequences.

Has anyone tried reverse psychology with a negative person, i.e.agreeing with them non-stop?

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: number 6
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 04:12 PM

>>>Reject your friends and relatives because you don't like their attitudes or you feel bad around them. (I feel bad around you so it must be your fault)Great lot you all are! Selfish and self-serving<<<

I'm vey well familiar with that statement ... having a daughter that suffers from bi-polar disorder.

>>>Has anyone tried reverse psychology with a negative person, i.e.agreeing with them non-stop<<<

yup ... doesn't work ... at least with my daughter it doesn't.


sIx

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 04:59 PM

ivor, yes, I've tried that with my sibling, too. Didn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 07:19 PM

despair.com

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Justa Picker
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 10:47 PM

Become metrosexual. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 01:10 AM

"Depression isn't a feeling - it's avoidance of difficult feelings. The person de-presses themself, pushes the difficult feelings down and suffers the consequences."


BRILLIANT statement, autolycus! I think you are quite right.

I was recently reading some great material on this, and it said that "all mental illness is a result of avoiding legitimate suffering".

And what is legitimate suffering? Doing the most sensible thing is legitimate suffering. Meaning, one is unwilling to do the sensible thing in one's life, because it is difficult, it involves work, it means confronting an obstacle, it is seen as unpleasant in some way, it is seen to equate to "suffering". The longer one avoids doing sensible and necessary things, the worse everything slowly gets. You can avoid by getting drunk, by getting stoned, by delaying, by hiding, by refusing to move, by doing something easier that is more fun and absorbs your mind for awhile, or by getting depressed and just sitting around agonizing or lying in bed.

And don't I know it!

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 02:46 AM

Thanks, heric - Now I have to read each and every one.

Hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: other people's negativity
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 11:15 AM

Most mental illness - is pretty much like any other form of illness - mostly a question of bad luck.