From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 12:35 PM

Not much info on the sailors - but currently only the index is available. There may be much more in the actual detail, some of which may be published shortly.

George Simpson, Dundee. First ship Castleroy, 1888; last County of Linlithgow, 1899. This one?

Edward Robinson, Sunderland - Went to sea 1878; left sail 1890; left sea 1928. [Storm Along] heard in the Glen Bervie, 40 years ago. This Glenbervie? (far right on top row)

William Fender, Barry - Went to sea 1878; left sail 1900. Sailed in ship Ingomar, 1880, Valparaiso, Chile.

Harry Perry, S.S. Leviathan - Born 1850 Shipped 1866. Last ship Daylight, 1914

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 10:59 AM

Thinking about the recent round-outs of references to "Sally Brown" and "Stormalong"...

These 2 are actually broad themes, I'd say. What we have been documenting are several different chanties on the somewhat mixed basis of frameworks and similar lyrical themes. Which is fine -- and pretty much unavoidable. And it is actually quite useful to take these chanties all together; they are undoubtably related and might be said to form a cluster or "complex" (or something fancy and jargon-y like that). Yet it is also relevant to remember the distinction between these two dimensions.

The two dimensions, clarified:

1) A formal "framework" consisting of refrains and a basic melody. It is often linked to regulation verses, too, but let's treat it independently of those to make the definition clear.

2) A lyrical theme (not always present). It may consist of a cluster of related lines. Verses about Old Stormy's death, or the character of Sally Brown, cohere as a theme, though they don't depend upon any one verse or ordering of verses. Another lyrical theme of a sort is more like a device, e.g. naming lots of places and rhyming things with them.

Chanties lyrics are not limited to such themes. At one extreme, they may be full blown "stories" (read, ballads) that vary comparatively little and which depend on the inclusion of certain verses in certain order. Ballads like that are their own sort of thing that, I believe, have inspired a particular methodology of "tracing" them. (Possibly, the "typical" approach of ballad tracing has so far led to some failure when it comes to understanding chanties.) My impression is that the ballad structure was not common in the early chanties, but that it was easily added later. At the other extreme is a structure where one verse after another has no relationship to the others. I'd tend to call the this an African-American aesthetic and the former (ballad type) a Euro/Euro-American one (but those are just generalities). Both would come to be mixed in chanty singing, but it looks to me like early chanteys were more of the non-ballad type.

I don't have the sense that the Stormy and Sally Brown themes are of a ballad nature (though they may have been inspired by earlier ballad). Nonetheless, they slide further along the scale towards unifying coherence. Note again though: such unifying coherence was not necessarily a goal at all. The reason for saying it is to explain how they cohere as as "strong" themes (i.e. vs. incidental verses).

The relationship between dimensions:

A framework may contain *reference to* a lyrical theme in the refrain (i.e. "way hey roll n go" does not, but "spend my money on Sally Brown" does). That often inspires the use of that lyrical theme with it. However, as examples have shown (e.g. verses associated with "Blow Boys Blow" w/ refrain of "Sally Brown" or vice versa), the framework can exist completely independently of lyrical theme.

The "way hey roll and go" item with a "Sally Brown" chantey is a different "framework" from the "hi-lo Johnny Brown" one. However, the singer of these may have very well use the Sally Brown lyrical theme with both. Or not.

"Sally Brown" and "Stormalong" are "strong" lyrical themes. They float around independently of frameworks. I think there are also "strong" frameworks, that required no reference to lyrical themes, not even regulation verses, and which were particularly suited to incidental/topical lyricizing for that reason. For example, the "sailor fireman" framework, though the phrase was "fire down below," was not dependent on any "fire" theme. (Distinguish this framework from another "fire down below," which IS all about talking about fire here, fire there.) No, this "fire down below" phrase was likely born of the context of loading up furnaces on steamboats, and became merely customary. The verse lyrics could go anywhere. Some of the most enduring chanties have these frameworks, like "Long Time Ago" and "Blow the Man Down."

I have said before that I consider the framework to be the core identity of the chantey. Yet some lyrical themes are just so strong that they create their own little world of cluster of songs. They probably inspired new frameworks.

To begin to sketch some of the lyrical themes:

-- "Sally Brown." It seems to connect up with "Shenandoah" and "Shallow Brown" and this "Salambo" thing in the Caribbean. While I would not be surprised if the popular Sally Brown theme was inspired by the ballad the 1820s ballad that has been discussed, I also would not be surprised to find that the idea of Sally Brown was born of an even older trope that also gave birth to Shenandoah and the others.

-- "Stormalong". It seems to connect up with "Santianna." Sometimes it is Stormalong who is eulogized. Then it was General Jackson (i.e. Battle of New Orleans, 1812). Then, after 1846/47, it was Gen. Taylor and Santa Anna who were. "Stormalong" may also have been an old "folk hero" (the male counterpart to Sally!). In any case, many different frameworks utilized this common theme.

-- "Places" theme. I.e., "Were you ever in [PLACE]?" or "Tom's/John's gone to [PLACE]"

-- Blow Boys Blow theme, which is about naming the officers/crew members or naming the different meals. It may connect up to the "Places" theme with the line "Were you ever on the Congo River?"

--etc...

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 21 Mar 10 - 03:55 PM

I always welcome a clarifying process, and I think that Gibb has given us another set of tools for our work here. He says that what, "we have been documenting are several different chanties on the somewhat mixed basis of frameworks and similar lyrical themes." I want to focus on "frameworks" and "similar lyrical themes". I also want to stress the importance of working with more than one chanty at a time, or what Gibb has called a "complex" of chanties and trying to see the interrelationships among them.

The definitions that he offers in the preceding post for a "framework" and for a "lyrical theme" are clear and precise, and workable. We've already been focusing a lot on the "framework" of the work song genre and I think that it has been very helpful. I certainly understand not only the hauling chanties but their African American sources a whole lot better, as well as the interplay between source and chanty. This has also helped me stay focused on the *function* of these "chanties, proper". They were used on the job to do a particular kind of job. While I still don't have all of those ropes (and I don't think that's the proper term) sorted out, I am beginning to have some sense of the nature of the work.

What Gibb is offering that is new in his last post is a concept of a "lyrical theme" as a way of looking at a complex of chanties. His examples of Old Stormy's death and Sally's character immediately put this in focus for me, along with the example of what I would call "going all around the world".   

The further suggestion of a possible difference between an "African American" sense and a "Euro/Euro-American" sense in the chanties is also helpful.   While identifying the "E/EA" sense with what we normally think of as "ballads" is helpful, I would remind us that there are also some excellent African American ballads, like "John Henry", "Frankie and Albert", "Staggerlee", etc. And yet these so-called ballads of Black origin are a bit different from the more Anglo oriented ones and the difference lies with the nature of the story line.    In the Black traditions, the story line is a lot more fluid. And this matches up with what Gibb has described as a general difference between the African American sense and the E/EA sense in the chanties.

An aside that I have always found interesting is the mention by Charles J. Finger in his little book called SAILOR CHANTIES AND COWBOY SONGS (1923), that when he and several of his mates were castaway on Vellarino Island in the South Atlantic, the time was often passed with the singing of chanties. One of his mates even claimed to have sailed with John Masefield. Finger remembered some of these chanties and wrote them down not too long after he made his way back to civilization. And he says that "it was on a Gulf coasting ship that I first heard "Stackerlee." (p. 15) A little while later he says, "another favorite with sailors of all nations is the ballad setting forth the deeds of derring-do of Jesse James..." (p, 17) Here we have examples of both Black and White ballads at sea (though not being used as chanties, unless they were sung at the capstan of pumps, and Finger does not say).

I think that it is important to note that both story and non-story themes would be blended in the chanties, but, according to Gibb, "early chanteys were more of the non-ballad type."   But even without a coherent story line, both Stormy and Sally have lyrical themes that provide what Gibb calls "unifying coherence."

All weekend, I've been imagining a story about "When Stormy Meets Sally". It could go in any number of directions, given the established themes connected with each chanty.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 09:39 AM

Continuing to parse out Gibb's last post, I find his analysis of the relationship between the dimension of "framework" and "lyrical theme" to be helpful. I've been wondering how "Sally Brown" can show up in so many different variations, as well as different chanties, and this explains it quite well. And the same goes for "Stormalong" but perhaps even more so. With Stormy we are talking about a whole family of chanties.

Gibb says that strong lyrical themes " float around independently of frameworks." And he makes the case for strong, independent frameworks as well with the example of "fire down below", "long time ago," and "blow the man down," and shows how these frames could pick up such diverse themes.

And it may be that some lyrical themes were so strong that they actually "inspired new frameworks". I would like to hear a bit more on this.

I've had "Sally Brown" running around with "Shallow Brown" up and down the "Shenandoah" for weeks. I'm glad to see that there is a possible reason for this. And what is "this "Salambo" thing in the Caribbean?" I've missed that one. I have nothing to base it on at all but somehow, I think that "Faithless Sally Brown" was inspired by the actual sea-going "Sally Brown" rather than vice-versa, and I think that Gibb's suggestion that there may be an earlier, underlying theme reinforces my prejudice on this.

We know that "Shenandoah" may have originated as a river song, on actual rivers, perhaps the "wide Missouri" rather than the "Shenandoah River" itself. And we know it was used as a loading song from Bullen down in Demerara. We have a tiny bit of evidence that what might be an early form of "Sally Brown" might have originated as a rowing song (Moses Curtis account of "Sally was a fine girl" on the Cape Fear River in NC, in 1830). And we have "Shallow Brown" showing up as "Shiloh Brown" in the Georgia Sea Islands, but without any suggestion about its use, but with a strong "stevedore" lyrical theme.

All of this is to say once again that putting these chanties in a comparative frame of reference is important. They must have been ever so much more fluid in the "earlier days" than they seem to be now when one listens to the recorded versions, and one "cover" after another of the same thing that happened to get frozen at some point in print, or of somebody's imaginative re-creation of what might have been. This seems qualitatively different from the spontaneous fluidity of the early work songs. I appreciate these tools for helping us map the fluidity.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 09:55 AM

Rounding up some of our loose ends, here are the references on this thread *so far* that I have found for "Cheerily, Men" in chronological order. I am also including "Nancy Fanana" as a variant.

"CHEERILY, MEN"

{1834-36}, Richard Henry Dana, TWO YEARS BEFORE THE MAST, (1840). Dana does mention "Cheerily Men" in actual use in at least four places (in the 1911 edition from Google), on p. 118 to cat the anchor, on page 197 to bring the anchor to the head, on page 301 to bring the topsails to the masthead, and on page 316 at the halyards.

{1852} "News from Our Digger," Mr. Moon, TAIT'S EDINBURGH MAGAZINE, XX 293, (1853) [Ship "Chalmers," Gravesend to Melbourne, 1852]

{December 1858} article by I. Allen (who looks to have been a student?) in OBERLIN STUDENTS' MONTHLY

{1859} "Songs of the Chantey-Man", Captain John Robinson, THE BELLMAN,

{August 1, 1868}, "On Shanties", ONCE A WEEK, July to December, Eneas Sweetland Dallas, editor (London)

{Feb 8/1886} MEMORIES OF HALBERT DICKSON, Aust Jnl [from Warren Fahey - this may not be the same song]

{1888}, Laura Smith, THE MUSIC OF THE WATERS, p. 22-23

{1927}, Cicely Fox Smith, A BOOK OF SHANTIES, p. 40

{1911} Eleanor Mordaunt, A SHIP OF SOLACE

{1915} Cecil Sharp , ENGLISH FOLK-CHANTEYS


"NANCY FANANA" / "Haul 'er Away"

{October 11, 1839 - 1841}, Francis Allyn Olmstead, INCIDENTS OF A WHALING VOYAGE

{February, 1849}, Ezekiel I. Barra, A TALE OF TWO OCEANS in Boston harbor

A very cursory and quick Google Book Search reveals that there are many more references out there for "Cheerily, Men", although not many very early and mostly mentioned by title only. Also, the phrase itself seems to have been a popular one, and it was also apparently used on board ships as a form of order or encouragement, meaning something like "lively, now!" There are also many literary references that pick up this phrase.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 10:07 AM

And here are our references *so far* for "FIRE DOWN BELOW".

{1839} BENTLEY'S MISCELLANY vol 4, New York, Sept. 1839

"The Stoker's Chant" / "Fire Down Below" [riverboat fireman]
-----
{1839} BURTON'S GENTLEMEN'S MAGAZINE

"Fire! Down Below"
-----
{1850s} OCEAN LIFE IN THE OLD SAILING SHIP DAYS, John D. Whidden. Whidden's source is his "old friend, Captain George Meacom, of Beverly [Mass.]." Meacom refers to his own recollection of the 1850s, and his testimony seems to be reliable.

"Fire Down Below"
-----
{1853} A JOURNEY IN THE SEABOARD SLAVE STATES Frederick Law Olmsted, 1861

"Oahoiohieu" / "The Sailor Fireman" ("Lindy Lowe") [riverboat]
-----
{1854} ETHIOPIAN MELODIES, Christy and White, 1854

"Fire Down Below"
-----
{1879} WE FOUR, by Laura L Rees

"Fire down below!"
-----

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 11:19 AM

I'd better post this here before it gets lost again (I lost it once before for several years).

From James Hall, "Letters from the West: Letter III," The Port Folio, XII (Sept., 1821), p. 446. Judge Hall made a trip down the Ohio from Pittsburgh to Shawneetown, Ill. This comes from a letter about Parkersburg, Virginia:

"To the admirers of the simplicity of Wordsworth, to those who prefer the naked effusions of the heart, to the meretricious ornaments of fancy, I present the following beautiful specimen verbatim, as it flowed from the lips of an Ohio boatman:

"It's oh! as I was a wal-king out,
One morning in July,
I met a maid, who ax'd my trade,—
Says I, 'I'll tell you presently,'
'Miss, I'll tell you presently!'"

Obviously the first stanza of a predecessor of the capstan shanty "New York Girls/ Can't You Dance the Polka?"

When Hall revised his article for book publication in 1828, he added a second stanza:

And it's oh! she was so neat a maid,
That her stockings and her shoes,
She toted in her lilly [sic] white hands
For to keep them from the dews, &c., &c.

So it isn't quite "New York Girls." And that unfortunately is that.

Except that Hall also quotes "the words which the rowers are even now sounding in my ears as they tug at the oar,

Some rows up, but we row down,
All the way to Shawnee town
Pull away - pull away!"

I believe Hall makes the earliest reference to the "Shawneetown" rowing song. Its form and the "pull away" chorus brings it very close to the apparently soon-to-evolve halliard shanties.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 12:34 PM

And it may be that some lyrical themes were so strong that they actually "inspired new frameworks". I would like to hear a bit more on this.

I was thinking along the lines of how new songs get created. Even when "from scratch," there is usually some kind of prior basis. Let's say that one way some new chanties came about was simply by a guy chanting something that came to mind, to an improvised melody -- similar to what Lighter was imagining recently on the "Advent" thread. What I am suggesting is that, in order to supply some kind of lyrics to this improvisation, one might draw upon a pre-set lyrical theme (eg Stormalong). In other words, in addition to lyrical themes being re-used and "grafted" upon pre-existing frameworks, they, being so "strong" and ever-present in the "language" of the genre, would probably also be used at that moment when a new framework was being created.

The framework (legisign, a la Peirce, ha ha!) cannot exist without a specific realization (sinsign!). So if it is a matter of chicken and egg...lyrics must come first, I think. They are the "wax" in the "lost wax" process! :)

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 04:58 PM

Gibb (Guest), just because I recognize his name (CP) doesn't mean I ever understood anything he said! But I certainly am no idealist. With James I will only take seriously what is within the realm of experience, and more specifically, the plurality of particulars. But I think I see what you mean. I didn't know they were doing wax impressions back then. It's too bad they all went down with the "Julia Ann"! They could have saved me a lot of trouble! Talk about "lost wax".

Lighter, thanks for that "Shawneetown" verse. In THE SINGIN' GATHRIN', by Jean Thomas and Joseph Leeder, there is a song called "Push Boat", sung by Blanche Preston Jones, Lawrence County, Kentucky in 1911. Thomas and Leeder say,

"This ballad is classed as a "work" song, inasmuch as the men propelling the push boat with their long poles sang as they rowed down the Big Sandy River to its junction with the Ohio River at Catlettsburg, Kentucky.

This ballad was composed and set to tune by her great grandfather, Robert Preston, whose family was among the first settlers in the Big Sandy region of the Kentucky mountains, and for whom the town of Prestonsburg in Floyd County takes its name. Her kinsman, Thomas Jefferson Preston, owned and operated a push boat in the Big Sandy section before the coming of the steamboat. "Old Man Jeffry" refers to him, and Ike is the name of his son." (pp. 18-19). Here are the words (and there is also a tune printed):

"Going up the river,
From Catlettsburg to Pike,
Working on a push boat
For old man Jeffry's Ike.

Working on a push boat
For fifty cents a day;
Buy me girl a brand new dress
And throw the rest away.

Working on a push boat,
Water's mighty slack;
Taking sorghum 'lasses down,
And bringing sugar back.

I wish I had a nickel,
I wish I had a dime;
I'd spend it all on Cynthie Jane
And dress her mighty fine.

The weather's mighty hot, boys,
Blisters on my feet,
Working on a push boat
To buy my bread and meat.

Working on a push boat,
Working in the rain;
When I get to Catlettsburg,
Goodby Cynthie Jane."

And from Jean Thomas' BALLAD MAKIN' IN THE MOUNTAINS OF KENTUCKY (1939), there is this:

"Whereupon, plucking a lively accompaniment on the gourd banjo, Little Robin sang with all the bravado of his sefarin' ancestors: [same song with these additional verses]

Pushing mighty hard, boy,
Sand bar's in the way;
Working like a son-of-a-gun
For mighty scanty pay.

Going down the Big Sandy,
With Pete and Lazy Sam;
When I get to Catlettsburg,
I'll buy myself a dram.

Going down the river,
I live on buffalo,
Lordy, lordy, Cynthie Jane,
Don't I hate to go.

With a lively "Yo ho! Yo ho!" of his own making, Little Robin ended Old Robin's ditty...."(pp. 48-49, with music).

In a letter from Dillon Bustin, who wrote the well-known contemporary version of "Shawneetown", he says, "In terms of sourcs, "Shawneetown" was prompted by a few fragments of lyrics printed in primary documents from the early nineteenth century." And he mentions a book by Leland Baldwin called THE KEELBOAT AGE ON WESTERN WATERS. (early 1940s).

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 05:29 PM

Lighter-

Nice to see "Shawnee town" run back to 1828.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 10:15 PM

I'm just a little bit slow today, and already half a day behind on the new thread "The Advent and Development of Chanties" launched by Gibb at 12:33. I've only just discovered it! I wondered what Gibb meant by "the Advent thread"! Okay, now I'm on board, or at least I know when the ship left the dock.

I am excited about this new thread and want to support it and encourage it in every way I can. We've laid some good foundations for it here. This thread has been an occasion to open up some of these questions, but now they need more focusing and a different kind of approach and I think that Gibb is off and running with that. I will be participating in that discussion as much as I am able. And when we turn up something there that is pertinent to this thread's main concern, which is chanties that *could* have been sung on board the "Julia Ann" on her voyages from San Francisco to Sydney in 1853-1855, I will bring it over here and perhaps develop it some more here.

I think that it is all right to let this thread drift for awhile. It has become quite long and I had been thinking about how to break it out into some other kinds of threads and I appreciate Gibb taking the initiative on this. I have been going back over it and trying to pull together some bits and pieces that might be of value for future work. That is about done for now. Until someone can actually place some specific chanties in San Francisco around 1850-1860, or on route between SF and Sydney in that same time period, we are actually no closer to pinning down chanties for the "Julia Ann" than when we began this work. But, we have learned a lot in the meantime.   

I will be very interested in seeing what can be turned up on the new "Advent" thread. And I hope that something shows up in San Francisco. I'm not closing this thread down, but I want to thank all of those folks who have been working here over the last several months to make this what it has become. I appreciate your efforts. Here is the link to the new thread:

thread.cfm?threadid=128220&messages=20

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Mar 10 - 10:28 PM

Sounds like a plan, John! With all the stuff we've turned up here, and with your meticulous editing of that, it will be easy to...erm...steal links for the chronological treatment that I propose. I've already lots of new references from the 1820s, and I've not even begun to break out the 1820s quotes from this thread yet. (*I'm looking for things that were allegedly *observed* (or first written about) in the given decade; the publication dates can be later.)

And I am especially interested on how the authors are describing what they've seen, so far as that gives an idea of how familiar or prevalent it might have been.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 23 Mar 10 - 06:33 AM

"I'm just a little bit slow today, and already half a day behind on the new thread "The Advent and Development of Chanties" launched by Gibb at 12:33."

Yep. I shouldn't try to navigate late at night. I am more than half a day behind! Three days would be more accurate. I've been so wrapped up in stuff here I haven't been paying attention to what else is going on with Mudcat. There is a story that Captain Pond tells about his first voyage out to Sydney from San Francisco. He had just slipped out of Tahiti after leaving most of his very rambunctious crew behind in jail there. A day or so out, he noticed these boats *rowing* after him! The wind must not have been very good. They actually caught up with him and it turned out to be the French Navy, looking for stowaways from all of the other ships in the harbor. So, while I don't have the French on board, I am rowing away and will catch up.

Gibb, I like the direction you've taken, and I think this is going to be a most excellent trip.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 12:39 PM

"South Australia"

According to Gibb's analysis and categories, "South Australia" is a "call-response-call-response form (with the 2 "pull points" per response), & mock chorus." He says, "The "mock chorus" is structured and timed just like the call-response section, and the only reasons it appears as a chorus are 1) Everyone sings together 2)The lyrics repeat each time round."

Here is a summary of the references to "South Australia" and its variant "The Codfish Shanty" in this thread *so far*, with all of the other bibliographic references that I have been able to find. Please note that I did find a source for the "We're bound for Californiay!" variant. It was in Shay's book, but he gives no information or dating on it. Also note the snippets from Google Book Search from SPIN MAGAZINE. It's unfortunate that this is not online. I think it would give us a lot of information about some of the ongoing "Hugill Mysteries".

{late 1860's} Harding's "The Codfish Shanty" S. Hugill, SHANTIES FROM THE SEVEN SEAS, (1961)

{1863-1903} "Heave Away", J.S. Scott, from London, THE JAMES M. CARPENTER COLLECTION, (1929), "Don't you hear what the Captain say..."

{sometime between 1872 and 1874} William Laurie of Sailor's Snug Harbor, William Doerflinger, SONGS OF THE SAILOR AND LUMBERMAN (first published in 1951 as SHANTYMEN AND SHANTYBOYS) 1990, p.70-71, "originated, probably, in the British emigrant ships that ran out to Melbourne and Sydney, Australia, carrying their hundreds of homesick colonists halfway round the globe to less crowded lands beneath the Southern Cross."(Doerflinger)

{1874} Frederik Pease Harlow, THE MAKING OF A SAILOR, OR SEA LIFE ABOARD A YANKEE SQUARE-RIGGER, (1928), Harlow mentions a shipmate named Dave who claims to have sung "South Australia" on board the clipper ship "Thermopylae" in 1874 (p. 220)

{1875} Frederik Pease Harlow, CHANTEYING ABOARD AMERICAN SHIPS, (1962), "chanteying" aboard the "Akbar" (pp. 33-35)

{1879-1908} Reece Baldwin, of South Wales, England, THE JAMES M. CARPENTER COLLECTION, (1928) "Have you seen my bowery queen..."

{1888} Laura Smith, MUSIC OF THE WATERS, from a "coloured seaman at the "Home"

{1889-1901} Joanna Colcord, ROLL AND GO - SONGS OF THE AMERICAN SAILORMEN (1924), "probably belongs to the days of the British wool-clippers, which ran between London and Melbourne or Sydney." (p. 86 of the 1964 edition,)

{1902} "South Australia", a poem by Charles Keeler A WANDERER'S SONGS OF THE SEA, with "Heave away, haul away" chorus line.

{1912-1942} "Haul Away, I'm a Rolling King", Lydia Parrish, SLAVE SONGS OF THE GEORGIA SEA ISLANDS (1942)

{1915-1948} "Cape Cod Girls", Frank Shay, AMERICAN SEA SONGS AND CHANTEYS (1948) has chorus: "We're bound for Californiay!" (p. 84)

{1927} William Saunders, "Folk Songs of the Sea", MUSICAL OPINION AND MUSIC TRADE REVIEW, London, July, 1927, p. 985, "Cape Cod Girls"

{1930's} Stan Hugill, SHANTIES FROM THE SEVEN SEAS, (1961), (p. 193-196}

SPIN, Volumes 1-4; - Page 15, Volumes 1-4; - Page 15, 1962
AUSTRALIA (CAPSTAN SHANTY) South End gals don't wear any frills, They're skinny and tight as a finny addie's gills. Our Old Man don't set no sail, He's a Liverpool man wid a salt-fish's tail... ... an ' we're bound for California.

{1966-1967} "We Are Bound Down South Alibama", Roger Abrahams DEEP THE WATER, SHALLOW THE SHORE, (1974), sung by the whalers of Barouallie, (p. 110)

SPIN, Volumes 7-9; - Page 32, 1969
Hooray, you're a lanky I I'm bound for South Australia '. What makes you call me
a ruler and king ? Heave away ! haul away 'Cause I'm married to an Indian ...

{1969} Stan Hugill SHANTIES AND SAILORS SONGS, p. 59,

        "Gold was found in Australia in 1851-53, [just prior to the sailing of the "Julia Ann"] but until an agricultural peace fell on that up-to-then wild country of convicts and bush-rangers, no regular shipping companies supplied the needs of the people of the "Colonies" as sailors called Australia. The ships of Green and Dunbar, however, made occasional passages out to Sydney in between Oriental voyages. With the opening of the Suez Canal in 1869 and the new-fangled "tin-kettles" taking over the China tea trade, many of the clippers and the newly found Baines' Blackball line began to carve regular trade routes between the Mother Country and the Colonies. Apart from the capstan shanty "South Australia", no new work-songs were produced in these ships either, and many authorities feel that even this song, more than likely, started life in the days of the California gold rush, since versions are to be found giving:
   
   Heave away, haul away!
   And we're bound for California!"   
---
And here is a note from one of Gibb's posts above:

"To my mind, Colcord's 1924 version *must* be copied out of LA Smith. (And I always like to remind how much of Smith's work was plagiarized from the 1882 article, suggesting that even more of it was "culled" from other sources.) And I would not be surprised if Saunders culled his Codfish version "recently received from America" from Colcord -- either that, or the song was very well standardized around that time. Hugill's text version of South Australia/Rolling King looks to be a mash of all the sources he'd *read*, if not also what he used to sing/hear."   [Gibb: 30 Jan 10 - 01:46 PM]

There is certainly some basis for claiming that this chanty has African-American sources, both in its framework of call/response, and in some of its lyrical themes, as well as in its lack of a coherent story line. Also, it shows up in two later African-Amerian collections from the Georgia Sea Islands (Parrish) and the West Indies (Abrahams). On this basis, one could argue that the "shape" of it probably goes back to the 1850's period. However, the earliest documented date is *maybe* sometime in the late '60's, depending on when Harding learned his version of "Cape Cod Girls", and perhaps the early '70's according to Harlow.   

We have no data that places this song in San Francisco at the time of the Gold Rush, nor do we have any data that places it on the traders between San Francisco and Australia. And it is interesting that it does not show up in the Clive Carey Collection from Australia (Warren Fahey). [I am choosing to ignore the A.L. Lloyd reference because it has been impossible to pin it down.]

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:55 AM

A while back we put up a pretty good list of "hauling chanties", mainly from Hugill, but with a few additions, which Gibb had categorized according to his analysis of call/response worksongs. Later we made several additions from earlier sources, like "Grog Time of Day". But here is the link to that list:

thread.cfm?threadid=126347&messages=464#2852874

I went on to develop a category of "multiple attestations", which simply has to do with how often, when and where something shows up. Here is my original link on that (keep scrolling down for additional parts):

thread.cfm?threadid=126347&messages=464#2855290

I have applied the concept of multiple attestations with regard to publication in collections to the original list mentioned here. Here is the first part of those results:

Single Source Attestation:

"Across the Rockies"
"Do Let Me Lone, Susan"
"Essequibo River"
"Heave Away Boys, Heave Away" (a)
"Heave Away Boys, Heave Away" (b)
"Hilo Boys Hilo"
"Haul Away, Boys, Haul Away"
"Haul 'er Away" (a)
"John Kanaka"
"Leave Her, Johnny"
"Lower The Boat Down" (Colcord)
"Miss Lucy Loo"
"Ranzo Ray" (c)
"Roll, Boys, Roll"
{"Serafina"}
[Southern Ladies (fr. Sharp)]
("Stormy Along, John") cotton-screwing/capstan
"Walkalong You Sally Brown"
"'Way Stormalong John"
"Where Am I to Go, M'Johnnies"
"Yankee John, Stormalong"

Two Source Attestation:

"Bully In The Alley" 2: Sharp & Henry Lauder
"Can't Ye Hilo?" 2: Captain Robinson & Harding
"Coal Black Rosie" 2: Bullen & Harding
"Dixie Land" / "Sing A Song, Blow-Along O!" 2: Patterson & Tobago Smith
("Good Morning Ladies All" (a)) cotton-screwing/capstan 2: Sharp & Tobago Smith
"Good Morning Ladies All" (b)   2: Terry & West Indies seaman
"Heave Away, Cheerily O!" [sort of] (mock chorus) 2: Davis & Tozer, and Harlow
"High O, Come Roll Me Over" 2: Masefield & Harding
"Hilo Come Down Below" (Bullen) 2: Bullen & Harding
"John Cherokee" (Colcord) 2: Captain Robinson & Harding
"John, Come Tell Us As We Haul Away"/ "Mobile Bay" 2 (?): Hugill & Stanley Slade
"Knock A Man Down" 2: Sharp & Briggs, + "Blow the Man Down"
"Poor Lucy Anna" 2: Bullen & Sharp
"Roll The Woodpile Down" 2: Taylor Harris, Hugill
"Round the Bay of Mexico" 2: Hugill & Bahamas
"Sister Susan"/"Shinbone Al" 2: Bullen & Henry Lauder
"Stormalong, Lads, Stormy" 2: Sharp & Harding
"The Codfish Shanty" mock chorus 2: from Hugill
"Tiddy High O" 2: Sharp & Tobago Smith
"Tommy's Gone Away" (Sharp) 2: Terry & Hugill
"Tommy's on the Tops'l yard" 2: Masefield & Hugill
"The Gal With the Blue Dress On" 2: Davis/Tozer & Harding (L. Smith's "Slapandergosheka" ?)
"Walkalong, Miss Susiana Brown" 2: Colcord & Hugill
"Walk Along My Rosie" 2: Harding & Bullen
"Way, Me Susiana" 2: Doerflinger & Harding

Three Source Attestation:

"Across The Western Ocean" 3: CF Smith, Whall, C. Russell
"A Hundred Years Ago" (a) (b)/ "'Tis Time For Us To Go"
        3: Terry, R.C. Leslie(L.Smith), Hugill
"Billy Riley" 3: CF Smith, Colcord, Hugill
"Bunch O Roses" 3: Doerflinger/Silsbee, Harding, Bahamas
"Doodle, Let Me Go" 3: Terry, Sharp & Harding
"Fire Maringo" 3: Gosse, Erskine, Nordhoff
"Gimme My Banjo" 3: Doerflinger/ William Laurie & Silsbee, & Harding
"Goodbye, My Love, Goodbye" 3:CF Smith, Tozer, Colcord
"Hello, Somebody" 3: Captain Barker, Doerflinger, & Harding
"Hilo, Johnny Brown" 3: Hugill, Terry & Whall
"Hurrah, Sing Fare Ye Well" 3: Whall, Sampson, Hugill
"Sing Sally O" (b) 3: Sharp, Colcord, & Harding
"The Bully Boat"/"Ranzo Ray" (a) 3: Sharp, Terry, & Hugill
"Won't Ye Go My Way?" (one pull) 3: Sharp, Terry, & Hugill

Four Source Attestation:

"Hilonday" L. Smith (one pull) 4: Alden, L. Smith, Terry & Harding
"Pay Me the Money Down" 4: L. Smith, Henry Lauder, Harding, Georgia Sea Islanders
"Round The Corner Sally" 4: Dana, Terry, Sharp, & Harding
"So Early In The Morning" (a) 4+: / "Bottle O" CF Smith, Terry, Sharp, Hugill
"Walk Me Along, Johnny" / "General Taylor" (mock chorus) 4: Nordhoff, Sharp, Terry & Hugill

This is not an exhaustive analysis, but a beginning. It gives some sense of the frequency with which these chanties show up in the second half of the 19th century in publication.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:02 AM

And here are the chanties from the above mentioned list of call/response worksongs that have more than four attested publications:

"Leave Her, Johnny, Leave Her" (mock chorus) 2+: Bullen, Sharp,
"Tom's Gone To Hilo" Hugill (2+)

"Goodbye, Fare Ye Well" (mock chorus) 4+ Hugill (4),
"Hanging Johnny" 4+: Terry, Masefield, Doerflinger, Hugill

"So Handy, Me Boys" 5: L. Smith, Davis/Tozer, Sharp, Hugill (2)
"Fire Down Below" (a-b-c) 5+ Hugill (2), Sharp (2), Terry
"Hoorah For The Blackball Line" 5+: Sharp, Colcord, Hugill (3)
"Roll The Cotton Down" Hugill (5+), Adventure Magazine

"A Long Time Ago" 6+: Taylor Harris, Hugill (7 versions), Doerflinger/Tayluer, F.W. Wallace, Harding, Sharp,
"Clear the Track, Let the Bullgine Run" (mock chorus) 6+: Terry, Whall, Davis/Tozer, Sampson, Sharp, Hugill
"Run, Let The Bullgine Run" 6+: L.Smith, Terry, Bullen, Sharp, Colcord, Hugill

"Huckleberry Picking" / "We'll Ranzo Ray" 7+:Davis/Tozer, Bullen, Whall, Sharp, Doerflinger, Colcord, Hugill
["Mr. Stormalong"] cotton-stowing/capstan 7+: CF Smith, Terry, Sharp, Colcord, Doerflinger, Perry, Hugill
" Only One More Day" (mock chorus) 7+:Terry, Sharp, Bullen, Whall, Davis/Tozer, Colcord, Hugill
"South Australia" (mock chorus) 7: L. Smith, Colcord, Doerflinger,Georgia Sea Islanders, West Indies, Harlow, Hugill

["My Dollar And A Half A Day"/"Lowlands"] cotton-stowing/capstan 8+: Bullen, Whall, Sampson, Colcord, Doerflinger, Terry, Siegmeister, Hugill
"Heave Away My Johnnies" (cf. relation to "slave song" about Henry Clay) 8+: L. Smith, Terry, Doerflinger, Harlow, Colcord, Sharp, Davis/Tozer, Hugill

"Blow Boys, Blow" 10+: Doerflinger/Tayluer & Hathaway, Terry, Briggs, Sharp, Whall, L. Smith, Masefield, Hugill, Colcord

Chanties with numerous attestations:

"Hieland Laddie" (mock chorus)
"Knock A Man Down" 2: Sharp & Briggs, + "Blow the Man Down"
"Poor Old Man" / "Dead Horse"
"Rio Grande" (mock chorus)
"Sally Brown"
"Santiana" (mock chorus)
["Shallow Brown"] cotton-stowing/capstan
["Shenandoah" (and variations)] cotton-stowing/capstan
"Whisky Johnny"

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:15 PM

Here's an interesting followup note on "South Australia" from Tristan Jones' SAGA OF A WAYWARD SAILOR (scroll up just a tad for the verse):

http://books.google.com/books?id=WDD2e_gOpiQC&pg=PA214&dq=a+%22rolling+king%22&lr=&cd=5#v=onepage&q=a%20%22rolling%20king%22&f=f

And here's a note on the Mudcat thread about "Rolling King" from Russell the Miller:

thread.cfm?threadid=48959#794113

I haven't been able to find Tansy Lee's (1866-1958) whole song. It looks interesting.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:58 PM

From Tristan Jones' ADRIFT, here is Tansy Lee's (1866-1958) version of "Sally Brown":

http://books.google.com/books?id=HQfybxyQceoC&pg=PA153&dq=Sally+Brown+had+a+daughter,+Nellie&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Sally%20Brown%20ha

If he was born in 1866, it is conceivable that he was at sea by the early '80's.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:57 PM

Just by way of brainstorming, here is how "South Australia" sits in my mind. This is all just
speculation, of course.

It has the "feel" of an American song to me, consistent with the
music-culture to which pieces like "the fireman's "Fire Down Below" or
the minstrel-y "Camptown Races" belong. 1840s-50s era, perhaps.

This mix of "heave and haul" that people invariably sing nowadays
smell suspiciously "off." Pick one or the other. I realize that some
source mixed them (in Doerflinger? I forget at the moment) and there
may have been good reason for that, but from my experience it is
usually one of the other. At this point, the explanations just sound to me like rationalizing the from-one-book-and-then-perpetuated revival version. I'll choose "heave," though the song could work equally well for hauling.

I suspect the reference to South Australia was added to a pre-existing chantey framework.   For me personally, then, the geographic reference is a red herring if one wants to discover related songs. And I wouldn't be surprised if something on the same structure, without mentioning that place, turns up. I imagine something like this:

In Alabama I was born
CH: Heave away, heave away
Among the cotton and the corn
CH: We're goin' to Alabama!

Chorus:
Heave away you rolling king
Heave away, Heave away
Heave away you rolling king
We're goin' to Alabama!

I quite like it. I think I'll try singing that some time!

My speculation for "rolling king" is that this work song applied to a rolling operation-- either to rolling cotton bales (e,g, down to port) or to the "log rolling" of which we've heard.

Well, it can't be worse than Hugill's guess that "Ruler King" was a corruption of "Zulu King" in South Africa!

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:16 PM

And what is "this "Salambo" thing in the Caribbean?"

Abrahams, DEEP THE WATER, pg. 74. The Nevisian whalers sing "Oh My Rolling River" (Shenandoah family), with a distinctly "Sally Brown" lyrical theme to it. One of the verses is:

Salambó, I love your daughter,
Oh, my rolling river.
Salambó, this white mulatta,
We are bound away from this world of misery

Later in the song, the name "Sally" appears, too. It's unclear how Abrahams processed "Salambó" -- i.e., we don't know (?) whether he asked the guys, "Hey, is this just your funky pronunciation of 'Sally Brown'? How would you spell that? etc etc?"

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:54 PM

Hey, Gibb, thanks for the "Salambo". I hadn't noticed that. Would you believe that I have had something like this rolling around in my head for several days now!

"In Alabama I was born
CH: Heave away, heave away
Among the cotton and the corn
CH: We're goin' to Alabama!"

I think that's amazing. It was more like

Way down south where I was born,
Heave away, heave away
Among the cotton and the corn
We're goin to Lousy-Anna!

Here is a very interesting (non-chanty) song about going to "Lousy-Anna":

http://books.google.com/books?id=QCkmWbudCCsC&pg=PA104&dq=He+boun+for+Lousy-Anna&cd=1#v=onepage&q=He%20boun%20for%20Lousy-Anna&f

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:17 PM

"Fire Maringo" (!) as a rowing song, and a "Good Morning Ladies All" for corn-shucking. Note, however, that the author disassociates the two kinds of work/song.

PUTNAM'S MONTHLY, VOL V. January 1855. "Negro Minstrelsy - Ancient and Modern."

A few minutes pass, and the breeze once more wafts to me the swelling notes of the chorus half buried in the measured cadence of the oars. The wind dies away, and my straining ears again hear nothing but the measured beat of the rowers, and the plashing of the restless sea. But now, anew, I hear the sound of those manly negro voices swelling up upon the evening gale. Nearer and nearer conies the boat, higher and higher rises the melody, till it overpowers and subdues the noise of the oars, which in their turn become subservient to the song, and mark its time with harmonious beating. And now the boat is so near, that every word and every tone comes to my ear, over the water, with perfect distinctness, and I recognize the grand old triumphal chorus of the stirring patriotic melody of "Gen'el Jackson":

Gen'el Jackson, mighty man—
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away;
He fight on sea, and he fight on land,
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away.

Gen'el Jackson gain de day—
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away,
He gain de day in Floraday,
Whaw, my kingdom, flre away.

Gen'el Jackson fine de trail,
Whaw, my kingdom, flre away,
He full um fote wid cotton bale,
Whaw, my kingdom, fire away."

But the boat touches the beach; the negroes with a wild cry quit their singing, tumble out into the shallow water, drag their dug-out up high and dry upon the sand, and I am left once more with the evening breeze and the quieter harmony of nature.

The song, a part of which I have just quoted, is fresh from the sable mint in which it was coined. Its originality and genuineness every one familiar with plantation life will at once perceive; while some Georgians may even be able to point to the very river on which the dusky troubadours still chant it. I am well aware that in depriving the words of their appropriate music, I rob it of much of its attractiveness, and still it is no bad sample of what may be called the Historic Plantation Ballad. The particular naval battle in which Old Hickory was engaged, I have not been able to discover; but the allusion to the bales of cotton in the third stanza may not be widout its effect in settling one of the vexed questions relating to the defence of New Orleans; and it adds another to the many examples of the superiority of oral tradition over contemporaneous written history.

It is not alone, however, on the water that these quaint songs are produced. The annual corn-shucking season has its own peculiar class of songs, never heard but on that festival; their rhythmical structure or ceasural pauses not being adapted to the measured cadence of the oars. Standing at a little distance from the corn heap, on some dark and quiet night, watching the sable forms of the gang, illuminated at intervals by the flashes of the lightwood knot, and listening to the wild high notes of their harvest songs, it is easy to imagine ourselves unseen spectators of some secret aboriginal rite or savage festival. Snatches of one or two songs which on such occasions I have heard, recur to me. Could I in the following specimen give you any idea of the wild grandeur and stirring music of the refrain, I should need no apology for presenting it to my readers.

"De ladies in de parlor.
Hey, come a rollln' down—
A drinking tea and coffee ;
Good morning ladies all.

"De gemmen in de kitchen,
Hey come a rollln' down—
A drinking brandy toddy ;
Good morning, ladies all."

http://books.google.com/books?id=0YIIAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA77&dq=%22whaw,+my+kingdom%22&

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:50 PM

Those are my rowing songs for 1830s. Now, some firemen's songs from that decade. I am not sure of the exact nature of work of the (mainly Black) "firemen" on river steamboats. Were they shoveling in coal, as on a locomotive? Was it logs they threw into a furnace, down below? More info, please! Whatever the case, the environment evokes the phrase, "Fire down below."

THE RAMBLER IN NORTH AMERICA, 1832-1833, Vol 2., by CJ Latrobe, 1835.

Of a steamboat on the Ohio River, mentions "the wild song of the negro fire-men." (pg 281).

Next, a dramatic scene in BENTLEY'S MISCELLANY, vol 4, New York, Sept. 1839,
taking place in a steamboat. Here's the song.

"THE STOKER'S CHAUNT.
The ebben tide ib floating past,
Fire down below!
The arrival time ib coming fast.
Fire down below!
Racoon cry in de maple tree,
Fire down below!
The wood ib on fire, and the fire a sea,
Fire down below!
Oo a oo oh ! fire down below!"

A chaunty? It appears to be related to a "fire down below" chantey that will continue to appear in the 19th century. Here is a rendition of the chantey as culled by Hugill, if one would like to fit the above lyrics to the framework:

The Sailor Fireman

Incidentally, Hugill cited it as a possible source for the melody to the chantey "Sacramento."

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:50 PM

It's hard to know if there even was a "Tansy Lee," and if there was, what Jones may have learned from him. The recent bio by Anthony Dalton shows that Jones mostly wrote fiction, not fact.

Most (not all) of the shanty texts and fragments in his books seem to have been taken verbatim from Hugill.   The bawdy, non-shanty fragments presumably come from Jones's RN days in the '40s and '50s.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:52 PM

My last post meant to go to the "other" thread!!

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 09:07 PM

The General Jackson song is great because it shows "Fire Maringo!" was sued for both rowing and stowing, which means that it (or its "frame") was reasonably well known and not a one-off imprtovisation. Also, it eventually turned into "Santa Anna," a classic shanty. (With the evident substitution of "Monterrey" or "Floriday.") I believe Jackson's Tennessee militia was in West Florida in 1813 in the Red Stick War. Or so ISTR from Disney's Davy Crockett show.

So there's proof that the move from rowing and/or stowing to heaving happened at least once. Until Gibb's discovery, it was only a reasonable conjecture.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 09:40 PM

Mention of the singing of cotton-stowers/screwers occured in Savannah the 20s, above. Now in the 30s, we get an actual lyric.

John M.'s intro:

*snip*

And here is another early reference, that can be dated as December
31,1838. Phillip Henry Gosse, in his LETTERS FROM ALABAMA (1859), also
mentions the cotton-screwing shanty, "Fire the ringo" (page 305-306,
at the very end of his book):

*snip*

On the Alabama River, here is the passage:

I have been amused by observing the crew stowing the cargo. After what I said of the way in which the cotton is screwed into the bales, you would suppose that these were incapable of further compression. But it is not so. When the stowed bales in the hold are in contact with the upper deck, another layer has to be forced in. This is effected, bale by bale, by powerful jack-screws, worked by four men. When you see the end of the bale set against a crevice, into which you could scarcely push a thin board, you think it impossible that it can ever get in; and, indeed, the operation is very slow, but the screw is continually turned, and the bale does gradually insinuate itself.

The men keep the most perfect time by means of their songs. These ditties, though nearly meaningless, have much music in them, and as all join in the perpetually recurring chorus, a rough harmony is produced, by no means unpleasing. I think the leader improvises the words, of which the following is a specimen; he singing one line alone, and the whole then giving the chorus, which is repeated without change at every line, till the general chorus concludes the stanza:—

"I think I hear the black cock say,
    Fire the ringo, fire away !
They shot so hard, I could not stay;
    Fire the ringo ! fire away !
So I spread my wings, and flew away;
    Fire the ringo ! &c.
I took my flight and ran away ;
    Fire, &c.
All the way to Canaday;
    Fire, &c.
To Canaday, to Canaday,
    Fire, &c.
All the way to Canaday.
    Ringo ! ringo ! blaze away!
   Fire the ringo ! fire away!"

Sometimes the poet varied the subject by substituting political for zoological allusions. The victory over the British at New Orleans — that favourite theme with all Americans—was chosen. Thus:—

" Gin'ral Jackson gain'd the day ;
   Fire the ringo, &c.
At New Orleans he won the day;
    Fire the ringo, fire away!"

I wonder about the possible relationship between the cotton-screwing chants and the steamboat stoker's "chaunt" -- the chorus of "FIRE", on the proper beat, being the connecting feature.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 09:40 PM

oh GOD!! I did it again!!!



I need sleep.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:16 PM

Another good early text from the Riverside Magazine for Young People (April, 1868). Lloyd sang his personal version in "Moby Dick":

        As I walked out one mornin',
                Down by the Clarence Dock,--
        Chorus. Heave away, my Johnny, heave away!
        'Twas there I met an Irish girl,
                Conversin' with Tapscott.
        Full chorus. An' away, my Johnny boy, we're all bound to go!

        "Good mornin' to yer, Taspcott;
                Good mornin', sir," she said….
        An' Tapscott he was that perlite
                He smiled an' bowed his head….

        "Oh, have yer got a ship," she said,--
                "A sailin' ship," said she,--
        "To carry me, and Dadda here,
                Across the ragin' sea?"

        "Oh yes, I got a packet ship,
                Her name's the Henry Clay,"--
        "She's layin' down to the Waterloo Dock,
                Bound to Amerikay."

        Then I took out my han'kerchief
                An' wiped away a tear,--
        And the lass was that she said to me, [sic]
                So, fare ye well, my dear!

        Some times I'm bound to Africay
                Some times I'm bound to France,--
        But now I'm bound to Liverpool
                To give them girls a chance."

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:20 PM

Although I've never been a fan of Old Hickory, I'm glad to have the song about him here, even if he may have inadvertently strayed from the other thread. And I'm glad to know that I'm not the only only who loses posts and hits the wrong keys later in the evening.

Lighter, I wondered about Mr. Jones. As always I appreciate your critical sense of these things.

I have been trying once again to drag both "South Australia" and "Rio Grande" back into the 1850s. I've gone back over the literature on both of them and found really nothing more. With regard to "Rio" the 1868 article is still the one to beat. But Gibb's suggestions above are very evocative. I realized that I had fallen somewhere in between "Roll the Cotton Down" and "I'm Alabama Bound" (a riverboat song) and "Oh Susannah". I think both "SA" and "Rio" are hiding just beneath the surface here. The fluidity of these worksongs is beginning to do something to me. The tunes are beginning to move around along with the lyrics. But, I'm going to make sure this gets posted on *this* thread! I'll be interested to see what is where come morning.

I did just go back and check on the list of chanties from Captain John Robinson in THE BELLMAN, which Lighter put up, and "Rio Grande" is there! Any chance of posting those lyrics, Lighter? You say:

"Robinson, an Englishman, went to sea in 1859 at the age of 14. He was over 80 when his five-part article appeared in "The Bellman." Robinson writes that he learned a number of shanties on his first voyage, aboard the brigantine "Emily" to Catania in Sicily. His prime source was an old seaman named Will Halpin, "who had sailed the seas for sixty years, to all parts of the known globe." Halpin had sailed "on the Australian sailing ships during the gold rush, and again during the California rush....[H]e never missed an opportunity to sing his chanties."

Unfortunately Robinson doesn't say precisely which shanties he learned from Halpin. But he does give texts and tunes of the following, which he learned mostly on his first voyages."

This is at least suggestive of the possibility that "Rio" comes from the 60's if not earlier.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:10 PM

I've found the last missing date for the voyages of the "Julia Ann". On her third return voyage from Sydney to San Francisco, she arrived in San Francisco on April 12, 1855. Her voyage took 78 days. Here is the shipping notice:

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/newsucr/cgi-bin/newsucr?a=d&cl=search&d=DAC18550413.2.22&srpos=191&e=-------en-logical-20--181-byDA---Barque

And here is an advertisement for her first voyage in April of 1853:

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/newsucr/cgi-bin/newsucr?a=d&cl=search&d=SDU18530314.2.2.2&srpos=167&e=-------en-logical-20--161-byDA---JULIA

And here is the complete schedule of her voyages:

Voyage #1   
        Departed San Francisco April 12, 1853.
        Arrived in SydneyJune 22, 1853.
        Departed Sydney on or about August 25, 1853.
        Arrived in San Francisco on October 12, 1853.

Voyage #2
        Departed San Francisco on December 2, 1853.
        Arrived in Sydney on January 24, 1854.
        Departed Sydney on March 22, 1854.
        Arrived in San Pedro CA on June 13, 1854. (83 days)
       Arrived in San Francisco shortly thereafter.

Voyage #3
        Departed San Francisco July 26, 1854 for Puget Sound
       Departed Puget Sound October 8, 1854.
        Arrived in Sydney on December 5 1854.
        Cleared for San Francisco, via Newcastle on December 21, 1854
        Departed Newcastle for San Francisco on January 17, 1855
        Arrived in San Francisco on April 12, 1855 (78 days from         Sydney)

Final Voyage #4
        Departed San Francisco May 19th, 1855.
        Arrived in Sydney on July 24, 1855.
        Departed from Sydney on Friday, September 7th, 1855.
        Ran aground and sank off the Scilly Islands on October 3-4, 1855.  

I've just found this site for searching California newspapers. I've spent most of the day trying to find something on "chanties", "sea songs", "work songs", "sailor songs". But so far I have not turned up a thing! It is a bit frustrating because I haven't exactly figured out the best way to phrase my searches.           

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 05:45 PM

Reading through these old newspapers from San Francisco is interesting and exhausting. They talk about everything under the sun, except work songs on the docks or aboard the ships. And there were plenty of ships, and there was plenty of loading and unloading! But no songs. Here is one little reference to singing at the capstan from 1865 (under "Lover's Promenade"):

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/newsucr/cgi-bin/newsucr?a=d&cl=search&d=DAC18650605.2.2&srpos=2&e=-------en-logical-20--1-byDA---capstan+son

And here is an interesting little article from 1895 by an old fellow remembering "how it was" twenty-five years earlier (about 1870):

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/newsucr/cgi-bin/newsucr?a=d&cl=search&d=SFC18950420.2.146&srpos=1&e=-------en-logical-20--1----sea+shanty-al

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:58 AM

In October of 1852, just after Pond had purchased the "Julia Ann", she was sailed to Valparaiso on a shakedown cruise (October 13, 1852). Here is my original note about this:

thread.cfm?threadid=126347&messages=482#2809064

At the time i did not know what her return date to San Francisco was, but now I have found that it was February 12, 1853. Here is the shipping notice:

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/newsucr/cgi-bin/newsucr?a=d&cl=search&d=SDU18530214.2.15.2&srpos=6&e=-------en-logical-20--1-byDA---bark%2c+

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 03:46 PM

Lighter, here's another mystery revision in Dana that I've just come across. It is a second reference to "Round the Corner, *Sally*".   Here is the Google Book Search link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=BtgNAAAAIAAJ&q=%22Round+the+corner,+Sally%22&dq=%22Round+the+corner,+Sally%22&lr=&cd=26

I can't figure out where this passage is in the "normal" edition of Dana, but it's on p. 115 of the Kemble (1964) edition. Would you be able to check it out for us?

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:16 PM

In THE PRIVATE JOURNAL OF WILLIAM REYNOLDS: UNITED STATES EXPLORING EXPEDITION, 1838-1842, by William Reynolds, Nathaniel Philbrick, and Thomas Philbrick, there is mentioned, on page 97 (Penguin Edition), that

        "Many of the girls at Point Venus [Tahiti] have learned the chorus songs common with sailors in heaving up the Anchor & other work...Their voices were good, and the ditties of "So early in the morning the Sailor loves his bottle oh," "Round the corner, Sally," "Tally Ho, you know" & a dozen others were often heard along the beach for half the night." (sometime between September 18th & 24th, 1839)

Here is the link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=4fUTBBP6xRwC&pg=PA97&dq=%22Round+the+corner,+Sally%22&lr=&cd=18#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20co

Two of these songs are also mentioned by Dana: "Round the corner, Sally," and "Tally Ho, you know".

And here is a somewhat similar account from 1844, from Edward Lucett's book ROVINGS IN THE PACIFIC, FROM 1837 TO 1849. The event is recorded for August 19, 1844 at Huaheine, in the South Pacific. Lucett says,

        "I was desirous of procuring the original [words], and took a person well skilled in the language to write them down for me; when, to my great surprise, I discovered that both the words and the air were a beautiful modulation of our sailors' song of "Round the corner, Sally!" (p. 82)

Here is the link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XyQ9oaSfaMwC&pg=PA82&dq=%22Round+the+corner,+Sally%22&lr=&cd=20#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20co

In 1843, Dan Emmitt wrote and published a blackface minstrel song called "My Ole Aunt Sally". It has a concluding phrase in the chorus that goes "Ra, ree, ri, ro, round the corner, Sally." Here is the publication information:

http://books.google.com/books?id=MUQUAQAAIAAJ&q=%22My+Old+Aunt+Sally%22&dq=%22My+Old+Aunt+Sally%22&lr=&cd=15

And here is "My Old Aunt Sally":

http://books.google.com/books?id=zlMJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA383&dq=%22My+Old+Aunt+Sally%22&cd=6#v=onepage&q=%22My%20Old%20Aunt%20Sally%22

Once again, it is hard to know whether the chanty borrowed from the minstrel song or vice-versa. But since we have documentation that notes the existence of "Round the corner, Sally" as a chanty that predates Emmett's song, it may well be that he borrowed the phrase from the chanty. Or it may be that both the chanty and Dan Emmett borrowed the phrase from an earlier Black corn-shucking song, here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6frfZd0-1xkC&pg=PA68&dq=Round+the+corn,+sally&cd=4#v=onepage&q=Round%20the%20corn%2C%20sally&f=

I'm not sure of the dating on this, but it is another account of "Round the corn, Sally" as a corn-shucking song:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2ncAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA260&dq=Round+the+corn,+sally&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Round%20the%20corn%2C%20sally&f

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:12 AM

I was driven off line last night by the first Spring thunderstorm of the season. Given these early references to "Round the corner, Sally", which include two possible mentions by Dana, and the ones by Reynolds and Lucett, I am going to suggest that this chanty is one that *could* have been used on board the "Julia Ann" on her voyages in 1853-1855. I think that it is particularly significant that all three of these sources are from the Pacific/South Pacific area. And there is a sense that "Round the corner, Sally" is well-known and well-established as a ship-board working song. It is not so clear what the function of the song was at that point. It's also not clear what the relationship was to the later (?) blackface minstrel song by Dan Emmett called "My Ole Aunt Sally". And the same is true with regard to the corn-shucking song about "Round the corn, Sally".

It does seem that this phrase, "round the corner, Sally", from one or all three of these sources (chanty, blackface, corn-shucking) became a popular saying. Here are two examples. The first is from 1873, from REMINISCENCES OF THE LEWS; TWENTY YEARS' WILD SPORT IN THE HEBRIDES, by "Sixty-One":

http://books.google.com/books?id=K_cPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA183&dq=%22Round+the+corner,+Sally%22&lr=&cd=33#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20c

And the second one, from a much later book (which seems to be incorporating earlier material ?), by Ralph Moody about the Overland Stage travel called STAGECOACH WEST (1967):

http://books.google.com/books?id=OX4lEodmmMkC&pg=PA122&dq=%22Round+the+corner,+Sally%22&lr=&cd=24#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20c

With regard to the last reference I am keeping in mind Lighter's principles of critical research and not basing any conclusions on this reference about earlier historical evidence. Finally, here is one other reference to "Round the corn, Sally" in relation to corn-shucking in 1848 (from the South):

http://books.google.com/books?id=PCpKAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA287&dq=%22Round+the+corn,+sally%22&lr=&cd=23#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20cor

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:54 AM

John-

I have you to thank for plunging me again (for hours!) into the world of on-line minstrel songs with your reference to "Storm Along, Stormy." Again, we don't know which came first but there are certainly more elements in this old minstrel song that resonate stevedore work at the cotton docks. Here's the whole song copied and pasted (and re-edited):

As sung by J. Smith of White's Serenaders at the Melodeon, New York City, from White's New Ethiopian Song Book, published by T.B. Peterson & Bros., Philadelphia, US, © 1854, p. 71,

Storm Along Stormy

O I wish I was in Mobile bay,
Storm along, Stormy!
Screwing cotton all de day,
Storm along, Stormy!
O you rollers storm along,
Storm along, Stormy!
Hoist away an' sing dis song --
Storm along, Stormy!

I wish I was in New Orleans,
Storm along, Stormy!
Eating up dem pork an' beans,
Storm along, Stormy!
Roll away in spite ob wedder,
Storm along, Stormy!
Come, lads, push all togedder,
Storm along, Stormy!

I wish I was in Baltimore,
Storm along, Stormy!
Dancing on dat Yankee shore,
Storm along, Stormy!
One bale more, den we'be done,
Storm along, Stormy!
De sun's gwan down, an' we'll go home.
Storm along, Stormy!

The eight-line format was in the minstrel song as printed, and does make it potentially more interesting to sing than a standard four-line format. I'll have to see if I can find some sheet music on-line.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 10:53 AM

Here's the version from Nordhoff with his notes for "Old Stormy":

From Charles Nordhoff, The Merchant Vessel: a sailor boy's voyages to see the world, published by Moore, Wilstach, Keys & Co., Cincinnati, US, © 1856, p. 41

"The chants, as may be supposed, have more of rhyme than reason in them. The tunes are generally plaintive and monotonous, as are most of the capstan tunes of sailors, but resounding over the still waters of the Bay, they had a fine effect. There was one, in which figured that mythical personage "Old Stormy," the rising and falling cadences of which, as they swept over the Bay on the breeze, I was never tired of listening to. It may amuse some of my readers to give here a few stanzas of this and some other of these chants. "Stormy" is supposed to have died, and the first song begins:

Old Stormy

Old Stormy, he is dead and gone,
Carry him along, boys, carry him along,
Oh! carry him to his long home,
Carry him to the burying-ground.

Oh! ye who dig Old Stormy's grave,
Carry him along, boys, carry him along,
Dig it deep and bury him safe,
Carry him to the burying-ground.

Lower him down with a golden chain,
Carry him along, boys, carry him along,
Then he'll never rise again,
Carry him to the burying-ground.

Grand Chorus:

Way-oh-way-oh-way—storm along,
Way—you rolling crew, storm along stormy.

And so on ad infinitum, or more properly speaking, till the screw is run out."

So, which came first, the stevedore chant or the minstrel song?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:50 PM

Lighter has given us the earliest version of "Santa Anna" with lyrics here:

thread.cfm?threadid=126347&messages=488#2861446

It comes from:

{1862} From Rev. Thomas H. Stacy, "Rev. Otis Robinson Bacheler, M.D., D.D., FIFTY-THREE YEARS A MISSIONARY TO INDIA, printed on shipboard during a voyage from Boston to Calcutta.

Here is a mention of singing "On Plains of Mexico" from the Battle of Ft. Sumter, S.C. in 1861:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UdACAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA616&dq=%22On+the+plains+of+Mexico%22&lr=&cd=102#v=onepage&q=%22On%20the%20pla

And here is a reference to listening to "All on the Plains of Mexico" being sung on board the "Pam Flush" on her way to New York, in *May of 1856*, from A BUILDER OF THE WEST: THE LIFE OF GENERAL WILLIAM JACKSON PALMER, by John Stirling Fisher, Chase Mellen (1981).

http://books.google.com/books?id=_OXRs_WmAY4C&pg=PA49&dq=%22Mister+Storm+roll+on%22&cd=1#v=onepage&q=%22Mister%20Storm%20roll%20

I'm sure I've seen this reference before, but I don't think it registered on me how early it is. Here is the full quote:

        "He listens to their songs and shanties, "musical but after a certain wild mood that is very appropriate to the words and the scene:

        "Hi yi, yi, yi, Mister Storm roll on, Storm Along, Storm Along," or "All on the Plains of Mexico," or the wildest and prettiest of all, which ends - "Aha, we're bound away, on the wild Missouri." (p. 49)

        Not only do we have an early reference to "All on the Plains of Mexico", but as far as I know, this is the earliest reference to a version of "Shenandoah" as well. And we have another reference to "Storm Along".

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:28 PM

John, the Dana passage appears at the very end of Ch. XV of the book, and was revised and shortened before the 1840 publication. Dana and some shipmates are visiting the forecastle of the "Lagoda" at San Diego. The full passage is as follows (p. 115):


"One of their first inquiries was for Father Taylor, the seamen's preacher in Boston. Then followed questions about people of a different character and less hon[ora]bl[e] walk than Father Taylor, whom my shipmate, who was an old sailor, could tell them more about than I could. With him they compared notes about Liverpool, Havre, Tybee Light, Boodle Alley, Collier's Reach, 'Round the corner Sally, and so forth, conversation which one must always hear in a ship's forecastle and which, bad as it is, is no worse, nor, indeed, more gross, than that of many well-dressed young gentlemen at their clubs."

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:49 PM

A fairly late allusion to shanties that has both Sallies in one song:

Henry John Webber, "The Voyagers' Companion and Adviser" (London: The Author, 1885) p. 20:

"About every four hours the sailors had to pump the ship; they always did so about half-past seven in the evening, when they would lighten their labours with a song. All their songs were celebrated for strong choruses, but for what else, I will leave you to judge by the following specimens. The burden of one of them was an illustrious lady rejoicing in the name of Brown, the chorus of which was:--

                Sally! Sally! round the corner, Sally Brown!
                Hi! hi! hi! hi! round the corner, Sally!

        No less sublime and beautiful is the following effusion:--

                Huzza! huzza! huzza! my boys, huzza!
                Then fare you well, my bonnie brown gal,
                        Britannia rules the main!

        This is highly patriotic:--

                Victoria! Victoria ! very well done, Jim Crow-o-o!
                Victoria ! Victoria! very well done, Jim Crow!

        The beauty and romance of the following must be apparent to every intelligent observer :—
                Yankee John, storm along;
                        Hurrah for Liza Lee!
                Yankee John, storm along;
                        Hurrah for Liza Lee!"

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 06:18 AM

Lighter, thanks for the continued work on Dana (revised). So this turns out to not be a reference to "Round the Corner, Sally", the chanty, but perhaps a 'round the corner, Sally', "Sally". If so, it does finally document that use of the phrase. Hugill refers to "round the corner" Sallies, but this is the first actual use I've seen. I think that there is some significance to the fact that Dana was acquainted with both this use and *a* version of the song. What sense do you make out of the rest of the list?

And thanks for the soup pot of mixed metaphor chanties! Wow, if we ever doubted the fluidity of this process, this example should be somewhat convincing. It is hardly surprising to find Sally Brown around the corner. But Victoria with Jim Crow!

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:47 AM

John-

The "list" by which I assume you mean:

"With him they compared notes about Liverpool, Havre, Tybee Light, Boodle Alley, Collier's Reach, 'Round the corner Sally, and so forth"

appear to me to be "sailortown" references:

"Liverpool" and "Harve" being major port cities,

"Tybee Light" being the landmark light house off Savanna, Georgia, but also possibly a well known local tavern,

"Boodle Alley" and the like a typical sailortown streets lined with taverns, dance halls, houses of prostitution, and establishments that provided accessory needs.

It also makes sense that some of these "places" would also be celebrated in sea songs.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 10:31 AM

Thanks, Charlie. An interesting list.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 12:31 PM

"Here is a version of "Row, Bullies Row" from 1857. It is in THE KNICKERBOCKER, VOL L., 1857, in an article entitled "The Life of a Midshipmen", by "John Jenkins" (?). He is at the Brooklyn Naval Yard and is being rowed out to his first assignment on board the US Frigate "Shenandoah". It is presented as a rowing song:

'Oh! I do love that good, old bottle!
   Row, bullies, row!
Oh! I do love that good, old bottle!
   Row, my bullies, row!
Why do yo love that good, old bottle?
   Row, my bullies, row!
I love it 'cause it suits my throttle!
    Row, my bullies, row!
I love it 'cause it suits my throttle!
    Row, my bullies, row!

   After singing five more verses in the same elegant strain, we happened to pass a bum-boat, in which were seated a fat, old white woman and a negro boy, whereupon the singers roared out with great glee, and in a higher key than before:

'Yonder sits a dear old lady!
    Row, my bullies, row!
Yonder sits a dear old lady!
   Row, my bullies, row!
How do you know she is a lady?
    Row, my bullies, row!
How do you know she is a lady?
    Row, my bullies, row!
I know her by her nigger baby!
    Row, my bullies, row!
I know her by her nigger baby!"   
    Row, my bullies, row!                      (p.11)

Here is the link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ybXPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA11&dq=%22O+Shenandoh+my+bully+boy%22&lr=&cd=10#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 01:58 PM

Interesting text in that last link, John. I would assume the framework of the chantey is that of what we usually now call "Blow, Boys, Blow" -- not to be confused with the forebitter-ish "Row/Roll, Bullies, Row/Roll."

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 02:25 PM

That's how it sounded to me, too, Gibb. It's an interesting juxtaposition with a rowing song. And I see I messed up the transcription when I re-typed it. It alternates "Row, bullies row!" with "Row, my bullies, row!" So, just for form, let me re-issue this:

"Oh! I do love that good, old bottle!
   Row, bullies, row!
Oh! I do love that good, old bottle!
   Row, my bullies, row!
Why do you love that good, old bottle?
    Row, bullies, row!
Why do you love that good, old bottle?
   Row, my bullies, row!
I love it 'cause it suits my throttle!
   Row, bullies, row!
I love it 'cause it suits my throttle!
    Row, my bullies, row!

   After singing five more verses in the same elegant strain, we happened to pass a bum-boat, in which were seated a fat, old white woman and a negro boy, whereupon the singers roared out with great glee, and in a higher key than before:

'Yonder sits a dear old lady!
   Row, bullies, row!
Yonder sits a dear old lady!
   Row, my bullies, row!
How do you know she is a lady?
   Row, bullies, row!
How do you know she is a lady?
    Row, my bullies, row!
I know her by her nigger baby!
    Row, bullies, row!
I know her by her nigger baby!   
    Row, my bullies, row!"

That's better. Sometimes I get cross-eyed with my cutting and pasting!

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 09:48 PM

John-

Interesting, and maybe it was the seed that germinated in someone's brain to become the forebitter. But other than "row, bullies, row" there's nothing in common.

It also has an apparent connection to "The Sailor Loves his bottle oh!"

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: John Minear
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 07:45 AM

Here is a reference to the hauling/halyard chanty "Whiskey for Johnny!" being used to "pull round the yards" on board of the packet ship "Mary Bradford" on a cruise from London to New York, from the book THE REAL EXPERIENCES OF AN EMIGRANT:

        "The passengers assisted the sailors to pull round the yards - a work of great difficulty. It was done by a series of pulls - thus: one man took hold of the rope and stood on the spar of the bulwark, singing a few words of a song - I could not make them out - the others called out, "Whisky for Johnny!" and gave a simultaneous haul, when the yard came round an inch or two, and so they continued until the sail was sheeted home." (p. 39)

http://books.google.com/books?id=tHkFAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA39&dq=Whiskey+Johnny&lr=&cd=160#v=onepage&q=Whiskey%20Johnny&f=false

The frustrating thing about this reference is that there is no publication date that I can find for the book other than "187?". And like a lot of these accounts, the writer chooses to *not* give a date for his experience! I have yet to understand this, unless it is a way of covering up a fiction. It makes me suspicious right off. He says, "On Saturday, the --day of June, 18--, I embarked on board the "Mary Bradford," then lying in the basin of the London Docks, and bound for New York." (p. 5)

There certainly was a "Mary Bradford", and she was one of the "Swallow-Tail Line of Packet Ship", sailing every alternate Thursday from New York and London. Here is an advertisement from 1859:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5ubQAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA25&dq=ship+%22Mary+Bradford%22&lr=&cd=20#v=onepage&q=ship%20%22Mary%20Bra

She was launched in October of 1854 at Warren, Rhode Island, and immediately sailed for Mobile. (bottom, p. 5)

http://books.google.com/books?id=750AAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA209&dq=ship+%22Mary+Bradford%22&lr=&cd=15#v=onepage&q=ship%20%22Mary%20Br

And on July 5, 1855, she was struck by lightning at Battery Wharf in Boston!

http://books.google.com/books?id=qJEEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA582&dq=ship+%22Mary+Bradford%22&cd=1#v=onepage&q=ship%20%22Mary%20Bradford%22

While it is a somewhat shaky guess, I would say that this reference to "Whiskey for Johnny!" *could* be located in the later 1850s. It seems to place it in the packet trade. However, this chanty has quite a reputation for being used on board the packet ships. It is strange that this is the only reference I have been able to find that really confirms that, so far. All of the other solid references to "Whiskey Johnny" are later.

There are a couple of general references to "Whiskey Johnny" being sung on board the clipper ships in the Gold Rush of 1849, leaving the eastern ports, but they are too general and could easily be reconstructed memories.

Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 08:28 AM

John-

The intriguing thing about "Whiskey Johnny" et al to me is the reference to "whiskey" rather than "rum." Although the Scots manufactured whiskey, I believe it's the North Americans that made the beverage a national drink and a popular term. And I suspect the Gold Rush crowd were particularly inspired to extoll its virtues in verse.

Oh, and congratulations for initiating a scholarly thread that now has chalked up 500 posts (if someone hasn't just beat me to it!).

Cheerily,
Charley Noble