Bring back the piano in pubs...please

Subject: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:01 PM

OK OK! So I know I am probably outnumbered by you hundreds of brilliant guitarists and players of other easily portable instruments...
But...at an acoustic night in our area, there is no piano in the pub.Not unusual and I understand that they are very temperamental instruments to keep in a pub environment. Plus they take up valuable space.
I have a stage piano. It is very neat, unobtrusive and portable. It sounds VERY similar to a traditional piano. It does not sound like a keyboard when on its piano setting. It has weighted keys and can sound very expressive and non plonky...(its true, I swear!) I would really really like to play my piano for one or two songs at the acoustic nights, sometimes. BUT IT NEEDS ELECTRICITY....shock horror!!!! AT an ACOUSTIC NIGHT???? I hear you cry, how dreadful!!!
I don't play loudly when I am singing without a mic because I don't have a particularly strong voice. I would really like to take my piano, just every now and then, sing a nice piano ballad or do a bit of traditional ragtime piano or similar. I don't like playing at the open mics with my piano because I don't like loads of effects putting on it for just piano songs. The acoustic nights are lovely relaxed evenings with less pressure than at open mics.
If there was a piano, (in tune!) in the pub I go to, I would love to play it rather than lugging my stage piano along...but there isn't.
Is there ANYONE out there who can see my point that, although it uses electricity, playing my piano is not quite the same as playing a keyboard with amps etc???
I also play accordion (fairly quietly, honest!) but I really love my piano and would like the chance to add another instrument's sound, just SOMETIMES to the wealth of lovely music that goes on locally.
This thread is not to get at anyone...but can ANYONE see my point of view...I'd play really quietly, honest!!! Should I be allowed to take it, or will it make players of other electric instruments see it as giving them permission to take along their instruments too?
I WOULD like to play my piano just sometimes for my mates to hear and join in with.
If there is no piano in a pub, is taking along a similar instrument and playing it so it sounds virtually the same, really that terrible?!
Keep music live!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:11 PM

"BUT IT NEEDS ELECTRICITY....shock horror!!!! AT an ACOUSTIC NIGHT???? I hear you cry, how dreadful!!!"

The microphoes are electric. Don't worry about it.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:37 PM

In these enlightened days of PELs you are fortunate to have a pub to have a session in ! But if there IS a suitable power point , I cant see any problem with you having a piano plugged in and running at a sensible level of volume .

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:51 PM

I agree that our area is lucky to have live music sessions. They are great. I am grateful to those who keep organising them.
In the acoustic nights I go to, there are no mics and no electricity used for the music as it stands at present.
If I could use my piano, I would play it as though it was of the normal non-electric variety. Just as a replacement for the lack of a traditional piano being present. I would not use an amp, just the inbuilt speakers only. The acoustic nights are low volume music so it would be sufficient.
Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated!
I do play keyboard sometimes, plus accordion but I think it is sad that there is very little traditional piano heard these days and would like to just do my bit to keep the poor old instrument being heard in a way other than a classical recital situation. Well...OK I am just being selfish and would like to play my piano in t'pub!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: gnomad
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:01 PM

Played with proper regard for the room, and other performers, an electric piano is OK by me.

I came to this position about 2 years ago, when I found four visitors bringing one in when I arrived for a regular session, at which I am sometimes the "host". Had I been asked ahead of time I (like most acoustic types) would doubtless have discouraged them, the room gets quite crowded, and is mainly a singaround venue. The foursome had two other, non-electronic, instruments. They had travelled, I'm a softy, I decided to give it a try.

The group turned out to be accomplished musicians. Their contribution to the evening reflected their classical background, but they adapted well to a folky session, keeping the electric piano to the sort of level reached by a real one, and they seemed to enjoy themselves.

I concluded that the electronic piano need not be a pariah, any more than a banjo, accordion, or bodhran should. The crucial bit with all of them is that in the wrong hands they can be awful, just as they can be wonderful when in sympathetic hands.

As for real pianos, I feel they would be unlikely to survive a year in most pubs (certainly not in a condition to be played) and that cost, upkeep, and space considerations probably account for their demise.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: GUEST,ken
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:09 PM

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00022IBOS/ddsi-20/103-7078744-2375043?de

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: GUEST,ken again
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:12 PM

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00022IBOS/ddsi-20/103-7078744-2375043?dev-t=D3E49ECS9E0KO%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Kaleea
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:19 PM

An electrified piano is terrific for sessions, especially for pubs! It needs no tuner, takes up less space, & can be used for most all varieties of Music. The first time I ever played in a ceili band it was because I could play "boom chuk" style piano.   The button accordian player loved it cause he said it reminded him of being in a session back home.

As a purist, I stayed away from elec for many years, then when it came time to replace my piano I got an electric one. (gasp--! shock & awe) I don't need no stinking tuner, it can be moved much easier & without me wincing about scratches when it's moved.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:26 PM

Personally, I hate the piano in folk music. But for blues it is of course different. However, down here in Kent there is a blind keyboard wizard called Clive Lever (he posts here from time to time as "Wild Rover") and he is always welcome in any folk club or singaround with his keyboards. I know of one and one only (very accomplished) guitarist-singer who objects to Clive joining in with him.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:16 PM

heh heh heh... if you can't find a piano you can always use an upright organ... heh heh heh (DARFC)...

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:57 PM

Story time...

At a Sunday afternoon session we used to have in Pensacola, a couple showed up one day, he with fiddle and guitar in hand and she schlepping an electric piano. You could hear the hackles of the acoustic purists rising at the prospect of anything electric being played at our session. (Particularly since several of us had once run an open mike and had been "burned" by letting people play keyboards on the promise that they'd keep it "very acoustic sounding".)

Anyway, the couple introduced themselves and he explained that he was a working fiddler who had a regular gig with an Alabama-based bluegrass band, but that he had grown up playing more traditional tunes, had heard about our session and had decided to drop in and play some music for fun for a change. We took turns leading off tunes and the young lady refrained from playing the piano until it was her husband's turn to lead off, whereupon they launched into a scorching set of Cape Breton reels on fiddle and piano that totally floored everyone there. Most of us had heard Cape Breton style piano accompaniment on records, but it was the first time any of us had actually heard it live, much less gotten to play with someone who could do it. The doubters very quickly got over their doubts, embraced the piano despite its need of electricity and it wound up being the best and most memorable session we had during the two-years we had them at that location.

I guess my point is don't let other people's preconceptions about the instrument influence your willingness to play it in front of them. You know whether or not your playing style is appropriate for the venue and the audience. Just do it and if people have preconceptions, change them.

By the way, the fiddler and pianist at that session were J.P. Cormier and his wife Hilda Chiasson-Cormier, names which meant nothing to us at the time. It was about a year later that things started to click for them and J.P.s rise to the top of the Celtic music pile began.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 01:43 AM

Of course the issue now with having a conventional piano in pub is that is classed as an 'entertainment facility' and is illegal without the pub first applying for Premises Licence entertainment permission from the local authority.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: GUEST,J C
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 03:15 AM

Sounds like a great recipe for turning Music into Muzak - if that's what you want.
Aren't bodhrans destructive enough for you?

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 03:28 AM

The pub piano was a wonderful institution. The old ladies sitting on the benches round the wall at the Brit at Irlam's o'th' Height used to sway in time to the songs, forcing us youths (youths were only allowed in the best room) to sway with them.

The piano itself had several keys inoperative or severely out of tune- the regular pianist knew which ones these were, and carefully avoided them. Which made it fun when a stand-in pianist was playing.

Sadly, a couple of years before the dual carriageway swept the lot away, the best room and the gold-watch-and-chain parlour were knocked into one, and the piano disappeared, replaced by a gambling machine.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:41 AM

Well Rockhen, you have the choice at Market Rasen Folk Club, Piano or your keyboard using electricity, and I positively encourage your keyboard playing as it is so nice. It adds an extra dimension to the music played all evening. The same applies to Gwenda and Jane who both use their keyboards at MRFC.

Keep music, piano's and keyboards alive.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:44 AM

Rockhen, what about running it off a car battery? I know they're heavy and it's another thing to lug, but with a mains converter (or whatever you call them) you should be able to get it to talk to your keys and power them up. My partner once made me an external battery-pack out of some rechargeable nickel cadmium batteries (now surpassed by better types) which was smaller and more portable than a car battery, though less powerful. I think he used a mains lead that he got from a car shop or a boat-accessories supplier (it was a long time ago) but it worked.

If people give you a hard time about being "electric" it probably means they're afraid of getting blasted out by amplification. Point out to them politely that you're only going to sing ACOUSTICALLY over the sound coming out of the keyboard's built-in speakers, which in fact can be turned down to a quiet level. They often don't realise this and assume you're going to start hauling out mics & amps & speakers.

This was many years ago, but: I once caught an unbelievably hard time from one of the regulars (not the organiser) in a club where we were the booked guests, for daring to bring in an electronic piano. I hadn't seen anyone so rude and insulting in a long time, much less been the target of it. But after the gig - in which I had sung acoustically over the traditional organ & harmonium voices plus the piano and the harpsichord - he was apologetic and embarrassed.

Play your piano whenever and wherever you can, and enjoy it. The best way to eradicate prejudices is to show, not tell. And the best thing to do with all that music locked up in your piano is to let it free!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:48 AM

Enjoyed reading the replies,(re the Barbie piano link...is it available in other colours? Pink just isn't my colour LOL!)

"Played with proper regard for the room, and other performers, an electric piano is OK by me." I agree with this..especially if you substitute 'electric piano' with the words 'musical instrument'.

Also, likewise with... "The crucial bit with all of them is that in the wrong hands they can be awful, just as they can be wonderful when in sympathetic hands."

I have listened to some wonderful musicians play all sorts of instruments. I have also heard some dreadful 'attacks' on instruments...people playing instruments with no awareness of others and the time and place they are playing.

In my humble opinion, your musical instrument should almost become part of you when you play, you should play it with feeling, empathy towards the venue, audience and occasion. When I take my accordion to sessions, I join in quietly and try to compliment rather than compete with the music. I am not saying that I am a perfect,virtuous, never make a mistake, performer, just that I do try to consider others. I have heard some accordion players blast everyone's eardrums and drown quieter instruments out.

So if boogie piano is required, fine, likewise with a classical piece or piano ballad...
All I would like to have, is the opportunity to use my piano in the place of an absent 'real' one.

"As a purist, I stayed away from elec for many years, then when it came time to replace my piano I got an electric one." The electric piano has advanced tremendously, I am very fortunate (in my piano-loving view, anyway!)to have an upright piano, plus keyboards, an old Clavinova and a quite recently acquired stage piano. I also thought that an electric piano would be a poor replacement for a traditional one, but with weighted keys and the opportunity to even alter the amount they are weighted, to suit the player, I think they have a very well-justified place as a decent instrument.

Thanks for replying. Good to hear what others think.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:50 AM

Thanks Villan and Bonnie...just reading your replies as I must have posted mine at the same time!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:57 AM

Thanks for your support, Villan! Hugely appreciated as always!

Bonnie, I sympathise with your "I once caught an unbelievably hard time from one of the regulars"...Maybe we should all keep more open minds about music. I don't like music to have strict boundaries between genres...without people experimenting and trying new things, I guess we would all be still bashing a home-made drum.

Aggggghhhhh not getting at drummers....honest!

I like the point about "If people give you a hard time about being "electric" it probably means they're afraid of getting blasted out by amplification. Point out to them politely that you're only going to sing ACOUSTICALLY over the sound coming out of the keyboard's built-in speakers, which in fact can be turned down to a quiet level. They often don't realise this and assume you're going to start hauling out mics & amps & speakers." I agree, because negativity and prejudice is often because people don't know what to expect.
Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 06:01 AM

I encourage you. Just because it's electric, it doesn't have to be loud or bad. Only the ignorant (people with a narrow range of experiences) will think so.

I'm a keyboard trained person myself - piano, harpsichord, organ (pipe, electric and electronic), harmonium, etc. I also have an old fashioned portable Excelsior 'reed accordion' keyboard - 1930-60 vintage - reeds manufactured by Excelsior, apparently, which has an electric blower, and a Bass key setup similar to a piano accordion. I tend to prefer the piano accordion myself these days. I also have a range of other instruments.

The problem with lugging a collection of unusual and odd musical junk to a night, is that they are often so popular, that you end up having time for just one or two tunes, and that is barely enough to demonstrate the flexibility of style and range that can be performed.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 06:04 AM

i missed the chance years ago to get a Clavinichord designed for playing in a rock band - it had built in pickups - severely regret it now...

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 06:15 AM

Thanks Foulestroupe!
It would be nice if you could buy a 'light' piano, wouldn't it?!
Still it saves me having to go weight training lol!

I play my piano in a 'rock' type band occasionally, it is very versatile and comparitively light. Being a mere female, I can still carry it with one hand and just about manage the accordion in the other!
I also use it to accompany a classical cellist and to play in a wide variety of other circumstances.
I like variety at music sessions and although I DO like to hear guitarists, (and am not having a dig at them!) I am always pleased if a few other musicians have turned up so I can hear them play, too.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 06:33 AM

Best wishes to you from harriwattsband members. As you know our bass man plays quietly through a small amp when in 'acoustic' company plus it is far less imposing than a large double bass would be. Musical variety should be what it's all about and, in your case, a piano is a great instrument either solo or in the mix.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 06:42 AM

Thanks for that HPB!The musical balance between you guys was spot on, when we heard you. Here's to the "musical variety" you mention!

(BTW When are you gigging this side of the water, again?! Or was it so scary that you need to build up to crossing the bridge for the Faldingworth gig?!)

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Tequila Sunrise
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:07 AM

Blimey, you were up early!

Found the site you mentioned last night, as you can see.

And I have to say I really wish that you were allowed to bring your electric piano along to the acoustic night. The car battery idea might work......., no plug needed.

Seriously, there's a plethora of guitarists, and being able to add some piano at an 'acoustic' level would certainly add some colour and variety. How many of the regulars at the pub have you asked, and how many are against it?

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:23 AM

It'll probably be those with least musical talent - it takes talent to recognise it in others.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:24 AM

I have on several occasions taken a battery-operated keyboard to sessions and played it during the tunes. Now I generally just take the English concertina, but the regulars still ask - where is the piano - bring it along next time! So there is plenty of appreciation of pianos out there in the music world.
Mary

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:44 AM

Are you bringing it up to Market Rasen Folk Club Mary when you come up? :-)

I was trying to get them HarriWatts Boys to come and support Cara on theer night, but they politely declined. Shame really cause it would have been luvvly to have both of them on on the same evening :-)

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:43 AM

I think those HarriWatts Boys are scared of us south of the bridge folk..!They were great when they came to the club and looking forward to hearing them when they do their spotlight guest appearance...

Good luck to everyone on Friday. I know it will be another great night, sorry we can't be there.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:46 AM

Whoops...just highjacked my own thread...meant to put this on the Market Rasen Folk one, Doh!
I blame the Villan...you started it! LOL

So...the piano's place in pubs..?
(ok ok...I've heard the 'on the fire' jokes already!!!)

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 07:39 AM

What's the difference between a guitar and a piano?


The piano burns longer.




What's the difference between a piano and a harpsichord?

The piano burns longer, but the harpsichord is a better class of instrument.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 10:39 AM

I have a piano (electric one) and I dont care if people dont like it

the fact is I DO   !! (but I cant actually play it yet !!!)

but when I have got a few tunes sorted I will DEFINITELY be taking it to some of the clubs some of the time. Andy Smythe (Kent) takes his with him and plays excellently, I cant see the problem ?

Just as long as its not "rock o mania loud" then it will be nice - after all (and sorry for saying this to all yous out there) the GUITAR is just a little overplayed, isn't it ??? Many Many clubs I go to have at least six or seven guitars, boring boring boring, so bring on something different !!!

Jo Jo
([e-mail])

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 10:50 AM

Guitars are sexy because they look like a well rounded woman and you can pluck their strings!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 01:59 PM

Hey dont go encouraging her to play a bloody piano!
This is my accordionist we are talking about and the only thing that makes me sound good on my songs is that she isnt allowed a piannee in the pub.
It does distress me that there is such a level of ignorant and stupid bigotry towards musical instruments in sessions,take the constant digging there is by very sad bar stewards at bodrhans all the time.
Voice drum whistle harp in that order are the first instruments in existance never mind bloody tradition.
And I might add there is nought so drearisome as this insistance on playing English Trad folk at clubs where there is no chance of any bugger being alive enough to dance. most struggle to mumble a chorus.
So piano in Pub? Great as long as you only sit around it and put beer on it. HE he I will suffer for this

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 02:13 PM

Harp invented before bones? Get away you young whippersnapper.

Nowt wrong with listening to lively tunes when you can no longer shake a leg. Dirges, though, they can be drearisome (or dreary if you will).

MATRON! I think I'm ready for my teeth now, the porridge looks splendid.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 03:42 PM

Shouldn't you leave them out untill you finish it?

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Bert
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 04:31 PM

My Mum used to play the piano in a pub. But that was back in the day when every pub had a piano. It should be mandatory nowadays, you shouldn't be able to call it a pub if it doesn't have a piano.

And what's this old Codswallop about electricity. It's been around long enough now to be traditional.

So take yer ol' Joanna along and plug it in and if they complain then that gives you the right to complain about every song that was written after electrical power came into use.

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 04:41 PM

I thought I covered the bones with the whistle bit?

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 04:45 PM

Shanty Jack is very good at playing the Bones!!!!!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 04:58 PM

Bring back - Winifred Atwell and Russ Conway and Jerry Lee Lewis and Fats Domino and Floyd Cramer - oh my god that dates me LOL

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Stewart
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:21 PM

Try the Taybank Music Bar in Dunkeld, Scotland. It's a small pub, but there's a piano in one corner with house instruments (fiddle, guitar, etc) on the wall above (see a picture of the bar). Dougie MacLean set this up with the idea the idea that visiting musicians could stop by and play at any time. I spent a very pleasant evening playing fiddle there a few years ago. Very civilized.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:36 PM

Thats a very nice and civilised idea Stewart.

Anyway I forgot a few others

Mrs Mills
Dave Brubeck
Billy Joel

and I am not going to mention Liberace :-)

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:46 PM

You were told not to mention Liberace!!!

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 06:45 PM

Have we had a pianist mentioned here that played folk music?

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 06:49 PM

Hey GUEST....I know who you are and i guess the Villan does, too! My accordion is quite heavy when dropped on your toe from a height!!!

HPBoy..."Guitars are sexy because they look like a well rounded woman" er....they don't appeal to me... and aren't they a bit wooden, anyway?!

Jojofolkagogo..."Many Many clubs I go to have at least six or seven guitars, boring boring boring, so bring on something different !!!" Hey...only six or seven? Which club is that?!!!! lol (Joking...keep your strings on, guitarist people!)

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 02:18 AM

Now, about those G-strings...

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 03:25 AM

Yes I am afraid the big T is a naughty naughty guest Rockhen LOL

Kate Rusby
Kathryn Roberts
June Tabor

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Rockhen
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 10:48 AM

I will give his missus instructions to give him a good slapping around the head with a fragile guitar.
Mind you, on second thoughts, he'd probably enjoy that, maybe continuous piped easy listening piano music wherever he goes...

Subject: RE: Bring back the piano in pubs...please
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 12:49 PM

Yes Villan, I agree those three use piano - but they had not been mentioned in this thread whereas various rock'n'roll etc piano players had.