Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 01:12 PM

MacColl sings the original words on his 1960 Folk-Lyric LP "A Garland of Scots Folksong," which is back in print through the good offices of Dick Greenhaus at CAMSCO Music.

This is an important album in that some of the songs are sung by MacColl's mother, Betsy Miller, whose status as a trad singer has never been impugned.

As suggested above, MacColl's performance was the direct or indirect inspiration behind all others since.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 02:26 PM

I don't know of a definitive explanation of the spelling "Mallie." Conceivably it's simply "Molly" with an "a" either to indicate that "Molly" is a diminutive of "Mary" (strange but true!) or else, probably more likely, simply that the pronunciation was closer to "ah" than to "aw."

I think it is an affectionate name for Malcolm.
Not to a girl at all.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 02:59 PM

From: Reinhard Date: 03 Oct 15 - 02:12 PM
Teribus, the song is originally about the War of the Spanish Succession (1702-1713), but its verses are also applicable to the slaughter of the First World War.

From: Teribus Date: 03 Oct 15 - 04:16 PM
Applicable in what way?

From: Teribus Date: 04 Oct 15 - 06:41 AM
The low countries Netherlands and Belgium can be accurately described and have been by those studying the history of conflict in Europe as the crucible of Europe certainly true for the last 600 years.

Teribus - I think you've answered your own question.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 05:05 PM

Keith, that could be possible, though you may be the first person to think of it.

But has Mallie ever been an *established* diminutive of Malcolm?

"Mallie" is well documented as a woman's name in Scotland. Both Burns and Cunningham used it..

If the *speaker* is a woman addressing her sweetheart Malcolm, the song becomes even more bitter, like some of Sassoon's Great War verses indicting women as encouragers of war.

Imagine a young woman urging her beau to go to Flanders to die while she sits on the sidelines snacking and drinking!

A bit much, I think.

If the speaker is a man, and so is "Mallie," then you have one friend suggesting they both go to fight and die (and snack and drink).

Conceivable, of course, but such songs are traditionally spoken by a man to a woman.

(Not that you should be stopped from imagining whatever makes the most sense to you.)

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 06:55 PM

Lighter - surely the song is addressed to a man who is thinking of joining the army. The singer is telling him that he risks death if he goes to fight in Flanders.

The singer might be a mate, a girl or perhaps an older, more experienced person, say, his mother or father.

The use of the name/term Mally remains unexplained. But it would make sense if you considered it to be an equivalent of 'marra'.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 07:42 PM

"If the *speaker* is a woman addressing her sweetheart Malcolm, the song becomes even more bitter, like some of Sassoon's Great War verses indicting women as encouragers of war."

Well there is quite a hint in the following:

Original verse:
"Will ye go to Flanders, my Mally-o,
Will ye go to Flanders, my Mally-o,
There WE'LL get wine and brandy,
Sack and sugar-candy,
Will ye go to Flanders, my Mally-o.

Modern additional verse:
"And will ye go tae Flanders my Mally-o
Tae see the bonnie sodjers there my Mally-o
They'll gie US pipes tae blaw
Coats o red an kilts sae braw
The finest o them a' my Mally-o

The song is about two young men, the singer has already decided to go and is trying to convince his friend "Mally" to join him.

Song even with modern additional verses has got nothing whatsoever to do with the First World War - anti-war song?? Nope all about the Army being a way by which the unemployed of those times could find food, clothing, pay and board and in which the young could find adventure and possible riches, very typical of the young to be lured by danger, they after all are invulnerable and if anything happens - it will only happen to somebody else.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 04 Oct 15 - 08:18 PM

Teribus - you can't use the modern verses to support an argument about its origin!

And if the first of the original verses gives a romantic view, then the second presents the reality. And it doesn't say 'we'.

Will ye go to Flanders, my Mally-O?
And see the chief commanders, my Mally-O?
You'll see the bullets fly,
And the soldiers how they die,
And the ladies loudly cry, my Mally-O

And if Mally was regarded as a term for 'mate' or 'marra', then the second verse would be a response to the first verse.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Oct 15 - 03:53 AM

Henryp - you can if the writer of the modern verses stayed with the theme of the original. In the original verse I quoted and in the modern verse I quoted the words WE and US are used. Either way still absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the First World War.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 15 - 06:38 AM

Thanks Lighter.
I did not know that mallie was a recognised female name.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 05 Oct 15 - 06:42 AM

No, Teribus, you really can't do that!

Besides, we haven't reached agreement on the theme of the original verses. And the two verses leave room for continuing discussion.

But you are right - in hard times, men have enlisted for food and clothing. In Clear the Way, John Doyle sings; We killed for three square meals a day.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 05 Oct 15 - 07:15 AM

We probably won't Henryp.

But if the song originally consisted of two verses and for what ever reason (Best known only to themselves) others insert "new" verses in between then for the song to make any sense they must "stay in period" and in context of the song. If on the otherhand they want to "progress" the narrative of the song and transpose it to another period the new verses would come after the originals.

Another way of looking at the song is that original verse one lists the advantages, the second details the drawbacks

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 15 - 09:57 AM

Many soldiers left good employment to serve too.
Marlborough achieved successes that themselves would entice adventurous men to join.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 03:57 PM

Sung tonight in the Square at Ypres, and very well sung too.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 06:48 PM

McGrath of Harlow reported above;

I was in the Ypres museum last year, and in that setting, June Tabor's version definitely made the hairs stand on end.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 17 - 10:05 AM

Couple of years late, I know, but Jimmy Carroll's bitter little aside (John's version is a long-winded and unnecessarily padded-out take on the one he learned from the singing of Ewan MacColl) is more a reflection of a 45-year-old feud than of any objective reality.

We'll all be dead soon, Jimmy.

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 04:31 AM

Example of "Mali" as a name for a male soldier,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5090337/Heroic-Army-dog-gets-Victoria-Cross.html

Subject: RE: Wiil Ye Go Tae Flanders - best version
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 08:40 AM

Thank for posting, Keith. Hero dogs rock!

Central Park in NYC features a bronze statue of the heroic Siberian husky Balto. He fascinated me as a youngster long (long, long) before Disney's 1995 movie.