Request respectful Veterans Day Thread

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: mg
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:08 PM

thanks..here is a song I wrote for the Korean veterans...horrible times they had...tune is the verse part of Dainty Davy

Those we left there in the cold
We remember we remember
Have no fears of growing old
Oh do we remember

Those who fell face down in mud (quote from Ollie North)
We remember we remember
Asian soil Yankee blood
Oh do we remember

Those who died in prison yards
We remember we remember
Savage weather savage guards
Oh do we remember

Heartbreak Ridge and Pork Chop Hill
We remember we remember
If we don't honor them who will
Oh do we remember

Those whose names we can't forget
We remember we remember
Comrade spirits with us yet
Oh do we remember

Those who died when far too young
We remember we remember
It is for them this song is sung
Oh do we remember

---

And we used to call it Armistice Day and I wish we still did. mg

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:29 PM

Some ramblings.

When I was a child, I confusedly called this date "Novembrance Day."

My father helped liberate Arnheim, in Holland. He survived, but lost four friends to that battle, and would never talk about it.

A few years ago, I (a middle-aged Canadian woman) held and consoled a tattooed, muscle-shirted American man who was probably a Hell's Angel, as he sobbed at the Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC. I provided Kleenex, a shoulder, and two ears. He told me later he'd never been able to talk about it before. I can't really talk about it now. My husband stood and watched, completely overwhelmed by this episode.

Who said "war is the ultimate failure"? Is there anyone in the world whose life has not been touched by war? Will we ever learn?

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:51 PM

From reading this series of writings today, I know why I can't ever listen to Kenny Roger's song "Twenty Years Ago" without getting tears in my eyes. Thank you all very much for sharing thoughts, ideas and feelings that have touched your lives so intimately. And thank you, Mary, for starting this thread.

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Mickey191
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 11:31 PM

Thank you Mary for this thread. Your song touched me deeply, thinking of all the fine young men & women and their families, whose lives have been changed forever. These heartfelt stories make me so angry that the lesson is never learned. The old men make the wars and the young men pay.

The War to end all wars, Peace in our time. It's man's inumanity to man, and there is no end in sight.

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 11:57 PM

Found this on another site and thought it had a place here.

The Soldier

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves under the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

By Charles M. Province

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 12:00 AM

Clinton,

Your "11:11" is a very moving set of lyrics.

Did you know that Garnet Rogers is going around claiming that he wrote it?

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Miken
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 12:59 AM

Remembering my mother's cousin Roger, who died in a strafing run while on the old carrier Saratoga, in WWII.
Remembering my Uncle Gordie.. who survived the Bataan death march, and two years of prison camp and carried the emotional and nutritional scars the rest of his life, but who became a highly respected expert on detention and confinement as a psychologist, when he came back. He didn't like to share those experiences much, but after a few of an evening would sometimes do so. Then he'd ask me to sing " The Good Reuben James".
I, too, was too old for Korea, but not for Viet Nam. Remembering My good friend Mike Thomas, Navy Seal and Chief Corpsman who survived two tours in Nam, but died three years ago to cancer. I took my usual lunchtime walk around the military portion of Evergreen Washelli cemetary near where I work, today. and there were lots of folks walking through the site and laying flowers. I thought of Mike's wife Mary who told me in an E-Mail yesterday that she couldn't be at home alone again this Christmas but would visit her sister in San Francisco this year. I asked her if she could come up north to Seattle since she would be on this coast ( lives in N.C), but she said she was afraid of all the old memories of when Mike was in Nam, and she was waiting here for hime to come back.
Thanks for the thread, Mary. I remember last year's unpleasant experience.
Mike

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 01:57 AM

My father served in WWII on a seaplane-tender: the USS Lapwing.

One uncle served in WWII on a destroyer going through both the Coral Sea and Midway battles.

Another uncle served during Vietnam in Military intelligence in Germany.

My great uncle served in the trenches in WWI and was gassed - he was never healthy for the rest of his life.

A great grandfather from Vermont fought in several Civil War battles including Gettysburg and Chancelorville.

My closest male friend flew F-4 missions over Vietnam.

They all came home alive.


Last Sunday, my church had 4 speakers during the service. One flew bombing missions over Germany in WWII. One was a lady who lived in Berlin throughout the war and emmigrated to the U.S. in 1950. One was a man who grew up in Saigon, Vietnam and escaped to the US with most of his family before the fall of Saigon. One was a Huey helicopter pilot who flew missions in the Mekong Delta.

Powerful stuff.

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 11:11 AM

Brucie - Charles M. Province writes stupid useless drivel-

It is we the people who have freedom of the press.
It is we the people who have freedom of speech.
It is we the people who have the freedom to demonstrate.
It is we the people who have the right to a fair trial.
It is we the people who have the right to burn the flag.

none of our freedoms were 'given' to us by any soldier

some of our freedoms were defended for us by some soldiers

that's all that can be said truthfully

the 'poem' by Province is meaningless melodrama, designed to inflame and incite the right to mobilize against 'too much' freedom for the rest of us who don't agree with you.

my sympathies, respect and thanks to the vets who have sacrificed.

my disgust and scorn for the politicians who misled them and put them in harms way.

my utmost disgust and scorn for the Rush Limbaughs, Bill Kristols, Bill O'Reillys and thier ilk who use the dead bodies and broken limbs of veterans to further thier own personal careers and agendas.

finally, my sympathies, respect and thanks also to the Americans who refused to serve. By doing so they exercise the freedoms we all cherish. there is no freedom if it is not acted on, if it is just enshrined somewhere and we say 'those are our FREEDOMS. but don't think about living as if they mean something. our leaders know best, just shup up and stay in line.'

I expect this response may be unfairly relegated to the BS bin, but that's where this whole thread belongs. I am not trying to politicise this thread, but Armistice Day/Veterans Day is not meant to be a feel good remembrance, but a 'never again if we can help it' remembrance.
work for peace, there is no glory in war.

Subject: Lyr Add: OVER THE HILLS AND FAR AWAY
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 11:58 AM

Here's forty shillings on the drum, for those who'll volunteer to come
To list and fight the foe today, over the hills and far away

O'er the hills and far away
through Flanders,Portugal and Spain
King George Commands and we obey
Over the hills and far away

When duty calls me I must go to stand and face another foe,
But part of me shall always stay Over the hills and far away.

If I should fall to rise no more As many comrades did before
Then bid the fifes and drums to play Over the hills and far away

The fall in lads behind the drum with colours blazing like the sun
along the road to come what may over the hills and far away

Though I may wander far from Spain a part of me shall still remain
For you are with me night and day Over the hills and far away

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 02:08 PM

Whatever, Bill.

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Murph10566
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 05:26 PM

A Salute to all our Brother and Sister Veterans and their Families...

Thanks to you, Mary, and to all the contributors here who have shared so much of their hearts and memories in this thread...

I've just returned from Washington, DC, where my wife Patricia and I attended the Ceremonies held there at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial; it was an important and meaningful visit for us, as always... This year was the observance of the 10th Anniversary of the dedication of the Women's Vietnam Veterans' Memorial near The Wall.   Recognition so long in coming, has at last been afforded the amazing women who gave (and STILL give) so much...

As I always do, I visited my Friends whose names are etched on so many of the panels there.   They're a part of me still...

The chorus from my song 'The Wall':

And every Name's a Father or a Husband or a Son,
Or a Daughter or a Brother or a Cousin to Someone -
Or a Name might be a Classmate or a Friend you may recall:
There's nearly sixty thousand fallen Names still waiting at The Wall.



God bless the Vet...

Murph

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 06:16 PM

The generations of my family skipped both Wars. AFAIK, only my maternal grandfather served. As I remember being told, he was at Arras in 1918, & he would also wake up screaming in the night for many years afterwards.

I am not of a mindset to have 'favourites' in any sphere, but WWI is a fascination for me, & (for what it is worth) I offer the following poem, which says more for/to me than even the Wilfrid Owen's & Siegfried Sassoon's:

In Memoriam
by Ewart Alan Mackintosh (killed in action 21 November 1917 aged 24)

(Private D Sutherland killed in action in the German trenches, 16 May 1916, and the others who died.)

So you were David's father,
And he was your only son,
And the new-cut peats are rotting
And the work is left undone,
Because of an old man weeping,
Just an old man in pain,
For David, his son David,
That will not come again.

Oh, the letters he wrote you,
And I can see them still,
Not a word of the fighting,
But just the sheep on the hill
And how you should get the crops in
Ere the year get stormier,
And the Bosches have got his body,
And I was his officer.

You were only David's father,
But I had fifty sons
When we went up in the evening
Under the arch of the guns,
And we came back at twilight -
O God! I heard them call
To me for help and pity
That could not help at all.

Oh, never will I forget you,
My men that trusted me,
More my sons than your fathers',
For they could only see
The little helpless babies
And the young men in their pride.
They could not see you dying,
And hold you while you died.

Happy and young and gallant,
They saw their first-born go,
But not the strong limbs broken
And the beautiful men brought low,
The piteous writhing bodies,
They screamed 'Don't leave me, sir',
For they were only your fathers
But I was your officer.

Inspiration
On the evening of 16 May, 1916 Lieutenant Ewart Alan Mackintosh and Second Lieutenant Mackay of the 5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders led a raid on the German trenches in the sector of the front line north-west of Arras. By the end of the night there were sixteen British casualties, which included fourteen wounded and two killed. One of the two dead soldiers was Private David Sutherland.

Rædwulf

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: GUEST,Big Mick
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 07:08 PM

Just reading through this thread made mne think of another old thread. Thanks for this, Sister Mary.

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=9359#60580

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: kendall
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 07:14 PM

Mike, I'm confused, how could you be too old for Korea, but not for Viet Nam?

Kendall, Seaman 1st class.

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Fred (Beetle) Bailey
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:05 AM

Song of an aging Chinook crew-chief:

You saw him walkin' down the street and you quickly looked away,
Cause you don't know where you stand with him and you don't know what to say.
Remembering no welcome, so you care that no one cared,
But you don't look in his eyes because you're scared of seeing scared.

And some remember sacrifice and glory in the war,
Some remember parties, with their buddies and the whores.
Some march in parades to say that "they did not die in vain",
Others turn their backs to try to hide their grief and shame.

And some you'll see 'a-walkin' point in the alleys way downtown
Pushin' grocery carts with dirty flags 'a-hangin' down.
Trundle-ing their fortunes up and down the city streets
Survivors of the war, forever wounded by the peace.

And sometimes I've awakened when the nights were hot and damp
With a couple 'a squads of infantry 'a-sloggin' down the ramp
To a long forgotten fire-fight in a screamin' stinkin' dawn
Where some teen-aged soldier fell and puked his life up and was gone

So many flags were folded for the mothers and the wives
50 nylon stars -- 50 thousand lives
But a Democratic order tells the young ones what to do
To the Viet Cong guerilla, like the Powder River Sioux

So the next time that you see him on the streets out in the rain
You don't owe him no money, and he ain't expectin' fame
Don't lay your standards on him, man, just leave him free to roam
But maybe you could shake his hand and tell him "Welcome Home"

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 10:03 AM

Welcome home, Beetle, and thank you, very much, for sharing. It is really well done.

Mitakuye Oyasin,

katlaughing/kat

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: mg
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 12:37 PM

Great song Beetle, especially the line about the ramp.

I have a song that I probably have never sung...although maybe I posted it...it is for the crew that loaded up the helicopter for the last trip home...

Tune is Nevada Jane by Utah Phillips but he says it is really Gentle Annie although I don't hear the similarity..

It is for the 101st and anyone in the Ashau Valley...

I have walked in the places where the angels fear to tread
Carried out the wounded carried out the dead
And a little voice inside me says why not you instead
In the valley of the shadow of death

I have ______ in places with no name
Sent men back to freedom who will never be the same
And each of us and all of us and no one is to blame
In the valley of the shadow of death

There is not a single woman who will wait for me a year
In the land of hope and promise in the land of ice cold beer
Not a one to know my secrets not a one to know my fear
In the valley of the shadow of death

Wrap him in his poncho strap him with his lace
They got him in the bootie they got him in the face
What the hell it don't mean nothing someone else will take his place
In the valley of the shadow of death

mg

Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
From: Fred (Beetle) Bailey
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 09:00 PM

Thanks to katlaughing and Mary Garvey --
I was in the Ashau more than once --
and then picked the last 'hook load of 101st off that damn hill above Khontum --
my hook was Ol' Stewball --
The song gets one or two airplays this time of year --

peace

---

Thread closed temporarily because it's been a target for a heavy barrage of Spam. If you have something to add to the discussion, contact me and I'll reopen it.
-Joe Offer-