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Singarounds/sessions -best format

Acorn4 29 Dec 08 - 05:47 AM
Rasener 29 Dec 08 - 05:51 AM
Acorn4 29 Dec 08 - 05:51 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 29 Dec 08 - 06:17 AM
Richard Bridge 29 Dec 08 - 06:27 AM
Rasener 29 Dec 08 - 06:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 29 Dec 08 - 06:59 AM
Acorn4 29 Dec 08 - 07:11 AM
Jack Campin 29 Dec 08 - 07:25 AM
Mr Happy 29 Dec 08 - 07:38 AM
VirginiaTam 29 Dec 08 - 07:52 AM
Sooz 29 Dec 08 - 08:19 AM
BusyBee Paul 29 Dec 08 - 08:26 AM
artbrooks 29 Dec 08 - 08:30 AM
breezy 29 Dec 08 - 08:32 AM
Marje 29 Dec 08 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,Jim P 29 Dec 08 - 09:35 AM
Steve Gardham 29 Dec 08 - 10:00 AM
Leadfingers 29 Dec 08 - 10:31 AM
Hamish 29 Dec 08 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,Auldtimer 29 Dec 08 - 11:35 AM
Sooz 29 Dec 08 - 11:36 AM
Richard Bridge 29 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 29 Dec 08 - 01:06 PM
Rasener 29 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,passin'by 29 Dec 08 - 01:37 PM
Zen 29 Dec 08 - 02:07 PM
Suegorgeous 29 Dec 08 - 02:13 PM
greg stephens 29 Dec 08 - 02:23 PM
Jack Campin 29 Dec 08 - 02:59 PM
Phil Edwards 29 Dec 08 - 03:07 PM
Sooz 29 Dec 08 - 03:16 PM
Girl Friday 29 Dec 08 - 05:50 PM
Phil Edwards 29 Dec 08 - 06:18 PM
Suegorgeous 29 Dec 08 - 08:10 PM
Snuffy 30 Dec 08 - 04:20 AM
Rasener 30 Dec 08 - 04:22 AM
Acorn4 30 Dec 08 - 04:25 AM
Rasener 30 Dec 08 - 04:25 AM
Brakn 30 Dec 08 - 04:31 AM
Marje 30 Dec 08 - 04:36 AM
freda underhill 30 Dec 08 - 05:20 AM
TheSnail 30 Dec 08 - 05:25 AM
Spleen Cringe 30 Dec 08 - 06:27 AM
Phil Edwards 30 Dec 08 - 07:01 AM
Spleen Cringe 30 Dec 08 - 07:47 AM
Will Fly 30 Dec 08 - 07:55 AM
Barry Finn 30 Dec 08 - 08:56 AM
Suegorgeous 30 Dec 08 - 09:06 AM
Barry Finn 30 Dec 08 - 09:37 AM
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Subject: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 05:47 AM

I hope this won't turn into a "handbags at fifty paces" thread, but just a useful discussion. There are many ways to run a singaround/session, and I've suggested four formats that I've run across. It would seem each has its own "fors" and "againsts":-

Method 1: the free for all.

People just jump in when they feel like it -doesn't really need an organiser, keeps flowing and spontaneity, but reticent singers/players can feel intimidated, and favours the more "pushy" performers.

Method 2: Round the room irrespective:-

The organiser moves round the circle of chairs, irrespective of who is sitting in them. Can mean people who came in early get a bit frustrated if at the wrong end of the circle, but it is completely objective, easy to organise and won't lead to accusations of favourtism. When the circle has been completed, it starts again, the chais getting the song/tune rather than the singer/player. Easy to organise if organiser is pissed.

Method 3: Round the room, then late arrivals:-

As above, but when the orgainser has finished going round the room, he/she then goes round the circle again, but this time just taking in late arrivals. Means everyone gets a song, but encourages people to just do a song then vanish, and can frustrate early arrivals, or those staying for whole session.


Method 4: In order of arrval:-

This involves the organiser keeping some kind of list, which notes the order in which people arrive, and allocates slots in that order. It can still be a bit annoying for early arrivals who do their song in front of five people , and then the hoards arrive, but it does introduce an element of encouraging early birds. Needs a good organiser who either notes it down or can keep it in their head - runs into problems when they get canned and forget the order.

I'm going to put forward a "Method 5", which I don't think I've ever come across, but which might work. It's like Method 4, but with a slight difference. When a singer/player had finished their slot, they then go onto the end of the 'list' again, should they wish to stay and do another song, and anyone who comes in after them has to wait until their second turn before doing their song/tune. This would avoid the situation where someone gets in at the start, sings in front of three people, then has to wait for the whole session, and might get a second turn if they are lucky, whereas someone can come in half way through, sing r to a crowded room, then bugger off. Once again, it needs a good organiser.

This is not actually about "etiquette" or "manners" like other current thread, but about ways of organising that are fair to everybody.

I'm asking as I'm thinking of possibly getting something going at our local, so am canvassing opinions.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 05:51 AM

>>Method 2: Round the room irrespective:-

The organiser moves round the circle of chairs, irrespective of who is sitting in them. Can mean people who came in early get a bit frustrated if at the wrong end of the circle, but it is completely objective, easy to organise and won't lead to accusations of favourtism. When the circle has been completed, it starts again, the chais getting the song/tune rather than the singer/player. Easy to organise if organiser is pissed.
<<

That would be my preference.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 05:51 AM

... oh, and the thing about method five is that if you sing/play in front of 25 people, you would then, theoretically, end up listening to 25 people's songs/tunes - would this not seem fair?


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 06:17 AM

Anything but 'Method 1: The free for all' would be my preference. I know of a singaround which uses this method. It is probably the best session in the district, with some very fine singers attending, but it is very intimidating for participants. The 2 people trying to start a song at the same time situation can happen 2 or 3 times a night.

I also think that many singarounds, these days, are 'over-populated' and it is this phenomenon which leads to the organisational questions raised above. I sometimes find myself yearning for the days when there were only between 6 and 12 people at a singaround and there was time for 2 or 3 songs per participant (at least) and chat between songs. Nowadays all I have to look forward to is claustrophobia and sensory overload!


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 06:27 AM

There is of course the famous John Barden "sing - a - zed" which involves John selecting people at random, but as we all know random number theory is fair eventually. This is even easier when the host is pissed (you said it first John).

I favour "loose chairs" in which the principle is rotation, chair by chair, with the occasional intervention when the host wants one or a really good idea occurs to someone, and I am also occasionally guilty of "wandering mandolins" or "wandering harmonies" in which I and/or others follow the singing around the better to join in!


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 06:35 AM

Another one introduced to me by Sooz, goes as follows

Each person wanting to partake is given a number

Then identical set of numbers go in a hat.

It starts by the MC drawing the first number from the hat and then drawing a second number.

The person with the first number does the first song/tune etc.
The second person makes sure they are ready to do the next one.

Each time they finish a song another number is drwan, so that the person can be ready for their turn.

When all the numbers have been drawn, you start all over again.

The people participating keep their number all night.

It really works, but is easier than I explained LOL :-)


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 06:59 AM

Not mentioned yet, but when moving around the circle, are only performers included?
Some 'Filk' sessions include the option to pass, pick, or play. This means that if you choose not to perform you can ask to hear a particular performer, or ask if anyone knows (and will perform) a particular song.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 07:11 AM

There's also a thing which some organisers do which invloved trying to alternate songs and tunes, but these just involve a slight departure from the order, the underlying scheme remaining the same.
Ther is also the "two turns for duos" question which can add a further complication.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 07:25 AM

I prefer mixed tune and song sessions, and free-for-all works best for that.

Round-the-room is unbearably stuffy and formal unless the group is very small or the average standard (and corresponding size of ego) VERY, VERY high.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Mr Happy
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 07:38 AM

I prefer method 1. - but with the codicil of egging on the shy or reticent


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 07:52 AM

I'm just happy to be there, whatever the format, even if I don't get many or even any turns.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Sooz
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 08:19 AM

Anything but method 1!


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 08:26 AM

Sooz, you forgot to mention our "raffle" system!.

After our Method 2 (with occasional zigging and zagging to accommodate late arrivals etc), if we've been round a full circle and have say only 20 minutes left so not everyone will have another turn, we utilise the half-time raffle tickets and the winner gets to do the pick or perform option mentioned above.

Works well.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 08:30 AM

The group we go to uses method 2, with the "pass, pick or play" option. It works well, probably because there are rarely more than 12-15 people in attendance, and everyone gets at least two turns over the evening, even if they come in late. An advantage of this over others is that it is self-policing, so the organizer gets to participate evenly.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: breezy
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 08:32 AM

its the regular, very late arrival who comes and plays , plugs something and buggers of without having had the decency to listen to everyone else first

If you arrive after a certain time, hrd luck, get there earlier next time

How does sooz deal with late arrivals, detention? lines, letters home?

I believe they should hear everyone else before they take a turn

Could encourage punctuality

I only expect to be invited after I've heard everyone else, then I know how the land lies, apart from that I think it only courteous of me, and that's a rarity in itself

happy new year


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Marje
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 08:36 AM

I think the best format may depend on what the session is for. I'm referring here to what happens in the UK - the US has different terminology and habits.

If it's mainly or entirely a tune session, probably in a public bar with a fair bit of background noise, a free-for-all is sometimes the only feasible option. It may be possible for someone to steer things a bit by inviting players or singers (particularly newcomers) to fill any gaps, but generally these sessions are run by all the participants. It tends to mean that only the louder and more confident singers get to do a song, but this may be all for the best in a crowded room. In such sessions, there's an understanding that everyone can join in if they want to, and less emphasis on solo performance, so it's not really a matter of taking turns.

If, at the other extreme, it's a singaround, mainly unaccompanied and in a separate room, some sort of turn-taking is normal and desirable. If singers don't have any notice of when their turn is coming up, it can induce a certain amount of fluster, so it's best to have a system that gives them a few minutes' notice. The round-the-room system has that advantage. Another option - even more formal but can work well - is to have a blackboard or similar list with names added as people arrive, so they perform in that order and know when their turn is due. This encourages early arrival, and discourages the showoffs who only come to perform and not to listen.

Anything that attempts to combine these two formats may work, but there will be some singers who get fed up listening to tunes and waiting for a chance to sing, and some instrumentalists who don't like songs that they can't play along with, so you may not manage to please everyone.

Oh, and you may need to have a policy on poets and storytellers. I make no recommendations here, I'm just pointing out that they may turn up.

I think anyone setting up a singaround or tunes session needs to be clear in their mind what it's for, and to make this clear to those interested in attending. Then people won't be easily misled or disappointed.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: GUEST,Jim P
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 09:35 AM

My preferred method is none of the above: we call it "Poker Chip Bardic". When everyone arrives, they get three poker chips; white, blue and red. The organizer either starts off herself, or picks someone for a "round." That person throws in their white poker chip into the middle of the room. From there on out, a white poker chip must be thrown into the center of the room to start a song; the thrower may perform himself, may pick someone else to sing, or may request a song that he wishes to hear, or may even just pass (the filk "pick, pass or play").

When all of the white chips are gone, start a new round with blue chips, then red. If someone comes in late, they get a set of chips starting with the current round's color. If you go through all three colors, redistribute chips and start over.

This keeps the spontaneity of "Method 1" alive, while ensuring that no one "hogs the mic" and everyone gets a chance to sing, even the shy ones. It does bear the slight inconvenience of making sure you have enough poker chips before you start, but this hasn't ever been an issue with us.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 10:00 AM

Jesus! You folk like things organised! Probably why I much prefer a tune session with the odd song thrown in nowadays.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 10:31 AM

Any Free For All session can risk a pushy character hogging the whole show , so some kind of Organisation IS useful .


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Hamish
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 10:39 AM

I like the allegedly random - which allows a decent MC to avoid getting the two poets/toe-curlers one after the other (or even "wasting" the two really good turns one after the other). It also allows discretion over who gets the extra goes if there are any in the offing and allows them to give preference to the early arrivals ("You only sang to five folks, why don't you have another turn now") and that can be before a late arrival has had a first go.

But it's easier and/or a cop-out to just go round the room.

All imo...

~8^)


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 11:35 AM

Depends on the number of singers/players, a group of 8 has a different dinamic from a croud of 20. I much prefer singing sessions, 12 - 15 performers is about right especialy if there are some ballad singers. The perverse notion that every guitar string must be tightened/loosened/changed or tested before playing is a session killer, likewise the unasked for playing allong with a singer. Not to mention or to tollerated the dreaded BOOK of song words. If the singer can't be bothered to learn the words why? should anyone be bothered to listen to them.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Sooz
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 11:36 AM

Now then Breezy, I'm not a teacher now!

Latecomers stit where they can fit in and take their turn when it next comes around to that place in the room. It might be soon or it could be later. I might put a zig or zag in to give them a go out of turn , but then again, I might not!


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM

"Jump in" can be a bugger at a mixed session. Naming no particular banjo player, I remember without affention a mixed session being run on "jump-in" when all of John Barden, Wee Jock, and I (none of us backward at coming forward, nor quiet) got separately played over at three different times when trying to start a song. The same banjo-player playing over 9 times is just bloody rude.

If the "chair" spots a latecomer sliding in to the nearest seat to the present song, a quick "skip" may be called for.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 01:06 PM

Our Tony makes sure everyone get to do their song or tune but as far as is possible, knowing the performers, tries to inject variety in the programme by ensuring different items follow one another. I know it can present problems but he very rarely fails.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM

>>stit<<

Does that mean sit or tit Sooz :-)


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: GUEST,passin'by
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 01:37 PM

"Not to mention or to tollerated (sic) the dreaded BOOK of song words. If the singer can't be bothered to learn the words why? should anyone be bothered to listen to them. " (Auldtimer)

Yes


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Zen
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 02:07 PM

Type 1... with light guidance if necessary and encouragement for newcomers/learners.

Zen


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 02:13 PM

Just to pick up on the thing Acorn mentioned above re two turns for duos... what do people think is fair for duos?

I ask because I go regularly to open mics (which have similar playing-turn etiquette issues) with a friend or two. Often it's the case that the organiser allocates every singer/player 2 songs per turn. Sometimes I want to sing with one or both friends as a duo/trio for one song, as well as each of us doing our own solo thing (trad in my case, own songs for the other two).

But the organiser often seems to feel that this joint turn should mean that each of us should give up one of our 2 songs to the joint turn - which seems to me very unfair. I'm generally happy to give up one of my solo songs (in exchange I get the rare pleasure of being accompanied) so the other two can have their 2 solo songs, but even this sometimes seems frowned upon.

What do others do in this situation, or think is fair?


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 02:23 PM

I favour the complete free-for-all, with a little discreet light-touch organising from an eminence grise or two, to bring out the best, or the shyest.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 02:59 PM

In many of the singarounds I've been to, the singer using a book was consistently the most interesting. A lot of club singers have VERY small repertoires, and if you're listening to them as a regular, the same 5 songs get a bit old after a year or so.

I'm thinking in particular of one very strong singer who specialized in Victorian music hall ballads, a different one every week. He could really give them welly, and they weren't designed for memorization in the first place. I presume he practiced, but a good singer can virtually sight-read songs in an idiom they know well.

There was a reason why cheap songbooks and broadsides sold like they did. Don't expect me to believe that the people who bought them regarded it as a moral duty never to sing anything from one until they'd memorized it word-perfect.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 03:07 PM

I'm not too keen on the free-for-all; I'm not big on singing over other people, and as an unaccompanied singer I can't start strumming by way of an advance warning. (The 'poker chip' idea would get round this, although I'd imagine it would need to be a fairly small group.) Plus a free-for-all session can be blighted by a single performer whose self-confidence greatly exceeds their ability.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Sooz
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 03:16 PM

I'm half of a duo and we usually decline to do a second song if we are offered one in a singaround. We wait until our turn comes round again.
The matter of occasional duos and trios can be a difficult one but generally there shouldn't be a problem with you joining in with your mate's song and vice versa.
Some good singers have to have their words in front of them but the opposite is much less common. I don't mind singers having the words in a singaround (although I'd prefer them not to) but it drives me mad when they have to shuffle through the book to decide which song to sing when it is their go.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Girl Friday
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 05:50 PM

Our singarounds in Orpington work much like method 5. We choose the first performer and which direction we go in. Usually, they wait to be invited, but when there are just a handful they know when to play. We have one persistantly late individual who has to wait until everyone has done two songs, unless he arrives before the last member does their first song. Singarounds at our other club (Fox And Hounds Kent) works much the same, though noone arrives late.
It can get confusing if people move seats, but I deal with that one by changing the order completely. I'm half a duo too, and we are quite content with one song between us, but are happy to do two, if asked. We have been at singarounds where there has been a band of 6 or more people who have taken one song each. That, I think is totally out of order.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 06:18 PM

We have been at singarounds where there has been a band of 6 or more people who have taken one song each.

What, with the rest joining in each time? That'd be forgivable if their names were John, Paul, George and... well, John, Paul and George (or David, Stephen and Graham) but for ordinary mortals that's so far out of order it's practically coming back.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 08:10 PM

Sorry, I'm obviously missing something here... if a different person leads on each song, what is wrong with 6 taking one song each? how is that not fair?

Happy to be corrected, but I just don't see it... :)


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:20 AM

If each leads on one song that is fair, but if one sings and one accompanies both simes that is one "act" getting two turns.

Should the Treorchy Male Voice Choir get 83 goes, or 20 (1 for each soloist) or one for the whole choir?


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:22 AM

I suppose it depends on whether they are classed as individuals or a group.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Acorn4
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:25 AM

That's a tricky one isn't it. If a six piece band decide they want to be treated as individuals, then I suppose an organiser has to do that, even if the others join in with the songs. The problem comes when they aren't particularly exciting and the assembled throng start to switch off.

They are actually doing six ensemble performances - one way is to let them do two, then let a couple of other performers have a turn then come back to them.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:25 AM

1 for the whole choir.

Anyway you probably wouldn't be able to get 83 in a back room folk club.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Brakn
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:31 AM

I did recently see a group of three people get up do three songs (chart hits - not that it matters) with crib sheets. How good was that?


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Marje
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:36 AM

It's not just about fairness to the singers, it's about fairness to the rest of the company. A duo/trio/quartet doing 2/3/4 times the usual quota of songs (together) will get to sound a bit samey, while the aim of most singarounds is to have variety.
I have to say, though, that groups like this are likely to be better rehearsed and presented than some club singers, and this may be the reason that MCs sometimes give them what seems like more time than their due. It also depends on how many other singers are there - on a thinly-attended night, the arrival of a half-decent duo or group will be very welcome.
I think most groups appreciate that arriving mob-handed does upset the balance of the session, and are happy to be given whatever time can be allocated to them without upsetting the rest.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 05:20 AM

I've found different venues and groups of people take on their own style, basically bonding as a group according to the pace of the venue.
I have sessions at my place regularly. It's round the room and everyone gets heard, unless they just want to join in in the background. It's important to have someone keeping an eye on who's next, because there's occasionally someone who tries to sing more than others.

when there are outstanding singers there, I try to make sure they don't do too many requests but get to do their own choices as well. otherwise the session can change from a musical sharing to an on-demand performance.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 05:25 AM

Snuffy

Should the Treorchy Male Voice Choir get 83 goes

How are you going to stop them?


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 06:27 AM

How are you going to stop them?

The licensing laws might have a role to play here...


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 07:01 AM

if a different person leads on each song, what is wrong with 6 taking one song each?

It's fair to them as individuals, but for the rest of the room it's effectively a lengthy set by a group with six different lead singers. I reckon they should have dealt with the turn-taking thing by splitting up and dotting themselves around the room - if they're that good at singing together it shouldn't give them any trouble.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 07:47 AM

As it's just a bunch of people sat in a room singing and/or playing I don't suppose the fine details of the format really matters as long as everyone's happy and no-one's getting hurt.

Personally I would add thumbscrews, a rack and a scold's bridle to the proceedings to liven things up a bit. Nothing like the threat of medieval-style torture to keep people on their toes.

Must check the viability of this approach with Les in Chorlton for next month's singaround at the Beech on 7th January...


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 07:55 AM

At the session I organise - not a singaround, incidentally - people are free to start something off as they feel like it, but I make sure that I always start the evening off and that nobody who wants to start a tune gets missed out. A sort of benevolent uncle is how I see myself (I also keep an open tab at the bar for the performers!). The point is that, unless a tune or song is obviously a solo piece and best performed as such, everyone can join in everything. It's a great way of learning tunes.

What is amazing is how a boisterous public bar will suddenly go absolutely quiet when a shy, female voice pipes up unaccompanied. Common sense and kindness always seems to prevail.


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 08:56 AM

I prefere the free for all. The bugger that's a hog usually gets the shit thrown at themm if they persist & they either back off or get the cold shoulder skip, the natural consiquience is that they get shunned in time (we have 1 or 2 at my local & they usually get called on when they overdo it. 1 who's a singer/songwriter, not a bad writer either but not a pleasant voice to hear to often but he's been limited because he'll sing the same 5 or 6 night after night if given a free hand, so his hand gets slapped quite often, have to say he takes it in good stride). If run be the group the group or the MC should support & call on any that are shy or have trouble getting in when they haven't been heard from. It's interesting to see how it's handled outside of one's known area, most here seem to be posting from the UK. In the US it seems to be done by most of the methods post above with the exception of the 'poker chip' way, which I'd love to see in action.
As far as tune sessions, here from where I've been it's almost always run by either one or a small core of strong musicians & they usually lead but anyone with the ability is more than welcomed to take the lead role over & pass it around or called on to lead if they haven't & they're good. Singing is generally not encouraged but it does happen.

Barry


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 09:06 AM

Snuffy - umm, yes, I do see your point! not sure I'd want to listen to 83 (or even 6) solos from same group...

And I do see that other factors must come into it - like how many people in the room, etc.

But the thing is, that I and the particular friend that I go with sing totally different material, and we aren't a duo for most of the time - just at the odd open mic. If we are allowed just one song between us, it doesn't really work - because if it's my song, he's supporting me by accompanying me on a song he'd never otherwise sing, as trad folk isn't his thing, but then he wouldn't get his separate turn to do his own thing (he's a singer-songwriter). As I don't feel it's fair to ask him to sacrifice doing what he loves doing just to accompany me, this therefore means in theory my only option is to always sing alone, in order for us to get separate turns. Which is annoying because it's fun to sometimes be accompanied!

Do you see what I mean?

(This isn't so much of a problem if everyone's getting 2 or 3 songs each; then things tend to be more flexible.)


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Subject: RE: Singarounds/sessions -best format
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 09:37 AM

Suegorgeous, I'd say that you're being treated unfairly from the way you lay it out. My wife & I don't normally sing together but I do back her up on some of the songs she does but neither of us ever gets treated as a duo. Because she doesn't sing near as much as I do I'd defere to her if that were the case but it's never happened.
6 poeple in the same group & all of them sing lead I'd have to say they should be handled not as individuals & not as a group but hit each one at different times & spread them out a bit rather than one following right after the other & they should be heard accomanying each other otherwise what's the sense if the whole is better than the seperate parts.

Barry


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