BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)

Subject: BS: Noam Chomsky dead
From: Old Guy
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:35 AM

According to Bobert's idol, President Hugo Chavez, Noam Chomsky is dead.

It is reported in the New York Times that after waving a book by Noam Chomsky around during a speech at the United Nations on Wednesday, he said one of his greatest regrets was not meeting Mr Chomsky before he died. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:43 AM

It's those bloody sting rays again............

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead
From: number 6
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:48 AM

Chavez is just another moron on the global political scene.

Chomsky will be thankful, as his books sales have increased somewhat since the free public relations he received from Chavez the other day in the UN.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:04 AM

Maybe Chavez meant before he himself died, projecting that he would not meet Chomsky anytime in the foreseeable future...



A

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:29 PM

"Moron" being a term meaning "anyone who doesn't agree with me"?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:41 PM

Moron" being a term meaning "anyone who doesn't agree with me"?

no. Just my opinion of this chump.

But I must admit anyone who holds this guy in high esteem as one of the world great leaders, well I certainly question their integrety.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:55 PM

So now it's "If anyone claims to disagree with me they are lying"...

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

Chavez. He may not walk on water, but his domestic policies look pretty good (he seems to be sincerely interested in social reforms in Venezuela and is implementing them), and he isn't taking any crap off the United States.

This, of course, is reason enough for a lot of people to bad-mouth him. So what specifically is wrong with Chavez?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 02:46 PM

"So now it's "If anyone claims to disagree with me they are lying"... "
... Oh my God or should I say my devil (hmmm what's that I smell ..sulphur?) .. sorry, not getting lured in to this argument.

Ok .. from what I'm hearing there is some discontent in his own country regarding the population of the poor (not too pupular as ya think) .. also, I ask would you want this guy as the leader of your country ... as bad as Bush is or Blair is or in my case Harper, I think I would not replace them with Chavez !!

He has no more stigma than a over zealous evangelist. All rhetoric, no action, but ya gotta admit he puts on a good side show, yeah, he's a damned good song and dance man ... but I'd hate to think what he would do if he had the military aresenal of the US.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 03:21 PM

I hate to think what anyone would do who was in that position...if you follow my meaning...

Where there's a will to pursue a world-dominating empire, and there's also a way, which there certainly is in the case of corporate America, there's very big trouble for just about everybody...and that's what we are seeing all over the place. Very big trouble. Chavez is one of the small fish in the pond who resists being quietly eaten for dinner by the USA. He shows open defiance to the expanding New World Order. As such, he is labelled as "a bad guy" in American media. If he followed imperial orders from Washington faithfully, he would be labelled as "a friend of liberty and democracy", and would be perfectly free to secretly kill any number of his own citizens with barely any notice whatsoever by American media. That's how the imperial system works.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 03:36 PM

"I certainly question their integrity."

That's an accusation of dishonesty, rather than an expression of disagreement.

As for Chavez - well, having elections means that sometimes the guys you don't like get elected, and even re-elected. And sometimes even the coups organised to get rid of them don't succeed. Tough.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 03:44 PM

A United States representative tells the president of Pakistan that if his government doesn't cooperate, his country will be bombed back into the stone age.
The current U. S. leadership will do their best to bully Chavez, but finally the ordinary people of Latin American nations are beginning to organize and elect leaders that will work for their interests and not those of the wealthy land owners and business profiteers.

Bush continues to make enemies around the world and fight unproductive wars, when the country is falling behind in business development and education. I have no doubt that China will be the leader in the second half of this century.

Stock tip- follow the listings at Hang Seng.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:53 PM

Help keep Venezuelan civil society free!
Berlin/Caracas, 12 September 2006

Join Transparency International and its national chapter, Transparencia Venezuela in the global defence of autonomy for Venezuelan civil society.

Add your voice to the call for freedom: write to the country's National Assembly today

Why is TI concerned?

The draft Law on International Cooperation, currently under discussion in Venezuela's National Assembly, raises increasing concerns about the freedom of civil society and its ability to function independent of stifling government control.

The proposed law, a first draft of which has been approved by the National Assembly, would:

    * increase existing regulation of non-governmental local and international organisations
    * subject civil society to considerable restrictions, with government allowed to interfere in their objectives, activities and funding sources
    * establish a Fund for International Cooperation and Assistance. It is unclear in the draft whether funds received by civil society would end up being managed by the government through this fund

The text of the proposed bill is ambiguous, leaving ample room for further restrictions at the government's discretion. The bill also requires all organisations to register with the government, and its scope would be defined directly by the presidency under a regulation outside of legislative procedure.

Fighting corruption and demanding transparency and accountability in all sectors of society requires autonomy. With the passing of this law, Transparencia Venezuela would be severely limited in its anti-corruption programmes. To Restricting civil society means harming a country's most vulnerable citizens.

What to do?

TI has spoken out in the press and publicly joined other organisations in the call to reject this draft bill. Now you too can make your voice heard by sending a letter to the President of Venezuela's National Assembly. Together we can make a difference and allow civil society to continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 07:05 PM

How that all that measure up against your "Patriot Act"?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 07:36 PM

And who, you may ask, is Transparency International? A question well worth asking.

Clicky

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 08:57 PM

My "hero", Oldster???

Must be nice in yer drug-induced world... Yeah, you just say whatever you want as if it had some factual basis???

Nah, Hugster ain't my hero though I'm perfectly willin' to admit that, like him, I also see yer hero, Bush, as the devil...

Bobert

As fir Noam??? He's more the "my hero" type...

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 09:46 PM

Sure, anybody dumb enough to say somebody is dead when they are not is is OK in Bobert's book.

Ya see, he is always interested in facts like these:

Venezuela's poverty rate


At the beginning of this year, the National Statistics Institute (INE) reported that poverty in the country had risen by 9.2 percentage points during the six years of the Chávez administration, despite the huge amounts invested in social programs. The INE reported that the poverty index at the close of 2004 was 53% compared to 42.8% in the first semester of 1999, when Chávez took office.

Now, prodded by a dressing down from Il Presidente Chavez as a result of the announcement of these figures and after being ordered by him to change the method of measurement, it has been announced that, at the close of the first semester of 2005, poverty was 39.5%, i.e. 4.3 points lower than in 1999 and 14.5 points less than at the close of 2004; an extraordinary feat. Unfortunately this achievement is not due to an improvement in Venezuelans' quality of life but reflects a "mere" change in methodology.

Besides income, measurements of poverty traditionally include parameters that reflect the quality of life, such as type of housing and access to basic services, health, and education.

The figures now being presented by the INE measure poverty based solely on the income level of households. According to statements to the press by the INE's president, Elías Eljuri, these figures reflect the growth of the economy and employment and improvements in wage levels.

It is hardly surprising that these figures show a "reduction" in the poverty and extreme poverty indicators, since, at the start of the year, Datos Information Resources reported that the average income for Class E of the population had increased by an extraordinary 53% in 2004. This is explained by the increase in the public sector payroll and an increase in the number of people benefiting from the government's intense "missions" program.

Independent analysts have expressed their disagreement with the new figures published by the INE, on the grounds that they are based on just one indicator and not on the true quality of life of Venezuelans, apart from the fact that the INE has not provided specific details about the new methodology employed. This lack of information has established a serious precedent and is a harsh blow to the future credibility of the INE. However, for the purposes of announcing the blessings of the revolutionary process being promoted by President Chávez to the world, the INE has accomplished its task. The figures will be touted as an achievement of the process and hoisted as a banner of its success in reducing poverty. Meanwhile Venezuelans who live in abject poverty and the hoards of street children throughout the country suffer in silence.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 09:49 PM

Bite me, Ol'Guy... I never said that either...

Didn't yer mom ever give you the talk 'bout telling the truth???

Guess not...

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 09:49 PM

But I must admit anyone who holds this guy in high esteem as one of the world great leaders, well I certainly question their integrety.

You're talking about George W. Bush, right? Couldn't agree with you more.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 09:51 PM

One could only hope. Well not really. I loathe and despise just about everything political Chomsky stands for, but I really don't wish him dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 09:51 PM

Oh, and by the way- perhaps George Dumbya will favor us by delivering his next speech to the U.N. entirely in Spanish.

Let's see how well HE does....

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:07 PM

LOL. He struggles enough with English. This remains my favourite.

Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it will help on the red."

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST,Bradwin, Bradwin and Simon
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:23 PM

Thankyou Guest. We have passed this on to the Finance Department of our client the Templetone Group for their final approval.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:27 PM

Bobert:

If you can agree with Chavez about GWB being El Diablo then surely you can agree with him that Chmosky is dead. Right?

Or you just latch on to anything or anybody that makes your hated, arch enemy George Bush look bad?

That's your objective. That makes your day.

You would even pay higher health insurance premiums if you have to to make him look bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:57 PM

I don't hate Bush. I pity the poor bugger. He's in way over his head and history is not going to be kind to him. Not kind at all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:45 AM

Why do I get the feeling that some people here do not intend to discuss ever what another leader of a country except Bush may do wrong. Disliking Chavez, by the way, does not necessarily imply liking Bush any better. That's the (non)thinking of the left Bushists: Whoever opposes Bush must be a good guy.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 09:34 AM

Good post Wolfgang.

"That's the (non)thinking of the left Bushists: Whoever opposes Bush must be a good guy."

You hit it right on with that line ... concerning this thread.

That's what's dangerous about this guy Chavez ... all his Mussolini syle grandstanding attacking Bush .... this chump ain't got the jam to rise to any stature of a world leader.

BTW ... I certainly don't beleive his rationing out of cheap oil to the world's poor is an act of a generous heart ... just an act of political poker playing .... to bolster his own fat ego as the shining star of the world's oppressed.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 09:45 AM

One more post from me then I'm out of this thread ... there are a lot of lousy lying leaders on the global stage these days (yes, Bush taking the crown) but this guy Chavez takes the court jester's hat as far as I'm concerned.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 10:07 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:22 PM

Disliking Chavez, by the way, does not necessarily imply liking Bush any better.

Likewise, disliking (loathing?) Bush and all he stands for doesn't imply liking Chavez. Apparently "(non)thinking" isn't an attribute only of the "left Bushists" - whoever they are supposed to be.

Interesting that behavior by Bush that is applauded by the Right BuShists- remember the "axis of evil" and the "anyone who doesn't support me and my agenda is an Enemy of the United States"? - is denounced in Chavez and others.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:59 PM

GOP Candidates Keeping Bush Under Wraps

By JENNIFER LOVEN
The Associated Press
Saturday, September 23, 2006; 1:49 PM

WASHINGTON -- Since President Bush's approval rating sank to the lowest level of his presidency in May, nearly six in 10 of his appearances helping Republican candidates have been closed to all media coverage.

Unlike his barnstorming leading up to the 2002 congressional elections, when he was more popular and the divisive Iraq war had not begun, Bush has yet to hold a single traditional campaign-style rally for one of his party's hopefuls this election cycle.



HELL FOLKS, even his supporters don't want him out in public. Doesn't that tell ya something?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:29 PM

Bush approval rating surges on terror theme

By DPA

Washington, Sep 19 (DPA) US President George W. Bush's approval rating has rebounded to its highest in about a year as voters warm to his election-year strategy centred on the fight against terrorism, a poll showed Tuesday.

The Gallup poll suggests that Bush's campaign focus on security issues is helping his Republican Party, which is battling to keep its majority in both houses of Congress in Nov 7 mid-term elections.

In a critical shift, the poll found that US voters increasingly accept Bush's argument that the war in Iraq is part of his war on terror, sparked by the Sep 11, 2001 Al Qaeda attacks on the US.

And more Americans believe the fight against terrorism is going well than a year ago, the survey said.

'Americans are more positive about the war on terror and voters are more likely to vote for a candidate who supports Bush on terrorism rather then one who opposes him,' Gallup pollsters said.

At 44 percent, Bush's approval rating was well above the low 30-percent range of a few months ago - a sign that his series of high-profile speeches in the run-up to last week's emotional Sep 11 anniversary has helped sway voters.

The fight against terrorism is the centrepiece of Bush's campaign, which seeks to suggest that the US would be less safe if the opposition Democrats got control of Congress.

By a 31-21 percent margin, voters believe the nation is safer with a Republican majority, while 44 percent said it made no difference which party has legislative control, the poll said.

The telephone poll of 1,003 adults aged 18 and older was conducted Sep 15-17. The margin of error was plus or minus three percentage points.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:32 PM

Too cool. Now 44% of the country likes him.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:21 PM

or, put another way:

56% of Americans Think Bush Is A Jackass

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:27 PM

I seem to recall that the BuShites and the Grand Oil Party constantly saying they didn't believe in polls & polls were meaningless and that "government by polls" was anathema to them during the tenure of the previous administration.

The times do change, don't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:40 PM

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat

By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,'' it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, "Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement," cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

Whole article HERE

User "mudcat4" passwd "mudcat"

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:30 AM

Anatomy of a conflicted human being:

Bobert: Hugo is da' man

Bobert: My "hero", Oldster???

Must be nice in yer drug-induced world... Yeah, you just say whatever you want as if it had some factual basis???

Bite me, Ol'Guy... I never said that either...

Didn't yer mom ever give you the talk 'bout telling the truth???

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

TYhe Sixth Pillar of Islam: Jihad. Just as once we were instructed to 'kill a commie for Christ', so to are Muslims instructed to kill a non-believer for Allah. Assholes the lot of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST,hugo
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:44 PM

Viva Chavez and viva the workers and campesinos of Venezuela!
hugo

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 04:07 PM

VIVA!

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:31 AM

Venezuela Human Rights under Threat

Amnesty International has documented ill-treatment and torture and excessive use of force by the police and security forces over many years in Venezuela. Article 46 of the 1999 Constitution guarantees the right to physical integrity; to be free from torture or ill-treatment; of detainees to be treated with dignity; and of victims of these abuses to rehabilitation. It also stipulates that any state official responsible for causing, instigating or tolerating ill-treatment or mental or physical suffering will be punished according to law. In November 2002, the United Nations Committee against Torture welcomed such key elements of the 1999 Constitution and a number of other advances in the legal framework to prevent and punish acts of torture, but expressed concern at the continuing incidence of torture cases and the failure to investigate or punish those responsible. The Committee called for the introduction of specific anti-torture legislation to make effective the Constitutional prohibition. Despite efforts by national human rights organizations to advance both the legal and practical efforts to combat torture, no substantive progress has been made since the Committee made its recommendations. The inadequate legal framework, the absence of effective investigations and the increasing lack of credibility of institutions such as the CICPC, Attorney General's Office and the Defensoría del Pueblo, continue to make impunity for crimes of ill-treatment, torture or excessive use of force the norm...

...In January President Chávez sought to undermine the legitimacy of a number of reputable human rights organizations, such as Provea and the Red de Apoyo, by questioning their links to international organizations and making unfounded allegations of links to foreign governments. The public statements by President Chávez are in direct opposition to the 1999 UN Declaration on the Right and Responsibility of Individuals, Groups and Organs of Society to Promote and Protect Universally Recognized Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and risks encouraging further threats and attacks on human rights defenders. It is vital that the government and the opposition publicly recognise the legitimate role of human rights organizations and make clear that any harassment of human rights activists will not be tolerated...

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 12:14 PM

Funny thing is, I could've sworn I saw an obituary of Chomsky some months back. Is there some other 'celeb' [= someone who merits an obituary] who died recently?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 12:15 PM

Someone with a similar name, I mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:49 PM

Chomsky was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 the other day and he himself pointed out that there was a misinterpretation of what Chavez said re: who was/was not dead. Chomsky seemed to think that further discussion was a waste of air time.

I have neither heard nor read what Chavez actually said. I understand that he called Bush a Devil? Also Chomsky seemed to say that Chavez claimed that some high percentage of the world's population currently perceive the USA as being the greatest threat to global peace. Chomsky went on to make the point that less time should be spent fussing that Chavez said it, and more time spent worrying that it's true.

An interersting programme. Come to think of it, it might have been on BBC World Service at some ungodly hour.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:51 PM

Wonderful thing about the World service, there's always somewhere it's not only insomaniacs listening. A fascinating perspective on most things too...

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 08:26 PM

Yerah, but the Beeb never should have dropped its shortwave service to N. America. I still hoping they'll see the error of their ways......

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:23 PM

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat

By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

What this leak to the NYT does not mention is that in the secret report it says that pulling out of Iraq prematurely would "bring terrorists here to our shores again."

It also concludes that success in Iraq "will deal a crippling blow to terrorism around the world,"

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 11:27 PM

And this information comes from where? Fox Faux News?

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 11:35 PM

http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=30147

Subject: RE: BS: Noam Chomsky dead (not)
From: number 6
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 11:38 PM

Actually I heard that on CNN tonite ... apparently some hardliners in Washington are using this now as an excuse keep the war going over there ... pulling out, and all the bad guys will come over here and wreak havoc in our malls, towns and cities.

Just to let everyone know, posting this does not in any way align myself with the views stated.

now with that being said ...I will exit this thread once more.

sIx