BS: Clapping for the NHS

Subject: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:18 PM

For those not in UK, there's a new practice now of standing one ones doorstep every Thursday at 8pm either applauding or banging a saucepan, in order to applaud NHS workers.
Our neighbours have just done their weekly clap, but we didn't participate.
I would just feel so silly doing any such thing. Of course I admire all NHS workers (they've just saved my sister's life up in Scotland) but this virtue-signalling, especially in an isolated village in Norfolk, strikes me as completely daft.
Am I a miserable old misanthropist, or does anyone else feel the same?

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:28 PM

No.. in a crisis, a false sense of national unity needs to be created
in order to manage the minds of peer pressure controlled conformists...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM

I know what you mean, Sen. Encouragement and appreciation is one thing, but, like the fine words in the proverb, it butters no parsnips.

A journalist referenced the clapping tonight when Raab was questioned at 5pm tonight and asked would the government commit to something more tangible. Raab waffles a little and then said there would definitely be a point when this is considered. Then asked if there was a follow up question.   The journalist said something like, yes, there will obviously be a point it is considered. Will they get anything from that act of considering it?

Raab still tried to sound positive without making any such commitment.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:34 PM

We did and nearly everyone else at our end of the street did as well! My wife who has a medical training video full of medical conditions is showing mild coronavirus symptoms. She spoke to a young doctor at our surgery yesterday who was frankly useless, so today she had a telephone consultation with a private London GP, a friend of some 30 years, and was given extremely helpful information, not least of which was to keep away from any hospital unless absolutely necessary.

I have been counting the number of times I wash my hands with Tea Tree soap, and today has just topped 35!!

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:52 PM

Oh goodness Bonzo, I do hope your wife is okay! Funnily enough my sister was most reluctant to 'give in' and go into hospital, but she got to a point where she knew she would probably die alone in her house without oxygen and a ventilator.
Please don't misunderstand me. If our neighbours and half the village want to do this, who's to stop them? It's just I'd feel an absolute wally, and can't see the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 04:05 PM

We were watching the latest episode of Belgravia, and I heard what sounded like water dripping which got louder with the sound of somebody banging a saucepan - then we realised what was happening and stood outside our front door to join in!

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: JHW
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 04:05 PM

I don't mind being seen as silly (again) 14 houses in view from my door. Four nearest clapped last week, fireworks in next street maybe, train hooted a mile away. This week, 9th April, three more households.
Its a tiny something else to look forward to in these hard times.
Freinds in Scarborough are in old folks bungalows and flats, not many clapped but they could hear others beyond their railway, thats a mile or more so they were loud. The point is it CAN be heard.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: fat B****rd
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 04:29 PM

Been and clapped along with the lovely people upstairs ;-)
Got my NHS Rainbow sign in the front window (pretty pointless round the back!)and another I printed myself thanking the police, fire service, power workers and everybody who keeps things going for the rest of us.
A big shout out for Mr. Ali our newsagent who makes a point of delivering about 150 papers as all his paperpersons are off school and locked down.
Stay safe everybody whether you clapped or not.
Best from Charlie in Dunfermline.
Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 04:57 PM

Love this idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 05:46 PM

I can see upwards of 30 houses from ours, but none are in earshot, so there seems no point for us to do anything.

It does mean that we don't annoy anyone playing concertinas!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 07:04 PM

My 91-year-old mum is in a home six miles from me. We haven't been allowed to visit her for over four weeks. I used to go at least four times a week. The home's manager and deputy, Emma and Debbie, are totally lovely people. I've built a beautiful relationship with them over the last eighteen months that my mum's been there. Debbie has been setting up a FaceTime for me and my mum, but she can't do that now as phones aren't currently allowed in and out of the residents' rooms. My mum does have a phone, but her profound deafness prevents us from having conversations. I rang the home this afternoon, something I do about twice a week. Debbie told me that my mum is fine, though they've decided to test her and four other residents who all have long-term chesty issues (my mum has COPD from seventy years' smoking). There was a case of Coronavirus in the home, but the old lady in question has completely recovered and is now back there. Debbie sounded absolutely exhausted when I spoke to her this afternoon, and they are all feeling the burden of anxiety about their own and the residents' health, always on tenterhooks. They are suffering from a higher than usual rate of staff absence, and most of the staff (I know nearly all of them) are young mothers with children at home from school, unlike the rest of us, who, at most, queue obediently outside supermarkets once or twice a week, thinking that every step we take exposes us to a terrible plague so bad that the trolley handle must be studiously disinfected and that even the plastic bag that our spuds come in must be carrying that plague. Those care workers are mostly on the minimum bloody wage and they are working exhausting shifts, more often than not way beyond what they signed up to. And that's just care homes. Then we have doctors, nurses, the paramedics and all the hospital support staff who are also working long hours often in conditions that are a mortal threat to their health. And the teachers and the supermarket staff...

So you may well be my mate on this forum. But if you knew about the 8pm applause tonight but decided not to turn out, well sod you. You are so wrong. And maybe you can make the reasonable excuse that you voted Tory and are thereby far too ashamed to come out and bang your dustbin lid like me and Mrs Steve did. All I can say to that is that I'll let you off this time as long as you promise never to vote Tory again. But next Thursday, drop all your self-conscious crap, get out there and cheer like buggery the real heroes of this country. You might even have, somewhere, a decent dustbin lid to bang, as indeed do I.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 07:31 PM

I'd rather they got real pay, decent working conditions,
and the permanently raised level of respect they truly deserve,
than any vacuous short-term soon forgotten populist gestures...

pfr - son of a retired overworked, underpaid, undervalued, old folk's home care-worker..

husband of an infant school teacher, now treated as an expendable babysitter of essential worker's kids..

uncle of a front line in the f@cking trenches junior hospital doctor..
he's more in need of PPE than 5 mins hand clapping and pan & pot banging,
I'd humbly suggest...

btw.. I've never been one for being preached at...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 07:42 PM

.. besides which..

I was at the back of the house wiping my arse at 8 o clock,
while the wife was downstairs at the front clapping and whooping like a demented seal...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 09:37 PM

"I'd rather they got real pay, decent working conditions,
and the permanently raised level of respect they truly deserve,
than any vacuous short-term soon forgotten populist gestures"

Vacuous my big arse. And why the choice? Why not thank them loudly every bloody Thursday with our bin lids bashed with wooden spoons AND give them real pay and decent working conditions? You're a luvly feller, pfr, but I'm sort of resenting having my heartfelt support for our frontline public service workers called vacuous and populist...

Steve (long-time denizen, usually at six in the morning in the freezing cold, on picket lines in support of firemen, school cleaners and hospital workers...)

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 09:46 PM

So what you're embarrassed - some things are more important than that. If this does anything to help the people risking death for us, we should be glad to put up with a little embarrassment.

Solidarity matters.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:04 PM

Nothing better than genuine solidarity and unity..

.. and we'd hope that's at the core of this 8 o clock Thursday handclap..

But it is already being hijacked by tories as a populist ritual for their own propaganda purposes..
Sucking out the true meaningful intentions of that first social network viral flashmob clapping celebration..

let's not kid ourselves about that..

We've already got local tories in my town jumping on the bandwagon, trying to hijack it it into
a get well soon prayer handclap for boris.. ferfacksake...!!!

They're now trying to shame us neighbours for not joining in
their arselicking handclapping of their glorious leader back into good health......


The joys of living in a perpetually old tory dominated constituency...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:15 PM

..and less of the antagonistic controlling exhortations please mates...

I'll do what i can to show unity in my own quiet way,
rather than being bullied into making a loud show in public..
That'll just make folks like me even more obstinate and resistant...

It's bad enough my wife and my lives are being put at risk
by her compulsory essential worker status,
with no provided PPE...

She's nearly 60, a dangerous age for key workers and their spouses,
to be exposed to such expendable cannon fodder risks...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:52 PM

Working safely from home managing young teachers at schools,
has not been provided as an option
for older more vulnerable senior teachers in my wife's local academy group..

So yes, i'm fully aware and supportive of..

"If this does anything to help the people risking death for us"...

Now mates, please stop nagging...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:27 AM

We had been there from the start but totally forgot last night :-( Mea Culpa. I shall make twice as much noise next week.

Can anyone suggest a suitable tune to play with a medical theme?

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:58 AM

In our road more people are joining in each week. I added the awful clamour of the Washboard of Mass Destruction last night which may have lowered the tone too much. If there hasn't been a petition to stop me I may continue next week.
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:12 AM

The theme to Doctor Finlay's Casebook (March from Trevor Duncan's Little Suite?) is quite a simple tune to play.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:14 AM

We were also clapping for the NHS care of Johnson of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Murpholly
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:27 AM

Friends across the road complained we had not joined in last week and so last night my hubby went one better and went outside with his squeeze box which when opened up fully makes a lot of noise. He played two or three tunes and we are not sure if folk were clapping in time or giving him some applause. It did bring a few more out in support though and gave us the chance to shout a few best wishes to neighbours we have not seen for a couple of weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:27 AM

We wish Johnson all the best for full recovery.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:30 AM

As do we all, I imagine.

But when the Express, for example, tries to introduce "Clap For Boris", I object to a take-over like that. Have a Clap for Boris on Tuesdays, if you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:33 AM

Bit of a distinction to be made here, pfr. If you choose to refrain from the clapping, that's grand. Nobody I know is trying to pressurise or bully anyone else into doing it. But if you choose not to do it, then stick your head above the parapet to call our actions vacuous or populist or useless, that ridicule actually seems to be pressurising US not to do it. Everyone I know comes out to do it. With everyone I know, this little action has promoted discussion and heightened awareness of the sacrifices being made by those workers on the front line and the dangers they confront every day. That includes your missus, my sister (who is doing exactly same as your missus as it happens) and all those beautiful people who are looking after my mum with such love. We can't get them a pay rise or better safety kit by going out to applaud them. But we can show our deep appreciation, maybe make them feel a tad better about life, and make the stinking Tories shift uncomfortably from privileged buttock to privileged buttock as we let them know what they've done to OUR NHS and care sector. But mostly, just to show our appreciation and gratitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:35 AM

Clap for Boris? I know that he's a despicable womaniser, but I wouldn't wish a dose of the clap even on him...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:16 AM

There is an 8 PM applause and spontaneous acts like yelling or howling.
Cites are bathed in blue light to celebraie health care workers here.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:54 AM

Trying to get this started here.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 10:37 AM

Steve - I've just done my little bit to show appreciation and support for my wife's risky essential work,
now I don't think my lower back and neck will recover for days...

Right then.. I'm tearing that page out of Alex Comfort's old illustrated instruction book...

..and as for me describing the applause as vacuous, or or an empty gesture,
or whatever other words i care to choose
to express my opinion of peer pressure exhortations to conform to a ritual..

Look at it from the point of view of an older lower ranking officer
compulsorily pushed into the front-lines,
ie.. my mrs, accompanied by me - her batmnan..

While civilians far to the rear safely tucked up in their homes,
hand out white feathers
to chide any folks who fall out of line with populist oficial line propagandising shows of 'support'..???

We don't want applause for being pushed into the trenches..
We are pissed off being shoved into the f@ckin dangerous trenches without gas masks and helmets...!!!

We weren't even asked if we wanted to willingly choose to volunteer
as cannon fodder...

Nah, I'll call the thursday 8 o clock flag waving charade whatever I bloomimg well like...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 10:39 AM

"batmnan"..???

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 10:56 AM

"But if you choose not to do it, then stick your head above the parapet to call our actions vacuous or populist or useless,that ridicule actually seems to be pressurising US not to do it"

Nope.. I'm not ridiculing or pressurising anyone..

That's just your take on me expressing an honest justifiable dissenting opinion - a fair "imho",
considering my resentment of a foolish inept PM ordering the potential sacrifice
of my wife's and my health and lives...
When there are other more effective strategies the tory govt
should have implemented instead..

Excuse me if I might see this as far right revenge on the teaching profession, they have reviled, maligned, and mistreated for years...

Nah.. clapping and pot banging don't do it for me..

It won't be like a normal infant school teaching day.
when all she usually just brings home is coughs, colds, and head lice...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 11:48 AM

DtG - that's me in neutral gear...

I haven't come anywhere near full on overdrive piss taking ridicule..

..and have no desire to unless provoked...

Btw.. I have never had any urge to 'pressurise' any other human being
about anything...

So that notion can f@ck right off...

I'll leave that sort of thing to the habitual control freaks amongst us..

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:11 PM

To clap or not to clap is a matter of personal choice. Mrs. Backwoodsperson and I choose to clap, but I hold no negative opinions with regard to those who choose not to.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:54 PM

DtG - I appreciate how much folk club folkies relish any opportunity
for a rousing happy clappy communal singalong..

fair enough.. but never my cuppa tea..


However, seen from my less than happy point of view..

"These bolshy ungrateful key worker conscripts
don't show enough respect,
for how much good we do sending them off to die on the front=line,
with our loud patriotic clapping and pot banging...!!!"...?????

Ps.. got a text from my hospital junior Dr nephew...
[a town up north]

Covid has hit his hospital, not too hard yet, and he's ok for the moment...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:41 PM

And you told us that we were being vacuous,short-term and and populist when we applauded the front-line workers. And that you don't like being preached at. Or bullied. Sheesh. I thought you were better than this, I really did.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:54 PM

Stay safe and well - I hope my wife and I do as well,
when it's her next turn on the rota
to be exposed unprotected to infant kid's of potentially infected essential workers...

btw... news flash...

Teacher, 35, dies 'after contracting virus'

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:18 PM

Ok my neighborhood online group is up to doing this, at 7 when the shift change happens. Weds.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:32 PM

Nope. We are simply saying that we approve of, and participate in, the weekly supporting of all those key frontline workers. We're not saying that we can get them their kit or get them paid more. We want to show our appreciation and solidarity, that's all. We are really not saying that you don't have the right to demur. Fair enough if you do. But that isn't what you did. You went a lot further. You said that our actions were vacuous, short-term and populist. You didn't have to say that, but you did. You could have respected our right to do our good-hearted supporting, whatever your view of its shallowness, but, instead, you decided to knock us. That invites biting back, and it seems that you can't take that. I haven't done a poll, but you need to reflect that you are almost certainly in a minority, and you also need to reflect that nearly all those people who turn out to applaud are good-hearted and well-meaning people who are actually thinking a lot more about the brave folk who are the ones who are truly propping up this country. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:37 PM

Two of our neighbours - a husband and wife - are Paramedics. If they are off-shift when we all come out for the weekly show of appreciation, they come out and applaud/rattle pans/yadda yadda, with us. They say they are very heartened by the public show of support.

Good enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 07:28 PM

Hospitals have been treating sick people, with all sorts of infectious diseases, before the arrival of Covid-19 but nobody applauded then. The current pandemic will fade away in time and, with it, the weekly applause. The applause may, in fact, fade away first as the novelty wears off.

I am sure that most people joining in the 8 o’clock applause are showing solidarity and this will give support to those being applauded, but there will also be a number who are simply taking part in an ‘event’, in the same way as those who line the streets for a newsworthy funeral of someone they have never met. They are doing for their own benefit, so they can feel involved.
(before anyone takes offence, I am not classing anyone who has contributed to this thread in the latter group)

Unlike bears, coronavirus can’t be scared off by lots of noise, so the practical value of the Thursday ritual is somewhat limited. One of my daughters, who works for the NHS, has been given a free upgrade in her motor insurance cover and had Iceland to herself when shopping after work this week. Another daughter and my son work in the kitchen of a care home. They each received a large box of basic foodstuff from their employer, this week. That sort of support is much more important than gestures, however well meaning.

All that having been said, clapping may give some support in the short term and certainly can't do any harm unless others are pressured to conform.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 08:57 PM

Nobody is pressured to conform, and that's the third time I've said that. The nub of this issue here, denied by pfr who is usually so honest and straightforward, is that he attacked the actions of the millions who went out to applaud as vacuous, short-term and populist (blimey, "populist" fer chrissake!). As if he knows why we went out and did it, which he patently doesn't. I personally don't give a flying shite about "the practical value" of the Thursday night applauding. I for one don't turn out to do it for any "practical value". I do it to show support for and solidarity with the health workers, care workers, supermarket workers and school workers who are all putting themselves in harm's way for the good of others, including me, which happens to be a damn sight more than I'm doing. I'm not going to judge the motives of anyone else who turns out to applause. There's way too much bloody judging going on as it is. I hear judging of people sunbathing in parks by people with private gardens the size of football fields. I hear tut-tutting of people sitting on the beach by people with massive balconies with panoramic sea views. You can shove your judging where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned. I'll be out there next Thursday and I happen to have a gorgeous dustbin lid to bang. Join me if you want or don't bother. But if you're too "embarrassed," or you think we're all being a bit stupid and vacuous, well just shut yer gob about it. You have seriously got better things to whine about.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 04:25 AM

The point here is that it is offensive to refer to warm and genuine expressions of gratitude for the workers who put themselves in harm's way in these extraordinary times (as opposed to normal, safer times, Doug) in negative terms such as vacuous, short-term and populist. Of course, we have no right not to be offended, but neither has pfr if we bite back. And this is a mid-morning post.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Raedwulf
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 04:18 PM

I feel the same, Sen, don't worry. And I, ooo-arr, am Naarfolk tu, as 'ee knoe, lass! ;-)

I don't wear my team's shirt, I don't fly a Union or England Flag. I donate to the Royal British Legion every year, but I never take a poppy. Doesn't mean I don't respect. I just don't do display.

A very left-leaning friend posted a meme this morning that amounted to "Were you applauding them 5 years ago? Will you be applauding them in 5 years? And why did you vote the Tories back in if you respect the NHS so much?" Etc. I respected NHS workers before this started, I'll respect them after it ends and, to be honest, this hasn't changed that all. They've always had a difficult job to do, not least because the electorate keep voting the CON jobs in!*

Do I feel the need to clap to show respect? No. I can understand that there are reasons for doing so, especially if you live in a fairly urban environment. It strengthens community feeling for one. But I don't think the newly-sown field of spinach out front of me is going to be all that influenced, one way or the other if I do it or don't...

*NB: I don't vote for the LAB rats either. They'd only screw things up differently, not less or more. But at least they'd fund the NHS better, instead of trying to screw it into the ground!

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 05:00 PM

Thank you for that Raedwulf, I don't do display either. It doesn't mean I have no respect or admiration in my heart for NHS workers, or any other group that is doing its best for our society.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 05:11 PM

I have absolute admiration for both NHS workers and likewise private sector hospital workers who are now looking after NHS patients.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 07:48 PM

"I don't do display." Well bugger me. Not a lot to brag about there, is there? :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 04:27 AM

Why do some people on here try to inject political posturing into any thread they come across? I thought Mudcat now allowed only ONE political thread, but here we go again.
I am sick and tired of being lambasted about my voting choice when I merely wished to discuss social gestures and ways of supporting the NHS workers with applause etc.
Please,stay on the Politics thread and stop attacking me, it's absolutely infuriating (and despicable).

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 05:08 AM

stop attacking me

I didn't attack you, Eliza. Why so defensive? And it is the Tories that have tried to turn the clapping for the NHS into a political gesture.

Clap for Boris

Now, that IS despicable

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 05:34 AM

That wasn't directed at you Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 05:40 AM

You can clap for my wife who is trying to bring her temperature down with ice packs.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 06:12 AM

My thoughts are with you Bonzo. Hope she's soon feeling better.
Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 06:42 AM

Thank you Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 06:53 AM

In Ireland we have done some of the clapping sessions that have crossed the world, but lately we're doing what we do on Christmas Eve: putting a light in the window.

Traditionally this is a candle left in the window to guide the Holy Family on their wanderings towards Bethlehem; it used also be the custom to lay an extra place at the table… whether anyone actually invited in any wandering beggar as is the intention of this custom is another question.

The light in the window now is a salute to, a thanks to, and a protective wish for all the medics, hospital cleaners, hospital porters, ambulance and fire brigade staff, gardaí and others who are keeping the light of civilisation alive amid the pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 06:58 AM

That wasn't directed at you Dave

Maybe not conciously, Eliza but as your response came immediately after my post I think I may have triggered something. There is a much better may to support the NHS of course. Don't assist those that would dismantle it :-)

My thoughts are with you too, Bonzo. Hope your wife gets better soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 07:26 AM

THank you Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 08:08 AM

Best thoughts from Dunfermline, Bonzo
Charlie

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 08:13 AM

Bonzo, best of wishes to your wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 08:44 AM

If it's a thread about the NHS, it's going to get political. Labour founded the NHS in the teeth of bitter Tory opposition whether you like it or not, and, true to their natural instincts, the Tories have run down the NHS concertedly. Four years ago a report stated that the NHS was not in a proper state to handle a major crisis. That report was ignored by the Tories. We are now several months into this crisis and doctors and nurses on the front line are dying or getting sick through lack of proper protective gear, and haven't been tested in timely manner to make sure that they aren't spreading the virus in hospitals. Now we hear that there is an impending shortage of vital anaesthetics and that doctors may have to look for less desirable alternatives. The voting choices of those who chose Tory have brought this about, whether they meant to or not. We don't know what Labour would have done had they been in, and silly guesswork about that is shallow and disingenuous. The Tories have had ten years with an NHS that was in pretty decent nick when they took over after 13 years of Labour, lest we forget, and just look at us now. As for going out to applaud, for the fourth time, it's grand if you don't want to. But coming on a forum with lofty statements about how it's infra dig, or that you "don't do display", etc., or that you consider it to be useless, short-term, vacuous or populist, is a kick in the teeth for all those good-hearted people who actually just want to show that they care and express solidarity with front-line workers. It's your perfect right to say those things, but it's also our perfect right to say that we think you're wrong-headed about it, not for not doing it, but when you speak out against it. My bin lid is all ready for 8 PM Thursday.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 08:52 AM

I have dug out the bodhran and the tambourine. Heaven help the neighbours :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 11:27 AM

Bejaysus, I have two bodhrans unused for 25 years. I forgot about them. Out they're coming!

We used to get an annual visit by a spoons "player" who used to dress up as a Roundhead (or was it a Cavalier...) at our session years ago, for one of those re-enactments. Eventually, I seriously had to tell him to bugger off. Even he would be welcome of a Thursday evening now!

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 12:05 PM

I've got about 300 watts of mini PA, and a drum machine with hand-clap samples..

.. and they can stay in their storage boxes..

Because I personally thank care workers and NHS staff, by phone and emails just about every day...

..so stuff it up the jumper of any mates trying to impose their opinionated will
on anyone else...

No matter how well-intentioned they think they're being...

I also just thanked a front-line essential worker teacher again,
and nearly put my back out in the process...

[Right, I'm tearing that page out of Dr Comfort's manual as well...!!!]

WE can all do our OWN little bit to share the LOVE for real heroes
in our OWN positive ways...


Take care Bonz mate, whatever our politics, our love for our spouses is a universal bond
WE ALL have in common...

AND MANY THANKS to the emergency paramedic crew and A&E staff
who looked after my old mum so recently after a fall,
and a very bruised bum...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 12:15 PM

No one is trying to impose anything on anyone, PFR. It's entirely up to you whether you clap or not. Just as I can choose to join without being accused of being involved in a vacuous, flag-saving charade :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 12:27 PM

"..so stuff it up the jumper of any mates trying to impose their opinionated will
on anyone else..."

For the fifth time...nobody is trying to impose their will on anybody else. If you don't want to clap, don't clap. That's great. I simply think that your opinion about the clapping, as you bluntly expressed it here (vacuous, short-term, populist...) is wrong. Please note the word THINK. If you can be blunt in that manner, you shouldn't be surprised that someone who doesn't agree with you can be just as blunt. The people who turn out to applaud are doing it for good motives. The words you used sounded like words of ridicule and came across as mean-spirited.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 10:55 PM

Well, I may have gotten the media interested...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: mg
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 12:38 AM

i think clapping is fine but excessive noise when people might be struggling with this illness might not be the most sensitive approach. Some of what I have seen in other countries like loud instruments would not be my choice of sound if i were ill

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 04:39 AM

He is being pressured though, Steve. Some time back he said his neighbours are bringing pressure to bear and there are local right wing thugs involved. Ok, no pressure on here but I am quite happy to provide a vent for the frustration caused elsewhere :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 06:05 AM

Ok, no pressure on here ....

Communication, and miscommunication for that matter, is about how things are received as much as how they are intended.

So you may well be my mate on this forum. But if you knew about the 8pm applause tonight but decided not to turn out, well sod you. You are so wrong.

Some might interpret that as pressure.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 07:04 AM

Nope. A firmly-expressed point of view is not pressure. In no way was I telling him what to do. And we are all grown-ups here, Doug. Cue cheap shot response from someone or other...

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 08:08 AM

I didn't perceive that as pressure to applaud, Doug. Not did I see calling it a vacuous, flag waving charade as pressure to stop doing it. But I do take your point about pressure being as much about how it is received. I cannot say how PFR received it but his robust response makes me think he is not one to buckle under easily!

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 08:56 AM

41 grocery clerks have died from Covid here. They made $11.31 an hour.
They are first responders too.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 11:40 AM

There are comparable episodes of applause in the US, especially in hard hit places like New York City and New Orleans. Lines of police and firefighters on the street outside the hospital staff exits as well. It isn't like they can do anything about the personal protective equipment, the lack of ventilators, the piling up of bodies, but they can express support. A friend of mine lives a block north of the old St. Vincent's location - in an email the other day he remarked on the time, noting that he could hear people clapping from the street and surrounding buildings. He's usually a curmudgeon to do with city noise, but I think the streets are so much quieter now that it's probably a surreal thing to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 12:09 PM

Eliza started this thread to talk about supporting health care workers and other front-line help. She didn't start it so some of you could ramp up the political discussions or complain about moderation or keep sniping to see if the next set of off-topic complaints have been removed.

Grow up. Let this thread be what it was intended and go talk politics on the UK political thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 12:18 PM

If you haven't seen it on Instagram, you might want to find and follow @goodnews_movement. It's run by @iammichellefigueroa and has been a huge boost for people supporting healthcare workers, grocery clerks, delivery people, first- and last- response workers, and neighbors working the cheer their neighbors.

This article might help you track it down: https://people.com/royals/how-meghan-markle-and-prince-harrys-only-follow-on-instagram-is-changing-the-social-media-game/

Or try this: Instagram. This is world-wide coverage.

Subject: RE: BS: Clapping for the NHS
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 01:49 PM

Clearly we can't have anything nice here. The group ganging up on this thread to talk politics, to discuss moderation, to request particular moderation (we tried to add something new and you decided it meant you could get away with all sorts of crap) isn't what this thread was about.

---

Eliza and I had a conversation, after the moderators had a conversation, about the behavior of the British men on this thread.

This is what I told Eliza in one of our exchanges:
"It is strange - many of them I consider friends, but they simply refused to "get it" when they were told they were off topic and bullying others. I saw a group of middle-aged and older white British men announcing to the women on the thread that what they wanted to discuss was okay because it was what they wanted to talk about. And when I said "no," then they wanted to argue about it. None of that having to do with the thread."

I do consider many of you friends, but I am deeply disappointed at how incredibly thoughtless and dense you were regarding this topic. And how dismissive of the attempt to turn the thread around. You guys can do better; let's hope the turnaround comes real soon.