England's County Anthems

Subject: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Martin Norcsalordie
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:12 AM

Hi Mudcatters,

Whilst playing a gig in Shrewsbury, I had a idea for a band project (as you do...)
As we know that Trelawny is the county anthem of Cornwall and that the Lincolnshire Poacher is the unofficial anthem of Lincolnshire, my question is this:

Barring recent artificial attempts at creating an "official" anthem, what are the respective anthems - official or not - of England's Counties?

Prime example of artificial attempt is A Song for Devon whilst clearly Widdecombe Fair would be the county's first choice.

Other ones I have are:
Yorkshire - On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at
Sussex - Sussex By The Sea

I'd be particularly keen to find out what Kent's is!

Many Thanks
Martin Norcsalordie

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM

I suppose Lancashire's would be She's a Lassie From Lancashire, though Rawtenstall Annual Fair would be a contender. Derbyshire's is obvious. Would Nottamun Town do for Nottingham?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:31 AM

I've a nasty feeling that 'Dorset is Beautiful' is ours......

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:35 AM

If the Wurzels didn't sing the Somerset one then I'll be a Hartlepool monkey's uncle

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:45 AM

Mrs Raffles suggests The White Cliffs of Dover for Kent ?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:45 AM

Kent: Hopping Down in Kent

Some other thoughts:

Lancashire: Lancashire Lads
Tyneside: Bonny Gateshead Lass
Northumberland: Hesleyside Reel (or a song Dance To Your Daddy)
Yorkshire: Holmfirth Anthem

Nah, tired of songs . . .

Somerset: Radstock Jig
Oxfordshire: Old Tom Of Oxford
Lake District: Trip To Cartmel
Staffordshire: Flaxley Green
Hampshire: Kempshott Hunt
London: Maiden Lane


. . . and so on . . .

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: melodeonboy
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 07:49 AM

I'm not aware that Kent has one. If it did, I'd be very diappointed not to have heard of it by now.

If this be the case, am I allowed to nominate "Man of Kent" by Bob Kenward?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 08:37 AM

Northumberland: Spirit of the Border (Tom Clough)
or Lindisfarne (Matt Seattle)
or Lads of Alnwick
or Morpeth Rant

Tyneside: Dance to Your Daddy, or (I suppose) Blaydon Races

Durham: Durham Rangers

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 08:47 AM

Lots more choices than Ilkley Moor for Yorkshire--try the Dalesman's Litany or browse here Yorkshire Garland Songs!

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 08:49 AM

North Tyneside: Dance To Your Daddy, yes.
South Tyneside: Here's The Tender Coming
Durham: I've Got To Leave Old Durham Town (Roger Whittaker), no don't think so.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:11 AM

Hopping Down In Kent - that one gets my vote
Rochester Recruiting Sergeant - written by Pete Coe, a good alternative.
Deserter From Kent - seems a bit too simple for my tastes.
Folkestone Murders - dark deeds. Too dark for an anthem.
Not in digitrad but worth mentioning is Men Of Kent:-

MEN OF KENT

If you're wanting me on Monday, then I won't be there
I'll be bound off to Maidstone afore to see the fair
With me pockets full of money and a heart that's full of joy
There's many a thing in Maidstone to please a country boy

CH> So come all you jolly fellows to Maidstone we will go
Never mind the weather, be it rain or be it snow
We'll sport and we will drink my boys 'till all our money's spent
And we'll prove to the world my boys, we're all Men of Kent

If you're wanting me on Tuesday you know where I'll be found
I'll be down by the alehouse that's on the edge of town
A-drinking of the Kentish ales to drive away the dust
And eating of the finest foods until I'm fit to bust

If you're wanting me on Wednesday I'll tell you where I'll be
I'll be down by the Medway, fair maidens for to see
I'll pick me one that's handsome and likes a bit of fun
And I'll relieve her of her maidenhead before the day is done

On Thursday and Friday I'll be drunk as I can be
With all my friends around me, as far as I can see
With a wench a-sitting on my knee and a tankard at my lips
And the beard that hangs beneath my chin a-soaking up the drips

Now when the fair is over and I have had my fill
I'll make my way back home again, I'm feeling rather ill
And to my home and farm again my weary legs I'll steer
And start saving up my money to come back again next year

So come all you jolly fellows to Maidstone we will go
Never mind the weather, be it rain or be it snow
We'll sport and we will drink my boys 'till all our money's spent
And we'll prove to the world my boys, we're all Men of Kent

Might as well do a "lyric add" huh?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:14 AM

I think I'd prefer Robin hood riding through the glen - after all everybody's heard of Robin and the Sherriff of Nottingham.

nottanum town - the meanings a bit obscure - even to people who sing it.

The football team in Derby is called the rams - so i suppose the derby ram would be popular choice .

i think however most folkies would prefer Hey Up me Duck! which just beautifully encapsulates a speech pattern and the industrial age gone forever. a songwriting achievment of the very highest order. It celebrates the greatness of the county better than any number of statues of industrialists.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:19 AM

Derbyshire: Down In Yon Forest / Valley

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

Nottinghamshire: Thorneymoor Woods

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:25 AM

I think there's a Devon Glorious Devon well up and running already. Cunberland as was, and it does for the new Cumbria as well, has the very well-established John Peel.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:28 AM

Cheap + cheesy link here - apologies before I start

Dead Horse - your Men of Kent don't seem to venture very far from Maidstone which by pure chance is where Norcsalordie (who started the thread) are appearing tomorrow afternoon at 15:00 in The Flowerpot - ME14 2RJ

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM

I am sure there MUST be a better song for Sussex than that Sussex By The Sea.
Mebbe something from The Coppers?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:41 AM

Sussex: Sweet Wivelsfield
Cornwall: Way Down To Lamorna

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:46 AM

Essex: Through Bushes & Briars
South Coast Naval Towns In General: Rambling Sailor

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:03 AM

Martin asked what the anthems, official or unofficial, are. He didn't ask for suggestions for new ones, so it might help if we were to say whether we're providing information, wild guesses, or just nominations. At the moment the discussion seems to have turned into a poll for folk songs that might serve on the grounds that they happen to mention a county or a place in one, or to have been sung there at some point; all good fun, but a complete change of subject.

In many cases the official march of the county regiment is as close as you'll get to a 'county anthem'. On that basis, for Berkshire you have 'The Dashing White Sergeant', and for Wiltshire 'The Vly be on the Turmut'. There are others; perhaps somebody who knows about military music would like to help out.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:07 AM

I'll go and play my balalaika instead.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Martin Norcsalordie
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:09 AM

Thanks for your suggestions so far!
I've finally taken the plunge and listened to a clip of the "official" Devon anthem. I defy anyone to listen to it and not start frothing at the mouth - really.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Martin Norcsalordie
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:12 AM

Yes, as Malcolm said, I'm after the Trelawny-s of the other counties. I've heard that some football chants can form part of the anthem too, such as Blaydon Races.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Dave Earl
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:20 AM

How about Shepherd of the Downs for Sussex

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:38 AM

When I was a kid about nine or ten, i can remember the now defunct Lincolnshire regiment (called the Poachers) marching in a parade to the strains of the Lincolnshire Poacher through Boston town centre, with their bayonets fixed. It was some sort of custom - they had the right to do it - because the regiment had been awarded the freedom of the town.

it was a wonderful sight. very exciting and inspiring for a little kid.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:50 AM

Surely the unofficial Kent anthem is "the Nutting Girl" - closely followed by the (title has eluded me) "Twistng, turning, wandering free, flows Medway Softly to the Sea" and maybe even Don Thompson's Medway song - and isn't there one about the Medway Queen as well? Or what about "Jolly boys of the Arethusa"?

Cornwall - now what's the title and who wrote it? Mike Nicholson and Peter Collins both sing it - is it called "Cornish Lads"?

I've not heard your last three suggestions, Dead Horse. Will you do them for us on Sunday afternoon the 25th Jan at the Nag's Head?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: JeffB
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 12:21 PM

Malcolm, this is a fun thread. You know (or perhaps you don't) the sort of thread where people use wit and imagination to entertain each other. I don't see how anyone can find out whether an "anthem" is "official" or not in any case. So let's nominate and guess wildly at as many as we feel like. Perhaps eventually our respective County Halls will pick up on somw and there will really be some "official anthems".

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 12:33 PM

Diane Easeby: I dont think the Cornish can have "Away Down to Lamorna" as their own anthem. It is only a very slight rewrite of the extremely Mancunian "Away Down to Pomona". In any case, Trelawney has done me fine all my life and I feel no urge to change now!

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 12:43 PM

As Malcolm Douglas has decreed that is has to be some boring regimental militarism, neither apparently will do.
So, for Cornwall: Camborne Hill.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 01:04 PM

spped the plough for suffolk,this used to be the marching tune for the regiment based in Bury St edmunds[where I lived for many years]
west suffolks.
otherwise the suffolk miracle,might do

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 02:03 PM

Holmfirth Anthem won't do for Yorkshire

It is, after all, the Holmfirth anthem.

I appreciate that those (like Mrs T) who are from those parts think it is the whole of Yorkshire, but.....

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Little Robyn
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 02:29 PM

We'm com oop from Zummerzet....
Robyn

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM

Why ever not the Holmfirth Anthem for Yorkshire?
It's a lot more rousing that Scarborough Fair (or 'Ull 'n' 'Alifax 'n' 'Ell . . .).
The French, after all, use the name of one southern port for the national anthem.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 02:39 PM

Didn't Wiltshire claim The Turmot Hoer at one time? I have also heard a version of the Blackbird song being claimed as the Cornish Anthem.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: sid
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 03:21 PM

"A Lancashire Mon" by Henry Yates(1841-1906). He was born on Blackstone Edge (near Saddleworth I beleive) in the heart of Lancashire.

Last verse:-

There may be a shire 'at is broader,
But ther's nobbut one Ceawnty - just one,
'At King is a Duke on - that's Lanky,
An' ther's nowt licks a Lancashire Mon!

"She's a Lassie from Lancashire" was written in London by Murphy, Lipton & Neat in 1906! It's nowt t'do wi' us.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 03:29 PM

If non-Yorkshire residents are going to assign an anthem for God's own Country

(which has so many wonderful possibilities--if you are going to settle on just one place and allow recent songs, Stan Graham's Whitby Harbour, or Roger Davies' Huddersfield Town...or the anonymous Barnsley Anthem)

then I'll propose Robert Saint's Gresford for County Durham.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 03:47 PM

I am Yorkshire born (which is obvious from my name) and my family goes back many centuries. I am thus more qualified than most to speak on behalf of my county.
What the OP wants is anthem-like pieces (such as Trelawney) and the Holmfirth Anthem seems eminently suitable for Yorkshire. Equally so would be Spencer The Rover which Robin Dransfield recorded with a brass band accompaniment.
Either must be better than any Green Howards military march anyway (especially as the Howards nicked our ancestral pastures).

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 04:01 PM

The origins of the Holmfirth Anthem:
info here is not Yorkshire

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Barden of England
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 04:05 PM

For Kent, my vote goes to almost any song by Bob Kenward. Kent's finest songwriter about the county. I've yet to hear one from Chris Wood, but I presume he has written one or two.
John Barden

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 04:24 PM

I'm inclined to go with Martin who originated the thread and Malcolm's interpretation, given that Martin came back and agreed with him having said originally that it was for a project.

On my pc Malcom says "the official march of the county regiment is as close as you'll get" which is at odds with "has decreed that is has to be some boring regimental militarism"

So - suspending the wit and imagination for this post only - I would suppose that a significant proportion of a county's population would at least recognise the song - not just us folkies, and when they heard the song they would feel that it belonged more to them than to people in other counties

It follows therefore (anyone still awake?) that people from outside the county are not in the best position to say what it should be. So not being best qualified for any of these counties these appear to me (note - Appear To Me) to be the best contenders so far

Cornwall - Trelawney
Tyneside - Blaydon Races
Dorset - Dorset is Beautiful
Somerset - I am a Cider Drinker (based on the number of requests when playing there)
Yorkshire - Ilkley Moor
Derbyshire - The Derby Ram
Lancashire - She's a Lassie from Lancashire (?)
Cumbria - John Peel
Sussex - Sussex by the Sea (based on it being adopted by Brighton and Hove Albion
Lincolnshire - Lincolnshire Poacher
Devon - Widdecombe Fair (by popular selection as per link in the first post)

and entering the realms of suggestion -

Buckinghamshire - The Eton Boating Song

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 04:53 PM

birmingham - We Gotta get out of this Place

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 05:14 PM

Eton is in Berkshire.It was moved wholesale at the same time as Slough was booted out of Buckinghamshire. Thus, I nominate for Berkshire: Eton Rifles by The Jam.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 05:40 PM

As I said - not best qualified - I stand corrected. For me it all started going wrong when Hackney was taken out of Middlesex

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Tammy
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 06:05 PM

Malcolm Douglas: Explain what the The Dashing White Sergeant has to do with Berkshire or any other English County Anthem.

Wikepedia: The Dashing White Sergeant is a Scottish folk dance, performed to a similarly titled piece of music. The dance is in 4/4 time, thus it is a form of reel. The dance is performed by groups of six dancers.

I was sorry to read you were ill recently, did you have an operation to get rid of your sense of humour?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 06:14 PM

'Dorset is beautiful' is the unofficial anthem of the county. It's true anthem, and the regimental song of the Dorset Regiment (before they became the Devon and Dorsets), is 'To be a farmers' boy'.

I've seen the Devon and Dorsets march down High West and High East Street, with bayonets fixed, to that tune, for the same reason... in common with most county towns, the county regiment has the right to march at certain times of the year, with bayonets fixed.

I can't remember why they were marching, I was about 3 or 4, but the Queen had visited earlier that day - I remember seeing the back of her head in a long black car. She was wearing a pink hat.

LTS

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 06:30 PM

"I can't remember why they were marching"

and I ask myself the same question :-)

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 06:46 PM

There's been a discussion about To Be a Farmer's Boy as a regimental march before and I think it was pointed out that a number of county regiments used it, including the Hampshires. The Devon and Dorsets no longer exist, having been subsumed into the Rifles.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,TommyTrinder
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:32 PM

Most fellow Yorkshiremen (and indeed women) would be more familiar with "Ilkley Moor Baht 'at" than the "Holmfirth Anthem" (which I've never heard outside of the folk circuit).

I wouldn't know what Kent's anthem is, but I'd assume many people would be familiar with "Hopping Down In Kent" from their schooldays.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:33 PM

The tune of the first is not from Yorkshire and the Holmfirth anthem is not a Yorkshire song!--I confess I'm still not clear on the criteria and purpose of the selection.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM

WLD I thought that the football team was called Derby County Nil??