Tessa Jowell and emails

Subject: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 08:19 AM

The Guardian reports today: Page 7 Sports Section/Digger Column/under the headline

"Caborn fails to get the message"
that Tessa Jowells has only received 136 work-related emails since
January. I for one intend to make sure that that is remedied
immediately.

It is [e-mail]. Most people campaigning against the Bill will have some ideas about the sort of thing to ask.

However one issue which I have been pursuing with some interesting results is that of Recreational Dancing - the fact that eg that my wife who is scottish goes to scottish country dancing every Monday night. Pays to cover costs - not for profit.

The class usually takes place in a school to recorded music but sometimes it they have do a live band. This causes problems at the DCMS as you might imagine..........the first reply was that "dancing for fun" does not need a licence.......I have asked the civil servant in question to repeat that just to make sure - he is clearly having second thoughts as I write!!

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
www.holmfirthfestival.com



Dave

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 09:56 AM

Does that mean that all the young 'clubbers' of England and Wales, also 'dancing for fun', will not require their premises to be licensed?

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:12 PM

Make that 137.

Or 138 with yours.

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 02:51 PM

[snip] Does that mean that all the young 'clubbers' of England and Wales, also 'dancing for fun', will not require their premises to be licensed? [/snip]

Well it does seem that the Department keeps getting its wires crossed and I now have got two occasions when the civil servant has written to me and said words previously written do not mean what they say.

The first occasion was that the standard letter to MP's from Kim Howells says " We need to have a reliable definition of what constitutes a public performance and it is clear that if a musician or other performer is accepting money for a performance then it is a public performance".

I queried this pointing out that Clause 188 defines premises as "any place" and asking why therefore if I charge for a ceilidh (public performance) at a wedding in a private marquee on private land (any place) I am not attracting the need for a licence.

The reply came as follows:

   I understand why there is some misunderstanding over the sentence you quote from the letter that Dr Howells sent to Helen Jackson. In isolation it does appear that any case where a performer is paid counts as a public performance. I think that it is clear from the letter as a whole that this is not what is meant.

So "words clearly do not mean what they say they mean" number 1.

The second occasion was after the Radio One broadcast when I asked why Howells said that he had not received advice that wide screen TV was not dangerous when he clearly had received such advice from ACPO.

This time the reply was:

My interpretation is that in the sentence you have highlighted Dr Howells was referring to the two in bar rule, not to television. My press colleagues here have confirmed this.

I haven't yet made sense of that one but it counts as number two.

I have asked him to repeat the phrase "dancing for fun....." to make sure I understood it properly pointing out the logic that if "dancing for fun....." is not to be licensed then clearly singing and playing for fun will not need licensing either, and also pointing out that since it is what the Minister said on the Mike Harding Show last July then he will have no difficulty reassuring me that it is correct as written.

I reckon that this will be "Not what I meant" number 3 is coming up!!

Incidentally the DCMS automated reply says:

"Please note this is receiving attention. If your correspondance requires a response the DCMS aims to reply within 18 working days".

Dave

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 06:34 PM

How'd he reckon a competition where the performers are dancing for the fun of it, but the winner might get a prize? These people don't have a clue.

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 07:26 PM

For Irish dancing at the amateur level, the prize is often a medal. Do these count as profit? (After all, you could probably sell 'em back to the organisers for 50p or so for next year!)

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 07:39 PM

Keep them coming..............and write to Tessa..........

(Punch and Judy seems like a good one)

Dave

Subject: RE: Tessa Jowell and emails
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:47 AM

Don't forget that 'championship' darts and pool competitions can take place in any church, without requiring a licence. What about dancing?

These churches are set to be very busy places. Can these unlicensed church concerts also have fireworks?