BS: American Presidential race 2024

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 09:38 AM

imo, usa establishment news   is right wing,
imo there will be little difference on miltary spending whichever of the two candidates is elected, both candidates have been funded by the armament industry

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 10:01 AM

Depressing thought. The mere concept "armaments industry" is a depressing thought.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 01:33 PM

There were presidential candidate interviews offered by CBS on its long running news and interview program 60 Minutes. Harris did an interview last night, but we have learned that when Trump was informed that they would be fact-checking during the interview he backed out.

If you try to watch that online, CBS is really fussy about ad blockers and some security software. I have one browser set for loading that site if I want to watch their stuff (I don't want my default browser set without the ad block and such.) This is the direct link to her interview.

The Democrats have lined up quite a range if big interviews this month, to get the most bang for the interview buck. Many people (myself included) have their absentee ballots and can mail them any time now until November 5. I'm mailing mine later today.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 03:20 PM

Won't play for me; I did see one bit of it where she was asked a sticky question and answered, with an honest gaze, a different question - a typical politician's trick. What do they think we are, dim?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 04:17 PM

Yes, I read the New York TImes piece about the Texas theocrat/Republicans, and it is indeed scary.

I have to concur with Thompson about the state of Time magazine;
I too am old enough to remember journalism of substance in it.
Now there must be a whole generation of readers who don't know better.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 11:32 PM

In his mad scramble to stay relevant and at the top of the news cycle, Trump's disinformation about FEMA and Helene rescue efforts have put a large federal agency in extra urgency mode to combat the lies he is telling.

‘The worst I have ever seen’: Disinformation chaos hammers FEMA
Conspiracies and rumors are hurting recovery and relief efforts, warned FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell.

They are having to double up FEMA field workers for their own safely, reducing the number of places the agency can go in any given day. Even if they split up and work opposite sides of the street, it reduces efficiency.

FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell said the swirl of false conspiracy theories around Hurricane Helene is dissuading survivors from seeking help and hurting morale among responders.

“It is absolutely the worst I have ever seen,” Criswell told reporters on a Tuesday morning call.

“It’s creating distrust in the federal government, but also the state government, and we have so many first responders that have been working to go out and help these communities,” she added.

The agency has long had a rumor control page to combat the kind of scams that often flourish after a disaster, she added. “I anticipated some of this, but not to the extent that we’re seeing.”

Many of the falsehoods can be traced back to Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and his supporters, who have baselessly accused federal responders of diverting disaster money to immigrants.

Biden had a few words aimed directly at Trump:

“Those who do it, do it to try to damage the administration,” Biden said at a hurricane briefing at the White House. “We can take care of ourselves, but it misleads people, it puts people in circumstances where they panic, where they really, really, really worry and think ‘we’re not being taken care of.’ ... It’s un-American, it really is; people are scared to death, people know their lives are at stake.”

At this point, the Harris campaign is running an ad with quotes from the five governors involved, four of them Republican, all saying that FEMA and the Biden administration have been attentive and helpful, deploying a lot of resources.

Trump is a hot mess. That's all there is to it. His advisors should give him a sharp slap upside the head, but instead they tell him exactly what he wants to hear and let him continue to do damage.

The New York Times apparently has been lax in calling out Trump because the current publisher, one of the "nepo babies" in the business world, couldn't get the Biden or Harris interviews he wanted. I subscribe, but I'm getting closer and closer to dropping them. (I have two friends who have gift subscriptions based upon my account or I'd have dropped them already.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 10:30 AM

Not optimistic, but hopeful. Well, hoping.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 11:17 AM

Harris made the rounds yesterday, evidently finishing her day on Stephen Colbert's show. There are interesting clips from it out there, including a "sharing a beer" moment (but Miller High Life?).

In an unrelated yet important story, in Portland, OR, they are changing their government. This proud liberal city is throwing out its entire government
After a tumultuous four years marked by violent protests and drug decriminalization, Portland is poised for big changes.

Four years later the city is still recovering in part from the Trump administration's approach to the George Floyd riots that happened everywhere, but were particularly virulent in Oregon. Changing the government to a "weak mayor" (though it sounds like that job description hasn't been fully fleshed out) and broader city council will be more representative. From the article, a note about how those Council seats are now chosen (more fairly):

The City Council race, meanwhile, is mayhem. Portland is switching from four at-large seats to twelve seats representing four districts. The dozens of candidates include Black Lives Matter leaders, nonprofit advocates, business owners and police officers.

And above all, they are instituting ranked choice voting. That is something we need to see a lot more of. It takes care of breaking ties and under 50% results (that typically lead to a runoff).

The federal government needs to pass a strong voting rights act; there was one in place but lawsuits that made it to the Supreme Court have resulted in the conservative majority slowly dismantling those rights, just like they got rid of Roe v. Wade. Once voting rights are enshrined a lot of other work can happen. (We also need to get rid of that odious Supreme Court allowing Citizens United to let businesses have free unlimited speech. Businesses should not have personhood, but that's the way it is now).

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 11:33 AM

Trumps assertion that the Democrats are responsible for the weather that has affected Florida is ridiculous

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 04:19 PM

".. asked a sticky question and answered, with an honest gaze, a different question..."

Yes, a common thing for almost all politicians. It's an evasive thing for some who simply have no information or would be embarrassed by an honest answer. Trump goes off in wild nonsense. In the debate Harris first clearly wanted to begin with a specific foundation and jumped to that. Later, she did answer most things in different contexts.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 05:39 PM

I see that the mad orange one is spinning a yarn about the current administration forcing people out of houses and offering a pittance in aid for hurricane damage. It is blatantly false and everyone knows that but sadly it is gaining him support amongst the hard of thinking. We have had our share of conmen (think Johnson and Farage) and those who fell for their lies but Trump and his followers are in a different league.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 06:56 PM

Today they broadcast a briefing for Biden and Harris with the answers coming from different agency heads, so everyone could see just what is being done. That's one way to make it clear that Trump was lying.

The hurricane is heading for Florida right now so campaigns will be probably low-key for a few days (interviews might continue, but rallys and such less-so). My guess, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 01:32 PM

I can't remember whether I have mentioned Prof Allan Lichtman before in this thread but here is an article about him. [Note: the article is confusing because it is dated October 10, 2024 but some of the comments further down are referring to the time when Joe Biden was still the Democrat candidate.]

Allan Lichtman Prediction for 2024 Presidential Election: October Surprise To Derail Harris’ Chance?

"Allan Lichtman, the historian who correctly predicted the outcome of 9 out of the 10 most recent presidential elections, predicts Kamala Harris will win the upcoming presidential election.

"The 13 Keys to the White House, developed by Distinguished Professor of History Allan J. Lichtman at American University, is an analytical framework for predicting the outcome of American presidential elections. Unlike polls and poll-based projections, this model focuses on the larger picture, the consequential events during a president’s term, instead of campaigning and rhetoric."

....

The beginning of the article refers to:

"Allan Lichtman’s recent YouTube video delves into new evidence regarding Donald Trump’s relationship with Vladimir Putin."

Further down Lichtman's 13 keys are listed and a graph shows his analysis of Harris v. Trump in relation to those keys.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 06:36 PM

After Trump backed out of the 60 Minutes interview he decided to try to turn it into an issue of another sort.

Vice President Kamala Harris’ “60 Minutes” interview may be “a major Campaign Finance Violation.” Politifact says FALSE.

After former President Donald Trump backed out of a "60 Minutes" interview — skipping a decades-long tradition of major party presidential candidates’ interviews with the network ahead of the general election — he called his Democratic opponent’s interview a "giant fake news scam."

Before Vice President Kamala Harris’ "60 minutes" interview aired, the show posted a video clip preview Oct. 6 on X. The CBS News show "Face the Nation" also shared the preview during its Oct. 6 broadcast.

In the clip, Harris answered a question about U.S.-Israel relations. The next day, when the full interview aired, it showed Harris giving a different answer to the same question.

"I’ve never seen this before, but the producers of 60 Minutes sliced and diced (‘cut and pasted’) Lyin’ Kamala’s answers to questions … all in an effort, possibly illegal as part of the ‘News Division,’ which must be licensed, to make her look ‘more Presidential,’ or a least, better," Trump posted Oct. 9 on Truth Social.

He continued, "It may also be a major Campaign Finance Violation."

PolitiFact contacted Trump’s campaign to clarify what campaign finance rule he was referring to, but spokesperson Karoline Leavitt did not answer that question. Instead, she called on CBS News to release the "full, unedited transcript" from Harris’ "60 Minutes" interview. "What do they, and Kamala, have to hide?" Leavitt said.

A media ethics expert told us it’s common for television broadcasts to select portions of a response from an interview, but that the network should publicly clarify its actions. And campaign finance experts said Trump’s claim about a rule violation is baseless.

There's a part of the interview transcribed there.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 05:33 AM

Interesting (to me, anyway) opinion piece in the Guardian about what's going on in the swing states.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 07:23 AM

Holy moly! Trump and disaster aid!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 09:44 AM

My mail-in ballot arrived today.
I recognized the Democratic, Green, and Republican candidates.
There were maybe three other parties and candidate pairs on the ballot,
of whom I know nothing, one of them was Libertarian.

I have a sinking feeling about this election.
I recall too well the euphoria, here at Mudcat, about the 2016 election
when certain members were so sure that we would elect a woman to the White House.
And how all those hopes and certainties were dashed.

I feel like I ought to brace myself for another Democratic Party defeat this year.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 10:41 AM

I share your sinking feeling, Keb. Too many Americans sucked in by tRump propaganda.

God Help America (and, by association, the rest of us).

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 10:50 AM

Yes.. the possibility of defeat exists... if Republicans manage to purge enough voter lists and get several swing states to rewrite their election laws to allow state legislatures to override vote totals.
   Harris will certainly win the national popular vote, probably by more than Hillary or Biden, but the *#@%&* electoral college has several times elected the candidate with fewer votes.
   I am still optimistic, but not sure how to approach the tension of election night.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 10:56 AM

Your link did not work for me, Thompson, so I Google Guardian, Trimp and swing states to find this one

Is that it?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 11:16 AM

That's the topic, Dave (I fixed the original link after a search).

This is the time of year when you have to turn off the news, stop reading the polls, pull up your socks, and keep focused on the goal - putting Harris into office to spare us the disaster of another Trump term.

There are many people who never are reached in polls. Polls talk to a few hundred or thousand people at the most. They are horribly expensive to conduct if they are true polls. Many people don't have house phones listed in a phone book who will never be contacted. They miss many large under-represented demographics. (In addition to the scant coverage of traditional polls, there are things called "push polls" that are seemingly normal questions until they get to the candidate they support and then they ask a series of negative questions about the opposition and put them in the "do you hate when. . . " format to make their point and hopefully get your vote. I encountered one of those a couple of weeks ago and promptly ended the "poll" and blocked the site.)

Hillary blew it in 2016 by pulling her people back from Wisconsin and/or possibly Michigan where they thought they could make a difference. Harris will not make that mistake, plus she is wading deep into areas that should support her if she can convince them that their vote counts. And it is the down-ballot stuff this time - without the house and senate we'll still have gridlock in many ways.

IGNORE THE POLLS.

At this point they do far more harm than good.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 12:30 PM

Dave the Gnome, this is my link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/13/trump-disaster-funding-warning

The headline is

‘Vengeful’ Trump withheld disaster aid and will do so again, ex-officials warn

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 12:55 PM

This reel from FB - on a larger scale.

The GOP is trying to distract voters into the nonsense of going out and talking to neighbors to change minds when what we really need to do is make sure the GOP doesn't get away with dirty tricks and pulling registered voters off of roles.

In this video instance, abortion is the topic, but in various other venues the topic might be Israel/Gaza or The Economy or Climate Change - stop trying to change minds right now - instead, stop the GOP from blocking people from voting. Show their dirty tricks for what they are, don't fall for them. Trump still has Roger Stone working for him.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 03:38 PM

re: Polls

Polls used to be calls to land line phones. Now people use mainly portable smart phones, and often ignore calls they don't want to take.
I'm sure the news media feels they must feed us polling data, even if, as SRS notes, it is not reliable.
There are many many new young voters who tend Democratic and an amazing number of well-known Republicans who are endorsing Kamala.
Every day, tRump says something more outrageous than before and offends people, cultures, companies, cities, states and his own former staff.
   I still won't really relax until it's all done.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 06:03 PM

This makes the third time someone with weapons has been close to 45. This one seems to have been some kind of goof - he was released on $5,000 bail. Will Trump try to use it to his advantage?

Meanwhile, violence continues to be how Trump deals with people he dislikes, basically anyone who disagrees with him.

COACHELLA, Calif. (AP) — Former President Donald Trump called for a protester at one of his rallies to “go back home to Mommy” to “get the hell knocked out of her,” his latest instance of using violent language when confronted by demonstrators.

The protester was ejected from Trump’s Saturday evening rally in Coachella, California. As the crowd jeered her, Trump said “Back home to Mommy. She goes back home to Mommy.”

Trump continued, imitating the imagined mother: “‘Was that you, darling?’ And she gets the hell knocked out of her.”

“Her mother’s a big fan of ours,” the former president finished before returning to his speech. “Her mother, her father.”

Meanwhile, Harris has released her medical records and this will certainly taunt Trump who never has been truthful about his health (including the COVID he had).

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 06:22 PM

I'm not surprised that he is being targeted by shooters. I just hope he is safe for the next month so that the election can progress as planned. If he is shot he becomes a martyr in the eyes of some people and that could increase his voter turnout. If he is shot and killed, the JD Vance alternative is almost as bad as Trump. So may God keep him safe for the next month, long enough to hopefully lose the election and face the music of his legal woes without a chance of pardoning himself.

Also on the subject of death (sorry! but...) I've been wondering why the Democrat strategists are not reminding voters of Trump's role in the Jan 6 Capitol riots more often, and also of the abysmal record of deaths in the U.S. due to COVID, mostly due to Trump's denial of its seriousness, and denial of the need to vaccinate and take other precautions like social distancing, hand sanitisation, mask-wearing etc.

And, is Kamala Harris still pushing the line about knowing Trump's type?

Apart from that she seems to be pushing some of her pro-active policies more than she was initially.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 06:57 PM

The question of the January 6 riots has come up and the talking heads who examine the Harris campaign seem to feel other issues, such as restoring abortion rights and forward movement for Americans trying to buy new homes and other repairs to the economy are critical to discuss. There is no point in re-litigating Trump on January 6, the Congressional hearings did a good job of that and until the Supreme Court stops blocking the court hearings and eventual trials, she would be saying "alleged" all of the time.

Personally, I think a whole bunch of pissed off women of all ages are going to put this across the finish line for Harris. Women who never show up in polls.

I mailed in my ballot last week.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 07:04 PM

I'm betting on the whole heap of pissed off women, too. Fingers and toes so fully crossed that I'll need a crow bar to straighten them out again. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 01:00 AM

Al-Jazeera: Harris "slipping" against Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 01:44 AM

That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, Thommo.

Very sadly, I think some of the KH supporters here may be underestimating the gullibility and, yes, stupidity of a lot of American voters who simply fall for the Trumpian BS. Hopefully, the ‘pissed-off women’ will outnumber the the gullible idiots, but then there’s still the vagaries of that antiquated, outdated ‘Electoral College’ poll-defeating system to overcome.

Despite being a Harris fan, if I was a betting man (I’m not), I’d have a tenner on tRump, whilst hoping like hell I would lose my money.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 02:02 AM

My tenner would join yours.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 06:59 PM

Stop reading the polls. They'll just depress you. Make sure everyone gets out to vote who can vote. Al-Jazeera isn't what I would consider an authoritative source on US politics.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 01:11 PM

This is at the County level in Georgia, but it addresses the attempt of Trump supporters to suggest that election workers can refuse to certify election results. No, they can't do that.

Local Officials Cannot Refuse to Certify Election Results, Georgia Judge Rules
The ruling cuts at the heart of a key argument made by right-wing activists since the 2020 election, when Donald Trump sought to disrupt the certification process as part of his bid to subvert the results.

But Judge Robert C.I. McBurney ruled on Monday evening that the effort to wrest control of certification was unconstitutional and against state law, and that law enforcement and the courts remained the proper venue for any investigations, challenges or concerns about the integrity of an election.

“If election superintendents were, as Plaintiff urges, free to play investigator, prosecutor, jury, and judge and so — because of a unilateral determination of error or fraud — refuse to certify election results, Georgia voters would be silenced,” Judge McBurney wrote. “Our Constitution and our Election Code do not allow for that to happen.” . . . .“Superintendents (and the staff to whom they may delegate some of these responsibilities) are rule-writers, personnel trainers and managers, logisticians, marketers, and accountants. Much of what they do is left to their broad, reasoned discretion,” he wrote. “But not everything — some things an election superintendent must do, either in a certain way or by a certain time, with no discretion to do otherwise. Certification is one of those things.”

Of course there are a dozen courts stacked up above the County judge in Georgia, so be prepared to see the Trump folks trot out the Rolodex of judges and courts to start the appeals process. They have three weeks in which to waste their money.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Oct 24 - 04:57 AM

Anything can happen in the next few weeks, if you are going to bet dont bet on that

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Oct 24 - 08:55 AM

20 days...

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Oct 24 - 05:42 PM

The Dems and the liberal news hosts are carefully not dwelling on Kamala's good reviews and leads, but keep insisting "It's a dead heat!" so people won't get complacent. Maybe she'll get even better results than Biden.
I'd love to see Trump lose by a lot!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 24 - 06:24 PM

Today on MSNBC's Dateline: White House Nicolle Wallace made an impassioned and coherent statement about how every vote counts, because of so many connected races and the House and Senate needing the Democratic majority to do a lot of heavy lifting right away. What she said is what Harris could use in explaining in future talk to audiences why every vote does count.

The polls are all over the place. But as I've said before, they aren't taking into account a whole lot of pissed off women of all ages and races.

Ignore the polls. Make sure you vote, and encourage everyone around you to vote. And thank your lucky stars that Bob Woodward is as thorough as he is and writes as quickly as he does and his publisher is on board with the timing of his book War, within a month of the election, what many of us hope is a final nail in Trump's political coffin. The idea that Trump would speak to Woodward so often over all of these years shows yet again how vain Trump is, wanting the attention of a revered and storied political author, yet somehow feeling untouchable by the effects of the publication of the book.

Chyron on MSNBC just now: Woodward says "Trump worse than Nixon."

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 04:52 AM

More incoherent ramblings in Azureasia (Arizona) I see. What never fails to amaze me is how many people still seem to love him. Is idiocy a symptom of long term Covid?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 06:20 AM

Dave, it’s the same phenomenon as the large number of people in the UK I see wishing for Johnson back as the Tory leader, claiming he was ‘the best PM we’ve ever had’, and similar drivel. Here in the Backwoods we have a word for those people - ‘Fuck-wits’.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 10:11 AM

Dave the Gnome... I'm not sure how many people actually love him!
They just love **Trumpism**. He won on immigration, and many of those idiots would vote for Beelzebub if they thought he would keep out most immigrants.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 11:46 AM

It’s a delicious irony that the vast majority of Americans are themselves immigrants or descendants of immigrants. It’s almost as ironic as the Israeli regime’s adoption of the behaviour of the 1930s German regime who abused and ethnically-cleansed Jews from much of Europe - the abused turned abusers.

In both cases, you really could NOT make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 12:07 PM

Harris was interviewed on FOX yesterday and gave that host a lot of pushback when he tried to take cheap shots.

Below are clips from the New York Times about the interview:

Vice President Kamala Harris sat for the most adversarial interview of her campaign on Wednesday, sparring with the Fox News anchor Bret Baier over the border, President Biden’s mental fitness and whether former President Donald J. Trump is a threat to American democracy.

For a Democratic presidential candidate, appearing on Fox News is about as close as going into the lion’s den as it gets. On Wednesday, the lion was Mr. Baier, who repeatedly interrupted the vice president and tried to talk over her.

But Ms. Harris — giving her first interview on Fox News in an attempt to reach millions of voters, especially conservative-leaning women, who have probably not heard much of her message — largely steered the conversation in her preferred direction.

Here are six takeaways from the interview.

1. She broke with Biden (a little).

Ms. Harris has engaged in an awkward dance with her boss, walking a line between being deferential to their administration’s accomplishments while trying to assert her own authority. Her answer on Wednesday was more rhetorical than substantive, but Mr. Biden may have given her the green light to be more aggressive going forward.

“Every president has to cut their own path. That’s what I did,” he said in a speech on Tuesday. “I was loyal to Barack Obama, but I cut my own path as president. That’s what Kamala’s going to do. She’s been loyal so far, but she’ll cut her own path.”

And when Mr. Baier slyly asked her when she had first noticed that “President Biden’s mental faculties appeared diminished,” she gave little ground, saying Mr. Biden was more than capable of leading the nation — unlike Mr. Trump, whom she called “unfit,” “unstable” and “dangerous.”

2. An aggressive Bret Baier pushed right-wing arguments.
From the outset, Mr. Baier seemed determined to knock Ms. Harris off her talking points — often by echoing those of Mr. Trump.

It took him less than 20 seconds to interrupt her for the first time. Ms. Harris, who is known as an effective practitioner of the filibuster, had hardly even begun to answer his opening question. That pattern continued for much of the interview.

Many of Mr. Baier’s questions seemed drawn from Mr. Trump’s own arguments. The Fox News anchor invoked the names of young women whom Mr. Trump frequently points to at his rallies as victims of undocumented immigrants and who are often cited on Fox programming. In fact, nearly half of the 26-minute interview was devoted to immigration and border security, issues seen as among Ms. Harris’s biggest weaknesses with undecided voters. Mr. Baier also suggested she was soft on Iran.

3. For Harris, the interview was largely meant to appeal to women …

4. … and those women saw the vice president being interrupted repeatedly.

During this portion and others, the viewers Ms. Harris and her campaign are trying to appeal to also saw Mr. Baier repeatedly interrupt her as she tried to answer his questions.

The back-and-forth recalled how Matt Lauer talked over Hillary Clinton during a televised NBC News forum in 2016. Mr. Lauer was roundly criticized for being sexist.

“You have to let me finish, please,” Ms. Harris said at one point during the exchange on immigration. “I’m in the middle of responding to the point you’re raising, and I’d like to finish.”

As Mr. Baier’s interview with Ms. Harris progressed on Wednesday, he seemed more willing to let her have her say.

“We’re talking over each other,” he said shortly before it ended, though he had been doing so himself throughout their encounter. “I apologize.”

5. The interview showed the limits of her outreach to Republicans.
Ms. Harris frequently made points that Fox News viewers don’t often hear in their normal programming, saying that Mr. Trump was unfit to serve and pointing out the number of former officials in his administration who support her candidacy.

But the interview was a reminder that even as she talks in speeches about establishing a cross-party dialogue — and campaigns with Republicans like former Representatives Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger — the vast majority of the Republican Party and its media ecosystem view her with skepticism bordering on contempt and stand firmly behind their chosen candidate.

6. Harris flipped a Trump transgender attack back on him.
Mr. Trump has tried to hammer Ms. Harris over her past support for prisoners receiving gender transition care. The Trump ad that Mr. Baier played for Ms. Harris — which many Republicans see as one of the former president’s most effective — said that she was in favor of “taxpayer-funded sex changes for prisoners” and “illegal aliens.”

Ms. Harris quickly sought to turn the tables.

“I will follow the law, and it’s a law that Donald Trump actually followed,” she said with a wide smile, pointing out that federal prison officials under Mr. Trump provided an array of gender-affirming treatments, including hormone therapy, for a small group of inmates who requested it during his term in office.

Transgender inmates are among the most vulnerable people in federal prisons, and have received significant protections from the courts.

“Frankly, that ad from the Trump campaign is a little bit of like throwing stones when you’re living in a glass house,” Ms. Harris said.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 07:16 PM

I listened to a conversation between historians Heather Cox Richardson and Joanne Freeman about feelings about the election today. They concur that the shifting moods happen (fearful of the outcome buoyed with occasional feelings of euphoria about Harris winning).

Apparently a lot of the "polls" we're hearing cited these days are bogus, they fast things promoted by the GOP and inserted into newsfeeds or into poll result sites to make it look like Trump is ahead. There were 30 of these added recently that had that effect. All of this, they note, is more attempts to scare voters out of participation.

Every vote counts. Ignore the polls.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 04:56 AM

As regards Foreign policies what are you voting for?
I agree there is a difference in Domestic policies

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 07:00 AM

Policies be damned, I voted against a toxic predator who's only real policies are to stay out of jail, line his pockets and play a lot of golf.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 07:31 AM

Well said, Gilly!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 08:53 AM

Indeed, Gillymor. He never did want to be President. He was, I believe, doing it mostly for his ego. I suspect that he decided to run after Obama mad fun of him at the correspondent's dinner. When he actually won, he tried to use the office to, as you say, line his pockets.
   He refused to read briefing papers and ignored the decision making aspects of the office as much as possible.
   This time he IS running to avoid jail. If he were to actually win again, there would likely be more impeachments!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 09:04 AM

IN 2016, a BS thread at the time compared Trump to Caligula.
Reading about his erratic public behavior, it sounds more apt than ever.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 11:45 PM

The dancing around at a "Town Hall" meeting for 40 minutes because he didn't want to answer any more questions is the most bizarre thing that has ever happened in presidential politics. You'd think that would put PAID to Trump's presidential bid.

You'd think.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Oct 24 - 04:41 AM

Waes he dancing to "puppet on a string"