how do I know when strings are worn out?

Subject: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:24 PM

I play guitar with nylon strings and fretted dulcimer with steel strings. I'm content to leave the strings on for months. But I wonder if the sound is deteriorating and I'm just getting used to it as time passes.

Can anybody tell me what to listen for so as to know when strings need changins?

I already know that corrosion is bad and that the strings should stay in tune for a reasonably long time.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:33 PM

Have confidence - if it sounds okay to you - its probably okay!

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Waddon Pete
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:38 PM

Good advice....I'd add that the time to change them is when they no longer stay in tune!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: chrispin
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:39 PM

I'm not at all familiar with the dulcimer but on the guitar the wound bass strings start to suffer particularly with the build up of muck in the coils which tends to deaden the sound - if you "think" maybe you need new strings then you will most certainly notice a great difference when you put them on.

Do you use Fastfret before and after you play to clean the strings? It can slow the build up of grease and grime from your fingers and helps to keep them smooth and free running - although I have noticed a tendency to "squeak" if I use too much - my fingers that is!

When I played nylon strings after a while I'd notice the treble strings looking tagged and worn particularly on certain frequently used frets. The D string would always go first just above the 2nd fret - the wound coil would break first and occasionally leave a piece of wire buzzing on the string...

Basically - if in doubt change your strings! I enjoy new strings most after about a week of settling in. then they are great for about two to three weeks and then start to deteriorate - yes, tuning goes, and loss of clarity of tone.

...and I would highly recommend D'Addario for nylon or steel strings - they are the business...

Someone else will have to advise you regarding the dulcimer!

Chris

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:27 PM

You will hear a "pinging" sound when they are worn out, and they will seperate into two or more parts.
This has the technical term "breaking" :-)

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:44 PM

I play a nylon string classic guitar. I can ALWAYS tell when it's time to change strings because my voice starts to sing flat! bob

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:23 PM

Dead Horse - Snap!



Boing! Said Zebidee!

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 10:09 PM

I find that using an Intellitouch tuner , the tuner picks up harmonics rather than the root when the strings are getting past their sell by date

Cant help with Nylon , though

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 10:58 PM

When YOU feel uncomfortable with the tone

DON'T cheap!!!

If YOU think they are bad...they ARE.

Replace The Strings!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

guilty as charged....a major (actually minor) shift in the piano has been grinding on the nerves since Christmas.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:58 PM

Never thought I'd agree with Gargoyle. The lower strings will go dead fairly quickly. I'd have to say change them every three to four weeks if I wanted the instrument to inspire me. Two weeks if I'm gigging with the instrument.
It's not like cats are an endangered species, you know.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:33 AM

Okay, thanks for all the tips.

I agree about the D'Addario strings. I like them.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:33 AM

It's a personal thing. I do not like the sound of new steel strings and can't wait for them to be played in. I prefer the tone quality of slightly worn strings without the brashness of newness. I know they're worn out when the harmonics are off or become deader (harder work to play), or when roll-ons need extra effort. Don't know if this would apply to the dulcimer.

New nylon strings are also a pain because they take a few days to settle. I sometimes find with nylons that the wound strings start to unravel slightly and buzz (never happens with wound steel) and so it's time to change. I find nylons keep their tone greatly longer than steel.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:20 AM

If you want to brighten up oldish strings, instead of changing them, just loosen them off one by one and stretch them a little, then retune.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 11:03 AM

"I find nylons keep their tone greatly longer than steel."

That's good to know. Thanks.

My dulcimer has steel strings. I notice that when I check the high strings with my Korg tuner, the needle sways quite a bit from sharp to flat and back. I'm going to change strings and compare.

For me, the problem with changing strings is not the money, it's the time it takes. Changing strings is a chore for me, right in the same category as cleaning the cat box and going to the dentist.

When I change mylon strings, I leave the guitar on the dining room table for several days, re-tuning it every time I can. It does take a few days to settle.

To change the topic from problems to pleasures, today I got the idea of playing Mouret's Rondeau (the theme from Masterpiece Theatre) on the dulcimer. It works well. Actually, it's so easy it almost plays itself.

I wonder if there was another section to that piece, because a rondeau is usually ABACA (or even more complicated) and the theme is merely ABA.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: skipy
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:26 PM

Your puppet can't move it's arms or legs!
Skipy

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 07:30 PM

okayeee...

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:03 PM

"how do I know when strings are worn out?"

Well as far as G-strings are concerned, there will be lots of flesh visible... these are normally intended to be worn inside, painful though that sounds.




""I find nylons keep their tone greatly longer than steel." "

Who wears steel stockings?

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:11 PM

There's the old trick of boiling wound strings to clean them and freshen them. Can't say I've ever noticed any improvement when I've tried it. Anyone else found it helps?

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Bee
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:20 PM

I wipe my steel strings down with vinegar once in a while - seems to frehen them a little.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Bee
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:20 PM

That word would be 'freshen'....

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: DADGBE
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:26 PM

Strings age due to two different and simultaneous processes. First and most obvious - the finger debris that gets ground into the windings of wound strings.

Secondly, strings vibrate most accurately when they're as close to perfectly round as possible. Nylon bass strings are wound with very soft metal on a core of bundled fine fibers of silk, nylon or other synthetics. As these strings get repetedly pressed into the frets, they quickly get little flattened areas which eventually ruin their ability to play in tune. At that point the only recourse is to change them.

One set of treble monofilament nylon strings usually will outlast 2 - 3 sets of basses.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:30 PM

I'll refresh this thread every two or three weeks. That'll remind you!

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Songster Bob
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 12:20 AM

New strings tune more easily and sound "in tune," whilst old strings don't sound right, even when the electronic doodad says they're OK. That's 'cause the harmonics no longer match the fundamentals. Steel strings often sound pretty dead when old, too, though classical strings are less prone to this.

If you don't like the brash, John-Denver-new-strings-for-every-take-at-the-recording-studio sound of new strings, I'd try John Pearse strings, which, to my ear, don't have that effect, but keep their new-broke-in sound a long time. Except for Elixirs, Pearse's strings are the longest-lasting bronze strings I've ever used, and I recommend 'em.


Bob

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 03:47 AM

I find it seems to coincide with the need to go to Hobgoblin and try out lots of instruments.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM

Thanks, now I understand why people are always telling me to wipe the strings. I always do, for a while.

It's also good to know how strings wear out. I didn't know that.

I've replaced the strings on my dulcimer with a new kind - Black Beauties by Folk Craft. I really like them. They have only been on an for hour, yet the A strings don't wobble a bit on the tuner.

Les, I know what you mean about using strings as an excuse to hit the music stores.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:29 AM

leeneia : "My dulcimer has steel strings. I notice that when I check the high strings with my Korg tuner, the needle sways quite a bit from sharp to flat and back. I'm going to change strings and compare." This could be due to insufficient tension on the strings. I am not a dulcimer player, but I assume all stringed instruments would have the same problem. When my steel strung guitar or nylon strung guitar or lute strings begin to sway in pitch like that I always check the pitch of the whole instrument. Recently I did this on the lute and found that, while it was in tune with itself, because I had tuned it for so long to *itself* and not to a tuner, the whole instrument was down one whole tone. I hadn't noticed, I think, because there isn't much tension on lute strings, anyway. From the *sound* of the dulcimer - again, me not being a player - I can imagine a similar scenario (but I might be talking rubbish here!)

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Fidjit
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:39 AM

Savarez last longer than D'Addario strings. Depends also if you're playing in first positions all the time. Then they will go quicker.

Usually the "D" string gets worn first and the "B" (or "H" if you're that way inclined) will sound flat. Also if the guitar stays in tune more when you pick it up. Less tuning to do but the strings are on their way out.

I change mine about every 4 - 5 weeks, but I use in almost every day.

Chas

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 01:03 AM

leeneia: If you're going to town today, buy some strings and have them on by next weekend. It's time!
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:46 AM

They are on already. I am trying the Black Beauty strings from Folk Roots.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:16 AM

You're away ahead of me!

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:34 AM

When used acoustically it's been my experience the needle and/or indicator light wobble back and forth between slightly flat and slightly sharp. Alot of times I'd frustratd and just get it 'in the ballpark'. Especially my mandolin. When doing a session once the engineer's assistant handed me a little clip-on mic they'd gotten from Musician's Friend for $5.oo. It was like the parting of the red sea. It's got an 'alligator clip' w/pads and a 1/4" 6ft cord attached. Attach it to your bridge, tune, then take it off. What I've also done is this: take any mic w/a 1/4" cord and plug it into the input jack on the tuner. Use the mic close to your instrument. Not nearly as much 'wobble'. A little off topic, but as I play(not very well) dulcimer, also I thought you'd benefit from these suggestions. I purchased two of the clip-on mics in w/an order for some strings, stands, etc.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:27 AM

A little more off topic: I took the little transducer (the sucker type) that comes with some electronic tuners and glued it to the inside of my "Bakelite" banjo head. It works as a pick-up. Pretty smart, eh?
Come on! Tell me I'm pretty smart.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:37 AM

Hello Jim,

Wow...that's pretty smart!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:37 AM

Red stuff comes out of the top of your fingers

tee hee

sal

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:42 PM

Oh thanks Pete. You didn't have to say that.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:59 PM

...credit where credit's due, Jim! ;0)

My only concern is what you will do with the rest of the tuner!

Incidentally, I noted the good word for D'Addario higher up the thread.   I tried their nylon strings on my "playing at home" guitar and found that the 4th, 5th and 6th unravelled...I have now got a mongrel set of basses picked up as excuses to snoop in new music shops...one Augustine, one Monopole and one "house" string with no name!

I have to say they sound just as good! Usually I use La Bella high tension or Savarez Red Card.

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

All kinds for all sorts. I like vanilla with raspberry syrup.
Enjoy the string searching.
Jim

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:20 PM

Pete: In most cases the pick-up is just an extension to the tuner. Many tuners come with the connection for a pick-up or instrument line but no pick-up. Using the pick-up as I did is a cheap way to do something as long as sound quality doesn't suffer for it.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Gulliver
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:54 PM

I know several people who haven't replaced their guitar strings (nylon) for years and still continue to play (at parties, etc).

When I was a penniless student I used to boil the (steel) guitar strings for about twenty minutes if they were sounding flat and I had a gig coming up. This brightened up the tone and they sounded almost like new again for about 2 days.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 03:55 PM

well how often do you play ?
change as often you can , strings cost some money but
it will pay off.

All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,The Dude
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 06:47 PM

I've always had the problem with my strings, after a week or two, they just go dead. The tone will have some major distortions in the mid range, it'll start sounding like a fart. The highs just become more quiet as the strings get old. The lows, well even they become quieter as the strings age, not as fast as the high range of the sound. and distort as well.. I've messed around with my EQ's a lot as the age of the strings increases, to get a similar sound. The other thing I noticed, when the strings get old, they make your timing become more difficult. You strike the string, and they feel like they take just a hair longer to reset back to where you struck the string the previous time. I've had many attempts to try to prolong the life of my strings. I tried boiling the wound strings. It sort of works but not really. The tricks I've learned to get a few extra days out of the strings is: 1. Wash your fucking hands before even touching the guitar. That'll get rid of some of dirt and oil on your hands. Not to mention it's good hygiene. 2. Wipe down the strings before and after you play. That'll get some of the dirt and oil on the strings. And yes if they're sitting around they are still accumulating dirt. 3. Use some sort of cleaner on the guitar when you change strings. Especially get the fretboard clean. I use regular pledge, works just as good if not better than those "guitar cleaners" they sell at the music shops and it costs less too. 4. Get thicker gauge strings. It'll take you like maybe a few weeks for your hands to get strong enough to handle the heavier gauges, and they make a difference. And I read that somebody is using vinegar to clean their strings. I don't think that's such a great idea, it's a strong acid and I think it'd be possible for that to damage the guitar. On some cheap POS Washburn dreadnought I had, I was too cheap to change the strings regularly for such a crap guitar. I came up with the idea to use some brass polish for the bronze strings. It really did work, the strings felt newer and sounded bright again. But it also caused some fine abrasive scratches on the fingerboard. But I guess if you can figure a way of using that polish on the strings and then getting it off the strings without it making contact with the fingerboard, that might be an option. I wouldn't recommend it on anything valuable though.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 07:18 PM

My god some people have complicated lives.......!

Buy strings in bulk - 2 dozen at a time on the internet.

if you get them from stringthis.com in Dallas they are very cheap or Bob passante in New Jersey.

stop worrying - change strings when you want.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 10:56 AM

"stop worrying - change strings when you want."

If I had my druthers, that would be every five years.

Thanks, drummer, for the names of the sources of bulk strings. I'll look at that.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:35 AM

*Refreshing this thread so I can trace it.*

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:36 AM

Trace it to where?

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 01:29 AM

To my Mudcat Personal Page, in the "Tracer" section.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 03:45 AM

Deckman, I also find that when my strings are worn out I start to sing off key.   I change them then, or every couple years -- whichever comes first.

;-D

Genie

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 03:46 AM

when they break

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,THE ONE
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 05:57 AM

I HAD SOME ON FOR 8 YEARS CHANGED THEM AND WISHED IHAD NOT ICAN NEVER CAPTURE THAT GREAT SOUND I HAD BO OO BO OO PIP

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:52 PM

Play banjo and dulcimer.

I used to change strings kind of regularly because I thought I was supposed to.

Had a friend who changed guitar strings every week. Honest.

Then something happened.
Met a person who collected old strings so he could reuse them when his strings broke.
He said he preferred the sound.

Caused me to listen and think for myself.

I realized that new strings sound new for a rather short time. Then they sound just the the strings they replaced.

Decided it wasn't worth the time, money, and energy to change strings often enough to keep that "new" sound.

Now I change a string when it breaks.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 03:35 PM

Years ago, when I played long hours outdoors for limited money (as a streetsinger), I played until I broke a string, then replaced the broken string with a used one until I bought a new set. Soon (the next day, usually), I'd replace the whole set, saving the five unbroken strings for the next emergency.

Since the first string to break could be any of the three or four highest-pitched stings, this system usually worked. (If it was always the same string that broke, of course, I'd never have the necessary used-string replacement.)

I'm still in the habit of keeping 10-12 old strings in my guitar case, even though I no longer play such long hours ~ and nowadays play much less often in public, and then strictly indoors and through a microphone. I now usually change strings when I notice a deterioration in sound, and don't wait until one breaks. I don't mark the calendar and don't know how often the mood strikes me to update the strings, and I certainly don't know how often I "should" change them. I do know that my involvement in playing ebbs and flows as other aspects of my life demand more and less attention, and the frequency of my string-changing follows suit.

A few weeks ago, I actually broke a string for the first time in years: I had a used replacement string for immediate use, and when I bought a new full set later that day and put 'em on, I noticed a remarkable improvement in tone. I had left the previous set in place for much too long, thanks to more-complicated-then-usual developments in "real" life.

I use medium-weight phosphor bronze strings ~ 13s ~ on my all-acoustic guitar, and use a plastic thumbpick and two steel fingerpicks. As a street performer, I always whaled on the guitar pretty hard with those picks, which undoubtedly led to fairly frequent string breakage. I even tried heavy-weight strings once in a while to prolong string life, but found the mediums preferable for tone and even for volume.

More recently, I still use the picks for performance, although I'm sure that my touch has become quite a bit lighter. At home, I'll fingerpick barehanded sometimes (especially when I'm supposed to be relatively quiet, like after bedtime) and use the picks maybe half the time or less. I'm sure this allows my strings not only to remain intact longer than in my busking days, but to retain their tonal qualities a bit longer, too.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 03:42 PM

A good test is to lend them to another guitarist, and if he says - Hey, do you EVER change these f---ing strings?

It could time to change them.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 04:12 PM

If a jerk talked to me like that, I'd change the strings AND the friend.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 04:16 PM

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Russ and Poppagator.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Songster Bob
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:45 AM

A trick I saw a guitarist use to stretch newly-installed strings seemed odd at the time, but makes sense. In general, you usually tug on a new string after it's tuned to pitch, then tune again and maybe tug again.

Well, he did it by suspending the guitar on the string (grab the string near the sound-hole and hoist the guitar from your lap, where you've had it whilst you changed strings). The result is that every tug has the same value, since the weight of the guitar is what 'drives' the tug. No chance (or little chance, anyway) of tugging one or two strings harder than the others. Just grab and lift. Tune, grab, lift, tune, grab, lift, and in a couple of rounds of this, the string is pre-stretched to the same value as all the others.

I would not have thought of this if I hadn't seen it, but it actually makes sense. It even works for classical strings, though they take a few more rounds of tune and tug than do steel strings, and usually have to be tune/tugged a couple times a day for the first two days of their life on your guitar.

Funny what you learn when you watch others, eh?


Bob

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:10 AM

Russ, I agree that the new strings don't keep sounding new for long, and as long as I can tune the strings, I'm really OK with keeping the old ones on.

But I hate having to change a string during a performance, and I can't count on my roadies to hand me another, tuned guitar when a string breaks.   (That may have something to do with the fact that I can't afford any roadies.) So if I have an important gig coming up and I haven't changed my strings in a few months, I may change the strings (keeping the old ones as back up) just to be on the safe side.

Yes, I've had a new string break shortly after I put it on, but it doesn't happen often.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:04 AM

Bob: That's an old Nylon String trick and one that I use quite often on steel strings. It really makes little sense to unwind the strings if you don't have to.
Leeneia: Time to change your strings again.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: goatfell
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:54 AM

I have a classical guitar and I haven't changed the srtings in five years, mind you I only play when I'm in the house, I have another guitar and I changed the string more often because I play that in piblic.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:47 PM

Genie,

Good point.

If I were a performer I'd do a lot of things differently.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 04:22 AM

Leenia: Time to change the strings again.
Maybe start doing it when you change the clocks an smoke alarm batteries.
Until spring.
Jim

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:31 AM

Ordinary Steels/ bronze/ phosphor-bronze about every 3 weeks - but if you have bad "acid finger" every week or every gig.

Elixirs - about every 3 months - really works, saves money and hassle, and I like the sound too. I prefer nanoweb to polyweb (thinner condom).

If you want to clean strings on the guitar, and don't want to use a proper string-cleaner use a liquid degreaser. Do not use a polich it will leave unwanted deposits. Do not use an abrasive like a cream cleanser, it will leave grit in the windings. The long obsoleted Ajax ammonia plus liquid was good, my late wife used to use it in the 70s. Mr Muscle kitchen or bathroom or window would probably be good.

To protect the guitar, flatten supermarket carrier bags and thread them between the strings and the fingerboard/body. The bits of the strings by the body will not be so claggy because they don't get grease squidged onto them by fretting fingers.

UK chaps, if buying strings in bulk from USA - if they really come from USA and the customs price is over £ (not $) 30, you will (probably but not always) get hit for VAT and the fee that the post office charges for collecting it. The customs price in theory includes the shipping but often shippers do not include that.

Some US sellers used to despatch from the Channel Islands or a UK depot to avoid the VAT problem. How they got the strings to there without getting taxed on the way in I don't know.

I really think that Elixirs and changing at three months is probably cheaper than $2 string sets changed every 14 days, and is a lot less hassle, and some of those $2 string sets are truly horrid to listen to - thin and tizzy.

There are some other coated strings out there now. I'm going to try them next change. I saw some pretty coated multicolours on ebay the other day. I have tried the D'Addario coateds and they went dead for me just as fast as uncoateds. I have tried Newtones, and they suit some guitars better than others and mine seemed to be among those they didn't suit. They seem to last longer than ordinary strings but less long than Elixirs, for me, and they are quite reasonably priced.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM

if you slacken the strings,and get a cloth and rub hard the friction takes off a lot of the grunge.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:45 AM

Another guitarist b***hing about your strings IS a good indicator. However I recently lent a guitar of mine to someone during a song circle , who chose that moment to chide me, to my chagrin, within the entire circle about the state of my strings.   Words failed me, but right now, something about not looking a gift horse in the mouth or biting the hand,etc. or such is my 20/20 hindsight comment.

PLEASE if someone is gracious enough to lend you a guitar, make your observations in private - or your donor will not be so generous again.

I AM going to try those John Pearse next, heard good things about them.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:54 AM

Leenia's guitar has nylon strings.
John Pearse is nice but it's all down to individual taste.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:58 AM

You know your strings are worn out when you ask if your strings are worn out.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 01:24 PM

when yer booed off stage

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Young Buchan
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 07:27 AM

Guitar strings are worn out AS SOON AS THEY ARE TAKEN OUT OF THE PACKET. Please keep them in the packet at all times. Any strings that are already on the guitar should be taken off and put into an old packet, if available, or dustbin if not.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 10:03 AM

You are confusing guitars with banjos.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 03:39 PM

You'll know when WD40 will no longer bring them back to life. I have a set on my diy SG Junior unchanged since 1995.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 08:17 PM

If you think they don't sound as good as they used to change them.
Otherwise "If it ain't broke don't try to fix it"

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 08:18 PM

This thread is silly.

You know your strings have had it when
1. they look corroded
2. they don't hold tuning
3. they sound crap

When you notice these things, change your strings (I recommend John Pearse strings). If you don't notice these things, quit playing the guitar, you're hopeless.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 06:38 AM

I tried boiling strings in coffee many years ago. They still sounded awful when I put them back on.

I hope this don't put the cat among the pigeons, but I found 'Elixir' strings awful - the comment in my mind was 'these were dead before I fitted 'em !'

I used La Bella Silk and Steel for many, many years, but can't seem to get them , these days. Martin Silk and Steel are acceptable substitutes for my Tanglewood.

With me it is a matter of 'if they sound f*cked, almost certainly they are', so I change them.

On the Gretsch I have always used Gibson steels, with an 11 thou 1st. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 06:50 AM

Never boil strings in coffee, it does no good.
Best way to rejuvinate tired strings is to wash them with your socks and underwear. Try this and you,ll never go back to those other silly methods.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: redsnapper
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 07:19 AM

Then best rejuvenating fluid I've found for strings is a product called K9P available from good music and engineering supply stores. Be sure to ask for it by name and explain what it is for.

I've found Elixirs good but they are not for everybody. They will hold the sound they start with, whether you like that or not, for much longer than uncoated strings.

These days I tend to use Newtones on most instruments as Malcolm Newton will supply them in custom gauges for the different instruments I play. They are well made and last well. I use Savarez Alliance HT regulars on my electro-classical after a long search for classical strings I really like.

RS

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 07:36 AM

"If you don't notice these things, quit playing the guitar, you're hopeless."

If you haven't learned already - quit taking advice from folks with attitudes like this!

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 08:57 AM

What's all this stuff about boiling strings in coffee and putting WD40 on them? Buy a new set you cheapskates - if your music's not worth 6 or 7 quid, take up the kazoo (or comb and paper if you're too mean to buy one).

With a guitar, a cittern, two mandolins and an octave mandola to keep sounding sweet, it can sometime seem like painting the Forth Bridge but I just make sure they don't all need changing at the same time. Guitar gets changed about every two months (depending on how much I play it) with maybe a first or second string breaking in between due to different tunings; the rest about every 3 to 4 months.

I found the secret to keeping strings sounding good for longer is to wipe them with a clean cloth after every playing.

Incidentally, Martin Simpson once told me he changes his strings before every performance (I watched him doing it)though it may not be as often now he's switched to D'Addario Long Lifes.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 05:17 PM

The very fact that someone has actually ASKED this question encompasses everything that is wrong with the 'folk' community today, please, if you are so fucking inept that you have to ask this question it really vindicates every criticism that people throw at folk music. Can't you tell when they sound dull? It's something I learned 30 odd years ago when I started playing, it's one of the basics of being a musician. I railed at my 15 year old son tonight because after taking Bass Guitar lessons for over a year he said he still couldn't tune the thing on his own...He damned well should be able to! it's one of the basics! I'm sorry to be blunt but I don't think on the folk scene there are enough people who are blunt, use those slivers of meat on the side of your head, EARS! You don't need fancy electronic tuners, just your own common sense.... I really do despair?

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 02:31 AM

Now now, juicy Brucie, take your meds like good boy.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 04:29 AM

Oh dear, Bruce - I suggest you lie down in a darkened room until you feel better.

That's a good little folkie.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:38 AM

Err...he's got point, though!

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: deadfrett
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 08:57 AM

When they stop going ting and go thunk instead. I've tried Elixair strings but the third never lasts more than a week, At $25 a they're not worth it to me. Martin Darcos 80/20 's work well on both my guitars. D'addario EXP42 for dobro and Martin Mediiums for banjo last a quite a while with out a lot of breakage. There are a lot of good dulcimer sets too. Martin seems to be the most available. I usually get several sets at a time which gets me a good price break. Even then you might get a batch where one of the same string is bad. and it continues thru the whole case. I've even had strings missing.
But dealers are always willing to help you out in replaceing the problem. Now if we could only get harmonicas to last!! Cheers-Dave

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Old Nick
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 09:11 AM

Fancy elctronic tuners? They're a bit like those awful television machines - nasty new fangled inventions! It's a pity someone can't ask a simple question without getting railed at by someone who thinks "being blunt" is necessarily a virtue. I don't suppose your son will be playing for much longer if that's all the encouragement he gets. Do you call hime "fucking inept" as well? Actually, you were just repeating what the second post in this thread says "Have confidence - if it sounds okay to you - its probably okay!" although the weelittledrummer put it a tad more politely and in fewer words. I've always found a polite turn of phrase and a little ecouragement produces better results than bombastic bullying.

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Hitchin' John
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 05:31 AM

I picked a friends guitar up and it sounded dreadfully dull. On asking how long the strings had been on it was clear she was not sure but it seemed likely to be about a year.

The next week she thanked me for asking as she had changed the strings and realised what a difference it makes.

If you are addicted to the sound of bright shiny new strings it could cost you a lot of money (and time) but most people can live with the sound of played in strings for several weeks and possibly months.

I have bass guitars which I leave the strings on as long as possible as the sound of new bass strings is brash beyond belief, not just because the price of a set of bass strings will buy 3 sets of standard guitar strings.

John

Subject: RE: how do I know when strings are worn out?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 05:42 AM

I like the reggae bass guitar sound - no snap and a big woowoowoo at thebottim, but it doesn't really work on acoustic 6s or 12s.

OTOH, how to tune a guitar (at least, reasonably closely) is the first thing you have to learn when learning to play. But shouting at people usually does not help them learn.