 sj |
||
|
||
What has happened here?
|
|
|
Subject: What has happened here? From: Whistleworks Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:45 AM My dear friends, In the past several weeks, I have noted that more and more threads in this discussion group have severely drifted off the course of folk music. To me, this is sad. There are most likely hundreds if not thousands of discussion groups on the internet that deal with politics and current events. I would never attempt to play down recent events, nor am I saying that folk music does not often involve politics and events, but quite honestly, the discussions here are so off topic that I am forcing myself to log ON to Mudcat these days. Therefore, I will bid farewell to this group for a while and come back some time when the threads get closer to the music and the hatred, anger, and just unkind expressions on many of the threads become a thing of the past. My very best regards to you all, Bob Pegritz |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: GUEST,What happened to free will Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:50 AM Bobby, 1.It is pretty easy to discern the topic of each thread. 2.There are no rules that require you to open/read those not related to music. Did you think otherwise? 3.Start taking your medication again. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: ard mhacha Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:52 AM Whistleworks, I have to agree, no problem if you can find the odd Folk song query. Slan Ard Mhacha. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: The Shambles Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:55 AM I think that there are many of us that share your view.
Many of those, like myself who do not think that the forum should be exclusivly musical.
These are exceptional times but I think that we should try to resist the temptation to start yet another thread on this important subject.
There is a long-running series of theads that will quite easily keep all possible views on the subject in one place. Then we will all know where to look, rather than turning the forum into something it is not.
For just the titles of many of them are enough to make you go elsewhere. Just a bit of common sense please? |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Marymac90 Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:57 AM Whistleworks, check back soon. People will always come back to folk music. Or start a thread with a folk music topic you'd like to discuss. All the best, Marymac |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Maryrrf Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:20 AM Personally I only read threads that I'm interested in, judging by the titles. If I open a thread and it's not what I thought it was I just go on to the next one. For example, I haven't read any of the "American Attacks" threads. I get enough of that listening to the radio and watching TV! The good thing about an on-line situation is that you can ignore the people/topics you don't care for without being rude! |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jim Dixon Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:21 AM I have felt the same way you do. I have spent some fretful hours trying to figure out how to change things, and I conclude that the situation is hopeless. Trying to change Mudcat is like pushing on a rope. But it needn't spoil your day. After a while, you can learn to recognize the threads that are not about music. Ignore them. If you can't see enough music threads to interest you, set the age filter to, say, 7 days, and then click "refresh" to see more threads. Or plug the name of any interesting musician, band, song, or style into the "DigiTrad and Forum Search" and click "Go." You will find lots of interesting stuff to read. If you find some good stuff in an old thread, and you have a comment to make, go ahead and post the comment, no matter how old the thread is. That will pop it to the top of the current list. Maybe someone else will find it interesting, too. I think this is what my parents were trying to get across to me when I was a kid and I complained of being bored: "If you're bored, it's your own fault. The world does not have a responsibility to entertain you. Use some creativity. Entertain yourself. When the world sees that you're having a good time, they will join you." |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jeri Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:31 AM Some folks think "free will" around here implies responsibility only on the part of the reader. Sometimes it means keeping your mouth shut for the greater good. (When what you say doesn't add anything or could better be said elsewhere.) Now, I can understand a political thread or several, but it seems like one thread is started after another, and the same folks are involved in all of them, saying pretty much the same things. Hardly anyone around here is willing to keep their mouth shut about anything, no matter who it might hurt. This is just one person's view, of course, but the message I'm getting from the overall tone of the forum is "Fuck the music, this is an opportunity to discuss politics, and I don't give a shit about the music. I don't give a shit what you think either."
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Pseudolus Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:33 AM My take on this is somewhat different. I view mudcat kinda like my local Pub. Many of my friends are there each with a different subject going on at their table. I can join or avoid any of the discussions I'd like to because my friends are not the jealous type and although I'm welcome at their table, no one's mad if I don't join them. The events of September 11th have thrown us for quite a loop around here as it has across the country. We are all dealing as best we can. Yeah, more tables around the Pub are discussing the tragedy and may still for quite a while, but there are still plenty of tables with other conversations and the best part, at Mudcat, there are ALWAYS empty tables for you to sit down, start a discussion, and see who shows up. So Mudcat is what you make of it, no more, no less....... Frank |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: GUEST,What happened to free will Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:39 AM Gee Jeri, you just gave an excellent demonstration of why the first amendment was created. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:43 AM WhistleWorks...I agree with you...and have felt this was for years.
The "mission statement" for this site is CLEARLY posted as the TOP header to EVERY page.
A Magazine Dedicated to the Blues and Folk Music To "correct" and "redirect" the mistaken.... several 'New' elements have been added.... unfortunately, too many folk who are "regulars" and "Know Better" elect to air their life's own personal daily "blues" in a public forum....rather than the private e-mail and chat areas specifically set up for that purpose.
Sincerely,
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:43 AM Well this last week has been a bit extraordinary - if we hadn't been exchanging views and feelings about what's happened, we'd have been a pretty peculiar lot.
And I think some of the stuff that's been in the discussion threads this week have been a lot more thoughtful and thought-provoking than you get in most of the mass media. I think I've learnt far more about what it feels like to be an American at this time than I ever would from the TV or papers.
Generally speaking I have always found that if you turn your back for a bit when the Mudcat seems overwhelmed with non-music discussions, by the time you turn back kit's all music. That will happen again in time - but these are odd times.
And aside from the discussion the last week has thrown up some unique music related threads - see the one Song for NYC Firefighters... especially. And also New Songs for 9-11-01
Most music threads are quite short, because they are people asking for words or information, and someone normally come sup with that pretty quickly. Only sometimes do they turn into discussions about the background of the song or the meaning and so forth, and they are the best threads of all maybe.
If you count the number of threads you normally find that music related ones are in a majority. But they intend to be down the bottom of the page, because people don't use them in the same way they do discussion threads and so forth. But they are still here, and I've started a good few even this week. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:06 AM It's natural that these times will produce more conversation and arguments. I think some of the threads over the past week have well reflected the feelings around the world. The American Attacks threads were running along pretty well with a few offshoot threads, giving everyone a chance and a place to voice their opinions, as Frank says, "Pub Style." The past few days though seem to have drastically increased the number of treads with many of them being damn near identical. I figured the Series thread would be pretty much the place we continued the discussion and the numbers would decrease, but exactly the opposite happened. Another series would be better to keep all the info confined to fewer threads. A number of the threads have been deliberate trolls as well and once again Mudcat bit in most cases. Yeah, I'm an inveterate BS'er but I have also actively participated in many types of music threads.........But this mass of same topic threads that have come up the past few days is getting to be ridiculous....even for me. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: katlaughing Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:14 AM When I compiled the list of initial threads on last week's evens, I was shocked at how many there were. They were all important and I think represented a microcosm of what most of the world was going through. Since then, however, there have been so many more started. I would prefer to see people add to the ones we already have rather than start so many others. Just as when we've had other crises, they take over for a week or two, but the music always comes back or, even intertwines as was the case when Columbine happened. BTW, I am still waiting to hear if anyone knows what "Dakota's Cross" refers to in a Lyr Add I did a couple of weeks ago. I'll refresh it in hopes someone can answer that. Thanks, kat |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:31 AM Whistleworks, Here is my 2 cents. Going back to way before Woody Guthrie, folk music has always been at least partially about topical things and people's feelings on issues. With that in mind it is difficult for me at least to imagine a topic that is not at least tangently related to folk music. Also the forum has the potential at least to be a community of people with a common interest. I want to know what other folk musicians think about the issues. I write my own songs so I rarely asks for tabs etc. But I do incorporate a lot of the ideas generated here into my songs. Last night when I logged in there were a lot of music related threads. I am even tempted to speculate that recent events have brought us closer to our music. All that being said I want to thank you for the good manners of starting your own thread rather that polluting another thread with your criticisms. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Clifton53 Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:41 AM Whistleworks, I like the way you started this thread,"my dear friends". It reminded me of why I joined in the first place. I'm guilty for wading in like a drunken brute when a bit more thought and compassion was called for. Stick around, we need you. Clifton
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Steve in Idaho Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:57 AM Jack the Sailor - Here here!! Clifton53 - me too. But my opinion is stated in the LyrAdd post of Poem - How to treat friends. Peace - Steve |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: The Shambles Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:04 AM The world has been knocked off balance.
It is hardly surprising that the forum has been too.
These are indeed 'odd' times. We can only do what we can to try and help restore the balance, on Mudcat and elsewhere. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Mrrzy Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:08 AM I think that our reality check has just been deposited... |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jeri Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:24 AM Here are some of the most recent ones, in case anyone's missed any. (I may have missed some myself):
The Key to All US war strategy - started by Donuel 21 Sep 8:12AM |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: InOBU Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM Hi Jim Dixon: Pushing rope is not really that hard... soak it in fresh water, (not salt water,) freeze it and bingo! - Larry PS Rope also pushes real well if it is coiled not flemished. Hmmm, think I may write a song about that.... had a great great grand mum, Sara Dixon, wonder if we are related... what time is it anyway... Anyone know if it is raining in New York? Was eariler, well, I sould get back to recording... Is that the telipone or the tea kettle... |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:56 AM And here are a batch of music thread currently on the page:
Lyr Req: Roses Of Piccardy (sp?) 'We'll Meet Again' - who wrote it? ADD: We Shall Walk Through the Valley False true love(r)? Help: Mummer play info?
And that's just a start, readingup from the bottom of the page. See what I mean? |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:44 PM I think part of the problem is that not many have felt like it was right to use the BS prefix to talk about 9/11. So it does make it hard to sort what's what. I liked it when we used POL for a while, but a certain troller/flamer's posting name gave that one a pretty bad taste and it never really caught on. If I hadn't had the project on spirituals to focus on around here in the last few weeks, I think I'd be feeling a lot like WW... But in a time like this, I don't think it makes any sense to try to figure out what the heck people are doing... or why... we are all just doing the best we can. Thread-starters and Whistleworks, too. ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Greyeyes Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:07 PM I think Kat is right, people are unwilling to use the BS prefix for these threads , understandably. Perhaps "Non-music" would be acceptable. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Greyeyes Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:12 PM Sorry, I meant Praise, not Kat, it's been a long day. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jon Freeman Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:40 PM I think the BS tag is a separate issue to the volume of posts mentioned by others but there are problems with it: 1. It's meaning is unfortunate and is therfore deemed inappropriate (by some) for certain types of threads. 2. There is no requirement for the use of any tags. Although many users are co-operative, there are some who for what ever reason (including bieng new) do not use them. 3. There is no easy automatic way for those not wanting to read non-music threads to skip them. There is of coure an alternative form somewhere in the system that will exclude any threads with a chosen pattern of letters such as BS in but the user has to enter that each time. Refering to 3, When I started the Annexe, it displayed as a typical multi-forum system but users seemed to want it to list in "all lumped together" format. I changed it that way but I also built in a feature that allows a member to choose which of the forums they want to see posts from in that listing. The situation at Mudcat seems to be far simpler than mine as it is much less structured and there is only Music and Non Music to consider. It should be easy to allow a user to indicate a preference to read or omit BS in the Membership and list the threads based on that, and I wouldn't have thought it would be too much hassle for a person creating a thread to indicate whether it was on topic or not. I guess it gets to close to splitting the forum or whatever to be considered here though. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:24 PM Most of the time the music related ones are pretty easy to spot. If you don't want non-music, and accidentally open one up, you just shut it down. Even if it's along thread, you can just open it up in another window, and let it load, and you don't lose any time that way if, when you look at it after its loaded, and it turns out to be non-music.
And if you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is never any shortage of music thread. It's just that the ones with the rapid discussions rise to the top, and can make it look as if they are the only ones there, but that is never the case, so far as I have seen. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Peter T. Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:41 PM The reason why there are so many different threads is the same reason why Union Square in New York is filled with thousands of different pictures, scribbles, candles whatever. We are in an era when people want to express their need to mourn and respond in their own way. They want to create their own space in the larger public space. These are threads in a quilt of anger, stupidity, love, nonsense, music, personal testimony, etc. It will subside. Have some grace, some compassion, let it happen, for pity's sake. yours, Peter T. P.S. If a blues and folk music site is not centrally concerned about a tragedy of this kind it is completely and utterly worthless. This is the biggest goddamn blues you could ever not want. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: The Shambles Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:41 PM This is not the same old problem. It just makes the same old problems look worse.
Nearly all the non music threads are currently quite understandably all on one subject. There is little real need to start new ones.
It is also very frustrating if you want to go back and find a particular post, as you have so many similar threads to choose from. If all the posts on the subject were posted in one, or one series of threads, the balance of the forum could be restored quite easily. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: steve in ottawa Date: 21 Sep 01 - 04:43 PM I was browsing through a "Need For Speed" game site's forum. Nothing there except talk about games and cars and car games. Until September 11th. Suddenly there was no more talk about cars or games for a few days. The topic shift at Mudcat is hardly unique...but our posts are a lot longer :-) |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:07 PM As Steve says - I'm on a mailing list of people who like talking about a series of Nonsense books about an elephant called Uncle (great books, I could tell you more) - the last week it's all been about the Towers and about war and so forth.
And I don't think I've had a conversation with anyone in the 3D world where it hasn't come in. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: The Shambles Date: 22 Sep 01 - 06:00 AM What has happened here?
The same as what has happened everywhere else.
People just like you and me have killed themselves and hi-jacked and killed plane loads of people just like you and me, whilst crashing into the heart of two crowded cities, and killing more people just like you and me.
People just like you and me have risked and lost their lives to try and save people just like you and me.
The world is not the same as it was and may never be again.
I don't think anyone is saying that we should not discuss this on the forum, for how could we not? All that is being requested is that we show a little common sense.
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: InOBU Date: 22 Sep 01 - 08:28 AM I agree with all that has been said here, and for more advice about pushing rope, do read my doctoral thesis, rejected I am afraid, Pushing Rope Up Hill on Hot Afternoons when World War is Imminant... A copy can be found in the trash behind NYU's graduate pol. sci. dept. Cheers, Larry |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: John Hardly Date: 22 Sep 01 - 09:26 AM I agree with Peter T's assessment, but I would add that (and I've made the point before) there are inherent differences between this forum format and the "pub" analogy. At a pub you can actually know (or not) that you are being ignored, snubbed, thought ignorant, or had a thought assimilated and accepted. The other folks will acknowledge you or not----but you know either way. as this is the norm for conversational type communication---it is easy to forget that this isn't (and can't be) the way a forum works. As shambles has pointed out to me, it should be obvious but it's easily forgetable that just because nobody responds to your post doesn't mean it wasn't read...or even agreed with. But...
What many of you have found (learned), as evidenced by your posting style, is that you CAN"T post with the goal of getting a response. You will almost certainly be disappointed.
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jeri Date: 22 Sep 01 - 09:44 AM The main thing that bothered me was that multiple threads were being started to express a thought that might have fit in some other threads, and folks were replying in all of them. Let's face it - we've probably lost most of the folks who come here for serious music discussion anyway. We're down to folks who don't mind some, or all non-music discussion, and of the folks who like "some" I guess there will be a few who think we've gone over the line into "most." I hope they come back, but I don't think many people here care. Slowly but surely, the nature of the forum is weeding them out. I do understand the need to talk about this, but most of the threads I've seen started in the last couple of days have been about "should we kick ass, who's ass should we kick, how should we kick it, and George W Bush." The focus is on anger and retribution, or it's simply another liberal vs. conservative smack-down. I still think of the victims. I've read what Larry (InOBU) has posted about the courage of the firefighters. I imagine what someone might think, if they've lost a loved one and come here looking for some comfort. I suspect they wouldn't hang around long. I watched the musical tribute that was on most US TV channels last night. They sang of love and courage and faith. In between the songs, they told the stories of individuals: A firefighter that was to retire that day, went to the site anyway and was killed. A man who chose to stay behind with his paraplegic friend, and both were killed, a man with a light who grasped the hand of a fallen firefighter, who in turn grasped a hand until a human chain was formed - all were led to safety and the man with the light was never identified. He just walked off. The program was something to be proud of. I know I can't change anyone's mind about what they post here. I know my voice is a small one, easily ignored. Folks who hate are going to go on hating, folks who are angry will remain angry, and folks who see opportunity for political debates will continue debate until whatever ideas were originally present lie in an unrecognisable, bleeding heap. I'm doing nothing more than adding my point of view to all the rest...at least the rest of those who are still around and willing to say what they think.
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 22 Sep 01 - 10:01 AM thank heavens you have the option of worrying about something so trivial and get on with it. mg |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jeri Date: 22 Sep 01 - 10:13 AM John Hardly, I agree with most of what you've said. Another difference in the pub analogy is you can only be involved in one conversation at a time. (Well, exceptionally skilled individuals could probably be in 2 or 3 if they're going on in close proximity.) It's interesting to note that at least in the political debates, people have to read what another person has written in order to disagree with them. Folks in the music threads often seem to post their own opinion/information and aren't interested in a discussion. Therefore, you get the one-liners such as "it's at my web page" or "it's in the DT" or "it was recorded by ____." I enjoy it when someone can come up stories about the music, but it doesn't happen very often. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Sep 01 - 10:25 AM John, I think the main reason for the multiple treads is that a person or group of people get so absorbed with their own other interests or need a need to voice thier own opinions on a subject that interests them that they don't stop and think about what they are doing. At it's worst, it gets like a loud night in a session where the chatters just talk louder, totaly oblivious of what effect they are having on the music. Jeri, I hope they come back, but I don't think many people here care. Slowly but surely, the nature of the forum is weeding them out. I just wish more people would realise that and care about it. Having said that, and I could be wrong on this, I did get the feeling before the exceptional circumstances of 9/11 that there was more willingness from some to try to compromise a little and help try to make it as good as it can be for all. Jon
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: John Hardly Date: 22 Sep 01 - 10:38 AM Mary, It's and interesting concept to assume that music and art are "trivial"...but I don't accept it. I actually think that music and art are at least as powerful, and as much a need in the human soul as politics/science/religion. In my mind, when this kind of "perspective check" is suggested, I remember a few instances where my point of view is validated. I remember the story of a jewish violinist, saved from execution during WW2 because of a German officer's need for music. A few years ago there was a Glenn Close movie about a group of POW's who transcended their conditions with music. Our own history is rich with people finding significant and worthwhile ways of interacting with their fellow man because of music. When Bill Clinton invited James Taylor to give him a personal concert (while visiting on Martha's vineyard)---In my mind I couldn't help but feel as though James Taylor was the more powerful of the two men---he certainly has done more to bless the human condition. Finally, on this forum in the last few days, a story was shared of music being used in NY as a "Balm in Gilead" I think it's an easy thing to fall into thinking that what we talk about here is of relative unimportance when compared to socio/political events that seem to shape our history.......but give me art any day and I'll shape the human soul. Jeri, Yeah, I want> to hear stories of, "Oh I remember when I first heard..." or "I find that when I play an A chord, if I..." or "....... And I do want people to take as much care to respond (that means READ, as well as POST), to the music threads. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: John Hardly Date: 22 Sep 01 - 10:44 AM ...Oh, and Jon and Jeri, I agree they're either gone or in hiding.
"Let's face it - we've probably lost most of the folks who come here for serious music discussion anyway. We're down to folks who don't mind some, or all non-music discussion" --Jeri |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Peter T. Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:02 PM I hate to disagree with Jeri, the truth is that many people here are interested in both. I also cannot see how anyone can separate, especially in blues and folk music, "serious" music from "serious" concerns about life and death. This music does not exist in a Platonic realm, nor, except at the most esoteric level, in mathematics textbooks. I want to know who these mysterious serious music people are, and what they are interested in? Modes? What Bill Broonzy thought about Igor Stravinsky? Counterpoint in bluegrass? The provenance of handbills in early 19th century Dublin? We seem to be able to chat about these, if they interest people. I note that we have had many discussions recently that would not disgrace a folk seminar. yours, Peter T. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:13 PM Opps John (Hardly). My post was misleading. The bit you quoted from me was from Jeri - somehow I ommited to use any method of indicating it was a quote. Sorry. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jeri Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:19 PM Peter, you aren't disagreeing with me. If you read what I wrote, I wasn't saying there should be no political debate. I believe in my case, the WTC attacks and especially the responses have affected me more than I'd realised. What has bothered me more than anything is a strong, but non-specific feeling about the focus on divisive issues. Not the divisive issues, but the seemingly single-minded and relentless focus. I know I have no say in what other people post, and I don't want any. I would only wish people to think about readers' feelings as well as their own, as posters. I understand other people don't see things the way I do, but we all can express our own opinions. This is mine. I think, in order to disagree with my main point, you'd have to tell me I don't have a right to feel this way. |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:30 PM I guess I think that if we don't like how things are, we should do our part to change them, and that action is best taken on the individual level. And there is a lot an individual can do. Look at the spirituals project-- it's just hitting critical mass now as people with different angles and research resources climb on board to study, share, discuss. I get the sense that those of us working on it, as an informal work group, are all tremendously excited. And all it took for it to hit critical mass (IMO) was one more new member wandering in, who happens to be all the way across the globe from Mudcat Central, and who has an interest, a collection, and skill in searching and creating links. That one person (Masato Sakurai), and his participation, has made it possible to hang all the rest of our resources in Spirituals together. We also had a good example of proactivity recently when Uli, a maker and wise man on Aeolian harps, was found during a search done for a member's help-request. Uli was invited to come share here, and he did, and he came back multiple times to do it because the thread link had been provided and he was welcomed here immediately. Also recently a new member, with limited understanding of Net searching, came along. She was helped not only to find things, but to know how to post from her excellent collection of songs, and is now starting to search to help on the spirituals, because she was shown how and was aksed to help. These things are not so hard to do. There are other things we can do. So-- If you grieve the loss of those who have left, and you know them well enough to send e-mail, start a topic that will interest them (or spot one in progress), and invite them to come discuss that. Or bring new people in-- for example once I have the Spirituals info a little better organized I am going to invite people doing websites on spirituals to choose Mudcat as their forum of choice for discussing and sharing what is known. We do a great job of searching-- but how often do you drop a person a line to say, "Thanks for your stuff, we posted it here, please come discuss"? How often, when you search, do you ask the site owner if they know about Mudcat, or check to see if they already have a link to the forum posted? Did you know that most of the sites that include links here, link it as DIGITAL TRADITION and do not even mention the forum? The link takes you to the main Mudcat page, and I wonder how many people even see that the forum is available in their rush to get to the DT. I love DT too, but we have an incredible resouce of reseach and commentary in the threads, as well as a bazillion songs in them not in DT. Any of us can choose to shift our attention back to music. The BS filter Pene gave in another thread helps do that. And if BS is ignored more often by more people it will fade, too. One could choose to treat them as we treat trolls and flames (on a good day). But I think I will always wonder about people here, after 9/11-- were they here posting madly away, or out singing somewhere? How many of us turned to mmusic, ourselves, for healing, and how many were frozen at the screen? ~S~
|
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:31 PM Peter T, the fact is that it is separated in many places. The recent events have spilled over into a few but not all of the folk related forums and newsgoups I read but the response was rather more limited than in Mudcat. With regards to your view on serious concerns about life and death, believe it or not, I happen to agree with you but I still think a little restraint and moderation should be applied. I don't agree with your apparently unchanged view that anyone who doesn't see things your way ("Modes? What Bill Broonzy thought about Igor Stravinsky? Counterpoint in bluegrass? The provenance of handbills in early 19th century Dublin?") must be some form of wierdo. They are not, they are just different to you. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Big Mick Date: 22 Sep 01 - 01:39 PM Music and art, historically, ARE the prime shapers of thought. Television and all the various forms of media certainly portray events, but when they want to create a mood or an effect (WHAT????? You don't mean to tell the networks are trying to shape our opinions????) they use a musical sound track. Nothing affects the human soul and moves it to act like music. Don't believe it? What about the Warpipes? What about the protest songs? The parodies? As I have been saying for the years I have been here; to discuss folk music or blues music without discussions of politics and events is ridiculous. Mudcat has never been a music forum. It is a community of musicians and fans. Our glue is music, but our community is a discussion forum on virtually any topic. I will say this, and it might surprise some. While I wouldn't advocate any form of censorship, I grew weary of the discussion re: 9/11/01. I grew weary of the redundancy of the threads. And I grew weary of the flamers/trollers who started horseshit threads just to show they could manipulate. And I especially grew weary of those who fed these miscreants. So I just did what we all can do. I ignored them. But I would have given anything for a discussion of the definition of folk music, or the merits of a Seagull guitar. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jeri Date: 22 Sep 01 - 02:46 PM Jon, Peter said "I want to know who these mysterious serious music people are, and what they are interested in?" I don't see how that says anything about other people being weirdos. In light of Peter's adventures with the Wayon Heron, I can't see him throwing the first stone, anyway. I think we're in danger of responding to what we think we read instead of what is actually on the screen. Last night, on that telethon, Pink Floyd (or members thereof) sang a re-write of "I Wish You Were Here" that was incredible. There was a line about looking for someone to blame. I think it's possible a lot of us are mad and need to fight against an enemy. Without having one conveniently standing in front of us, maybe we fight with anyone who's willing. Maybe I just have a problem with anger, and people lashing out because of it, and it really is just my own problem. Maybe some form of kindness will be more evident here, and maybe it won't. Who knows, maybe I'll even quit griping about it all... |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Sep 01 - 03:09 PM Well Jeri, that was the context I read it in and re-reading it has not altered my mind: If Peter had stopped where you stopped, I would have agreed with you. Personally I read it as Peter trying to trivailse matters (and in this case "serious music people") and be slightly outrageous in answer to comments or suggestions by others. This is the same was I read it when, in another similar thread he said:
Jon |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Amos Date: 22 Sep 01 - 03:38 PM The notion of getting sad because people of common interests are communicating strikes me as completely bass-ackwards. The more you have to say about purely musical issues, the more threads you can be expected to start on those topics. When you have something you want your friends to hear -- and I count all of the members of this forum friends -- why woudl you want to feel you could not communicate it here? You want sad, start a survey of people in the world who have no means of exchanging ideas with many others in a courteous way. Count folks who are confused as hell about something and don't have any way to find out what others think. Count folks whose friends are in the single digits, remote and insulated and only occasional able to get together and share thoughts. There's sad for you. And I echo Peter's feeling that folk music divorced from the passions and times of human life is no folk music at all. Amos |
|
Subject: RE: What has happened here? From: Peter T. Date: 22 Sep 01 - 04:02 PM Jon! Me trivialise matters?! I thought it was obvious that anyone who didn't agree with me was a weirdo. (I think it was Wittgenstein who said that they only stick in the world that couldn't be measured was the official metre stick in Paris). Me=normal. (joke, joke, joke, ask the heron). I am afraid I am an unrepentant believer in having people talk about what concerns them here and enjoy having lots of people disagree with me completely -- why this makes me dogmatic I can't figure, but I guess I must be. Having said that, I am personally averse here to the continous sound of drumbeats calling to war, it is really tiresome -- and speaking of tiresome, every psychiatrist knows that people like to be part of a story bigger than they are: it relieves their internal struggles, but I am also openly prepared like some other people to say that wallowing around in the WTC stuff is getting tiresome and self-indulgent, especially for people who don't have a family member or close friend lost. It is turning into an emotional drug that people cannot get off -- turn the TV off and go and hug a tree for crumbs sake. Still, I think we have enough elastic here to let people be tiresome and self-indulgent from time to time (including pontificating tiresome and self-indulgent people like me). This is a big event in the world, and will take time for people to absorb and turn into real music here, elsewhere. Sometimes this place is like the raw material dump, and like all dumps, it isn't pretty: I think it will go into grass soon enough. The artistic optimist in me. yours, Peter T. P.S. I apologise for underreading Jeri's comments. P.P.S. I bought a lousy Seagull guitar a few years ago, and it took all the craft of Rick Fielding to fix the damn thing so it was playable. |
| Share Thread: |