BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 13 May 12 - 04:11 AM

The 'Concise Oxford Dictionary' gives the meaning of paedophillia simply as "sexual desire directed towards children". No mention as to whether they are prepubescent or not. I understand the youngest victim in the case was 13 and most were under the age of consent in the UK. That is the age where someone is regarded as a child. Hence certainly according to the COD, and the law in the UK, the accused are paedophiles.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Teribus
Date: 13 May 12 - 05:03 AM

Rochdale "Grooming-Ring" Mark 2 just about to be exposed

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:21 AM

Any more categories of people ripe for the noose you'd like to apprise us of, Brian? And thanks for the slur. Do have it back.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:23 AM

Dave. "I hope that you just as strongly oppose the sick pervert who is trying to get off the charge by playing the race card."

Of course. I would have thought that went without saying.

"I am not sure about your BTW though - What are you trying to imply? That white people are more likely to commit these crimes?"

No. I'm merely pointing out that the far right's attempts to portray this as a racial crime are completely without foundation. Plus, I have never heard anyone on the far right condemn, EG., paedophile Catholic priests, or paedophile care home workers, or paedophile sex tourists. But immediately they can make a bit of hay out of condemning Asians by calling them paedophiles, they are right there, baying for blood.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Brian May
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:45 AM

Any more categories of people ripe for the noose you'd like to apprise us of, Brian? And thanks for the slur. Do have it back.

IF you're having a go at me, that's fine, I can protect myself. For me, it goes with the territory (this forum) and I'm up for it.

IF you're defending the scumbags that do this sort of things to kids . . . then that is a different matter altogether.

I'm at least speaking about the subject from experience of dealing with the damage caused (6 damaged people at last count, but they're only the brave tip of the iceberg) - where are YOU coming from?

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Brian May
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:52 AM

In fact Steve I've re-read all your posts on this subject - you've not really contributed positively at all - have you?

In my book, considering the subject, I think I shall be ignoring anything further from you as an escape of air at 37 degrees Celsius.

Have a really nice day . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 13 May 12 - 07:23 AM

"Plus, I have never heard anyone on the far right condemn, EG., paedophile Catholic priests,"

I don't think you've looked very far then!

"Of course the sexual and physical abuse of children has been covered up for years and indeed centuries by the church of Rome and it's Pope.
But it seems to be particularly prevalent in Irish Catholicism and amongst Irish priests"

That is from a blog on the BNP Northern Ireland site. I'm not suggesting they aren't using the current case to attack Islam - just showing that they don't restrict it to Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 May 12 - 09:46 AM

(6 damaged people at last count,

Two years ago, Hilary Wilmer had 400 children on her file, all victims of this exact abuse and most unprosecuted.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 12 - 12:04 PM

There was a daycare center trial probably 20 - 25 years ago now. I think in North Carolina, but if not, it was in the east and the south. Parents and prosecutors started questioning children in such a way that they got affirmative answers regarding abuse and the owners of the day care and some employees were tried and imprisoned.

Trouble is, it never happened. None if it. It was the results of an "investigation" by an overzealous [read: poorly trained and unprofessional] social worker and prosecutor. It spread and claimed more victims before someone finally declared "enough already!" and proved it was bogus. The investigation, started by someone who didn't know what they were doing, resulted in a form of community hysteria. It was ugly to look at and there were in the end a lot of victims, but they were the adults fingered by the two who started it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 May 12 - 01:08 PM

SRS - the McMartin Family in California.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 12 - 01:12 PM

That's the name - there may have been a similar event in the east. About then is when people were "remembering" things suppressed from childhood that never happened. Rosie O'Donnell et al. A sort of mass-hysteria set off by the first events, played skillfully by some unethical (or at the very least and most charitable, very-poorly trained counselors).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Brian May
Date: 13 May 12 - 04:15 PM

As for the 'remembered' stuff which didn't happen, in the case I was involved with, certain witnesses 'evidence' was discounted as unreliable due to the (then) age of the 'victim'.

It DOES happen, and obviously the police and the Crown Prosecution Service were mindful of that. This was interference with a particular extended family, I KNOW more than six were affected, but some haven't come forward (oh I don't blame them) and others were considered less effective than the alternatives.

The perpetrator was jailed for 7 years. In my (slightly right wing view) is it should have been longer, however 'justice' has to some extent been seen to be done. At least the victims can now gather together the tatters of their life. The very people that they should have been trusting were the ones that abused them. That's so hard to bear.

This is why I hold more extreme views on the perpetrators than the normal reasoned, and reasonable outlook I normally take. Well that's my excuse anyway.

So as for the original post, the fact that these guys are Muslims just adds to my revulsion. The reason for that is this country (UK) has got SO PC and so afraid to be called racists, this gang get away with far more than they should if they were white Brits.

Their contempt for this country's laws and judiciary was blatant. They'll use the very laws intended to ensure fair play to ensure it's not FOR THE VICTIMS, don't we CARE about them?

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 12 - 04:31 PM

You don't have a normal, reasoned and reasonable outlook, Brian. People like you make Genghis Khan look like a liberal pinkie. Do continue to slag off people who don't take your extremist views. It's quite entertaining, in a gallows sort of way. Ugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Brian May
Date: 13 May 12 - 05:12 PM

37 degrees Celsius

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 12 - 05:48 PM

I once read an absolutely sickening book, written by a Christian zealot, who determined that all sexual abuse cases against members of the church as being made up by the children 'possesed by demons'. What was most sickening is that this sick person was trying to make politcal points on the backs of abused children.

I can see it happening here, I'm afraid. My whole point in raising this thread was that one of the 9 convicted was playing the race card to get away with it. The right have picked up on it, as have their opponents. It is no longer about children loosing their innocence but about who did what, who is worse and why the politicians are correct. The losers are, as always. the victims.

Carry on arguing if you must but remeber what this is all about.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:11 PM

Steve Shaw, you are a pain, you have to turn discussions into slagging off, can you not accept that other people have different views, without insulting them.
I am sickened by people who mess with vulnerable and defenceless children, I do not know how society should deal with these offenders, but I do know that the victims have their lives ruined.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 12 - 07:38 PM

Dick, you are pathetic. You lie low, wait for a controversy to arise then wade in with your ridiculous and wacky opinion at the eleventh hour. Have you actually read this thread? Do you not realise that the man you're siding with, Brian May, has called for the death of all so-called paedophiles? A term he doesn't even understand, despite the bullshit we're getting from him of his being a "prosecution witness blah-bloody-blah"? Mr effin' Expert?? Do you think for one single millisecond that, because I don't actually happen to go along with his ludicrous, antediluvian lynch-mob mentality, that it means I somehow support these evil bastards?? I mean, what's up with you, Dick? Are you a member of the hang-'em-and-flog-'em brigade as well? Don't you think that complete tossers like Brian May deserve to be, as you so daintily put it, slagged off? Whose side are you on, Dick? Why don't you toddle off and hide your head in shame at this terrible error of yours in your wading in to support this horrible man? The decent people who post here all know very well what Brian May is really like. Do try to keep up and prevent yourself from making an even bigger arse of yourself than you already are!

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 12 - 02:56 AM

Dave, I think he "played the race card" because it was his only chance to escape conviction.
His lawyers tried to get the jury thrown out.
It might have worked.
It still might. He is to appeal.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Penny S.
Date: 14 May 12 - 07:42 AM

Possibly the thing about Rochdale is that it has a very active Crown Prosecution Officer (?title), himself a Muslim, who is determined that such cases will not be dropped because of some perceived failing in the victim, and resurrected this case after it had been turned down by his predecessor.

He was on the radio, either yesterday or Saturday, and he pointed out the proportions of men of different backgrounds involved in various types of grooming and exploitation. There is a far higher proportion of taxi drivers than any particular race, and it was stated that the opportunity for networking was critical.

Sunday programme

I think it's in here.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 May 12 - 09:31 AM

Steve , your post tells everyone a lot about yourself.
I have made my position quite clear about paedophiles, read my posts, I do not believe they should be hanged and flogged.
I have more sympathy for the victim than for the perpetrators, now Steve,take your hateful attempts to misrepresent me somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 12 - 09:55 AM

I didn't "misrepresent you". I asked you some questions in respect of your unwelcome intervention.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 May 12 - 11:00 AM

Ihave no idea who brian may is, but everyone has a right to express their opinion on this forum, but here are the rules
Be aware that our forum is Free.

Anonymity and Guest Posting are permitted.

You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak.

Be aware of what personal information you decide to share within the forum. It is public. Unlike Facebook, there is NO PRIVACY at all.

We care about your safety but we are not in the business of protecting you. Your kind and civil behavior is your best protection.   
   Steve, stop talking rubbish, how can saying "I am sickened by people who mess with vulnerable and defenceless children, I do not know how society should deal with these offenders, but I do know that the victims have their lives ruined. i do not know the answer"
" what is wacky about that
neither have i waded in at the eleventh hour, the very third post was mine and i made my views clear here
"how are they to be handled? they may have served prison sentences and think they have paid for their crimes, but their victims have been permanently scarred."
it is you who clearly has not read all the posts, now i suggest you go back to www.session.org where you can be rude[yes calling me pathetic is rude] and you are also inaccurate[ i have not waded in at the eleventh hour] and it is in fact you who has not read the posts properly .
I do not agree with Brian May but he has a right to make his point, neither am I siding with him, you behave in a puerile manner reminiscent of school bullies.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Brian May
Date: 14 May 12 - 01:47 PM

My, my Mr Shaw does get wound up . . . perhaps he 'protests too much'. . .

As I said, 37 degrees Celsius.

I must agree about the 'puerile manner reminiscent of school bullies'. I still think paedophiles should rot in Hell and it'll be a cold day there before I change that view.

I shall desist from further comment as I've made my views clear and am comfortable with what I have said - whether our mate Steve likes it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 12 - 02:09 PM

I for one I'm glad you're going away. As for you. Dick old fruit, you waded back in after a long absence from this thread with "Steve Shaw, you are a pain..." in the middle of (for want of a better word) a discussion in which you were not taking part. So who's puerile?

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 May 12 - 03:06 PM

you are puerile, rude and inaccurate,
just because I had not commented it does not mean I was not following the thread,I allow people to have different points of view from myself without insulting them, it is called tolerance.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 May 12 - 03:57 PM

Nothing like a little shit-slinging to liven up one's day, eh wot?

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 12 - 04:22 PM

It's obvious that people are reading posts with a "tone of voice" in their heads that leads to negative or mis-readings of the subject and contexts. If you enter the thread expecting trouble, chances are you'll find it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 12 - 07:07 AM

For the record,
I haven't participated in this thread because quite honestly I'm sick to the back teeth with people who have attempted to make these crimes 'racist' - even to the extent of suggestng that all male Pakistanis are potential perverts due to a "cultural implant" which has to be resisted.
Despite my decision not to get involved, I am now recieving PMs from our Klan representative in Hertford suggesting exactly that - I request publicly that he desists.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 12 - 07:13 AM

I was disappointed that you had nothing to say.
I sent this.
Sorry if it offended you.

Do you still deny an over-representation?
Any contribution for the thread?
From a letter in Guardian,
" the fact reiterated regularly by Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, that out of 77 recent convictions for grooming, rape and other predatory sex crimes, 67 involved Pakistani men. Analysis of five police investigations into these horrendous activities has revealed that 94% of the perpetrators were Asian."

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 12 - 07:34 AM

Over the past year Jim, you have raked up this subject over and over again, in threads that were completely unrelated to the issue.

I repeatedly asked you to desist, because you were hijacking and spoiling otherwise interesting threads.

Now that we actually do have a thread on that very issue, silence from Jim.
I just don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 12 - 07:38 AM

I'm far to old and too busy to take on a stalker - piss off!!
Jim Carroll
"you were hijacking and spoiling"
By the way - WE fucked up threads between us - no more Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 12 - 07:43 AM

It was always you who raised the issue.
It was always me who asked you to stop, or go to pms.
Now you have lost your enthusiasm.
Why is obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 12 - 02:01 PM

I don't think there was anyone suggesting the crimes were racist until you mentioned it, Jim. I know there is a lot of history but not every thread on this topic is the same.

I started this one in particular because one of the men found guilty is trying to wangle his way out of it by protesting that the jury were racist. It is, in my mind, a cynical and sickening use of the race card to mask the real issues. It is no wonder that the far right jump on the bandwagon when idiots like that give them all the ammunition they need.

Just so as you know.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 12 - 02:48 PM

"I don't think there was anyone suggesting the crimes were racist until you mentioned it, Jim."
No Dave - I was a little taken aback by how subdued Keith was in comparison to past performances, but this was the PM I received this afternoon, apparently in an attempt to bait me into this particular fray.
His claim that the vandalising of past threads is down to me rings somewhat hollow, doncha think?
"Do you still deny an over-representation?
Any contribution for the thread?
From a letter in Guardian,
"the fact reiterated regularly by Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, that out of 77 recent convictions for grooming, rape and other predatory sex crimes, 67 involved Pakistani men. Analysis of five police investigations into these horrendous activities has revealed that 94% of the perpetrators were Asian.""
Paki (or Asian in general)- bashing or wot?
He apparently hasn't the bottle to make these claims openly after the floor-wipings he has received of late, but chooses to make them privately in PMs.
Don't all racists have a yellow streak running up their back?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 12 - 03:17 PM

Dave knew about the pm Jim.
I posted the contents earlier.
The quote was made by a prominent British Pakistani, so no question of it being Pakistani bashing.
I would never use the racist expression "Paki"
You should not either Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: akenaton
Date: 15 May 12 - 03:48 PM

Wot goes around, comes around.

Game set and match to Keith I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Rochdale paedophile ring busted
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 12 - 06:07 PM

This THREAD has become ridiculous. I find it beyond belief that one member should goad another by PM into responding here.
Keith give it a rest