BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?

Subject: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 04:24 PM

If so - any chance of a copy. My recording stopped halfway through - It wasn't me! Honest! I used VideoPlus. Duff tape I reckon. Grrrrr.

Anyhow - anyone willing to lend me theirs?

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 04:27 PM

Dave, was this Hornblower at The Hotspur? I don't think we get it here until summer.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Gareth
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 04:31 PM

MMMM ! With respect, I prefer the books.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 04:38 PM

With respect, I think that Gareth's a twat

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 04:52 PM

Read them all in the 6th form library when I should have been studying History, Politics and British constituion and government, Gareth. Wonderful they were too but 35 years later I find slobbing in front of the TV easier than skiving in the library:-)

They are the Hotspur ones, Don. Saw the first 2 hours on Sunday and the first half of the second one on my broken tape tonight.

Someone help please!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 05:01 PM

I'll bet I reread all things Hornblower annually.

Gareth, I like the books too. But the films, even Gregory Peck's, have a charm for us visual types. And I've never noticed you to be be twatish.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Gareth
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 07:56 PM

AAAARGH ! Dont memtion the Gregory Peck Film ! A traversty (SP)

And without respect, Anon Guest, your oppinion don't count.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,Another Guest
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:07 PM

Dear Anon Guest,

Your comments are a question of mind over matter.

I don't think Gareth minds.

And you don't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:13 PM

Gareth,

It wasn't great but jeepers, I watch drivel to look at those ships.
Spencer Traceys Captains Courageous wasn't really the story but that footage of the Glouscester Men unsder sail makes it all fine with me.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:30 AM

It's a while since I read the book.
In the TV version, there is an Irish character called Wolf who hopes to lead a French invasion of Ireland. Wolf Tone?
No music to speak of. No shanties of course.
Much use of "2-6-Heave" which cropped up in a recent thread.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:37 AM

Shanties weren't sung on Royal Navy ships.........

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:24 AM

try Patrick O'Brian, Hornblower for grown-ups, with jokes. I used to re-read Hornblower books, but after my first O'Brian I've never returned to dear Hornblower, faithless chap that I am.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:17 AM

Still doesn't get me the video though. Mutter mutter mutter...

Noticed on Amazon that a DVD comes out 3rd Feb. Doesn't mention if this one is on it though. It's my birthday on the 5th so I guess I could go for it anyway;-)

In the meanwhile if there is anyone with a copy out there...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: My guru always said
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:41 AM

Oh No, I hope my husband didn't use videoplus while I was stuck in hospital, or I might only have bits of it too!

DtG: If we find we've got the whole thing I'll post straightaway!

Meanwhile, did anyone mention Alexander Kent, same stuff & brilliant too!

Harryoldham: is that for real about no shanties on Royal Navy ships? That's a real surprise! Discipline versus enjoyable duties? The Cat perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:00 AM

Shanties WERE sung aboard HM ships. Drunken Sailor esp. They were not in favour as work songs on larger vessels, but cutters, sloops & even brig crews used to "sing out" on occasion.
I'm with Gareth. The portrayal of "Horry" leaves a lot to be desired,
but I also like to ogle the boats!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:02 AM

I am envious. I don't want to wait but I shall.

O'Brian's stuff is too much like popcorn. His books were more like chapters. It was frustrating to have to wait a year between volumes.
Don't detract from Forester, though. The 'Captain Hornblowers' were written for the purpose of generating a script and thereby hangs an entire genre. Each of his novels is a distinct book and stands by itself. The O'Brians don't.

You might also try the Drinkwater series. Much better than the O'Brians. In addition, Woodman allowed his character to die, rather than simply stringing out the series as did O'Brian. If he hadn't died, we would still be waiting on new volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: IanC
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:08 AM

Actually, I got my daughter to video it, but I haven't seen it yet and there's already a queue.

If you're desparate, PM me your address and it'll get to you eventually.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:44 PM

We watched about half of it but it was very boring so I turned over.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:52 PM

Although I much prefer O'Brien to Forrester, these books were very much part of a much younger me. The BBC has done them fairly well. As the sailing navy is very much my 'specialist subject' I'm pleased to see that they got particular details right, like the single epaulette on Commander Hornblower's left shoulder. If it was left to Hollywood he would have been dressed as a Danish Rear Admiral! But why did he only have one lieutenant, and have to leave his command to a midshipman?

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: HuwG
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:03 PM

Les from Hull, as we all know, Standard Operating Procedures for the Royal Navy circa 1800 were adapted from those in use on the Starship USS Enterprise. These include:

From a ship with a crew of hundreds, only the Captain, Senior Specialist Officer, Doctor and Chief Engineer are considered competent to leave the ship to its own devices and go ashore;

Whoever is wearing a red shirt or uniform when forming part of a landing party, will surely come to grief;

etc.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:02 PM

As this was only a sloop, they are only entitled to an Assistant Surgeon, but they didn't even have one of them. The Captain's Steward seemed medically qualified, though.

The tradition of Disposable-Men-In-Red-Uniforms was actually started by the Royal Marines.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: My guru always said
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 07:36 AM

I don't think they had radar deflectors in those days though, did they? I'm sure I spotted one!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 07:45 AM

Romans, keep your armours
Saxons, your pyjamas
Hairy coats were meant for goats
Gorillas Yaks, retriever dogs & llamas

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 07:47 AM

OOOOOOhhhhh to have to wait for the US format! Not having cable, here, I had a pal tape the earlier ones for me, very nice! And as to the Peck version, any thing with peck, just about, is great, but I may be partial having lived near to Dunquin Dingle where his family was from. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 08:55 AM

I saw Monday's but forgot Tuesday's till we wre 3/4 through. But I'd read the book, so I had a rough idea of what I'd missed. I think the ships are excellent, and less wooden than some of the acting; and I recognised the view of Portsmouth before the caption came up. The special effects are more special than they were in the early series, although I began to wonder if I was seeing the same load of planks going up in the air every time a shot went home.

I read some of the Drinkwater books, but I didn't like them as much. Too much like 20th century people in a costume drama. I read one of Woodman's set in the Merchant Navy in WWI, and thought that it would have been a lot better without all the gratuitous four-letter words.

But Brian Callison must take the cake for the all-time crap writer of nautical fiction: Pugwash on speed!. (Runner-up Dudley Pope, but his books are fun in an Errol Flynn sort of way.)

Don't let my jaundiced opinions bias your own, BTW: go out and read 'em for yourselves; you might disagree with me.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Fiolar
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 08:57 AM

Keith A: Not "Wolfe Tone." The episodes were set in 1803/1804 and introduced the idea of a French invasion of Ireland to hang the story together. The character "Wolf" told Hornblower just before he got killed that "while he respected Hormblower, he hated and detested all the stood for." Earlier in the story another Irishman who had been a French agent in the British navy for years, killed himself. Hornblower and the Admiral covered it up because and I quote " a quarter of the navy was Irish." The same old story really. "Boney is a tyrant" and the Brits are fighting to save civilisation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 09:18 AM

I know your tongue is in your cheek Fiolar, but yes, as in WW1 and 2 when so many Irishmen again enlisted on the side of the angels.

I know that Wolf was the character's surname and that it is only fiction, but a striking coincidence if not a deliberate usage.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 10:15 AM

Perhaps I should explain.
I hesitate to post on Irish history as there are so many experts here, but perhaps they are not following this thread.
Wolfe Tone did lead a French invasion force to Ireland in 1796.
He was defeated at Bantry Bay not by HH but by bad weather.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,My Guru Always Said's husband
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 11:06 AM

NO, Wiggle... I didn't use video plus :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: HuwG
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 11:43 AM

C.S. Forester wrote a short "Hornblower" story, called "Hornblower and the Widow McCool". I saw this sold as part of a collection entitled "Hornblower and the crisis", another full-length story which Forester was unable to complete before he died.

In the "Widow McCool" story, Hornblower is a junior Lieutenant aboard HMS "Renown" under Captain Sawyer (before Sawyer does a Captain Queeg act and becomes totally paranoid), serving in the Channel fleet. The "Renown" captures a French brig, which has aboard an Irish rebel named Barry Ignatius McCool. As he is a deserter from the Royal Navy, he can be tried and hanged immediately.

In return for not trying to cause a riot among the Irish crewmen of the "Renown" (and the whole Channel Fleet) before he is hanged, McCool gets Hornblower to send his only posession, a sea chest with his name carved on it, to his widow in Dublin. McCool writes a covering letter, in which he declares himself "faithful unto death". Hornblower is unable to post these before "Renown" has to put to sea again, and as he is whiling away the hours, Hornblower reads this letter and deciphers from it the means to open the secret compartment in the chest, stuffed with money and compromising documents.

Rather than cause more distress, Hornblower tips the chest and its contents overboard. He discovers much later that McCool left no widow, and that his faith was devoted to the cause of Irish freedom.




I didn't actually see the Hornblower programmes, but it sounds as if the producers drew on this source for much of the plot.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Schantieman
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:17 PM

There was indeed an abortive French invasion of Ireland in '96 and they tried again in about 1802 I think.

I started naval historical fiction with Alexander Kent's (aka Douglas Reeman) Richard Bolitho books and still find them quite exciting if a little samey - there are only so many ways to have a battle and when you have three or four in each book...... Patrick O'Brian's Stephen Aubrey books (modelled, I believe on Lord Cochrane) have a lot more of the background politcal & romantic stuff and seem to be more highly thought of - but I sometimes find them a bit tedious.

I've only read a few Hornblower stories - perhaps I should read 'em all - but I don't think the TV films have done them justice. Granted, it's difficult to get all the details right, but it makes it hard to take it seriously when the sails are braced for a wind from the port beam and the smoke's drifting the other way! The acting was a bit variable too, I thought: Edward Pellew (played by the actor whose name I can't remember but I can't help thinking of as 'Wolfie') had a couple of brilliant scenes but fell apart at times. I think they had only one ship to do all the scenes - there aren't that many about - and some scenes were very obviously a model in a tank. Worth watching, nevertheless and I didn't realise that it was on on Tuesday as well - I was at Liverpool Folk Club.

Apparently there's a film of one (or more) of the Jack Aubrey books coming out this year. Someone called Russell Crowe as Aubrey.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:35 PM

That clinches it. It is a conspiracy. Another rebel with a wolverine name, Wolfie of the Tooting Liberation Front.
Power to the people,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,Pat Cleburne
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:55 PM

O'Brien is a better writer than Forrester.....plain and simple. Since he's passed on a kid like you should now be able to pick up with
Master and Commander and "slog your way through". Isn't it great to read about a time when the Brits had balls.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: The Walrus
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 07:21 PM

Steve,

"...Patrick O'Brian's Stephen Aubrey books (modelled, I believe on Lord Cochrane)..."

Aubrey, Ramage, Bolitho, Hornblower, they're ALL based on Cochrane.

Regards

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,Lizabee
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 07:48 PM

I'm 1/2 way through an full length audio tape of a Alexander Kent story @ the mo. It's taking awhile though Cos Dad's ended up listen to it with me, which means fitting it in when we're both about!

Fraid I watched Hornblower live so Can't help on the Vid. Dad wouldn't watch it, the inacuracys get to him being a naughtical bloke, least he didn't then have to remember which plot was which!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 03:12 AM

Harrumph! [for those who've read the H books] It's Jack Aubrey, Stephen Maturin! I really can't imagine Russell Crowe being called "Goldilocks" behind his back. And since Keith A's brought the subject up, has anyone spotted the remarkable similarity in appearance between Wolfie Smith and Admiral Pellew?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Wotcha
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 06:57 AM

I highly recommend Robert Harvey's book "Lord Cochrane: The Life and Exploits of a Fighting Captain." ALthough others have written about Cochrane, this recent book is pretty full of detail -- truth is very much stranger than fiction: not even Monty Python could have thought up a story where Bernardo ... O'Higgins (son of a Viceroy to Peru) takes the services of an out of work sea captain and helps to liberate Peru. The "Sea Wolf" as he has been called, is worthy of his own movie!

Cheers,

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 07:04 AM

So, another revolutionary Wolf!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 07:22 AM

..er...yes, sorry, Keith, NOT 'Stephen Aubrey'! I've read the first eight or so so I ought to know the characters by now!

Didn't realise that they were ALL based on Cochrane. I've read the first volume of his autobiography (imaginatively entitled 'Autobiography of a Seaman') and will get on with the second eventually - it's quite heavy going at times. The siege of Rosas crops up in one of the Aubrey books....?   Now there was an exciting episode.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: HuwG
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 09:57 AM

The original character of Hornblower may have been based on a Commodore Gordon Stewart, who led a British flotilla up the Potomac River during the Anglo-American War of 1812.

(No, he did not burn the White House; that was mainly the doing of Rear-Admiral Cockburn, a much less attractive character, though a good seaman).

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:04 AM

Just to complicate matters, Richard Sharpe got involved in a private capacity with the liberation of Peru too. A dark-haired blond Cockney North-countryman.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:10 AM

I now find that the second attempted invasion of Ireland was in 1798 (not 1802ish, as I thought) and by a force of only brigade strength. This was clearly insufficent - they were relying on the goodwill of the Irish to help 'em get across and fight the oppressing English. Wrong.

Was Rear Admiral Cockburn the one with the port business?

S.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:35 AM

The various naval history novelists used various real events to base their stories on as well as imagined events. For instance Jack Aubrey is Cochrane in the Med (Master and Commander) but Pym at Mauritius (The Mauritius Command) then back to being Cochrane again (The Reverse of the Medal). I think that it would be wrong to suggest that any of these novelists based their characters entirely on one person.

I hope they're not too accurately based on Cochrane - a brilliant and brave fighting seaman and a fine radical politician, but a bit of a nutter all the same. No respecter of authority in any form and an early proponent of poison gas! But to serve as an admiral for four different countries sets a unique record.

As to which novels are the best, that obviously depends on the reader's taste. I myself prefer Patrick O'Brien's books, although I am eternally grateful to Forester who started this interest for me. Since then I have eagerly devoured everything I could on the subject; fiction, film, TV, biography, autobiography and non-fiction alike.

Reading some of the factual accounts of actions in, say, Willaim Laird Clowes' 'The Royal Navy - a history from the earliest times to 1900', shows that the actions of Hornblower, Aubrey, Bolitho et al were not necessarily so far out of the ordinary.

Schantieman - the ship that does the film work and appeared as Hotspur is 'Grand Turk' a replica post ship. If you look at their web site you might be able to find out when she next visits a port near you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:39 AM

Yes - I saw here in Liverpool when she was here for the shanty festival last year - and the year before, I think. Couldn't remember the name.

S

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:47 AM

DonMeixner, you said you watch the films to look at the ships. Have you seen The World In His Arms? Not much of a story but great footage of two schooners racing. My father saw it when it forst came out and those scenes stayed with him. I found it for him for Christmas a couple of years ago, had to order it. I think that was a Gregory Peck film also.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:59 AM

...but what are they going to do now he's been promoted to Post Captain and gets a bigger ship?   Are there any third rates out there?

S

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: HuwG
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 01:28 PM

If I remember the Hornblower books (which incidentally were written out of sequence, so there are a few inconsistencies and errors), Hornblower's first command on being made Post-Captain, was the sloop HMS "Atropos", which was a 22-gun sloop i.e. with only one more gunport per side than HMS "Hotspur". So, a mere lick of paint will keep things fairly close to the book.

After that, things get more difficult. First, Hornblower commands the 36-gun frigate HMS "Lydia", and then the 74-gun third-rate HMS "Sutherland".

As far as I know, there are no replica frigates in existence, and certainly no ships-of-the-line (unless you count HMS "Victory", which is still on the strength of the Royal Navy (oops, nearly forgot, the USS "Constitution")


So, unless you keep Hornblower low down in seniority, or do some "Lord-of-the-Rings" forced perspective shots, Hornblower will have to sail the good ship CGI [Computer Generated Image]

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 01:56 PM

I daresay they could do interior shots in the Victory - but then they could build a set too.    Wonder what the cost and feasibility of building a line-of-battle ship would be now?! Six acres of oak woodland and considerable non-existent skills, for a start!

S

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 02:43 PM

Naemanson, yes I have. Some wonderful footage. Captains Courageous is till in mymmind the best. Captain Blood, The Sea Hawk, The Master of Ballantraye all have good shippy bits too.

The Bounty is owned by Ted Turner and was used in the recent Treasure Island. That can be CGI'd into a Frigate pretty well I'd think.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Anyone taped Mondays Hornblower?
From: GUEST,Compton
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 07:46 PM

Actually, sad that i am, I enjoyed the TWO programmes Sunday and Monday. ITV didn't make that bad a fist of it! Compared with what they show on Saturday nights...I was a BIg improvement..There's nothing like a bit of "Derring Do" on a Monday night