From Pills to Purge Melancholy

Subject: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Dave Swan
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 01:10 PM

Last week Doug I and were discussing research he'd done concerning Tom o' Bedlam. Doug had found a tune for it in our copy of Pills to Purge Melancholy. We have an eight volume set of a 1690 printing, leather bound in 1710 in near perfect condition. Doug found it in a junk shop about fifteen years ago. I think we paid $150 for it. We've gotten a great deal of use out of it, and it's a thing of beauty. We were talking about how much we've enjoyed having it over the years. Pam was in the next room listening with half an ear and asked us what trip we had taken.

What?

What trip?

We're talking about music, not travel.

No, you're not. Where's Purge Melancholy ? Aren't you talking about the trip from Pills to Purge Melancholy?

After the confusion and laughter, we decided that it sounded like a perfectly reasonable train trip in the Lake District. Leaving Pills 0900, arrive Purge Melancholy 1030.

Any others?

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Bruce O.
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 01:59 PM

Is this a hoax? The earliest known edition of 'Pills to Purge Melancholy' was I-1698 (postdated 1699), II-1700, III (lost)-1706, IV-1706, and the largest known edition was the 6 volume one of 1719-20. All known editions are indexed in Day and Murrie's 'English Songbooks: 1651-1702

The 1st half of the tune of "Tom o' Bedlam" is in 'Pills to Purge Melancholy' for two songs, one of which is "Mad Maudlin, To find my Tom of Bedlam", the other unconnected to Tom o' Bedlam.

An early copy of "Tom o' Bedlam" is in an old thread here, and an ABC of the complete tune is B467 among the broadside ballad tunes on my website: www.erols.com/olsonw

I think I noted in the old thread what I am pretty sure is the origin of the song "Tom o' Bedlam".

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Micca
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 03:41 PM

With reference to your mythical train journey, in Lincolnshire(UK) there was a road sign saying
To Mavis Enderby and
Old Bolingbroke
someone had added in large black Marker so it looked just like the sign
the gift of a son

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: MMario
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 04:06 PM

Again in reference to your mythical journey....there was a science fiction story a while back about a shangri-la type town in the English countryside --known as Loose Chippings - at the end, the protagonist leaves Loose Chippings, confident he can return following the same signs he spotted to find the town in the first place, but when he tries to return, discovers that "Loose Chippings" is the equivalent of "no shoulder" signs in the U.S.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 04:52 PM

I still want to go to Anna Valley and the Clatfords, if only to find if they are a band or not....

A road sign that intrigues me is in Portesham, Dorset. My dad used to live down this road, so it is authentic.

The sign reads 'Cemetery Road, Dead End'.....

Another one is 'Wynford Eagle', below a picture of a cow.

LTS

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From:
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 05:21 PM

Maybe we could a book on Pills to Purge New Mythology, predated of course, to make it a lost early work.

Please label BS threads BS

gargoyle's little helper elf.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 05:28 PM

Please label yourself "Obnoxious Asshole."

The most famous although non-musical one of these is located, oddly enough, just east of Lancaster, PA in the heart of the Amish country. You can travel through "Bird in Hand" to "Intercourse" and on to "Paradise." The drive takes about 20 minutes, at least a bit longer than the average short-time skivvy guy.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 05:30 PM

Maybe elf stands for Egotistical Little Fart

LTS

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 06:51 PM

If this is about original sources for traditional material, as I had formed the opinion from the first postings that it is, it is not BS. Would gg have made such a mistake?

Penny

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Lesley N.
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 06:59 PM

I was hoping that the thread was about Pills to PM - except for Bruce it doesn't appear to be. So I made the same mistake as gg and don't feel he should be castigated. I've much more interest in resources than trips - just don't want to be drawn in to them by mistake. I too would have appreciated a BS title. On the other hand Bruce's post was definitely not BS and I am glad I came.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 08:06 PM

So who castigated "gg" for anything? Bruce brought up an interesting situation regarding Dave's posting. As it does happen, a lot of BS threads swing musically and a lot of musical threads swing to BS.....I really am sick of the holier than thou attitude that seems to pervade some of these BS vs.Music opinions/discussions.

I don't always find the BS that entertaining and sometimes it is complete crap. On the other hand, some of the music threads are simply another form of BS. Somehow I always get the sense that there are some who think that scholarly bullshit is on a higher plateau than the standard, run-of-the-mill bullshit.

Bullshit.

Pat

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Lesley N.
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 08:27 PM

Excuse me? What on earth did I say to bring that on - Because I agreed with someone's opinion and defended them in a polite way? Did I say anything personally offensive? I refuse to reply in kind and I am saddened by the fact that polite disagreements and discussions are becoming so rare here. Yes, that is holier than thou - but it has nothing to do with BS or non-BS - it has to do with manners.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 08:36 PM

Well maybe I just read the whole thing wrong. Maybe not.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 08:44 PM

Driving south on I-81 from the frozen north, (Canada) there is a road sign that announces the exit for "Theresa LaFargeville". I have long wondered who Ms laFargeville was and why she has an exit ramp named for her. The NYS Thruway has Rest stop named for "Junius Ponds" who, my best guess is, may have invented cold cream.

I have reread this tread several times and I am at a loss to see where the flames began. But then I started The Corries thread and many may remember how wild that one got for seemingly no reason.

Don

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 09:13 PM

This isn't aimed at any individuals, only the topic. I am as sick of discussions about what is and isn't BS, what should and shouldn't be talked about as some folks are about reading anything that isn't limited to lyrics, tunes, books or recordings. This may in fact be the only type of BS that makes me sick to my stomach. "What is BS and Should 'X' Be Allowed" is ranked right up there with "What is Folk, and Should 'X' Be Allowed" as the most frequently occurring, unproductive, button-pushing arguments in Mudcat history. It succeeds only in causing arguments and perhaps making people feel small and unworthy. We have other folks who are so concerned with not offending easily offended individuals they label anything not directly related to song lyrics as "BS." That designation is not mandatory, and no one has a right to demand it.

Having gotten that off my chest, I do hope Dave has more to add about his book.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 09:36 PM

Well Jeri I guess that sums me up.
My new plan was to put BS designation on all my threads just to be safe.
To make myself feel better, I pretend BS stands for Banjo Student.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 11:18 PM

Bonnie,

In my case it's probably Blissfully Stupid.

I'm here because there is no place better for me to be than among musicians and singers. I'm here because i value the opinions no matter how diplomatic or stridently stated. I'm here because I have friends here. I can't imagine a day without checking in on Catspaw and Kat, Wyo and Liam, Bonnie and Art and Sandy. I want to hear the pointed rambles of Gargoyle and the gentle jibes of Alison. I want to know what mario and the Muse are thinking. These people all keep me on my toes and keep me aware.

I don't care whether its BS or strictly musical or not. It all comes round again to music anyway. What starts as music usually becomes BS...(echo, echo?) in time and visa versa.

In any case for me there is no better place for me to be. Well, only one place better but that's a ways away yet.

Don

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 11:33 PM

Mudcat Cafe, satellite home on earth, right Don?

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Nov 99 - 11:48 PM

For me. Yes.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 06:03 AM

I recently picked up a book called Sixty Ribald Songs from Pills to Purge Melancholy (by S.A.J. Bradley, published in 1967), and I'd like to know more about the original Pills to Melancholy. I guess Mudcat is no longer the appropriate place to discuss stuff like that, huh?
I suppose Dave's original post posed a bit of a problem because it led in two directions. You could look on it as a start of a discussion of Pills, which could be pretty interesting; or you could see it as a funny thread about misunderstandings. Why couldn't it be both?
I've been gone most of the last 6 weeks and I've been laying low this week because of the flu, but I've been lurking now and then. Seems there have been a lot of harsh words exchanged lately. I wish that wouldn't happen.
There's something wrong here, and it's been wrong all year. I wish we could figure out an amicable solution.
I guess I'm one of those who likes to have a beer or two and a little conversation and joke around a bit, but I come mostly to listen to the band. It really bugs me when the cocktail chatter gets so loud I can't hear the music. I know those of you on your fourth martini don't understand, but I've been having a lot of trouble hearing the band around here lately.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 08:01 AM

Joe, thanks for your posting about the 60 Ribald Songs from PPM. I was also somewhat puzzled, but thanks to Bruce I now assume that this an extract from the much older work. I'll be keen to find out.

Lesley and Bruce - good to see that you're both alive and hopefully well. Regards, John

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 10:08 AM

Joe, thanks for that wonderful picture of listening to a band in a noisy surrounding. That's how I feel sometimes too, lately.
Catspaw and Liz, don't you think you have overreacted in calling elf (who may or may not be gargoyle) "obnoxious asshole" and "egotistical little fart" when all s/he wrote was "please label BS threads BS"? Elf may have been wrong in this case, you may disagree with the wish, but I think you'd better not respond to a wish with a personal attack.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 10:37 AM

"I guess Mudcat is no longer the appropriate place to discuss stuff like that, huh?." Nice sarcastic cut. Yeah, Joe - a lot of harsh words exchanged lately.

Honestly, If people discussed the topic of BS and the forum with a little more consideration for other folks' feelings, it wouldn't be as much of anger-inspiring issue. If people stopped trying to say their opinions were more important and more right that others', they might not get to vent, but they'd probably get more cooperation. Art did that (well, after venting) in Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately. I noticed a significant increase in the music threads and a decrease in the BS. Count 'em, Joe. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems when people just tell others what they should be writing about and try to make them feel stupid if they don't conform, there's a huge BS backlash. So logical or not, it may be the way the problem is discussed that's provoking some of it.

And the comment about the argument making me sick to my stomach - I hate the attitude of "my way is the only right way." (Especially when it involves making rules about a forum owned and operated by someone else.) I hate a climate where people are made to feel insecure enough ("is somebody going to slam me for saying this") that they tiptoe around or are afraid to even post.

With respect, and hoping for a less righteous, more reasonable discussion,
Jeri

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Bruce O.
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 10:53 AM

The 1719-20 edition appeared in 6 volumes appeared under two titles, 'Songs, Pleasant and Divertative', and under the same title as all previous editions, 'Wit and Mirth: Or, Pills to Purge Melancholy'. This was reprinted in 1876 and from that comes the reprint of 1959, bound as three volumes. There are over 1100 songs and poems (mostly songs) with tunes for almost all songs.

Unfortunately one of the few songs with no tune, or directions to find one, is D'Urfey's "The Moderator's Dream" in Vol. 2. This has the tune direction "Chimney Sweep", which is from "Jack Hall" and used for "Captain Kidd"

The first posting here is most assuredly a hoax, unless they found a new one of Thomas J. Wise's 'pre-first edition' forgeries.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: GeorgeH
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 10:54 AM

Well, when Joe wrote "I suppose Dave's original post posed a bit of a problem because it led in two directions" it gave me a chuckle, 'cause it seems to me life's rather like that, too! So thanks, Joe, for a ray of light in an often bad-tempered thread . .

G (just dropping back in briefly . .)

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Dave Swan
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 11:44 AM

Wow

With apologies to anyone who thought I had attempted a hoax, perhaps we were taken by a forgery (although I know that the test contained in our version matches other editions I've seen) or, more likely, I've misremembered the dates over the years and Doug will join others in flogging me for being an ignorant boob. This will not be a first for me. So no hoax, likely dummy.

I had humbly hoped to begin a thread which might lead in several directions including music and misunderstanding, as Joe was able to discern.

Perhaps we can let this crawl under the porch and die.

Subject: Pills to Purge Melancholy & Sick Cats
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 11:49 AM

Well, I was going to add that Dave's original message was a classic example of the light, intelligent humor that was once a trademark of Mudcat. There isn't much of that any more - or at least it's hard to find amidst all the garbage we've seen here lately.
Jeri, I don't think I'm being self-righteous. This is something I'm really concerned about, and I've tried my best to be very diplomatic in expressing my concern. I'm dismayed that the Mudcat I once loved is not such a nice place to visit any more. During the last year, it seems the 'Cat has been taken over by a small clique of very prolific, possibly compulsive posters who post long messages that tell the same inside jokes over and over again. While the number of music threads may be in reasonable proportion, you'll notice that few of those threads are ever very long.
I know the offenders don't understand my point and they don't mean to do any harm, so I don't know how to deal with the problem. This used to be a place where you could come for intelligent conversation and intelligent humor, for real human communication. Now it's like a wild cocktail party, with everybody talking on the surface. The light humor and the gentle, intelligent discussion tend to get crowded out by all the raucous stuff. I suppose the party-goers stop every once in a while and wonder why others left early, but I don't think they'll ever understand. Think a moment, and you'll notice that many long-time regulars have left during the last year, most without any drama or announcement. They just don't feel at home here any more now that the party crowd has moved in.
I don't think rules work in a place like this, but I suppose if I were to make etiquette rules for Mudcat, I might suggest these:

- Treat everyone with friendliness and respect.
- If something seems offensive, assume that the other person didn't mean to offend.
-If you have something interesting to say, say it.
-If you have nothing to say, don't feel compelled to say anything.
-If you said it before, maybe you don't need to say it again.

I guess somebody could point an accusing finger at me on that last one huh? Anyhow, I don't think it's self-righteous people who have been voicing complaints about the tone of Mudcat, and labeling it self-righteousness is a cheap shot. It's a definite problem - many people just don't feel as comfortable here as they once did. I realize that talking about a problem can often make it worse, but sometimes I just have to take a stand to defend the shy, gentle people who once felt at home here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: BSer
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 12:42 PM

Oh, I thought Dave Swan was just trying to see how much too low Barnum's estimate was.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Dale Rose
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 12:46 PM

Joe is completely right. I just wish I were articulate enough to express how I feel about all of this. Maybe I will start working on it. I just checked ~~ I have posted 832 messages since April of 1997. I won't say that ALL of my posts have been about music, but the majority have been. I would like to think that for the most part they have been helpful to some and offensive to none. The Mudcat is no longer nearly as much fun as it once was. I have resisted posting to the controversial threads for fear of being trashed. Well, go ahead while I continue to work on that articulate response.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: BSer
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 12:57 PM

That handle is not the one I use in contributing to the database and information on the Forum. How about posting Joe's response in a thread of it own, and adding a plea to people to stop adding irrelevant comments and inane wit to information threads, and label BS threads as BS, so the ones that want information on folk music and blues don't have to waste so much time trying to find it, then have to sort out fact from fiction?

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 02:43 PM

Joe, you have expressed this issue very well and I feel it would be beneficial if all the Mudcatters would read your latest posting.
Bonnie

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 02:55 PM

To add my 2cents:

Organizations often go through some predictable phases.

A group starts, with a fair amount of hegemony.

a)Group wants to expand, because it needs fresh blood, but tries to retain the same character.

b) Group decides it wants to stay the same.

c) Group throws open the doors to any and all: open invitation.

b) scenario will inevitably die; it is ingroupy and snobbish. "purists," etc.

c) will mutate so much the group it not what it once was, and originals are dismayed, and drop out.

a) scenario is a healthy organization, with the proper creative tension and a constant dialectic process between old and new.

Mudcat is the best exmaple of a) I've ever seen.

I've known one artists collective and one Morris Dance group where newbies took over and kicked out the founders, creating unbelievable permanent ill will.

I was a newbie in a folk club where the originals could be downright unpleasant, just because someone wasn't an old timer. It died an ugly death.

Let's continue the conversations we want to hold; I think I'm goingtogo start a thread on the NPR segment covering Jenny Armstrong, and her daughters Susanna and Georgia Rose Armstrong-Park.

MAG

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: lamarca
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 03:08 PM

I, too, am troubled by the name-calling - for another current example you need only read some of the responses to Watching grass grow. The initial thread poster was deliberately trolling for flames, got a few reasonable responses, and an assortment of rude remarks.

Why do we feel so defensive, or feel the need to publicly call someone an "asshole" for criticizing one side or the other? I enjoy babbling with friends on some threads, and trying to be Ms. Music Reference Librarian on others. I guess I would add my plea to frame our disagreements over substance, not personalities. Try also to read hasty responses through the lens of this quote:

"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity..."

If someone posts "I don't like BS threads because...and lists their reasons, is it a reasonable response to post back "Yeah, and your sister swims out to meet troop ships!"? Count to 10 (or 30...or even 100) before firing back your response to someone who has struck a nerve. Now behave, or I'm going to send you all out for a "Time Out" in the corner!

P.S. Good to see you back, Joe!

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Lesley N.
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 05:03 PM

Wolfgang, Joe, Dale, larmarca - you have been pills to purge my melancholy. I am postively giddy at not being a lonely voice! And I am even more giddy at the thought of a 1959 reprint of the true pills that I can try to track down! I just found a reprint of Chappell and am like a hog in mud.. well, make that a mermaid in water - a much better and appropriate images - I'd like to think....

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 06:53 PM

97-98-99-100..............Well alright!!!! Personally I'm as happy as a hog in mud (yes, I know its apppropriate) that everyone is happy. I guess everyone has felt supported by differing responses, as it should be.

Now, may I point out that the only minor point left is an apology to Dave Swan for calling him a "hoax." He is most assuredly real and would not have stated something of this order he didn't believe was true. Although it was an interesting point brought up regarding authenticity, do you really think that Dave Swan was trying to put something over here? Or is it that you don't know who he is and simply figured he was a passer-by having a prank of sorts?

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: wildlone
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 08:45 PM

LTS, I used to live in Portesham, yes the cemetary is still a dead end.
Wynford Eagle is a small village with a fine manor house which used to belong to the Sydenham family one of which was Dr Thomas Sydenham known as the English Hypocrates.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Micca
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 09:21 PM

You know speaking as a newcomer some of these thread contents where people are talking about how the Mudcat is changeing and how (some) would wish for it to be a serious academic music discussion board reminds me of the old Joke
"How many Folk musicians does it take to change a lightbulb"
" 6, 1 to change the lightbulb, 2 to sing about how good the old one was, and 3 to complain that its electric"
While apppreciating that change is not always for the good, it is inevitable, and if people are being "scared off" by "changes" that is regrettable. I feel I've been made very welcome and am making new friends already. I can only marvel at the depth of knowledge around me here, but in the end what one choses to read is personal taste and of the wide range available one has to make selections. I rarely dip into the gaelic language threads for various reasons but I would not assume to tell others that these threads should be removed to a place where they cease to bother me. We move forward, hopefully with care and courtesy towards our fellow Mudcatters, within the ettiquet guidelines laid down by Joe. However forward is where we are going, things will never be as they were,the only trouble with nostalgia is, it is not what it was.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Nov 99 - 09:44 PM

Wildlone, where in Portesham? Did you know the Half Moon pub? Who are you really??

I once met Lord Wynford, an army veteran who lost an arm for king and country, he walked out of a playgroup carol concert (Average age 3 years old) because we sang 'O Christmas Tree' to the tune which became 'The International', try explaining that to 3 year olds.....!

LTS who is an ELF herself sometimes, so there!

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 12:52 AM

I have been gone for the most part of a month, and will be gone for most of the next. It is funny as hell to see that we are still rehashing this. Would someone please start a thread on the definition of "folk music". Oops, sorry Obi-Wan, I didn't mean to start an inside joke. LOL.

Big Mick

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Gary T
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:05 AM

Shouldn't that be "foke music"? BG (See thread titled "lyric clarify if you didn't get it.)

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:10 AM

Glad that thought crossed someone else's mind Gary!! I think Kat is now spelling it "Phoak."

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Gary T
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:17 AM

Yeah, but look at how she spells "cat".

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:28 AM

Geez, good point man.........How could I have fallen for such a such a thing? I'm so ashamed.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:49 AM

When I first saw this thread, it looked like the perfect place to post the announcement that I was three days into a cold-turkey withdrawal from Zoloft. Then I got interested, first in the discussion of the collection, then in "Gargoyle's elf" complaining that the thread wasn't labeled B.S.--before I had read Catspaw's message I was thinking how much I hated the B.S. designation and my determination never to use it in a thread title again unless commenting on fertilizer of a bovine origin, and my response was much the same as Catspaw's, but I came here much too late to beat Spaw to the punch--and, I'm rather certain, I would have equivocated a bit more than Spaw did--I might have commented that Gargoyle doesn't have elves--Santa he ain't, and please take your B.S. and spread it on your strawberries (I prefer sugar and whipped cream on mine).

As things moved along and we got back to the tired old argument about what was happening to the Mudcat and came to remarks about the hostile attitude that seems to rear its ugly head from time to time, I wanted to scream that execpt for transitory political arguments that turned tendentious and postings from occasional hit-and-run flamers, the bad feelings which have driven some away from here originated with {one of} those who wanted to exclude all content which failed to meet their standard of acceptability. Admittedly, some of us who were targets of the hostility returned it, but to blame the changed atmosphere of the Mudcat on people who enjoy the company of others here as well as the music we share is the real bull shit.

--seed

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Bruce O.
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:55 AM

Big Mick, there were discussions of what are folk music and traditional music long ago on this Forum. The problem is there is no authority to enforce any majority decision, so everybody defines it to be the area they know most about. This is not by any means unprecidented. This is a major area of conflict in accademia.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 02:23 AM

Bruce,

I am a long time poster on the 'Cat and the keeper of the fertility rites, and a leader in the Gang of Seven which now numbers in the hundreds. It was an attempt at humor, tongue in cheek speech.........and it is spelled "u-n-p-r-e-c-e-d-e-n-t-e-d".............

Big Mick

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Lesley N.
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 07:03 AM

It isn't the BS/non-BS discussion that is my major issue of concern - it's the the manner in which discussions are increasingly held. If it were one person that would be easy to ignore, but it's not an aberration. It is not only becoming acceptable to be rude, it is becoming common enough for me to feel there is a shift in the cat's general tone. The reason I began to post at mudcat was because it WASN'T like newsgroups. The reason I stayed is because I felt it was a place that welcomed everyone, especially the new and the inexpert, encouraged their interest and participation, and nurtured their growth. I wanted to be part of that. Would that be how I characterize the cat now? Certainly not in comparison.

What can be done about it? Nothing. This is the internet. But allow me my melancholy.

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 07:42 AM

Leslie, in my experience the Mudcatters have been extremely encouraging. Whenever I create a Thread asking about anything I get a flood of help offered with enthusiasm and kindness.
Once in awhile I may feel bad by someone's remarks, but I try to let that person know, or some other Catter will come around to comfort me, offer a 'boo boo strip' and tell that bully to go away.

I even get guidance when I'm way too sensitive, right Catspaw.

The Mudcatters are an amazing bunch of people and no matter how cloudy it gets around here the brilliance and good-heartedness always shines through.

Hi Big Mick, was wondering where you were. I don't quite understand Keeper of the Fertility. Does that have anything to do with Charle's interest in bovine fertilizer?

Banjo Bonnie

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 09:45 AM

See there you go...this place is educational. Mick I had no idea it was spelled that way. "Course I'm so gawd dum damn, why, I got no swave atall. I thought it was "unpresidented" like in the Reagan years.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Pills to Purge Melancholy
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Nov 99 - 01:15 PM

Jeez, that's what happens when you get busy for a few days. I dropped in here to share a bit about growing up in the small town of Baie D'Urfey Quebec (a very ancient part of the "new world") and to ruminate (probably pointlessly) on what a kick it was to become aware of my town's tenuous connection to ballad history,....and I discover...major conflict.
I can handle a couple of small skirmishes, 'cause that's what brings spice to the "cat", but another long, "oh so sincere", "there's something terribly wrong here, and it's been going on for the LAST YEAR!" Jeezus, talk about pouring gasoline on a lit match! If you REALLY want to go through this again, start a new thread, name the people you want out of here, and take the heat (like Art did)
Fooey, I'm going back to the "ragtime guitar", "finding other musicians to play with", and "performance anxiety"(about stage fright) threads.

Rick