opinions on seagull guitars

Subject: opinions on seagull guitars
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 07:42 PM

Seagulls are handmade in Quebec. Rather salty and inexpensive but very nice sound. I'm looking for some players who might have strummed one or two before and would like to voice opinions on my possible upcoming purchase. Whatcha think of 'em? No Seagull Guitars sales reps answer please. ps - looking specifically at the 'S' series S6+folk cedar top

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 07:49 PM

Several threads on Seagull may interest you. Type seagull into the filter box and set the refresh at 2 years and you'll get them. Here's one.

Spaw

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Morticia
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 07:50 PM

Gosh, Spaw beat me to it by 30 seconds :)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 08:18 PM

thanks Spaw... (no thanks to you Morticia, too little too late *LOL*) I got all the info I need and more. I'm satisfied. I'm hooked. I think my wallet just got a little lighter. But we'll keep this thread running in case someone out there wants to talk me out of my purchase By the way, my main guitar is a Norman, which is a higher quality brand from the same company. I didn't even know that. I should be a damn sales rep for these guys. Again, thanks

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 08:56 PM

Ummm... BJM?? Question...

salty??

huh?

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 11:33 PM

I've been playing Seagulls exclusivly for about 13 years I guess... with the exception of a loaner Tac, that while I was glad it was around when I needed it, I couldn't get rid of that shelacked POS fast enough...

My most recent Seagull addition has been an A Series Mahogany folk... Duet II pickup... and I like it so much for DADGAD playing that I'll probably blow the St Pats Day money on another one for standard tuning...

I think most seagulls are a steal at twice the price...

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 11:50 PM

They're good, and they're very low priced for what you get. Thoroughly recommended.

- LH

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:22 AM

What exactly is a salty guitar? You're supposed to play them, not lick them.

Alex

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:31 AM

that was my question too, MT

;-)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:32 AM

From the eight or nine I've played, I'd say the sound quality was certainly similar to most Martins, and perhaps a bit fuller than some Taylors. I found them vastly superior to Takomas and Takamines (soundwise) Two of them that I worked on had serious intonation problems, with slightly misplaced nuts.

I'd have to say that as far as an inexpensive solid top guitar goes, if you get the right one, you might never want to upgrade. Check the tuning though.

Rick

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:39 AM

And a fine question it is, too, Clinton!

PS love my Seagull. Looking forward to buying a new one soon if the water heater doesn't break!

Alex

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 07:14 AM

My Seagull is also the first guitar I've ever had that fit my body. It's a smaller model (can't remember which- I'll check later)and it's just right! Solid spruce top, and yes, Rick, I do have to check the tuning more than my friend does with her Gibson, but hey, I can do that!)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Learchild
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 10:35 AM

I love my seagull, its a dreadnought size which is really to big for me but I wouldn't part with her - full body beautiful sound. In DADGAD she sings, no problem with the stability of the sound it remains true but I've a light touch and am used with finger picking style. They don't turn up for sale very often in the U.K. now.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: JohnB
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 10:57 AM

I looked around a lot last year for a new Guitar, actually I have been looking for a few years. Had a good excuse to buy one. Tried Larivees, Taylors, Martins, also a couple of custom built jobs, mostly in the $1000+ (Can) range. Probably liked the Martins best, almost bought one made by Peter Cox, who's guitars are getting better and better. I just could not bring myself to part with that much money for the level of my playing. Played and bought a second hand Seagull with a solid spruce top for 350 inc hard case. Very happy with it. It helps me play more than my earlier pretty crappy guitars, the more I play the better I get, maybee I will buy that Martin one day. JohnB

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clifton53
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 11:37 AM

I bought an S6 recently, second-hand from a friend of mine. It is a fine guitar and sounds nice and full, although for some reason my thumb has to reach a bit further to hit the low E than on my Gibson. But this is a minor annoyance considering the value in these guitars.

Clifton53

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:02 PM

I have read and enjoy this forum but only once enjoined in any conversation. I don't want my ignorance to show..but I have a couple of questions to ask the community. I assume that most of you are consider yourselves folk musicians. There seem to be many inquiries back and forth concerning different instruments, usually factory made opposed to handmade instruments.With the exception of garage bands in the60's, I haven't played on in front of people, but I do play every day.I know musicians, espically those not playing TOP 40 stuff,don't make the best money, but play more because they like the music.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:07 PM

I am sorry-- I haven't finished-- I'm not very computer savy and I sent the message before I was thru. My questions are(1) why do folk musicians not own/ buy good handmade instruments, .. is it because of the price, or the fact that individual makers may not be known, or what?Thanks-

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:08 PM

I am sorry-- I haven't finished-- I'm not very computer savy and I sent the message before I was thru. My questions are(1) why do folk musicians not own/ buy good handmade instruments, .. is it because of the price, or the fact that individual makers may not be known, or what?Thanks-

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:15 PM

Most of my hero's, (Guys like Garnet Rogers, James Keelaghan, Donn Ross, and Stepehen Fearing) DO own good handmade instruments... and I think I do as well, as seagull ARE handmade... and are very good guitars...

Althought, one day I hope to put my order in to Grit Laskin... to get onto that 5 year waiting list... Lack of sufficient funds is all that's stoping me right now...

;-)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:29 PM

Hi Frustrated,

Price may be a large part of it. Also peer [preesure believe it or don't. Lazinessw? Heard a Martin that sounded good so all Martin's must sound good so why search further.(Faulty logic there ofcourse) The thousand dollar wall may be an issue. Anything over agrand anymore is a real major outlay of cash and hand made guitars are rare within that price ceiling.

About half the working musicians I know save there nice toys to play with at home and look for road tools to take to gigs. I won't subject my 30 year old Martin or my 40 year old Guild to the rigors of road work. I will take my soulless Ovation out however.

Some people like me have very serious neck or body size requirements (Animaterra) an we could definately benefit by having a guitar made by a skilled luthier but for me cost is the issue.

I imagine the reasons will vary for everyone. Fear of the unknown may play a part in it too. How do I know a hand made $1500.00 Eversharp will last as well as a name brand of the same price like a GuildGibsonMartin which have known track records.

Regards

Don

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:40 PM

Hi Guitarmaker. A lot of times it's simply because the independant builders aren't known except to their friends and customers.

Two folks I've tried to plug as often as I can, are Glen Reid from Burk's Fall Ontario, and Peter Cox from Barrie Ontario. They both build fine sounding instruments at reasonable prices.

Both Jean Larrivee and Mr. Godin (father of the Quebec guitar industry...Seagulls, Simon and Patrick etc.) obviously had good marketing skills to go along with their building skills.

Are your instruments on the web somewhere.

Rick

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:41 PM

I wasn't saying any thing against Seagull. Guitars made in factory situation assembled"by hand" aren't what I am talking about. In a factory situation, an individual piece of wood, the top for instance, cannot be "voiced" the braces shaved, depending on the stiffness of that individual top,because of the time necessary to do that process.I am asking about guitars,such as Grit Laskin makes opposed to a factory assembled (hand assembled,I agree)instruments. The few Seagull guitars I have seen were well made,clean, playable instruments the intonation was good, but those I have inspected were made of laminated material(plywood). Again I am not trying in any way to take away anything from Seagull, and qualify everything I said based on those few Seagull's I have had my hands on.

Subject: picking seagull nits ;-)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:53 PM

Lemme pick a nit there FGM... Seagull only makes backs and sides out of Laminated hardwood... and there's a difference between that and plywood... a subtile but important difference... And the 3 way lamination they use makes for good strong back and sides...
The laminated back and sides don't matter half so much as a solid top, where sound quality is concerned... and all seagull Guitars have solid tops...
So I go Seagull, because they have nice features as above and do cost 5 grand like a Laskin does...
But like I said, I'm just picking nits...

;-)

Subject: picking seagull nits ;-)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:53 PM

Lemme pick a nit there FGM... Seagull only makes backs and sides out of Laminated hardwood... and there's a difference between that and plywood... a subtile but important difference... And the 3 way lamination they use makes for good strong back and sides...
The laminated back and sides don't matter half so much as a solid top, where sound quality is concerned... and all seagull Guitars have solid tops...
So I go Seagull, because they have nice features as above and don't cost 5 grand like a Laskin does...
But like I said, I'm just picking nits...

;-)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 12:55 PM

GODAMN FRIGGN USLESS MESSAGE BOARD!!!!!!!

If a mod comes by can they delete this post and the first of the repeats above please...

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:04 PM

The durability of an instrument is very vital I guess - I know I would cringe at the thought of someone spilling beer all over an instrument I created in some club, so the instrument you use on the road - that ovation - maybe is the best choice. I am primilarly talking about accoustic guitars. As to the durability, how a guitar will hold up,if a guitar is made out of solid wood(opposed to ply) it is going to have to be treated more carefully than a solid body guitar or a laminated accoustic instrument.Today I see cases that are close to $500.00-- those by Amaritage for instance. I think all of you musicians would supprise yourselves if you takd the time to locate individuals who build instruments. Many of the share some of your traits-- If I understand things from a folk musicians point of view:(1) you play what music you like rather than top 40's stuff(2)you peobably work cheaper because you won't play anything like some lounge organ player -- you do it because you love what you do-- I think that's the comparison I am trying to make-- Handmade instruments are in many cases, superior to factory made stuff, the tone balance, attention to detail,voicing, the finish. Handmade instruments are more tempremential, but I've never seen or met a musician who wasn't tempremental-- it comes with the territory

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:13 PM

The entire instrument whether it be the top. the back the sides the thickness of an individual top,is all a big factor in the tone the guitar makes. The sides and back do play a lesser roll in the tone but they definately make a big difference in an instrument. Plywood is stronger but so is the back of an ovation,( hybred fiberglass or whatever the HUEY chopper blades were made from from the 60's--wasn't that Mr Kamans(of ovation fame) original material for the back/side bowl of the ovation? And again those Seagulls I saw had laminated tops. They were still very good playable well built, but they were made on an assembly line process of some sort, and wouldn't ,tone wise, compare to a good handmade instrument

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:17 PM

LOL!!

Good point there FGM...

But -I- cannot afford to drop the kind of $$ that most 'handmade' guitars that I've seen cost...

And as was mentioned above, my class of gigs doesn't warrent it either... hell, my class of gigs doesn't really warrent the Seagulls I play, but I like 'em so I bring 'em out...

;-)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:20 PM

Laminated hardwood is plywood no matter what you choose to call it. It has it's purpose, and I agree it isn't as subject to the weather changes that a solid wood instrument is, I used to buy hardwood plywood when I build hammer dulcimers and folk harps, but I didn't use it on the upper end instruments. Again I am not taking anything away from the Seagull guitars I have played and I am not insulting anybodys guitar.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:29 PM

The Seagulls that I have played have generally been well-made, good-sounding and excellent value guitars. I would, however as a guitar repairer in a previous century, agree with frustratedguitarmaker's comments above. The back and sides do, to an extent, affect the sound. Witness the endless debates here regarding mahogany vs. rosewood and other woods! A solid wood back/sides will sound different to plywood or laminated. That is taking nothing away from Seagulls though. For the price they are very good IMHO. All the Seagulls I've seen recently have had solid tops. As someone said above, it is important to check the intonation as with any factory assembed guitar, as mistakes and shortcuts can occur.

Also just to sit in the shop or wherever and play the guitar uninterrupted for a good while as the sound is a very personal thing. The most expensive is also not necessarily the best.

Peace

mcmoo

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:34 PM

One last question: Guitars,(musical instruments)are tools to musicians. As working musicians,where do you take your instrument when it breaks or has to have fret work done or when the neck needs resetting? These are at least two things all guitars or other fretted instruments will at some point in their lifetime have to have preformed if they are played.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:38 PM

All laminates are indeed plywood, but plywoods are not all laminates and I'll pick that nit. From a standpoint of structural integrity and all, they have their use. On HD's for instance, regardless of the quality (top of line or not), a high quality laminate makes a far better back than any solid hardwood.

There are a ton of independent luthiers as you know and a lot are known here, some have been mentioned. Some have better marketing skills such as Taylor and Larrivee and have turned their products into far more of a business. And while a lot of people would like to own one of the handmade "greats"....price and time don't often permit such a purchase.

Spaw

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 01:59 PM

I agree that plywood is a better choice for the back of a hammer dulcinmer, but not because of the tone, but because of the structural reasons. That is not the case with guitars,mandolins,not jsut my opinion either.As to the difference in making guitars or marketing guitars, I would much prefer to make guitars myself, one at a time, individually, for an individual and apply my skill to a particular instrument,than to have my name on them, be setting behind a desk, being sure the bills were paid on time, concerned with all the employee regulations the government requires and all of that stuff that makes him(Mr. Taylor) a business owner and no longer a maker. Do you think,with the excpetion of the money they make, that Mr Taylor is still a maker in the sense of making guitars?His neck to body joint has changed lots of folks minds regarding the production of guitars, but that itself in part is from a production standpoint--that neck/body joint is basically a bolt on configutation-- lots of people including individual makers use that neck/body joint fro easier repairs later--

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 02:28 PM

Where do I take my guitar? Up to Jay at Custom Guitar... the best, highest praised repair guy in Windsor...

;-)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 04:03 PM

I think of myself as a folkie and I got some good one-of-a-kind guitars which I have plugged here before. They're built by Marc Beneteau in St. Thomas Ontario. Like others here I have tried many other instruments from builders big and small from around the world and I would put my guitars up against the best of them.

That said, I also had the cash when I bought them. I don't now, and hands down I would buy Seagulls if I was to do it all today. First, I like to buy Canadian because I am Canadian. Second, I like to buy quality, playability, and good sound. Third, for the price nothing else approaches the first two criteria. That's all the reason I need. Period.

I've been considering a Seagull lately as one I could use as a backup/experimental tuning/lesson instrument.

Buy one.

Mooh.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 04:13 PM

You guys have been great help. And, hey Frustrated, I'd say marketing is a lot of the problem with indy handcrafters. Consider my position. I'm off to buy a Seagull only because it was at the store and yours wasn't. Unless I have easy access to a handcrafted model I don't know about it. That and the fact that some of the 'crafters' I've played were weekend-in-the-basement kind of jobs that weren't worth a G-chord. Serious crafters must have it tough. But for now I'm going to stick with my 'salty' Seagull.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 05:35 PM

Frustrated,

I guess all things being equall, quality ofconstruction and materials, appointments, case, finish, warranty, et al... The price is the big issue. Can you competitively build a 00 size guitar or mahagony and spruce with an ebony bridge and finger board and stay in the Guild/Gibson price range. I know I'm putting you on the spot but it does appear to come down to that.

Don

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: GUEST,Jeff M.
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 06:01 PM

So now I'm totally confused. Frustrated, Rick and a couple of others have offered you a chance to tastefully let us know about your own wares, but you don't seem interested. Isn't this kind of illustrating why people buy from makers they've heard of. I know some Mudcatters have discovered Peter Cox through this forum.

Jeff

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Gary T
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 06:29 PM

Jeff M., I too would like to hear more about Frustrated's eneavors, but in all fairness, we don't know that he's not interested in telling us. He may have held back from touting his wares at first out of a respectful avoidance of crassly exploiting the Mudcat. And now, we have no way of knowing when or if he's revisiting this thread. Let's give it some time.

Frustrated, how about filling us in on what you provide, typical charges, etc.? Thanks.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 06:57 PM

If you play heavy, watch out for the stabiity of a Seagull's "B"

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: frustratedguitarmaker
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 07:59 PM

I don't work in my basement, but I do work from a single car garage in my backyard.I don't make guitars for a living, in fact I can only work on building a couple of nights and the weekendswhen I don't have chores to do. Only in recent years have I have been interested in building for as long as I can remember. I built my first instrument in 1977. I built dreadnaught sized guitars for years, until about three years ago. I had the opportunity to do some repair work on an old beautifully inlaid turn of the century parlor sized slott peghead 12 fret neck brazilian rosewood back and side Washburn guitar, but unfortunately, its top was ladder braced and was failing(caving in front of the bridge/pulling up behind, a fairly typical problem on old guitars, and it needed a neck reset. I rebraced the top on that guitar in the traditional martin X brace style, reset the neck, rebound the back, finished the entire guitar in McFadden nitrocellulose laquer( it is the best I have ever used). I did a second parlor sized guitar for the same man and then one of my friends found another Washburn and I did the same for him.

Those guitars turned my opinion around and from then on I have concentrated my efforts toward smaller bodied 12 fret slot peg headed parlor guitars, because they are in my opinion, the most beautifully preportioned guitars ever to have been built,and most importantly,they sound good all thru their scale. In case some of you don't know what an old washburn looks like, they were similar in size to an "0" sized Martin . At the risk of taking advantage of this forums hospitality, I won't go into any specific price, but I can build a high quality, mahog/red spruce w/hardshell case for under $1000.00 not much, but under. Some out there would call me an amateur, and I guess I am. I understand correctly, the word "AMATEUR" has its origin in the word "amour" which means "to love". I'm sure if I am wrong about the origins of "amateur" some onewill point it out.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 10:45 PM

I own 6- and 12-string Seagulls and am quite pleased with both.

Peter Cox showed up at the annual filk convention in Toronto last year; his instruments are gaining popularity in the filk community up there. I may well be looking to acquire an octave mandolin or bouzouki from him (almost did last year, and that was without the big end-of-year bonus I got).

-- Gary

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 04 Feb 01 - 11:30 PM

I like the stuff I understood Frustrated. (some of your comparisons and stuff went right over my super-amateur head) The main reason I started looking at Seagull was because it offered the small body styles – not parlour, but not Gibson Jumbo either, and because they are in my price range (read: inexpensive). One of these days, with some money from my future world-famous folk career (titter-titter), I will invest in something a little more homegrown and call it my own.

PS to Richard Bridge: I tend to thump the body for percussion from time to time. You've got me worried I'm going to put my fist right through my future-new guitar.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 12:38 AM

BJM... I 'percuss' on my Seagulls alot as well, and they have stood up quite well under the strain!

;-)

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 02:24 AM

Salty?

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From:
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 06:16 AM

I bought a Seagull S6 Folk guitar about 4 years ago. I own martins and Gibsons, which I love, but the Seagull is the most amazing little guitar. It sounds great and seems to be very well constructed. I have mine fitted with a Baggs Dual Source pick-up system and its very rare to have any problems with feedback. The only criticism might be the "soft" cedar top. After one weekend at the Walnut valley Flatpickin' Championships, I had dug a pretty good groove in the top where a pickguard would be. For the money it is the best guitar available, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: GUEST,skarpi at work
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 07:28 AM

Hallo all, as I have said before I have a segull guitar a duo mable type, it is fine guitar but I have had some proplem with strings some are good others are horr..... I am gonna get me a new segull 12 stringer, and i hope that he be just a good one like first one. all the best skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 12:57 PM

Glad to hear lots of good comments about Peter Cox's guitars. I very nearly bought one just last year. What I have not seen mentioned is that he uses a completely differnet approach. He hand carves the front and back from a block that starts out about 1" thick. So he uses little or even no bracing. His pricing is about the $1000 to $1500 Canadian range. Don't know how he does it for the price. I think I should buy mine soon, as his name grows the prices are sure to go with it eventually. JohnB

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 01:30 PM

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's the price, stupid!"

Salty?

Subject: RE: opinions on seagull guitars
From: DougR
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 01:37 PM

Frustrated: As far as I know, every "pro" was an amateur first. You sure sound to me (who knows nothing about guitar making)as though you know what you are doing, and love what you are doing. I think Rick tossed you a pretty good hint. If you don't have a website, get one! If you are really interested in getting orders, go to where the musicians congregate and take some examples of your work.

I almost skipped tuning in to this thread because I thought it might just be one of those "what do you think of ...), but I'm glad I read it. Turned out to be very interesting.

DougR