Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Iains Date: 12 May 18 - 04:37 AM Not just Israel carrying out unprovoked illegal attacks in Syria. but also the UK. The UK drones are releasing thermobaric weapons that have a brisance sufficient to cause severe internal organ damage. https://dronewars.net/2018/05/02/mod-accidentally-reveals-british-drones-firing-thermobaric-missiles-in-syria/ https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/65789/israel-now-faces-new-rules-of-engagement-in.html |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 May 18 - 06:46 AM Jim, I assume you are not going to provide evidence of my anti-Semitism Be careful Jim. You have likened Israel to Nazi Germany. That is now recognised as anti-Semitic. You may not accept that definition, but it is accepted by the authorities (and the Labour Party.) |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 07:12 AM " You have likened Israel to Nazi Germany." So have many thousand Jews - including high ups in the Israeli establishment I realise, of course that these are "non Jew" Jews and "self- loathers", so maybe their wrord doesn't count in Benjamin Netanyahu's 'Brave New Israel' I have never intentionally described Israel as such - just the bunch of Nazis who run it Redefining words to suit political policy and attempting to rob people who oppose that policy of theiir cultural identity is the classic Nazism that filled the oven of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belzen It's you who should be careful because this is the shit you have broken your arse to support Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 07:16 AM In the present climate of Israeli political extremism the only possible workable definition of Antisemitism is the persecution and denigration of the Jewish people and you and your little trio are up to your arses in that one with your support for pre war British fascism Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 May 18 - 07:18 AM I have never intentionally described Israel as such - just the bunch of Nazis who run it That counts I fear Jim. It detracts from the horror of the holocaust to suggest the Nazis were no worse than the government of Israel. Not just my view, but widely accepted as I said. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 May 18 - 07:20 AM your little trio are up to your arses in that one with your support for pre war British fascism I am not aware of anyone on Mudcat who could be accused of such a thing. You resort to debate by insult again. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 08:19 AM Folks who are so 'unaware' of their persistent obvious transgressions can only be extremely thick...??? .. or habitual petty criminal liars... who's immediate reaction to being caught red handed yet again, is "Not me guv / no comment / prove it..."...? What other explanation can there possibly be...????? |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 08:29 AM "who could be accused of such a thing." "Who Me!!!!!" 'Course you're not Keith "That counts I fear Jim. " Not unless you equate the actions of teh Israelis with the Jewish People, which is included in the definition It is antisemitic to attempt to rob Jews of their cultural identity - you and Israel are supporting that Just go away and stop attempting to scuttle a thread that ahs exposed your group for what they are Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 08:43 AM Standing at the pearly gates... You know where "It wasn't me.. anyone who says I did is a liar.. prove I did it..".. will get sly weasel folks sent down to... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 May 18 - 09:05 AM PFR, if you make disgusting accusations against other members you should be able to substantiate them. You can't because they are LIES! Anything to say on the subject of the thread yet PFR? Why not? Jim, By the definition accepted by 31 countries including yours and mine and the UK Labour Party, it is anti-Semitic to compare Israel to Nazi Germany, which you have done. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 09:32 AM The refusal to jump to your commands to substantiate is because I have far better things to do with my time than trawl through all your over bloated high post count... Of course you would be very keen on folks being so distracted away from more constructive use of time and intellectual energy.. Whilst satisfying your unseemly desperate need for attention... There is a far simpler response to your over needy demands but I am too much of a gentleman..... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 09:57 AM Sorry lads, said I wasn't going to do this but Keith is presenting us with a perfect example of everything that is wrong with Israel today "By the definition accepted by 31 countries including yours " I have no control over what countries accept and refuse to do so when they are designed to protect right-wing extremism "It detracts from the horror of the holocaust to suggest the Nazis were no worse than the government of Israel." Germany embarked on the greatest and most successful example of ethnic cleansing in modern history in modern history - result - six million deliberately murdered Jews The greatest insult possible to those dead is for a country claiming to act on behalf of the Jewish People embark on a similar policy of Ethnic Cleansing using the six million dead as an excuse for this policy Not only is this what the Israeli regime has embarked on, but it is what hald the population of Israel are now demanding You support this policy by describing the confirmation of this 50% in the Jeruslem Times as " It just published some survey findings" Putting any critiscism of any Government beyond reproach by redefining terms like 'antisemitism' is not only antisemitic, it is naked fascism - George Orwell's wet dream No Government has a right to change the language to suit its policies As I said, the only reliable definition of antisemitism is "persecution and denigration of the Jewish People" That is underlined when the redefinition makes Jews "antisemitic self haters" - an establishment turning against its own people I have noticed recently that some American dictionaries have now re-defined the term 'facism' to include governments who nationalise private property - technically, every government in Britain who adopt a policy of nationalisation and any that plan to do so in the future are nor "Fascists" Brave New World here we come While we're conversing, perhaps you can clear up a point for us Can you explain how a song containing these verses: Land of Jewish finance, Fooled by Jewish lies, In press and books and movies While our birthright dies. Longer still and longer Is the rope they get But, by the God of battles T'will serve to hang them yet. written by a British Fascist in the process of organising an alternative government for when "Herr Hitler won the war" can possibly be described as an This was your claim, wasn't it - nobody faked a posting on your behalf? Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 10:13 AM Jim - you are a braver man than I, researching back into slimy weasel's inordinately over piled post garbage heap... He knows what evidence is there to be found but counts on mere mortals being put off the herculean task of being tied up for days rummaging through it... Like how some high profile politicians and criminals stretch out their trials for years knowing the police will waste millions of man hours searching for key evidence... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 10:45 AM "but counts on mere mortals being put off the herculean task of being tied up for days rummaging through it..." Thanks to my dealings with Keith and that some of his outrageously inhuman statements are indelibly imprinted on my memory almost word-for-word (I maybe forget what I had for breakfast this morning, but I'll never forget "all male Pakistanis" and cultural implant"), it really isn't difficult to find stuff. Mudcat is blessed with a very efficient search engine - remember a large enough part of the phrase and it takes a few minutes to find the full statement All my postings today have ben done while I was digitising hundreds of soundfiles, strimming around the outside of an acre of garden and replacing a transformer in a ceiling light (and completing Code-word and reading two chapters of Peggy Seeger's biography). Who says men aren't good at multi-tasking (Pat does!!) Jim |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 May 18 - 10:52 AM PFR, The refusal to jump to your commands to substantiate is because I have far better things to do with my time I find that utterly unacceptable. If you have time to make vile accusations, you should make the time to substantiate them. If you can't back your filthy lies, keep quiet like you do on the actual subject of the thread. Jim, Can you explain how a song containing these verses:.....written by a British Fascist in the process of organising an alternative government for when "Herr Hitler won the war" can possibly be described as an "Unimportant silly song" Yes. It was eight years ago and this was the context. You stated, " one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids". " That was a lie. No-one had said any such thing. You went on to claim that the British establishment was "was riddled with Nazi sympathisers." (Bollocks because in Parliament they voted to fight even though defeat seemed certain.) You backed your claim with those verses and I said "Silly songs don't count," as evidence for your ludicrous lies. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 11:06 AM "I find that utterly unacceptable." I don't care.. divisive hypocrites are not entitled to 'normal' standards of respect... "If you have time to make vile accusations, you should make the time to substantiate them." I'll bear that in mind for if I ever make vile accusations on a par with those you habitually resort to... For the moment I'm just sarcastically dogging your heels to remind you that your tiresome objectionable behaviour is not going unnoticed... You do not have free reign to slander and malign, absolved from all consequences...... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 12:26 PM "Yes. It was eight years ago and this was the context." THe soing was made two years before sox million Jews were sent to their deaths - not eight years ago Suggesting it was a "silly song" was an extremely antisemitic statement Not so long ago you were screaming "antisemite" at a Labour politician who made a comment in her student days Is there a time-limit on antisemitism - if so, what is it? "That was a lie. No-one had said any such thing." How do you know Keith Was the feller who wrote the poem I put up incapable of making such a statement? I said I heard this story in my youth and could not remember the politician s involved - it's hardly a statement that the press would keep on archive Why do you continue to deny such a statement after all this time (eight years Isn't it?), when it is perfectly logical that it could have been made - if it isn't logical, please explain why THAT IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION - YOU KEEP DOING SO BECAUSE - LIKE YOUR SUPPORTERS HERE, ANTISEMITISM IS ONLY A USEFUL ACCUSATION WHEN IT CAN BE USED AGAINST THE LEFT - IT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE WHEN IT IS SPOUTED BY RIGHT-WING NUTTERS Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 May 18 - 01:21 PM Jim, you opened this thread with these words, "Can we have a rational debate on this important...." Now here you are falsely claiming I said something anti-Semitic eight years ago, while PFR continues to post only personal stuff and name calling having never made any serious contribution to the actual debate at all! Suggesting it was a "silly song" was an extremely antisemitic statement It was a silly anti-Semitic song, and I said "Silly songs don't count," as evidence for your ludicrous lies. It was not being anti-Semitic, it was rebuttal of your ludicrous lies. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 01:50 PM I seriously doubt you are the best qualified most credible self appointed arbiter of what is a serious contribution to a mudcat BS thread... ..perhaps one of the most devious, narrow minded, pedantic, and hyperbolic though... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 12 May 18 - 01:51 PM PFR In THIS case Keith is correct and JC is in the wrong. No judgement on any previous interactions between you two, but to back up JC is giving credit to logic by JC that , when applied to JC, even HE deies is valid. Just my 2 cents worth. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 12 May 18 - 01:53 PM Denies... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 02:18 PM Bruce - I hoped I made it clear that me and Jim are independent of each other in our problematic relationships with K****. Obviously we will overlap... I don't speak for Jim, or make a habit of backing him up.. and will criticise and disagree with him... Over the years I've found it more practicable to mostly stay out of Jim's way when he's bit his teeth deep into an argument and won't let go... If it appears we are working in tandem, that's because few others are daft enough to continue with this thread, for the moment it just seems like me and him... We honestly are not a team... I would rather keep overt reference to my issues with K**** confined to just this one thread, than risk spoiling any others.. ..and I would happily accept a truce with K**** if he became a more positive member of mudcat community, and genuinely meant it... I'm rather old school.. I'd much prefer 'enemies' I can respect... I will say this yet again, Keith is capable of astute points, and is clearly knowledgeable. But he is his own worse enemy, regularly undermining his own credibility with his immature resorts to playing the innocent, name calling, and whining when folks give him back some of his own petty treatment... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 12 May 18 - 02:35 PM Sort of my opinion of JC. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 03:01 PM "It was a silly anti-Semitic song" Why is suggesting the killing of Jews a year or so before six million were exterminated "silly" ? Feel free to answer this Bruce - don't be shy THank you for confirming that you believe it is "silly" to suggest killing Jews - it makes my point Why are you still defending British fascists after the death of six million Jews ? Feel free to answer this Bruce. Had Hitler one the war the man you are defending might well have been in the British Government Is that "silly" too ? Feel free to respond to this on your own or Keith's behalf Bruce. PLease don't disappoint me and walk away from this Bruce I would love to have you as further confirmation of the appalling people who support Israel The more the merrier. "But he is his own worse enemy, " The most sadly stupid thing about Keith is he has never learned to lie down when he's beaten At no time has he ever walked away from a seriously inhuman and stupid statement His "all male Pakistanis are culturally implanted" claim Instead of throwing in the towel when he found himself alone he invents phantom "prominent people" who said the same thing - he has never produced a single person to have ever done so and had they, they would have been drummed out of any job they ever held and probably prosecuted for incitement to race hatered Go read what he said again and tell me that would not be a criminal offence off line. "Brainwashed Irish Schoolchildren" (again a single-hander with occasional interjections by now expelled Teribus) I had never read Chrisine Keneally's book on Irish education - so I went off and did so I came back and put into context what Keneally actually said Keith, who still hasn't read the book, continues to take the line she used out of context and still accuses Irish children of being brainwashed "Slave owning Travellers" At no time did Keith concede that taking the actions of a few criminals as a "serious over-representation of a community numbering well over 100,000 was a stupidly bigoted thing to do He has never withdrawn his vicious claim so it remains an example of his extremist bigotry Tory rapists and Paedofiles and arming Assad with riot control equipment and selling him chemicals and ammunition - still part of Keith's "middle-of-the-road moderate" CV Now, you continue to defend British fascist antisemitism and complain that it's "eight years old" so somehow subject to s statute of limitations. So this stays on your CV too, and hopefully it will now be added to Bruce's To defend a poem which calls for the killing of Jews a year or so before six million of them dies at the hands of the fascism Keith (and Bruce) are defending is not only antisemitic - it is obscenely inhuman If criticising Israel is disrespectful to the dead of the Holocaust is antisemitic - wta the **** is this viciousness? Tell be again why it's silly - BOTH OF YOU THIS TIME Yours in anticipation Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 May 18 - 07:05 PM Nothing? Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 12 May 18 - 07:17 PM Is-er-ail next year jerus-a-lem we won the world cup... Eurovision.. come on if you are hard enough... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 13 May 18 - 03:59 AM Gentlemen - to our MUTTONS Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 May 18 - 01:57 PM Jim, Why is suggesting the killing of Jews a year or so before six million were exterminated "silly" ? That is what made it anti-Semitic. The rubbish doggerel made it silly. It certainly did not count as evidence of your ludicrous claim that the British establishment was riddled with anti-Semitism, or justify you in claiming a quote that you had just made up? That was my point at the time. Now, I am here to discuss current issues over Israel, not to argue over things said in unrelated threads many years ago. That is a tactic you always revert to when you have lost an argument. PFR, I seriously doubt you are the best qualified most credible self appointed arbiter of what is a serious contribution to a mudcat BS thread... OK. produce one serious contribution you actually have made. Installing bouncy castles and petting zoos on the border? |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 May 18 - 02:12 PM Honestly, PFR, it really is not worth it. Stare into the pit and you may get dragged in. Skip along the edge of the abyss and you may fall. And any other cliched phrase you can think of ;-) |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 13 May 18 - 02:42 PM Hamas drops all pretense of "peaceful" protest in planning mass breach of border Monday and Tuesday. Release video warning Jews: "don't stay, the Palestinians are swarming unrestrained, and we recommend you leave without hesitation." "Kites are the tip of the iceberg. Those who stay will bear the full consequences. You've been warned. We'll break through the border and reach all the way to your communities, and we will not die alone." |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 13 May 18 - 02:48 PM Don't be stupid Keith Screaming "Kill the Jews" is not silly - it's dangerous and it's downright insulting to Jewish people You've really shit in your own nest here - now you sra down to making excuses - next step will be to tell us somebody put you up to it Your defending this dangerous garbage especially considering the tim it was written makes you the antisemite you are You really let the cat out of the bag by the outraged manner in which you went for my "whining yids" story "Illogical" - why Why should you defend those bastards if you don't support them - it is exactly the type of thing they could easily have said - it echoes Ramsey's poetry prfectly Perhaps you'd like to claim that he didn't write the stuff!! "Now, I am here to discuss current issues over Israel, " Not with me you're not - hopefully with nobody else (other than your fellow antisemitism appeaser Why are you acting as if you have any authority here PFR will post what he wishes without your sergeant major tactics Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 May 18 - 12:49 AM Outing hypocrisy amd malevolent duplicity is my serious contribution to this thread... taking the piss out of the perpetrator is very serious work... |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 02:34 AM There remains an ominously deathly silence on what is happening on the border at present - there hasnt been any major reporting in the media since the beginning, which is indicative of the influence Israeli propaganda is having on our media I can still remember the papers being full of similar shootings - Kent State, Sharpville, Soweto, Mai Lai - day after day on it until it became commonplace Here, nothing - no outrage, not even information. !00,000 Palestinians are due to march today The Times of Israel is claiming in its headlines that "hundreds plan to try breach the fence and carry out a “massacre” of Israeli civilians" - this claim comes from the same IDF who have been shooting down protesters - 40+ dead and thousands of casualties - for over a month without a single Israeli casualty to date In fairness, they do show as evidence a four-day old photograph of a protester welding a very deadly-looking pair of wire cutters! I hope it is not the case, but it could be a bad day today Let's hope our press and statesmen find the time to take an interest in it Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 03:56 AM ""Kites are the tip of the iceberg." Yup - wire cutters and slingshotts are on their way This Bullshit came from Israeli propaganda mouthpiece YT News Israel must be quaking in its fallout shelters Utter crap Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 May 18 - 05:39 AM Last Friday there was "only" one death. There was less violence so less reporting. Most people know that Israel is just trying to prevent incursion and mass murder. The outrage you express against Israel is not widely felt. Today the embassy opening presents another excuse for violence, and then we have Nakba day. Let us hope reason and restraint prevail. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 May 18 - 05:43 AM PFR, Outing hypocrisy amd malevolent duplicity is my serious contribution to this thread... taking the piss out of the perpetrator is very serious work... Just personal abuse and name calling then. Still nothing to say about the current Israel issues. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 06:04 AM Right on cue "Still nothing to say about the current Israel issues." Still nothing tosay about your support for the killing of Jews and your serial appalling behaviour? |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 May 18 - 06:51 AM Still nothing tosay about your support for the killing of Jews and your serial appalling behaviour? I have debunked your absurd claim about that thread from eight years ago, and it is not my behaviour that is appalling. You raise these ancient issues because you can not defend your case today. You do exactly the same thing every time you lose an argument. We are not here to discuss me, just the issues relevant to the thread. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 14 May 18 - 07:12 AM t was cleared for publication today that Palestinians who crossed the border into Israel and were questioned by the Shin Bet revealed that Hamas sends its own members to the border in order to sabotage security infrastructure and promote violent activities. In addition, the Shin Bet uncovered that Iran transfers funds to Hamas so that it can carry out the violent protests. Yehia Ijla, a 19-year-old Hamas member, told the Shin Bet during his interrogation that Hamas instructs members to cut the border fence and steal security cameras while dressed as civilians. Others are in charge of giving civilians tires, which are set on fire near the border to create black clouds of smoke that cover up Hamas’s terrorist acts near the fence. In addition, Hamas terrorists prepare the flaming kites, which have set fire to several Israeli fields near the border, and give them to civilians. In the interrogation of another Gazan, the Shin Bet discovered that Hamas terrorists go undercover as civilians to try to convince children to cross the border and steal IDF equipment. On May 4, a 13-year-old boy was injured while he was trying to breach the security fence in order to steal a security camera. JOL |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 08:06 AM 25 dead and over 1000 injured as the protesters approached the fence That just about put Israel and Apartheid South Africa neck and neck in the slaughter of protesters stakes Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 May 18 - 08:23 AM Only to you Jim. Who shares your extreme view? |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 14 May 18 - 08:32 AM Israel, like any other country, has the right to protect its citizens from being massacred by hordes of terrorists breaching its border in order to carry out that massacre. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 09:18 AM On cue again Aren't the victims always to blame? Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 May 18 - 09:39 AM Can we be so certain K & bob aren't actually working for the Palestinians.. They are doing their utmost to undermine and discredit supporters of Israel...??? At least one of them reminds me of vintage Action Man and Barbie dolls.. The one's where you'd pull a string in the back to hear the same few limited prerecorded statements, over and over again, until parents got sick of the sound and hid them under the stairs... "Hello, my name is K***.. You LIARS on the Far-Left express extreme views.. You are extreme left enemies of western democracy...... Would you like to be my friend, we can play together.." |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 14 May 18 - 09:41 AM Aren't the victims always to blame? Only when they are Jews, it seems. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 10:12 AM They've done it - THEY'VE BEAT THE SHARPEVILLE RECORD Sabra Shatila olympics here they come It takes a special type of sick bastard to cheer on the slaughter of demonstrators before the survivors have had time to drag away their dead The type that thinks songs demanding the killing of Jews "funny" I suppose Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 May 18 - 10:15 AM You can both have a PARTY TONIGHT tonight Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 14 May 18 - 10:22 AM The Hamas terrorist group is leading and orchestrating the recent wave of violence from Gaza aimed at breaking the border fence, storming Israel with thousands of rioters and attacking Israeli civilians. Israeli is not instigating this violence and Israel has the right to self-defense. |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 May 18 - 11:01 AM bob - Judged guilty and executed before they can even commit the 'murderous' crimes they are posthumously accused of...??? get yer retaliation in first..eh...??? |
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 14 May 18 - 11:06 AM get yer retaliation in first..eh...??? Self defense is not retaliation...............try another smear tactic. |