Crumhorns and early instruments

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 02:42 PM

For the record, England was 1972 - as was the YouTube footage. Nice to hear it featured on Corry, which is about as English as it gets. Good luck finding England on CD though; it's actually easier (& nicer???) to pick up vinyl originals on Ebay - three on there just now...

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: MikeRebec
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 04:58 PM

1972 sounds right; I was being too lazy to go downstairs to look at my vinyl copy. Very nice album ENGLAND and more polished than FANTASIA LINDUM but I much prefer the latter.
John Kelly, I can't PM you as you are logged in as a guest only. If you still want to play shawms and crumhorns and you don't live too far away then contact me for a bash.
Mike Billington.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,John Kelly
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 05:24 PM

Mike, yes, I'm certainly interested in getting into playing the early stuff again, even if it's only for the hell of it. Incidentally, do you know Steve Mansfield? He plays flutes, recorders, rauschpfeife (or schreierpfeife, as we are told it should be called) etc. with 'Trebuchet'. I'm not sure where he lives, but it's somewhere over Stockport way, I think. I was thinking it would be good for all us noisy buggers to get together! Pity I haven't got the bass shawm any more. It wasn't mine, but belonged to David Griffith, who played the top lines in Chester Waytes, so it's in Orkney, standing in the corner, waiting......I have got an alto shawm, and a soprano rauschpfeife, and a bass curtal on long term loan, plus the alto and tenor crumhorns and one or two other things.
Don't have any contact details for you; perhaps it's time I actually joined Mudcat! J.K.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 12:30 PM

John, you have an amazing collection of instruments! I hope you find somebody to jam with. Early music can be so interesting.

I have just ambled onto a tune called "Jesu meine Zuversicht" which is in 8/8 time and has a most interesting rhythmic pattern. When Advent is over, I believe I'll lay it on my fellow Lutherans.

You said 'it would be good for all us noisy buggers to get together!'

Until recently I sang in a Catholic church [built in 1922] that has two niches on each side of the choir loft. We all thought they were just for decoration. Then I found out that they are an ancient feature, intended for loud instruments such as yours to play in on feast days.

I always wanted to recreate one of those events, but it never happened.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: MikeRebec
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 02:02 PM

This has been a very interestng thread and has topped the 50 mark; nothing that unusual on Mudcat but for crumhorns?

Yes John; I know Steve very well. We were both involved with Chorlton Green Women's Morris some years ago and even went to Hungary together in 1991. Steve just lives down the road in Didsbury. Othger Mudcatters will not be intersted in personal chatting so perhaps you can ring me on 01618810936 as I cannot leave you a personal message.
I have four crumhorns (SATB), a soprano shawm, a soprano rauschpfeife, bombarde, chinese shawm, Indian bean (plus a host of other exotic woodwinds)and a variety of rennaissance wide bore and baroque recorders from sopranino to bass.
I have longed wanted a bass curtal but they are pricy to buy second hand let alone new.

Look forward to hearing from you. Just had an e-mail from Bob Cross in NZ today incidentally.

Mike.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,John Kelly
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 04:59 PM

Mike: I'll give you a ring in the next couple of days. Meanwhile, if you're emailing bob back, say helloand Happy Christmas to them for me. Cheers. J.K.
Leeneia: interesting comment about those nuches. I haven't heard of that before. Churches are great places for early wind instruments. Cathedrals are even better! J.K.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:06 AM

"Then I found out that they are an ancient feature, intended for loud instruments such as yours to play in on feast days."

Hmmm, and they stopped playing these instruments inside, when?

Tradition is when you are doing something, the reason for which is lost in the mists of time.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:26 AM

I learned about the instrument niches from a CD called 'Messe in 1600.' [Messe is German for Mass]. It is a recreation of a Lutheran Christmas service as it would have been done in 1600.

I can't find it now, or I would tell you the producer.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 04:48 AM

Would that be the Gabrieli Consort's Praetorius Mass for Christmas Morning, 1620? 1994, Deutsche Grammophon. Awesome stuff, not least for the near definitive In Dulci Jubilo...

You can get it for £7 at Amazon - & hear samples : Praetorius Mass

Any amount of shawms, rackets, dulcians, crumhorns, cornetts, sackbuts, regals etc. in there, but the main instrument has to be Roskilde Cathedral itself.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: MikeRebec
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM

Yipeee! This thread's now reached 60!

Nothing else to report; sorry!

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:31 PM

Happy Birthday to you!

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:08 AM

Hey, the Crumhorn & Shawm are played every week at our Ballad Session.

You've never lived till you've heard them accompany The Black Velvet Band & The Wild Rover! :-)

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Weasel
Date: 19 May 10 - 03:18 AM

Interesting to see crumhorn players from the manchester area on here - I used to run an early music group back in the 70's. I still have my instruments stashed away in a box somewhere.

They come out from time to time, but I can't play them like I used to - for a while my head would still do the divisions but my fingers wouldn't; now the head has trouble doing them too.

I can still knock a tune out of my my crumhorns, cornemuse, cornett, sackbutt and the usual pack of recorders, but both my viol and harp are in a sorry state.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 May 10 - 10:51 PM

back in the eighties, I had a friend who played a crumhorn made from pvc piping. I'll never forget the look on my mom's face, when she saw the thing, made from the same stuff that the plumber used to fix the lawn sprinklers that morning. Then she heard it. It sounded interesting.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,Year 11 music students
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 05:55 AM

Hello, our school has just found 4 crumhorns. A soprano, alto, tenor and bass. We are currentlytrying to incoperate them into our early music consort which usually complies of a recorder, a violin and a vocalist but our vocalist is also a clarinet player and can play the crumhorns... have you any ideas for pieces we could do?

Also we just thought we'd let you know that the early music is still alive within the younger generation haha.

Thank You this thread was very useful as most other sites with finger references were blocked at school.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 06:15 AM

You probably want to look at Susato's "Danserye" for crumhorn-quartet music.

Something utterly different: you might look at music for Armenian duduk groups. There is a lot of solo duduk sheet music available free on-line, but not the trio and quartet arrangements, as far as as I know. Mostly there isn't much to the arrangements - added drones and pedals, even simpler than Susato - and you should be able to work it out for yourselves. The range and scale of the duduk and crumhorn are similar, but the tone is utterly different, so some pieces will work and some very definitely won't. Duduk music tends to the sombre and melancholy end of the emotional spectrum, totally unlike what early music groups usually do with crumhorns, so if you do it right it could be effective simply because it'll confound expectations.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 03:24 PM

Hello, Year 11 music students.

Since it is so far upthread, I am going to quote myself:

"In Austin TX there is an early music course called the Texas Toot. Part of the Toot is the Great Krumhorn Konklave, which is held in a beer garden. There, recorder players are handed crumhorns, told they are fingered either like a C or an F recorder, and left to have at it. Instantly they are playing pieces by Bach, Purcell, etc."

So, you see, a student doesn't have to be a clarinet player to handle a crumhorn. Any student who has had recorder or even flutaphone can pick up a crumhorn and play it. (Of course it matters whether it is an F or C instrument.)

I suspect it will be hard to get your kids to take crumhorns seriously. Why don't you start with your class clowns, give them some light-hearted pieces (rounds, funny songs, Playford dances) and let them grow into the idea? In time I think they will be ready for some Purcell or Praetorius.

A continuo of some kind might help make it all more musical.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Oct 10 - 08:40 PM

Here is an Armenian duduk group doing the sort of thing I had in mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M590Lcrozo8

Here's the score of something vaguely related to what they're playing:

http://www.duduk.com/sheetmusic/Aravot%20Luso.pdf

(I have never heard crumhorns used that way, but if you can pull it off the effect will be amazing).

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Oct 10 - 10:37 PM

Thanks for the link, Jack. That was beautiful.

The audience was so attentive and respectful that I thought they were in an empty theatre until I heard the applause.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 10 - 11:12 PM

I agree, it was really beautiful. I am now off on an early music romp on youtube. What fun!

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 11 - 12:05 PM

If anybody wants a cornett there is one UK EBay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Cornettino-Ebony-Resin-Christopher-Monk-/170644883556?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Brass_RL&hash=item27bb3a4864

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Mo the caller
Date: 24 May 11 - 06:43 AM

If the Early Music players who live in Cheshire are still reading this thread they would be welcome at a music and dance session in Chester.
Last time we played for 9 dances, including 2 Playford and one C18.
We will gradually introduce new tunes and dances, the balance between old and modern will depend on the preferences of the callers, dancers and musicians.