What does 'English' mean?

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:14 PM

The first reference to 'english' for putting side spin on the cue ball is in Mark Twain, 1869, "Innocents Abroad." "You would invariably put the 'English' on the wrong side of the ball." No explanation of where the term came from. The book is probably online, if anyone wants to look. Page 116 of the first edition.

The stories by Rupert Hughes, comprising "The Dozen of Lakerim," members of a fictional athletic club, serialized in Century Magazine and in the children's magazine "St. Nicholas," reached every corner of North America. A story in 1898 described a billiards game in which the hero used 'english,'
Information from The Oxford English Dictionary, complete edition.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:18 PM

Well . . . you did have to ask, didn't you?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:43 AM

No interest in the replies from John Simmonds?

I thought that the British were generally pushed west and north by the Celts when they came to what we call the British Isles about 3 centuries before the Romans turned up.

No, the British (Pritani, Brettoni etc.) were the "Celts" who were there when the Romans arrived, and also after they left. (What Celt meant, apart from language, is a matter for debate.) They may have displaced an earlier population, and they may have merged with them, or there may simply have been a change of culture over some hundreds of years. DNA evidence suggests both continuity and immigration.

The English got their name from the Angles, but it doesn't mean that every Englishman was an Angle- the probability is that the immigrants mixed with the indigenous population in varying degrees. Then of course Norses of various flavours came along and added to the Micks (sorry, mix) and changed the language again. And so on.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:25 AM

I suspect that the originator of this thread was probably thinking in terms of the appointment of the new "English" football coach, and has realised from the intelligence of the replies that he's in the wrong forum. He certainly doesn't seem to have any intention of following up his query. Still, it's been an interesting exchange of views and information.

Andrew

PS - Thought for Paws

I did say 'approximately'

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:53 AM

Football in England? I thought they played soccer.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:14 PM

Surely English merely means 'Born in England'.

Rog

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:27 PM

There is that peculiar byway of language called British, or English 'humor.'

A lot of the old chestnuts here, plus some that were new to me:
Best of British

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:05 PM

Hey 'Q'...the English play rugby football and soccer football.
Best wishes, MIke.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: danensis
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:12 PM

No. we play football, rugby league, and another game which is vagueley similar to the latter.

John

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:17 PM

Georgiansilver, The correct name for so-called soccer football is "Association Football", and danensis, the vaguely similar game you are desperately trying to avoid mentioning is "Rugby Union Football".

Rog

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:22 PM

I'll accept Rugby Union Football as football, but the other one isn't brutal enough.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:47 PM

I was always told that a rugby league player was a union player with his brains kicked out...

(exit pursued by a bear)

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 02:02 AM

'English Leave' is a translation from French of what the English term 'French Leave.' That's according to Flanders and Swann.

'Body English' is the urging body movements forlornly attempting to alter the trajectory of a thrown, or, more usually, bowled, object, such as a 10-pin bowling ball.

5 commas in 6 words. Don't think I've ever used so many.



If Rugby and League and Oz Rules and American Football is supposed to be FOOTBALL, they are very badly named. Handball is a foul in REAL football.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,dazbo
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:28 AM

Neil D - a popular addiction to flagellation in England amongst the gentry was known as the English Vice. Can't see it's as much fun as sex but then I didn't go to a Public School (or a private school to our American chums)

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:17 PM

Back when I used to read US motorcycle magazines, I used to hear that riders used body english to get round a berm. Two nations divided by a common language.(Though not that common nowadays in some rural parts of East Anglia).

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 02:53 PM

I am still annoyed at the transparent idiocy of the original question, no offense intended.


A

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:18 PM

The OP described himself as "new to this forum," but we shouldn't assume that he was completely ignorant of what is customarily under discussion here.

I thought, and still think, that his question related to defining "English" as a description of folk/traditional music, not football. And Joe and the clones apparently agree, since the thread is up here in the music secion, not down in the BS Basement.

After all, defining "English" (as opposed to "British" or, God fiorbid "Celtic") music, "English" traditions, etc., is controversial enough among this group.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:19 PM

Ooops! This is a BS thread after all, isn't it? My bad.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rowan
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:37 PM

When I looked up the link posted by Q I was surprised to see that almost all of the terms are not only known in Oz but I could count less than half a dozen that I hadn't heard used here.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:43 PM

Ah, my dear Gurney...the commas after 'thrown' and 'bowled' are not really required.

"...attempting to alter the trajectory of a thrown, or more usually, bowled object, such as..."

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:55 PM

Bloodnok: "Are you English?"
Neddy:    "Only by descent!"
Bloodnok: "By descent?"
Neddy:    "I came down by parachute!"

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 02:32 AM

Bill, I don't agree. It is clearer my way, in my opinion.
However, as the comma is a dying device in this day of texting, along with all other types of punctuation and also spelling, I suspect we are both dinosaurs.


I have a program for my cellphone that allows me to type texts out on this keyboard. Sod 'em, I say.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 03:22 AM

a third of a joke....

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 01:31 PM

It means you will be hated by many different nations.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 02:16 PM

Well if you will live in Ireland, Captain......