England's County Anthems

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Macca (Norcsalordie)
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:54 PM

Hiya guys, can I just clarify what we're looking for. We are, as Rafflesbear said, looking for songs (from cities and towns, not just counties) which can be considered the local anthem. The criteria is that people from that locality would consider it their own. For example, I wouldn't consider Threescore and Ten or The Dogger Bank to be the anthem of Grimsby even though both songs mention the town. Similarly Maggie May is generally accepted as the Liverpudlian anthem above many other songs from the city which mention Liverpool such as Leaving of Liverpool or Liverpool Lou.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:56 PM

Warwickshire: The Bear & His old Ragged Staff
(And I'm not even from England!)

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:57 PM

Nothing in yet for the West Midlands, Avon or Humberside. Funny, that.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:02 PM

Macca--so you want familiar regional and local favourites rather than officially designated songs? That's kind of a field work questions, then, rather than a trivia quiz or brain of Britain.

FWIW I've heard 'Three score and ten' far more often in Yorkshire folk clubs than Ilkley Moor....

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM

West Midlands is not a county. An administrative area yes! But who is sentimental about a smudge on the cartography?

Mr Red (from Staffordshire) an' ar bain't heard of no Flaxley Green.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Martin Norcsalordie
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:27 PM

ok, here's an example of what we're after.

If there was an Olympics for english counties and a county won an event, what would be the song everyone heard as the medals are handed out?

If (and sometimes when) England wins a gold we get to hear "God save the queen", like it or not. Even if we'd rather hear "Land of Hope and Glory", we get "God save the queen".

It's a bit hypocritical to then say that Widdecombe Fair is the county anthem, when the council has officially elected it to be the awful D-E-V-O-N song, but(and I'm going out on a limb here) Devonshire people would feel better represented by Widdecombe Fair.

If you look up Yorkshire on Wikipedia (and other sites) it says that Ilkla Moor "is considered the unofficial anthem of the county" so we'll roll with that one.

Clear as mud?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:33 PM

Please browse the wonderful Yorkshire Garland site here (and read about Ilkley Moor and the Holmfirth Anthem) before you use wikipedia as your guide!--Or at least try folkopedia!


Yorkshire Songs at the Yorkshire Garland site

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:41 PM

Map of Flaxley Green

Jolly nice tune.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:48 PM

The UK national anthem has a German tune.
Is that ground for changing it? (Actually, I wish it was).

Jerusalem to the Rose Tree tune would be good.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Dead Horse
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM

Our whole royal family is German, aint it?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:11 PM

Well, it depends partly on how much of Queen Victoria's offspring as German, and one's thoughts on Greeks

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:22 PM

Mr Windsor is Queen Victoria's great-great grandson.
(That's the second time in a few days I've mentioned that).

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:47 PM

Speaking as someone who was raised in and at Cowdray House,and attended Midhurst Grammar School,I must insist upon "Sussex By The Sea" for the eponymous county (but only for WEST Sussex, of course----those "other people " must make a different selection----"Oh! I do like to be beside the seaside", possibly ??).As for Dorset??Well, having lived there for yonks,and having got to know Nicky Haan quite well, I would have to go for " Lovely ,Lovely Purbeck Hills "----don't you agree ??

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:56 PM

Ah! Purbeck Hills is certainly a better song than Dorset is Beautiful but.........the Purbecks are only a (relatively) small region of the finest county in all England!

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:02 PM

Some others that present themselves to me are :
"Ding Dong (merrily on high) "------    Avon

   "Everything is Bootiful"------ Norfolk

    "The Pink Panther " theme -------Durham

      "How Much is that Doggy in the Window ?" -------Berks

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:20 PM

Okay I tried to post this 3 days ago but it disappeared up its own ********.
Ilkley Moor Baht 'at may be a good anthem for Ilkley or perhaps even the West Riding at a pinch, but it certainly doesn't represent anything to us North, East and South Riding folk. Yorkshire is a large and diverse county from Saddleworth to Middlesborough and all points south and east. A decent all-encompassing anthem is certainly long overdue. Peregrina and I were discussing something like Woody Guthrie's 'This Land is my Land' in the car yesterday on the way to a meeting.
The nearest thing I know to a Yorkshire anthem was originally adopted by the East Riding. It is a music hall song called originally 'My Pretty Yorkshire Lass'. It dates from the 1870s and was written by George Leybourne. As The Bonny Yorkshire Lass it is now used by various Yorkshire regiments as their march past.
I suppose there's always 'My Girl's a Yorkshire Girl'

If you are just looking for place anthems, I'm sure there has been a thread on this before because lots of Yorkshire towns have their own anthems.

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:37 PM

South Riding ?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: TenorTwo
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:46 PM

Suffolk - that's got to be "Speed the Plough" or, I suppose, if you must have words, "The Battle of Sole Bay"

T2

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 01:05 PM

Glad I've missed all of this!!

Why not "Bring us Barrel" from Keith Marsden for Yorkshire?

or even "Merry Mountain Child" (this was written by Joe Perkin)

Joe of course re-arranged a song to create t'Holmfith Anthem

Ilkla Moor Bhat 'at, is ok and you hear the brass bands play this at 3 miles and know yer in Yorkshire (or feel you are even if you are not!)


Ray

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 01:33 PM

If you won't accept Ilkley Moor for Yorkshire then it has to be the theme tune to Wallace and Grommet - it means Yorkshire throughout the world

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:10 PM

Yes, Diane, but who were the other contributors to his gene pool?

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: BB
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:57 PM

'Trelawney' undoubtedly *was* the Cornish anthem, but certainly Roger Bryant's 'Cornish Lads' is now running it at least a close second in many Cornish pubs these days. I think present day Cornishmen actually identify with it in the here and now, as opposed to the historical 'Trelawney'.

Someone mentioned 'Where be that blackbird to?' as a possible Cornish anthem. It's more likely to be a Devon one (much more likely than any of the parlour songs mentioned above - and no, I'm not talking about 'Widecombe Fair'), as the use of the expression 'Where be to?' and such like is very much Devonshire dialect, rather than Cornish.

Barbara

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Kampervan
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 03:06 PM

I shouldn't think even the combined forces of our entire 'intelligence'services could answer that one Richard.

But then that's probably where they are closest to being like the rest of us!

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 03:18 PM

Sorry Raffles, should have said 'South Yorkshire'. it's so easy to get confused with all these boundary changes and such a large county.
Having 4 Thriddings as well. We never were very much good at maths.
As an old farmer once said to me looking at a trio of osses pulling a plough, 'By, them three mek a good pair!'

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 07:40 PM

there was that song about the Birmingham Jack of All trades

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: GUEST,Macca (Norcsalordie)
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:23 AM

Like it or not, Ilka Moor Baht'at is classed as Yorkshire's county anthem by most. Threescore and Ten was written by a Grimsby fisherman (who's name I've forgotten) which makes it more of a Lincolnshire song...

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:41 AM

Now then....
Classed by whom?
I think that some of the same problems arise with seeking 'county anthems' for this kind of list as the old 'national musical instrument' thread-- namely the question of how identities and labels are created. By identities I mean how 'we'--for any given 'we'-- are pushed to define ourselves against, and in distinction to, others; by 'labels' I mean how others construct an image and a label for others, for 'them', when those others do not choose that label.

If you were going to do such an exercise for, say, the U.S., I am sure people from Texas might not want 'Yellow Rose of Texas', nor those from Virginia, 'Carry me back to Ol' Virginny'. Even though those choices might speak to outsiders, locals might see them as pandering to outsiders.

If you are going to go for only regionally produced words and tunes then you wouldn't you have to rule out Ilkley Moor as well anyway?

Yorkshire is the largest of the regions, and very diverse--it can hardly be represented by a single moor.

And it has a fantastic trove of far moor--I mean more--interesting songs here:

Yorkshire Songs at the Yorkshire Garland site

For my part, I've never yet heard 'On Ilkley Moor' sung in a Yorkshire folk club--maybe others like to think we all have flat caps, whippets and stand on moors eating wensleydale cheese all day!!! If so, come visit Yorkshire and see for yourself, or visit the Garland website instead.

Good luck with your project whatever you decide. (For myself, I would be far moor, I mean more, interested in a collection of regional songs that dug up and dusted off little known regional treasures from each county--imaginative choices, fantastically performed, with thoughtful and informative notes.)

Subject: RE: England's County Anthems
From: peregrina
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:02 AM

Come to think of it, which county divisions are you using?!!

The jigsaw puzzle of the UK tells me that this is going to be a very long project. And if you go by the current system you'll need FOUR Yorkshire songs!