Banjoists, what style

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Mooh
Date: 10 May 09 - 06:26 AM

Not sure I have any style on the banjo, just a weird and spastic "comp" (accompaniment) thing. For example, last night at an infrequent sort of country/rock/blues gig I used the five string (GoldTone BG250) on a song using an improvised slightly bluegrass slow roll. Since I never manage to completely change my classical guitar/fingerstyle right hand, it ends up playing and sounding a little weird. The attraction of five string was that open G tuning was very familiar from guitar.

On 4 string (another GoldTone, IT250) I play some hymns, some celtoidish, some jamming stuff, in GDAE because I'm too lazy to learn yet another tuning. I don't like this banjo for chording as it doesn't sound as smooth as a guitar-shaped bouzouki/octave mandolin thing I have....though Copperhead Road does sound pretty wicked-funky on Irish Tenor banjo.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Rog Peek
Date: 10 May 09 - 07:19 AM

I started learning tenor banjo at the beginning of February. I have been playing guitar finger picking style for a few years, not to any great standard, but enough to accompany myself on a few songs.
I never could get on using a pick with the guitar, which was a bit of a nuisance as one of my hobbies is working on classic cars, and it is very difficult to to keep your finger nails in good nick when you're working under the bonnet ('hood' for those in US). So I was a bit apprehensive with regard to this with the banjo. I should perhaps mention that my aim is to be able to play Irish tunes, hence the short scale tenor with GDAE tuning.
I was determined not to teach myself this time, as I didn't want to get into bad habits, so I count myself very fortunate to have found a teacher only 10 minutes from my home who plays in a ceilidh band, and regularly sits in on sessions.
I've been set dancing for a number of years now, so I have a pretty good grasp of the rhythm of the various types of tune and am able to recognise a number of tunes. This has been very helpful, as I don't read music, but am able to cope with TAB.
My long term aim is to be able to play in sessions, so I am working pretty hard at it. However, in the scheme of things, I am an old dog, and these are new tricks, so wish me luck!

Rog

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 May 09 - 03:02 PM

the problem,that I see in using the styles advocated by Sully,rather than single string style is this,the fifth string.
when I put sets of irish tunes together,I will often put three tunes that are in different keys,lets say Gmajor, Adorian,and Dmajor.,this helps to avoid monotony of sound.
If you sit in an irish session,this happens all the time,which means you have to be constantly re tuning your g string,it is just not practical,whereas single string style does not have that problem.if you are not playing in sessions ok its not a problem.
but is not the point of learning irish tunes,to go and play them at other irish sessions.

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:16 PM

I have to say thatIam full of admiration for Sully and his books are very good,however,if one takes Sullys g banjo book,some of the tunes are not in the keys that they are played in at sessions, Egans polka,banish misfortune,congress reel,ballyhoura mountains,humours of tulla.
ok you can capo,but everytime you have to capo,you have to retune.
with single string style on a 5 string you dont have this problem,neither do you have it in a tenor banjo.
the disadvantage,or is it an advantage,is that single string style can sound like a Tenor banjo.

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: GUEST,Ana
Date: 10 May 09 - 05:49 PM

Ooo - all sounds very complicated, and I'm sure I will get there!

For the meantime, I'm just concentrating on C tuning and chords, and sussing some nice rolling finger pick styles - thumb and 3 preferably. Involving that 5th string I guess is the trick, and the run probably needs to be different to those my fingers already know (guitar). And then there are the 4/4 3/4 etc.

Most sites/books tend to focus on frailing, clawhammer or scruggs. Guess I'm wondering if there is another way?
Cheers

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Banjiman
Date: 11 May 09 - 03:44 AM

Ana,

That's why I'm suggesting Sully's books. He seems to advocate the most suitable style for any particular tune rather than focusing on a single technique.

I agree with some of CBs comments but would suggest the issue with changing keys is something that is a limitation with the 5 string banjo, not any particular playing style. It is designed to be played with the drone string as part of the sound. Using a single string style is a way of accomodating this limitation, but as CB says, you may as well be playing tenor banjo.... it no longer has the distinctive 5 string sound.

But, there you go. If we wanted to play sensible instruments we could all take up the g*itar!

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:06 AM

Banjiman,Good points,there is one slight difference,between playing single string style,and tenor banjo,you have the option of the g string as a melody note,plus when you play a g chord in a tune[say on a long note]you have alovely five note chord which is not possible on a tenor.
single string style does not have to exclude double stoppping,or occasional brush chording

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:14 AM

Dick - there's a 5-string banjo player who attends a session I go to (there's one tonight) who either has some sort of mini-capo device or locking device which he uses on the high g string to help out when he either plays in different keys or with a main capo on.

Any idea what that might be?

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Banjiman
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:20 AM

Either a fifth string capo or "spikes" (small tacks used by model railway enthusiasts for holding down train tracks) which you can tuck the 5th string under.

Both of these are fine (I prefer spikes as I find a 5th string capo on a slider gets in the way) but it is still difficult to change keys during a song or tune set.

You always end up having to fine tune when you apply a main capo or a 5th string device as banjos seem more sensitive than g*itars. More of a precision instrument maybe.....

Or is it that g*itarists just don't care?

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:27 AM

I use a G7 capo on my guitars sometimes. A fine capo, but I always have to tune the 6th string down a little when it's on. Guitarists, as you know, are caring, sharing, essentially sweet floral creatures whose sole aim is to please...

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Banjiman
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:33 AM

"tune the 6th string down"

Now you're just showing off because you have 6 strings.........

"Guitarists, as you know, are caring, sharing, essentially sweet floral creatures whose sole aim is to please..."

As someone who lives with a g*itarist (amongst other things), I know this isn't true!

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 May 09 - 05:39 AM

Sorry Banjiman - thought it was April 1st... :-) I have to have a 6th string on my guitar, by the way, to compensate for the 4 on my tenor banjo.

In a few weeks time, I shall have a tenor guitar - being made for me by a luthier friend - and then I shall have the best or worst of both worlds, depending on your viewpoint...

Tuned, of course, in standard tenor tuning - GCDA - like a viola, so I can play both jazz and traditional tunes on it.

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: banjoman
Date: 11 May 09 - 06:44 AM

The best fifth string capo I have found is a simple piece of elastic webbing with a small clip hook on one end which hooks onto the edge of the fingerboard and a plastic hook that hooks over the fifth string. Works well and in use for a long time, I bought this on ebay a couple of years ago and they are still on sale there.
Pete

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 May 09 - 08:10 AM

there is another possibilty[I havent tried this because I play TENOR Banjo with a plectrum]and that is to use a Thimble on the index finger to play the tune similiar to a plectrum [in the style of John Keenan Tenor Banjo]on the 5 string ,this leaves the thumb free to pluck,or to drop thumb or double thumb if the player wanted to.

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: olddude
Date: 11 May 09 - 08:54 AM

I play bluegrass scruggs style (not very well)
after listening to Art Thieme play the clawhammer I am now on a mission to try and learn it. I just love the sound

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 May 09 - 09:11 AM

Just out of curiosity - not being a 5-string player - what's the difference between banjo clawhammer and frailing?

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: Banjiman
Date: 11 May 09 - 09:22 AM

Bit of a minefield that on WF.

Some would say nothing...... that they are the same thing.

Others would say that frailing is the relatively simple technique of hitting a note then brushing a number of strings and then releasing the 5th string with your thumb. Count 1-2-3-4..... 1/pick 2/ nothing 3/ brush 4/ thumb release top string.

Clawhammer is a development of this where you add in drop thumbing, double thumbing (hitting top string on 2/ & 4/) , pull offs, slides and hammers to add more of the melody notes in. Chances are the 2/ beat as described above will have a note sounded and 3/ might also be a single note rather than a brush.

Some may argue with this description..... it would be far easier to show you than explain!

Subject: RE: Banjoists, what style
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 May 09 - 09:56 AM

I am not an expert,
Quote:a more refined type of frailing is known as drop thumb frailing melodic frailing, strumless frailing or clawhammer.IN FRAILING the melody generally alternates with chords i.e strums.
pull off hammer ons and slides are used in both.
whereas in clawhammer the emphasis is on linear melody with few chord strums.
they are both down picking.
in clawhammer the fifth string is often used as a melody note.
of course there must be styles where the two are almost indistinguishable.