How many wandering musicians can't find a session?

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: reggie miles
Date: 26 May 11 - 12:51 PM

Guest Ralpie, you are correct, there do seem to be a lot of mixed messages going on in this thread. In the case of our local "Folk" festival, the term must be considered in the loosest possible context. Because those who have been charged with the organization of this event have tried their best to feature everything and anything and much of it can hardly be classified as Folk. As such, there are those who still recall the beginnings of this event and yearn for what it used to be.

While the event still clings to the past name rights, that features the word 'Folk' prominently, it is a mere shadow of the event it used to be. It now resembles something more like your standard variety music event, that focuses more on loud electric acts, than it does acoustic based music as it once did. Bluegrass music, and those who love that genre, played a primary role in the beginnings of this event. Of late, each year, the volume levels of the amplified stages and the casual drum circle, which sets up in the very heart of the event, has managed to increase, until those who love the occasional Bluegrass jam can hardly find a quiet moment to share an intimate acoustic tune together on the grounds.

Now compound the volume of the audio cacophony of this phony Folk event with the shamelessly bizarre way it treats actual Folk performance artists, performing acoustically on the grounds as street performers and you might begin to see the twisted and warped creature that this event has become. They not only have unconstitutional rules in place that restrict the actions of those exercising their First Amendment rights to freedom of expression, which is in direct violation of the law, but they also are asking that those who perform on the grounds, and accept donations, offer 15% to the event. Mind you, this is an event that has never offered a single dime to any of the performers who have supported this festival with their talents, freely, for decades. The hypocrisy of this request is beyond my comprehension.

The only reason for it seems to be that the event wants the power to be in control of those who choose to simply offer their acoustic entertainment on the grounds. The love of money, and in this case the lust for power, is the root of all evil actions. They attempt to gain power, over the legal actions of those offering to freely entertain on the grounds, by first painting all of those who choose do so with the broad brush of being 'out of control'. Then they wrangle together what are actually illegal restrictions and use threat of force, and actual force, against those who are acting within the law by labeling them as criminal for doing so.

That's how this event has turned the act of offering Folk music, on public property, into a criminal offense. Fortunately, the courts have ruled just the opposite. Playing Folk music on public property is not a crime!

What is truly bizarre, is why this event feigns ignorance of the law. It is they who are, in fact, out of control and out of line, in their attempts at trying to demonize and criminalize the playing of Folk music or any aspect of freedom of expression.

This event has grown fat via those who have volunteered their time, energy and their music freely and now that it has become bloated with success, they've taken to biting the hand that's been feeding that success.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 26 May 11 - 06:32 PM

Among the mixed messages seems to be a complaint that festivals are failing to provide venues for sessions, even though those sessions may be attended by people who haven't bought a festival ticket.

There are two types of session - those which form part of the festival programme and those on the fringe. The former are usually hosted by festival guests and it's quite possible that they have a different idea of how to run them than your expectations. That's not necessarily their fault, it may be what they've been briefed to do. Some "sessions" are actually intended to be opportunities to meet and play along with well-known musicians.

The other sort just happen. In my experience most festivals do identify which pubs are likely to welcome sessions, but they can't arrange for all pubs to be music-friendly, neither can they dictate to landlords what bands they can put on in their own pub.

If you don't like the way a festival organises its programmed sessions it's up to you to decide to go, or leave if it's not to your liking, just like any other festival event. To complain that they're not organising fringe sessions as well seems unreasonable to me, especially when the festival won't receive any income.

Ralphie mentioned the Radway. Great English music sessions, and for me one of the main reasons to go to Sidmouth. However they wouldn't happen without the festival. To go to Sidmouth and sit in the Radway all week without making any financial contribution to the festival seems to me mean-spirited. In reality, most people do make a contribution, whether its buying a full season ticket or just tickets to individual events.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: ripov
Date: 26 May 11 - 06:44 PM

1. the Radway sessions over what was the August Bank Holiday were going on courtesey of EFDSS long before there was a festival.
2. The Radway had to be shamed into making a contribution to Sidmouth Festival. When the music ians discovered the pub was putting nothing back in they changed venue, with the result that the pub is now a sponsor of the festival.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 26 May 11 - 07:31 PM

I wrote a book about the Sidmouth Festival.
It started in 1955, organised by EFDSS.
There were no "sessions" in the Radway before that - i doubt if the session concept in modern-day understanding had been invented then! :-) From 1949, the EFDSS organised Whit tours of Devon - morris and country dance displays - and Sidmouth was included, and by 1951 the displays were in the Connaught gardens! Early festivals saw a bit of informal music in the marine, and perhaps the Volunteer, but nothing reported in the Radway.
Incidentally, the radway is not a current Festival sponsor.
Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 May 11 - 07:50 PM

The New Tavern Session in Sidmouth (Overflow bar for Carinas Nightclub) has ALWAYS been a 'Fringe' event despite the fact that for several years it has been listed on the Sidmouth Programme as Gerry Milne and Friends . AND on the Festival Map too !
Its completely free , except that we DO have an Official Festival collecting tin which Gerry rattles fairly regularly .
Sidmouth is fortunate in that it has a number of pubs where all sorts of things happen during the Festival week , including quiet boozing and socialising .
Sadly , some towns and small villages DONT have spare Bar space for informal sessions , which is NOT the fault of the Festival Organisers
And IF a Landlord decides to book a Rock Band to try to attract drinkers to his pub , thats not the Festivals fault either !
Lets try and be reasonable - As I said earlier in this thread , I am NOT a Listening Oik , but DO like to have a sing/play with other like minded people , so DONT just slag a Festival off if the local pubs dont want the 'Hairy Arsed Folkie Crowd' clurttering up their space !!

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 May 11 - 08:18 PM

Sidmouth is a town during Sidmouth week, just like it's a town at any other time. In this great nation of ours we do not have laws that either ban or criticise people for going to a town, for whatever legal reason, just because a folk festival happens to be on. If I go to Sidmouth during Sidmouth week and do not buy a ticket (I do buy one sometimes as it happens) I am no more a freeloader than if I go to Sidmouth at any other time of the year. Actually, I go to Sidmouth pretty frequently as I happen to have relatives who live in Sidmouth and in nearby East Budleigh and Exmouth. 'Tis pleasant to stroll along the prom on a fine day at any time of the year. When I go to Sidmouth I buy stuff in shops, go to tea rooms, have the odd pint and pay good money to park me car. If I happen along to Sidmouth during Sidmouth week, do some or all of these things, bring along my harmonicas and have a tune or ten wherever I can find an opportunity, I am not a freeloader. It so happens that I am there on a day when there is no band I wish to see, that's all. And I will not buy a season ticket because Sidmouth, like all such events, is, except to hard-core aficionados of the genre, a crock of shite (with occasional gleaming diamonds embedded) when it comes to stuff you have to pay for to get into. This is a free country, and I can go into towns if I want at any time and I do not wish to be called a freeloader for so doing, thanks! And, let's face it, if the sun is out and you want a tune, you can always sit on the sea front and play. Plenty of room.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 May 11 - 01:29 AM

Although agreeing broadly with Mr Shaw, re Sidmouth being just a town, that week and indeed for the rest of the year, I feel I must pull him up on the "Crock Of Shite" comment. maybe it would be better to say, "Some of the artists are not to my taste" A view with which I would agree. For example, as a non singer, I never go to the Anchor, as a non dancer, I avoid dance workshops, though I do go to ceilidhs when there's musicians playing that I enjoy. As for the "Fringe/Session" scene. Sidmouth is indeed lucky to have venues that allow things to happen, a lot of town festivals don't. All of which adds to the general bonhomie of the week. I know some people (who wouldn't know a folk song if it slapped them in the face) who go on holiday in Sidmouth week, just to soak up the ambience. They don't buy tickets for events, mainly because it's expensive enough for accomodation anyway, and they probably haven't heard of any of the artists too! But, they can wander into various pubs, hear singing, tunes, whatever...Various ad-hoc dance displays in the town centre and elsewhere, and have a jolly good time.
What's not to like about that?
On the whole, I think that Sidmouth gets the balance right. Well, it must be, It's been going for 56 years! (same age as me, so, I didn't get to the first one!)
Every festival here in the UK has to juggle their desires within a difficult economic framework, some have gone to the wall, which is sad. But, some continue to survive. I'm just grateful that a lot of unsung heroes carry on carrying on.
See some of you in August!

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 May 11 - 06:38 AM

And IF a Landlord decides to book a Rock Band to try to attract drinkers to his pub , thats not the Festivals fault either ! [...] DONT just slag a Festival off if the local pubs dont want the 'Hairy Arsed Folkie Crowd' cluttering up their space !!

It may not be the festival's fault, but if they can't do something about it I'm not going. I've got better things to do with my time than alternate between listening to concerts and hanging around pubs that have deservedly unknown local covers bands making both music and speech impossible. And there are enough people who think the same way as I do that a festival that ignores the problem is set for terminal decline.

Whitby gets this right. Woodbridge got it about as wrong as it is possible to be. Auchtermuchty got it wrong once and dealt with the problem.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 11 - 06:45 AM

OK Ralphie, I was a bit harsh there I admit. But to me it is a crock of shite with occasional gleaming diamonds because, for my sins, my tastes in traditional music are somewhat restricted. My problem. What I was trying to say was that me being who I am, not being prepared to fork out hundreds for a season ticket, and even daring to turn up on days when there is no act I wish to pay for and see, does not make me a freeloader. Sidmouth folk festival is not entitled to tell me that I am somehow less welcome to hang around as much as I want to in Sidmouth during that week just because I don't want to pay money to see stuff I'd rather not bother with. As I said, I have paid to get into a number of events over the years, which neither makes me better nor worse than anyone else hanging out in Sidmouth that week, doing whatever legal and free things are available. And call me Steve. If I'm there I'll be that hairy-faced bugger playing Irish tunes on my blues harps. On the prom tiddley-om-pom-pom.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 27 May 11 - 07:02 AM

*sigh* Why must every thread mentioning festivals turn into a 'Sidmouth Bashing' thread?
I was finding it an interesting topic....till the Sidmouth word was mentioned. I don't understand why people who hate something so much go every year it seems?

*Puts tin helmet on and ducks below parapet*

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 May 11 - 07:12 AM

LDT. Don't worry yourself. There are lots of people with anti Sidmouth agendas out there. It's normally around this time of year that they start bleating. I'm not sure what thir agenda might be, but it means nothing really, the festival still continues anyway! As you say, If you don't like it, don't go! (Or indeed find your own seaside town and start your own festival)

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 May 11 - 07:32 AM

Steve. I am now confused? Who on earth is telling you to buy a season ticket? Who is telling you that you must attend a concert/workshop/whatever?
If you want to spend a week in Sidmouth ....Fine
If you want to attend events.....Fine
If you want to sit on the Prom playing tunes.....Fine
Who exactly is telling you that you can't do what you want to do?
To my knowledge, the people I know turn up Sidmouth to say hello to old mates, hopefully make new ones, play tunes, sing songs, see some top name artists, whilst having a holiday in a very pretty town. What's your problem with that?
I'll repeat myself. If you don't approve, go somewhere else. There are thousands of people who will turn up, as they do every year. Your abscence won't be missed.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 11 - 09:46 AM

Well, Ralphie, there have been posts here... moral obligations and all that. For the record, in answer to the bloke above you, I'm pro-Sidmouth and have no reason to bash the festival. It's grand. It's the attitude expressed by some persons here that somehow I'm not doing my bit if I show up and don't spend dosh on the actual festival that I'm not keen on. That's all. I have shown up on a number of occasions, spent dosh and had a rattling good time. I did once go and not spend dosh, which is fine too, eh?

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 11 - 10:53 AM

For the record (and it's not the first time I've said it) the festival management really values the fringe. As you may know, the festival receives local government support and sponsorship from local businesses. This is in part because of what's known as the "Sidmouth Spike" - an estimated £1.5m of extra revenue which comes into the town during folkweek. If you come, eat, drink, stay locally - you are contributing to the perceived benefit to the town of having the festival there. Of course, the festival is also very grateful for the money contributed to the collecting tins, which helps to pay for some of the provision such as bands and ceilidhs at the Anchor (which are free entry) and street theatre in the town. And people who buy tickets are absolutely essential to the festival's viability. But we have no gripe with those who don't.

I would also add that we publicise fringe venues in the festival programme.


Joan Crump
Artistic Director
Sidmouth FolkWeek

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: ripov
Date: 27 May 11 - 11:54 AM

Mr Schofield, I stand corrected re the Radway. I must buy your book. Although by "session" I meant the meeting of musicians dancers and singers which I had understood were centred around the Radway originally, and at which I have no doubt music was played. I was not suggesting that any sort of music was played in the local pubs before that time, although most pubs in that era had pianos, which might presuppose that there were reasonably competent pianists in the community, if not other instrumentalists, and who played fairly frequently.

I would take issue with you over the history of sessions (but not here), but certainly the festival session where musicians play frantically for several hours until they are exhausted, and are then replaced with fresh blood, the process repeating until the publican wishes to retire, are a modern phenomenon.(although it sounds a bit like a pagan religious rite!)

If local traders profit from the festival (and they may not all do so - I don't see many saucepans bought in that marvellous shop in the middle of Sidmouth) it is only fair that they support the festival either financially or in kind. Name and shame them. If the Radway doesn't support the festival, I for one will neither play nor drink there, regardless of how good the musicians may be.

******

With a couple of exceptions I don't think there has been any "festival bashing".Sidmouth especially has provided examples, because many of us are familiar with it. I referred to the Middlewich programme beacause there was no mention of sessions, but I see on the current pages there are several listed under "Fringe".

The Sidmouth programme also has listed "fringe" session venues recently, and apparently will this year, but there is no mention of this on the (very attractive, but I hope not very expensive) website, nor any mention of workshops or tickets for them. Worrying.

*******

I am upset and annoyed that musicians playing in sessions at festivals are regarded as parasites by some people. They might reflect that the festival is to celebrate the music that we and our predecessors, and our counterparts in other countries, have played through the centuries, whether or not in uninterrupted sequence.

Joan, you know I've said before that we folkies are quite capable of having our own festival without an outside organisation to run it. But I, and all those I know, really do appreciate the effort you put in that we couldn't, most especially the facilities for children to become familiar with music while their parents have the chance to go off and dance and play, and for the more mature young musicians to learn more about the music they play. (for "music" read "almost all art forms!").   Thanks to you all.


See you in Sidmouth! I intend to enjoy it.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 11 - 01:07 PM

I might be there too, but that Ralphie guy sounds a bit scary... ;-)

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 May 11 - 02:47 PM

Steve...Scary I'm not! Lol!
Ripov....a parasite?....Mmmmm sounds tasty.
Actually, this year, I will be part of the various sound crews inhabiting the Bedford and Manor Pavilion. (No Fee) At other times I'll be playing tunes in the Radway. Do come and say hello.
Regards

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 11 - 08:08 PM

Glad to hear it. At six foot nowt I'm only little...

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 11 - 03:45 AM

Ripov, you will be pleased to hear that the new website was not at all expensive as these things go. The design was created for us by Jude Abbot of Chumbawamba (a collective not really known for their capitalist greed) - when she's not making music, she's a web designer. The artwork was created by Bryan Ledgard, as part of his wider brief as designer for the festival. So very cost-efficient.

We only sell advance tickets for some events, so these are the ones currently advertised on the website. When the full programme is on sale next month it will, as always, be downloadable from the website, and all information about workshops and fringe venues (and many other events) will be there.

Joan Crump

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 09:33 AM

Much of what you say makes a lot of sense ripov. How was Sidmouth?

Chris

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: LesB
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 12:46 PM

Why has this thread become 'another Sidmouth thread'? The world doesn't start & and at Sidmouth. There are plenty of other festivals out there.
For my tu pence worth. If we are talking about sessions (singing or playing) at festivals, then the money spent on food/drink/accomadation, goes into the local economy. Not the festival bank account.
I feel that if sessions are held at a festival then it is beholding of the participants to contribute something financially to the festival (even if only passing a collecting tin around). Otherwise there won't be a festival & it'll just be a bunch of people meeting in a pub (although there is now't wrong with that).
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 07:26 PM

We ARE talking about BOTH singing or playing sessions at festivals Les.

Clumsily I entered a thread title that was far too long ("How many wandering musicians/singers can't find a session?")but because it was far too long it came out as "How many wandering musicians/singers can" (see start of this thread)!

So I contacted Joe Offer to see if he could help me out so it made more sense and Joe very kindly reduced the typo as much as possible but it wasn't possible to include the "/singers" as well.

Joe did a great job and I am very grateful for his interjection and it was my silly fault for not thinking when I posted the thread in the first place. Doh!

So please do take into account that we are looking at the needs of BOTH musicians AND singers here and not just musicians.

Hope that makes some sense and clears up any confusion.

Many thanks.

Chris

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 07:50 PM

Oh dear. Unless my eyes deceive me I've just realised that ALL the typo here on Mudcat has got smaller! Better go to Specsavers!

Hope I aren't to blame and all other typo size was changed to come into line so folk can post longer titles like mine. If so, I apologise in advance if you don't like it.

Chris

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST,Ted Crum (Steamchicken)
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:10 PM

Try the Moor and Coast tent. Almost always a nexus of music after the pubs shut.

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:44 PM

Howya Ted. My chrom playing has improved no end... ;-)

Steve (Martin's mate...)

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:48 PM

I am that guest. Flippin' BT fon or whatever it calls itself...

Subject: RE: How many wandering musicians can't find a session?
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 06:43 AM

well in the UK (Mid West parts thereof) you could try cresby.com and if my lists are not enough try the numerous links I provide to other information junkies. Both around my area and further a-field. I even have links to Scandinavia and parts of North America.

And if you want to find all that I list within a radius of a chosen town try my "found here" page and choose a town/village.