Buying a new Martin guitar

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:47 AM

When I bought my first decent guitar, I was trying all the £2k Martins, but they all sounded remarkably similar to my £350 Takemine. Then I tried a brand I had never heard of - Lowden - and was blown away, so got that. The only new Martin I've been jealous of was a £5k one a civil servant friend of mine had. But that's a hell of a lot to pay for a name, seeing as it only just edged the Lowden...

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:10 AM

CJ - I've got a Lowden and two Martins, (had more of each but some had to go to make way for the current herd).

I love them equally, for different reasons. They are very different in appearance and sound, but I don't consider one brand as being 'better' or 'worse' than the other - they're just 'different' (and, of course, that's precisely why I have the two brands, for their very different properties).

I think what you're really saying is that the Lowden sound (and perhaps appearance?) appeals to you more than the Martin sound. Others might disagree. But either way, that doesn't mean that 'Lowdens are better than Martins', or vice-versa, it just means that what suits one person may not suit another.

You can't really say that Brand A "blew away" Brand B, because you're comparing apples and oranges - if you say that you prefer the sound of Brand A over Brand B, that makes sense because sound is subjective, what my ears hear is different to what someone else may hear. If you compare individual guitars of the same model/brand, then I'd agree that one may 'blow away' the other, but to say that, for example, "Martins blow away Taylors" is arrant nonsense - it's a case of one man's meat etc., and whilst some love the Martin sound, there are just as many others who love the Taylor sound, and they are all right!

So the answer is to play lots of guitars and buy the one which sounds, looks and feels good to you, irrespective of the name on the headstock, and bollocks to what everyone else says.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:11 AM

I didn't say any of those things, Backwoodsman.

My guitar, which happens to be a Lowden, "blew away" all the Martins I tried (and the Taylors and whatever else was there) and I've only played one modern Martin which I liked as much as my Lowden.

But that's that. If I were choosing a guitar without hearing it (which I wouldn't do) of co course I'd choose Lowden over Martin, as all my experience tells me they are more for me. But, in actuality I'd listen in fairly beforehand of course.

I've probably only played 7 or 8 Martins, I guess I've just been unlucky in getting the unwieldly clunkers.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 11:54 AM

CJ, as I said, I own both Lowden (this is my second)and Martin (these are my 4th and 5th), have done for 12 years or more, all fine instruments, but none 'blows the others away' because they're all good in their own way. They're not in competition, they complement each other and live happily side-by-side.

But each to his own.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: mayomick
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 12:37 PM

If you go for an expensive guitar , don't scrimp on buying new strings for it. I recently played a friend's Martin that he had been praising ever since he'd bought it about a year ago . He hadn't changed the strings in that time .In my opinion it sounded worse than the guitar I have which cost less than two hundred euro .

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:28 PM

Ain't that the truth, MayoMick.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: saulgoldie
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:39 PM

While back, I went in search of a Martin. The guy at HOMT sold me on an Alvarez Yari, which I have been very happy with. But I have always wondered...

If YOU are set on a Martin, then I suggest you get one. Or YOU may always be wondering.

Saul

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 01:34 PM

I am now seriously considering a Faith FMEHG

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 02:08 PM

If it TALKS to you, it may well be right for you. That's how Travelling Charles got his Tak - which I hated. I thought it sounded like a banjo - but it recorded well.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 03:13 PM

Woodsie, Hi there man...don't spend all that pay-off at once: it's amazing how quickly it evaporates :-)

Great advice from many...in paerticvular from Will Fly and Richard Bridge.

The Martin I used to bring to Seven Stars is very similar to Will fly's and although the back and sides are HLP, the soundboard is spruce. It's correct that it won't "open up" with age, but it's a perfectly decent guitar.

The Ian Chisholm I bring to Seven Stars on the few occasions I can now get there is superb. I believe it was under your originally stated max price when new ( I bought it second-hand) and for a custom-made hand-built jobbie with cocobolo back and sides and a spruce top I'd say it was a value that couldn't be beat...you might want to consider asking Ianto quote for making you one. His lead-time is a few months but it's much shorter than some of the more "known" names. I've played 4 of the guitars he's made now and they're ALL, without exception, superb:
Ian Chisholm

And here's Ian and Will taking my guitar for a "run" before it became mine:

My Chisholm Guitar No 30

It's truly worth having a word with Ian if you have £1500 to spend on a guitar!

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:54 AM

Nice guitar, and very nice playing, Will!

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Brian May
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:26 AM

+1 on that. I just love good quality 'plain Jane' guitars. That's a cracker. Beautifully played.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 05:34 AM

Hopefully I will be going to Guitar Village & Andertons in Surrey tomorrow to spend some time trying out their wares - also interested in the Marshall 50 watt acoustic amp.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: morning wood
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:22 AM

Out of interest a while ago I purchased a fake Marti(a)n from tradetang.com in China. I got a fake D45 for approx £220 landed in the UK. Apart from a few finishing flaws, and the headstock wasn't square, it actually wasn't bad and certainly played ok out the box, but it was no Martin. The only thing missing at a glance to tell it wasn't a Martin is the internal labels or laser etching on the heal block. It had fake grover tuners etc. I think they're certainly good enough to catch the uninitiatted buying on Ebay or from a non-authorised source etc. And as more leak through (I think I contributed to that!) It'll get worse.

Fake Marti(a)n 1
Fake Marti(a)n 2

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Blues=Life
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:42 AM

Personally, I love the Tacoma guitars as the best bang for the buck. Pity they stopped making them.

Best advice I can give you came from Frank Zappa:

"Guitar Player magazine, 1983: What do you look for in a guitar?

Frank Zappa: If you pick up a guitar and it says, "Take me, I'm yours," then that's the one for you. You don't go into a guitar store and say, "Hey, what a great paint job." You have to put it in your hand, because a real guitar that's going to be something you make music on — as opposed to a piece of machinery that makes you look good onstage — is going to have some relationship to your hand and body. It feels right when you pick it up. And that's the way I felt when I got the first SG that I had. It felt right in my hand, so I got it. Same thing with the Gibson Les Paul.

Guitar Player: Will you overlook such things as lousy pickups?

Zappa: Well, you can always change the pickups."

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:03 AM

Here's the Ian Chisholm guitar I play in sessions - No. 18 from his hands. The piece is called, appropriately enough... "No. 18"!

"No. 18"

Indian rosewood back & sides, Lutz spruce face.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 10:20 AM

Kewl!
Will, what are you listening to in the vid.? Click track?

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Brian May
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 10:58 PM

I think he's probably a bit like The Stig . . .

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: ollaimh
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:06 PM

i have played some new martine high end models recently and i was disapointed. rumour has it they ship the duds to canada--and maybe the uk. maybe you're better off with ebay from the usa.

on the other haqnd back in the ninties i played a few that were sizzling guitars.

howver in the uk there are a lot of very good guitar makers that aren't as expensive. i saw mathew ord playing a moon guitar at the sharp house and it was a great finger pickers instrument.

again the d 28s and d 18s are mostly flaypicker instruments. most don't have the balance between the trebble and bass that finger style guitarists want. the triple 0 models and the oms are more for finger style playing.

i have played a couple of newer laminate martins that i thought were great for the price but also a few that were dead as a doornail.

over there i would look closely at the uk makers. many have really developed there own great sound and construction techniques. however the high end martins do retain their resale value--people really collect them.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:07 PM

I finger-pick both my OM and HD. Both work fine.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:23 PM

I don't believe that any reputable builder sets out to produce 'duds'. I believe they intend every single instrument to be top quality, however they are built by human beings and they use organic materials, and the performance of both these elements may vary slightly. I may be lucky, but I don't recall ever hearing a Martin that I'd describe as a 'dud' - the worst I've heard I'd describe as 'good', some as 'excellent', and a few as 'stellar'. And I reckon I'd do the same if I was rating a selection of any builders' instruments. Anything built by humans, and especially built from organic materials, will be subject to some variation between individual examples - anything.

And I don't believe that any reputable builder, let alone one of the biggest internationally-known builders, would deliberately offload sub-standard product to Canada, the UK or anywhere else. It doesn't make good business sense. I think that rumour is another example of the horseshit-bullshit about quality-builders (not just Martin, I've heard unbelievable tales about Gibson, et al) put around by people who either can't afford or are too tight-arsed to pay for whatever brand they're slagging off.

People talk the same shite about brands of cars which are different to theirs.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Brian May
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

Must agree with that. Some of the worst criticism I've heard of Martins, Gibsons, Taylors et al are from people who've not owned one.

The other 'school' are people who've chosen and then need to convince everyone else that only THEIR choice is valid.

What a load of bollocks. Buy what you can afford, enjoy what you've bought and don't slag anyone else's choice, it was a free one and every bit as valid as yours.

Rant over.

Have fun

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 07:47 PM

Actually, to get a guitar that will ruv you rongtime you probably need to spend more than you can afford. Don't look at the labels, don't look at the pricetags, don't look at the decoration or inlays, do it blindfold if you must - just play and listen, and remember that a good guitar tech can fix most playability problems.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:25 AM

I went to Andertons in Guildford and spent a few hours trying various guitars and came away with this one Faith although I didn't pay the price stated.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 03:34 AM

"Don't look at the labels, don't look at the pricetags, don't look at the decoration or inlays, do it blindfold if you must - just play and listen, and remember that a good guitar tech can fix most playability problems."

Amen to that.

And another good principle is "Don't be put off by other peoples' criticism of a brand of instrument to which you're attracted, and of which you enjoy the sound and playability". Their criticism can frequently be shown to be based on nothing other than rumours and/or The Green-Eyed Monster.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 04:31 AM

I have heard some good ones. Will you take it to Knockers so I can hear it or is it going to be coddled and kept for best? Do get it Rodgered. If nothing needs doing he will tell you so (it's what he did on Monsieur le Chapeau's Tanglewood 12 if my memory serves me).

You should play it every day if possible. At the very least pick it up, tune it up, and belt power chords up to the octave and back. The wood needs to be wiggled to make it ring like a bell. Rodgers also has a wiggling machine - put the guitar on it and it vibrates it (oooh matron) to speed the opening up of the sound. Or put it by your hifi speakers so long as you listen to the hifi loud, so that they can musically wiggle the wood for you.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: banksie
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 05:17 AM

I will pass on some advice I was given by a salesman at Ivor Mairants' shop in Rathbone Place, London, many years ago now. I was helping a friend buy a new guitar and we tried several, including a Martin D28. Someone earlier used the word `mushy' as a description of how that can sometimes sound and it was certainly true of this one. In fact is sounded quite `dead', and I observed this to the salesman.

"Well, it's a new one," he said. "Never buy a new Martin if you mean to perform with it straight away. Buy it before you need it, keep it at home and thrash the hell out of it for a year. Then it will start to sound good."

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 05:42 AM

Banksie: I'd put my D 28 away for I am ashamed to say 25 years. When I started playing it again it was dull, 'mushy', dead. About a year later it sounded as good as it ever did. And I've since heard it in the hands of a really good guitarist and it is beautiful.

Good advice.

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 06:25 AM

I'm a firm believer that any guitar will "go to sleep" if it's not played for some time. Even my Lowden, normally Like-a Ringin'-a Bell (as Chuck once wrote), does it. Dull as ditchwater if left in its case for a week or two or three, but Like-a Ringin'-a Bell again after an hour or two of playing.

My problem isn't the lack of will to play them all, it's lack of time. Grrrr!

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 06:26 AM

OK Richard, I have to ask - where does one go to have one's guitar Rodgered (in the nicest possible way, of course!). :-)

Subject: RE: Buying a new Martin guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 06:37 AM

Brian Rodgers, Walderslade. Some very good guitarists bring theirs the entire length of the country to have him do them. PM me if you want his number but he is out of the country at the moment.