 sj |
||
|
||
Multiple Personality Disorder
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:32 PM ljc - I'll PM you some info on why some of us use a generic name or a pseudonym. And for everyone else, remember that we can use the personal messages for communicating. It's still not foolproof from stalkers, but you can choose how much personal info to share. As an aside...has anyone seen any research which diagnoses or somehow chronicles the "personalities" seen in various web postings? I have my theories, and like Bert, I can recognize certain "characteristics" or "adjectives" (wouldn't be polite to engage in name-calling here), but I'd really be interested in learning more from someone who knows more about psychology. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:35 PM oops...sorry...I'm singing the ISP Blues today. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: MMario Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:36 PM Mary - if forensics can analyze a personality from the text of a ransom note (which is possible now, suppossedly) I am sure that comparisions of posting would easily determine whether or not someone was posting, faux posting, whatever. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Jon Freeman Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:51 PM MMario, I am another who is not here for the personal relationships but that it not to say that I haven't enjoyed the ones that have occured - I veiw them as a bonus. I think the most important point to remember here is that although they can and DO occur, no one is obliged to enter into such things. A persons involvement here in terms of contributions and entering into any of the more social aspects is entirely optional and people are left to be themselves. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker Date: 21 Sep 00 - 02:39 PM Little John, what part of "fun" did you not understand? "I don't understand" can mean two very different things. 1. I don't have enough information yet. 2. I have all the information I need but I don't like what I'm hearing. I think your "I don't understand" and Sean Ruprecht-Belt's fall into category #2. Remember, my claim is that you either get it or you don't. If you don't think roller coasters are fun, nothing I say is gonna change that. I approach Mudcat quite differently from some of the participants in this thread. I knew that before I started it. At this point in the thread I am making a strong claim: ones approach to Mudcat is a matter of personal taste, NOT ethics or morals. My approach to Mudcat his no more moral/ethical ramifications than my choice of shirt this morning. Since this is my view, I can truthfully say that I don't care how you, the reader of this post, handle Mudcat, No more than I care what color socks you are wearing. If I were concerned with your sock color, you'd definitely think that was weird and you would be justifiably nervous about the thought of getting to know me. If you disagree with this view, at some point you must get beyond variations on "I don't like what you are saying." Sean Ruprecht-Belt , how does my unflinching honesty on this thread show that I am NOT treating Mudcatters like real people. MMario. I am not afraid of relationships. I do, however, studiously avoid relationships with people who display certain warning signs. I have a few personal rules, e.g., Never play poker with anyone who owns a gun and talks to it, Avoid eye contact with people talking to invisible friends in bus stations, Avoid offline entanglements with people who don't appreciate the fundamental differences between internet and face-to-face interactions. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,"Cracker" Date: 21 Sep 00 - 03:35 PM Mary asked, "As an aside...has anyone seen any research which diagnoses or somehow chronicles the "personalities" seen in various web postings? I have my theories, and like Bert, I can recognize certain "characteristics" or "adjectives" (wouldn't be polite to engage in name-calling here), but I'd really be interested in learning more from someone who knows more about psychology." Well Mary, in my "real life" I do a bit of that, and if I was to attempt a profile- for entertainment purposes only, as the TV psychic ads say- I'd do it the following way regarding "Guest, Phantom Lurker". The phrase "what part of (whatever) didn't you understand"? is almost always used by women. The person appears to have been here for quite some time, is often displeased with the group's behaviour, probably voices it occasionally, but seeks anonymity when really angry, so as not to jeopardize their position. My guess is that folkmusic is very important to them, and superficial talk- especially when "people who should know better" enjoy the banter- drives them to distraction. I'd look for signed postings by someone who constantly trumpets their moral superiority and uses phrases like "unflinching honesty" (and probably many others implying the same) Finally I'd check for threads started by unfamiliar names, directly or obliquely criticizing another member. (or group of members) My work often involves handwriting, but typers leave clues as well. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:08 PM Cracker - Dead on. Really scary. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:11 PM It's weird how different sets of people on different fora can react so differently to the same question - because of past history of the site. Because the above comment was posted by a guest, a lot of people were automatically suspicious about the intentions of the author. On this other site I mentioned before, there are a lot more trolls - who are more upfront with their nastiness. So a troll would never post a harmless comment like that and nobody would be suspicious. In fact it would (and indeed has) generate a very interesting discussion about how we act roles in our lives. Also, because it has pretty much given up the idea that the forum must only tackle movie related topics, we discuss a much wider range of topics than here. So a question like the above wouldn't be treated hostilely (is that a word?) because it was off-topic. Anyway, I would be sad if the history of this site led to an over suspicion and paranoia on this site, so I try to take all posts at face value. And it is the one thing that really annoys the trolls - refusing to get riled up by them. BTW - Bagpuss is pretty much me - though leaning towards the childish and fun side of my personality. Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:18 PM Forgot to say - playing roles or having multiple personae doesn't necessarily mean being deceitful or deliberately hurtful to people. It can just be fun. In fact one of the few internet people I have met up with has about 5 different handles on the one site - and she is one of the nicest people I know. Elsewhere I have a handle called The Devil's Advocate - who does nothing but argue with people all the time. No matter what the subject. Nobody takes offence because the name makes it quite clear what the poster is about - and most of them know it's me and sometimes I just enjoy a good argument for its own sake. It is great fun too. The DA had everyone logically convinced that there was no such thing as free will the other week. Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: MMario Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:21 PM P-Lurker. I guess part of the reason I don't "appreciate the fundamental differences between internet and face-to-face interactions" is that I really cannot see much different between relationships formed over the internet and those I formed via letters, phone conversations and reel-to-reel tape exchanges when I was young. Or those my parents formed and maintained in the same manner. These people were part of the day to day lives of my family - yet I was in my late teens before I met most of them face to face. (Some I have not met ftf yet) I know two people who correspond weekly who have met face to face only twice in their lives; and one of those times the second person was a new-born. But they are involved in each others live, involved in each others families lives, and have been for decades. to restrict yourself to friends who can only be face-to-face seems to be extremely limiting to me. Of course I do expect a certain level of honesty. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: mousethief Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:25 PM Why should one expect people who are phony online to be "real" (honest, earnest, etc.) in ftf meetings? The internet is not a different kind of human being. It is a communications tool, like the telephone system or the postal service. I fail to see 1. what's "fun" about being phony, and 2. what the big difference is between "online" and "real life." Then again I "met" my current wife through a BBS (anybody remember those?), which would have never been possible if either of us were putting on a phony persona. So my ideas about "online reality" and such may be a bit skewed.
Alex
|
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:33 PM Playing roles doesn't make you a phony - as long as you make it clear what you are doing. I like to think of it as putting on my different *heads*. Theres my fun and silly head, my argumentative head and my passionate head. They are all part of me, but I find putting different names to them online gives people a clue as to where I am coming from in each post. I've never been anyone but bagpuss here btw. Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: MMario Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:42 PM Bagpuss- no argument there. given your conditions, that is. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:46 PM So role playing is fine - as long as *you* don't suspect the motives of the player...? Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker Date: 21 Sep 00 - 05:10 PM Bagpuss, you get it. Would you be willing to share the details about the other forum you spoke so highly of? I would be interested in lurking there too. I will understand if you decline. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: mousethief Date: 21 Sep 00 - 05:28 PM I guess you'll have to count me as one who doesn't get it. Role playing is for games. Mudcat is not a game, but a meeting place. The two don't seem to be related in my mind.
Clueless in Seattle, |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bill D Date: 21 Sep 00 - 05:30 PM If I were a Psych major and needed a Masters thesis topic, I'd just just come here and sort thru almost 4 years of threads and relationships/personas..... Having been a regular in a chatroom several years ago, till it died, I KNOW that various people approach online personalities differently...some are simply unable to accept that there are real people on the other end. They treat it like some play they are writing, and say anything... with no concern for consequences. I have watched as people fell in love....had affairs...got married...broke up...and even died(not all the same people)- as their online 'friends' watched. And some of those online 'friends' stayed faceless and aloof from it...while others cried and made real trips to share part of their lives....it is no different here. We have varying abilities to cope, absorb, intuit, share, care and, maybe most important, to *hear* what others are feeling and saying without simply projecting 'agendas' on it all... I wonder sometimes if maybe those who do multiple personas actually adopt a different attitude for each.... ..(the internet/WWW is not old enough yet for most people to work out all the protocalls needed, I suspect...maybe when the 20-somethings grow up) |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: little john cameron Date: 21 Sep 00 - 05:32 PM Wee storyAh while,TRUE. A while ago ah came across a really nice web site by a young lassie in the states that was concerned with Scotland an Castles in particular. She also had lovely poetry an made Celtic jewellery.She seemed tae me tae be a beautiful spirit,an ayh aye enjoyed visitin her web site. Ane day ah logged in an the site wis gone!!!Efter checkin back a few times there appeared on the scene,a letter fae a freen o hers explainin whit had happened. It turned oot that she had been emailing for a long time wi an aulder man in Australia.They hit it off thegither and the relationship became serious. In order tae see if the relationship wid continue in real life they decided that he wid come tae the States an see whit transpired then.The date wis set an as the time fur the meetin approached she was very excited aboot meetin the wonderfull man. Eventually the time came an she went tae the airport tae meet him. Nae sign o him,so she checked the dates in case she had them mixed up in her excitement.Weel tae cut a long story short,he never turned up efter aw. She emailed him numerous times,bit got nae reply.She remembered that he had told her aboot a dochter he had so she got her address an wrote tae see if he was awricht as he didnae keep too weel,an she wis worried aboot him. The dochter never knew onything aboot it an telt her no tae be botherin her faither onymare. The puir lass wis hertbroke. Efter a while she stertit emailin him again as she couldnae believe that he didnae want tae hear fae her ony mair.Anyway, efter a while he replied an said that tae grow up an that it wis aw jist a fantasy atween them an that wis it.The gemme wis ower. Her web site is back up noo an she seems tae be ok,bit ah wid say it will be a lang time afore she trusts anyane again. Ye can fid her at "Junes Castle in the Sky> ljc |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: harpgirl Date: 21 Sep 00 - 06:36 PM ...the only research on web based behavior that I am familiar with is by Susan Herring. She says among othere things that males make up 98% of the aggressive postings. Males are also more likely to masquerade as women. True or not, I don't know. My guess is the lurker is male. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:37 PM That should hae been "Junes castle in the CLOUDS.Sorry aboot that. ljc |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: bflat Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:01 PM MMario....bravo for Honesty! Not enough going around. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Lonesome EJ Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:30 PM I'm me and no one else LEJ |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Lonesome EJ Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:35 PM That makes two of us -Blake Madison er...three... -Robert E Leej four? -Billy the Trid OK! Five,but that's all! -Blondy Six? -Lazarus Ezekiel Jones |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Ebbie Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:37 PM This is the first forum/chat/whatever site that I have joined and I remember when mudcatters, the people on the other side of the screen, were not quite real to me, as though I made them up daily. (The only reason that might explain it is that not only do I read extensively but I also write. So in that sense, I 'make up people'.) However, it didn't take long before that all changed. The emotions- the laughter, the tears, the fears, the grief, the very sharing of each one's essence- come across the ether so clearly there is no way I could have continued to feel that way. Speaking of essence, maybe that's why phantom lurker, et al, is so dismaying to me. Where is his/her essence? For the record, I have never used any name but Ebbie, unless I gave my real name in PMs. I agree that role playing can be fun- it is what acting is, no doubt. But it belongs on the stage or in a clearly labeled face to face parlor game. Where's the fun in misleading people by the written word? It is only fun, IMO, when one is able to stay flawlessly in character- when everyone present knows that you are not really an alien or an angel or a butterfly magically brought to human life but after awhile you are able to make them begin to wonder! Phantom Lurker, maybe you're a frustrated thespian, so I won't say to you: Get a life. Instead I'll say: Go play. Here is not the right place. IMO. Ebbie |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,CLETUS Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:59 PM I dunno nuthin bowt bein nobody septin me an I doan holt wif sumbuddy what aint whatever they izzint er nuthin likin thet. The onliest reeson whut Ize got me no cookie iz cuz Max doan wanna go to jail fer cuntributin ta the stupidity of an idjit. I think thaz whut he sed ennyway. CLETUS |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: CarolC Date: 21 Sep 00 - 11:35 PM Guest, Phantom Lurker: You said something in your 9/12, 11:12am post that I think is very key. You said, "To put it bluntly, I am a Mudcat guest because all I want is a mutually enjoyable one-night stand". In light of the fact that numerous Mudcat members have told you that they don't enjoy what you are doing, and no members have said that they do enjoy it, I guess a better word to use as an analogy for what you are doing would be "rape". Carol |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: The Beanster Date: 22 Sep 00 - 12:46 AM DougR--LOL I do think it would be politically incorrect to refer to someone suffering from DID as "nuttier than a Baby Ruth." Phantom Lurker--I do believe now that your initial question was sincere and I retract my accusation that you had no real interest in hearing others' opinions on this topic. I don't think I agree with you that taking on whatever persona strikes your fancy at the moment is always a harmless undertaking, however. If Phantom Lurker-A, B or C states a particular (pseudo) opinion which is then replied to by someone who believes the sentiment behind it is real, that person has obviously has taken the time to put genuine feelings and thought into the reply. Given the fact that Phantom Lurker's opinion was never truly felt in the first place, Phantom Lurker has now, by eliciting a genuine response to a non-genuine post, trampled upon the honesty or trust (if you want to call it that) that can and I think, should, exist in a forum like Mudcat. What I mean is, if I read a posting here, I automatically assume it is sincere and if I have a strong enough reaction to it, I'll reply. If the post is not sincere, however, and someone was just "role playing" for the sake of mucking around, I have wasted my time and effort on something that was in essence, a joke in the first place. And the joke is on me. Granted, I'll probably never find this out--so you say, what's the harm? The harm may come not to me, because like I said, I'll probably never know it was a bogus post. But if I were on this forum doing what you seem to be doing, I would feel a sizeable pang of conscience, knowing that I had deceived someone. BUT--if you have a strong antisocial bent with little empathy or conscience, you will not feel this twinge of guilt... |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,"Cracker" Date: 22 Sep 00 - 01:21 AM Found your female flamer. I don't want to go giving away tricks of my trade, but I left a little bait in my other post, and it was taken. Ten minutes of research provided the answer. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 22 Sep 00 - 06:59 AM Phantom Lurker: its' a site called Mr Cranky rates the Movies - www.mrcranky.com. You might find the new release forums full of idiots - but keep an eye out for the following people: Tick, Philm Phan, jen, Dick Nixon, Junk Yard Dog, Wolfman and Zorro (and me - KT) and you should find some interesting conversations. I am currently conversing about nothing much in the following forums - The Full Monty, I'm Not Rappaport (where unfortunately, we have just had a monster 10,000 post thread deleted :-(), When Harry Met Sally and a hidden forum that I can't tell you about till we decide you're not going to troll too much!! Avoid a poster called Liquid Sunshine like the plague. He is poisonous. The film reviews are hilarious too - enjoy. You have to be a member to post, but it's easy enough to get multiple accounts, by using hotmail accounts. Let me know what handle you choose and I'll say hi to you there. Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Jeri Date: 22 Sep 00 - 09:03 AM I can understand how people who like to explore other personalities would try to become them for a while, but I don't think that's what happens with anonymous flamers. Their personas don't bounce off other people the same way they do in the physical world, only their words do. So what it comes down to is someone who enjoys making people react a certain way. You may enjoy manipulating those who react honestly to your less-than-honest opinions. You may feel like you're in control. If I worried about that every time I answered a message, I'd never send anything out, and I'd be one paranoid puppy. (And yes, many of us have done that here and we wind up suspecting everyone and accidentally flaming the innocent.) I'm not going to allow myself to get to that point. My intention is to respond honestly, and if you've taken me in with a persona, you've done no more than you would have if you'd posted a true opinion. Guest PL, my opinion is that you're here for the relationships more than the topics. This is because your emphasis is on personas and how you discuss things, not what's being discussed. You said "To be brutally honest, people who attempt to satisfy their need for such relationships at a place like Mudcat make me very nervous." So some people make good friends here, while you like "one-night stands." The type of relationship is different, but it sounds like you're still here for some type of relationship. Have you considered that you're having one-night stands with the same people over and over again?
|
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: bbelle Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:05 AM CarolC ... "rape" - spot-on analogy! "Cracker" ... so this means that you can find out who anyone on the mudcat is, even those who post honestly with a nickname, but may have a reason for not wanting their real name known. That's scarey. What do you suppose "brutally honest" means? I've had those words said to me, in the last five months, and there was nothing "honest" about them. Guest PL ... I may have been fearful and terrified, at times, recently, but nervous? Never. And who is "their?" Let's name some names, here, of people who would classify as "their." I don't know any "their." Even though I've made an effort to meet several mudpeople inperson and I talk "live" with several more, the others are real to me (for the most part) and don't have to present themselves inperson or via telephone, for me to consider them real. And, you know what else? Even if there are mudpeople, who have found a community and are thriving on that community, SO WHAT! It's not up to you to decided who is valuable enough to be on the mudcat. It's not up to anyone to decide that. "You" are who is not "real." "You" are whose valuable contribution consists of telling the rest of us why the mudcat is a haven for the misbegotten. So, go ahead and flame me, I've toughened up a bit and have no doubts about "my" identity. BTW, I have posted as Guest a few times because of my fear of "you." But my fear of "you" is not so dreadful, as what I consider a sham on my part. People who know me well, know my words, so it wasn't a secret to them, and if anyone else had asked, I would have told them it was me. Another BTW ... I haven't always felt this way and particularly when I had my trust in stripped away. But, through the help of a few mudpeople, I know the difference between what is and what ain't. So, PL ... you should probably be pitied. And, Cracker ... why don't you put your skills to better use. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:18 AM I really, honestly find the rape analogy a terrible thing to use. People have complained about the term Folk Nazi - and I find this just as offensive. Anyone who has actually been raped would know that this is nothing like it. Just because some people here have used the guest feature to use multiple handle in order to hurt and abuse, doesn't mean that everyone who posts under different names does it for the same reason or effect. The person I mentioned before who has multiple handles and I have met in real life has only just told me who one of her other handles is. And I had been debating with this persona for some time. I didn't get angry with her. No matter what persona you play, I think most people can tell if you are doing it for ill effect or for the fun of it - a piece of your main personality always shines through. Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: mousethief Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:31 AM "Honest" and "anonymous" just don't fit together in my brain. It's like sitting in a tree, taunting somebody who can't climb. You know you're safe and can say whatever you want, with no accountability because the person can't climb up there and clean your clock. The other words that come to mind are "cowardice" and "bully." But the real problem is the adverb "brutally" -- to be brutal is to be violent and cruel. Why would anybody want to do that to another human? One answer, of course, is that they are playing a head-game wherein they don't believe they are really talking to another human being. It's just a "persona" on the web they think they're interacting with, not another human with a family, feelings, personal history, etc. This is why I think this whole "persona" business is of questionable morality. The other word that comes to mind from all this (besides "rape" which may indeed be too strong) is "stalking." Moonjen - hang in there! There are good and honest people to be found on the web (I know, I married one!).
cheeseless in Seattle, |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Mbo Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:35 AM Hey you, up in the tree D'you want to be me? Well that couldn't be 'Cause the people here They don't hear you caaaaaaaalling... |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Bagpuss Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:45 AM I don't understand how being anonymous necessarily precludes honesty. For example - if I hadn't given any personal details here, then I would be anonymous. But that wouldn't be dishonest. I've noticed that some people here only use the guest thingy when they do want to be honest about something, but they feel that if they did it under their usual name, it would cause too much personal unpleasantness if they did so. And I see nothing wrong in that. It is an entirely different thing when people use different names solely to stir up trouble. But that is a problem I have with trolls and trouble-makers - not with people who have many handles. And I don't think we should confuse the issue. If I turned up and used the guest prefix and the name "The Mad Punster" and did nothing but post puns under that name then I don't think people would have a problem with it - regardless if they knew it was me or not. It's how people post and what they say that is important. Bagpuss |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: katlaughing Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:50 AM Moonjen, just so you know, "mudpeople" is one of the favourite *buzzwords* of the white supremacist movement used to describe persons of colour. I mean you no offense and know you didn't mean it that way. What you read is what you get with me; the whole enchilada. Of course, there is also the airhead Valley Girl, Ditzee Lee who shows up as a guest now and then, usually trying to clean up Cletus so he can get a date.*bg* kat |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: mousethief Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:52 AM Perhaps I didn't make my point clear. If what you post is going to cause personal unpleasantness, and is brutal, maybe you should consider whether to post it at all. Going anonymous to "allow" yourself to post things you'd be better off not posting is dishonest. But what do I know? Like I said, I've grown out of such head games.
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker Date: 22 Sep 00 - 10:55 AM God, I love this thread!!!! Not getting it is NOT the problem, if you who do NOT get it could take a live and let live, whatever turns you on, let a hundred flowers bloom, sort attitude about it. Not getting it causes problems (but not for me) when you insist on making so many assumptions that put whatever you don't get into a bad light...when you insist in STEREOTYPING what you don't get. Little John tells a very sad story about a chatroom relationship gone bad. In the context of this strand he is tacitly accusing me of being the same sort of person as the cad in his story. Am I the only person who sees that as uncalled for in light of what is transpired on this thread? bflat cheers "bravo for Honesty!" So I am dishonest? On a scale of 1 to 10, how dishonest is a person who admits that she uses different pseuydonyms? As compared to someone who does so but does not admit it? As compared to someone who (at least claims that she) uses just one pseudonym, As compared to someonw who (at least claims) that he uses his real name. Ebbie says "Where's the fun in misleading people by the written word?" and "Go play. Here is not the right place." Three questions: whom have I mislead, how have they been mislead, and what harm has resulted IN THIS THREAD by the misleading? These are not rhetorical questions. My curiousity has been piqued. A number of participants in this thread are strongly disturbed by my "coming out." What exactly disturbs you and why? The problem seems to be an honesty thing, but simply to call something dishonest isn't enough. IMHO dishonesty is not always a bad thing. If someone I really care about asks me if I LIKE the dress she has just purchased and is clearly so happy with, it is better for me to dishonestly say "Yes" than honestly say "No." "No" will simply make her feel bad to no good end. CarolC - Nice shot. But... Where does name calling get us? What I am doing doesn't seem the least bit like rape to me. There is clearly no sex involved in the exchanges on this thread. I was up front when I started the thread. The people currently participating are here of their own free will. No one is being forced to participate in this thread. Beanster - thanks for paying attention. Unfortunagely you give with the left hand and take away with the right. You were willing to take seriously the idea that I am sincerely intested in hearing the opinions of others. But then you call my post "non-genuine." You make an excellent criticism of people who lie when they state their opinions in a forum. But that is not the point. My initial question was about people who use multiple pseudonyms. There go the assumptions again. You are assuming that I use multiple pseudonyms so that I can lie to Mudcatters and stir things up. I never said that. You also want to believe that I am antisocial and with little empathy or conscience. Why are you so anxious to believe such things of me? Bagpuss. Thanks for your trust. I'll see you there. Jeri - your post discusses "anonymous flamers"? What flaming have I done here? You refer to my "less-than-honest-opinions." Where do you get the idea that I have been dishonest in this thread? Dishonesty would be the easy way to deal with it. All I have to do is say "Oh gosh, you all were right and I am wrong. I have seen the error of my ways. I will never lurk anonymously again. Thank you, thank you, thank you." and sign the post with a bogus but apparently real name. Now THAT would be dishonest. You accuse me of being manipulative but who in this thread is being manipulated and how? I am sincerely interested in your REASONS for being disturbed by my initial posting. I am not particularly interested in hearing all the different ways of saying "I don't like what you are doing." Unfortunately, explaining your reasons will probably be difficult because you probably are not clear about them yourself. But I certainly appreciate any attempt you are willing to make. Finally, I truly do not care what assumptions you make about me as "Phantom Lurker." It really is just water off a duck's back. But some of the assumptions some of you are making do worry me. I am not worried about me. I am worried about you. Internet interactions are NOT just like face to face interactions only faster. What is going on at Mudcat and a million other sites like it is significantly different from anything human beings have ever done before. The rules are truly DIFFERENT. If you are naive about this you could be in for serious problems. MMario, internet relationships really are SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT from "those I formed via letters, phone conversations and reel-to-reel tape exchanges when I was young." If a child of mine were say what you said in your post of 21-Sep-00 - 04:21 PM, I would immediatley throw every computer in the house into a dumpster. John Cameron's story (assuming that it is true) is a perfect example of what happens if you are not sufficiently paranoid about your network relationships. When all was said and done, all that the lady had dealt with was WORDS ON A SCREEN. Thanks for you time and opinions. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: mousethief Date: 22 Sep 00 - 11:17 AM I must disagree with your final sentence, Phantom. Words don't get up on a screen by themselves. A PERSON had to put them there. If we feel free to be nasty to people online because they're just "words on a screen" then we are no better than if we were equally nasty to a person we met on the street or in a pub. Hiding behind the quasi-anonymity of the web is no excuse for bad manners. Why limit the topic of conversation to IN THIS THREAD? This thread isn't the only place we interact with people via the web. It's kind of like "But what have you done for me LATELY?" I see no reason why people can't talk about the harm that might come from dishonesty on the web, even OUTSIDE this thread. And the girl whose heart was broken by the fellow she was exchanging emails with was hurt by dishonesty. Yes she was hopelessly naive. But this doesn't change the fact that the fellow in question WAS dealing with a real person, not "words on the screen," and what he did was dishonest and immoral. Getting your jollies hurting naive or inexperienced people is still getting your jollies hurting people. Hurting people online is still hurting people. Again, there are no "words on the screen" in these sorts of forums that aren't put there by people. Real, honest-to-gosh, flesh-and-blood people. If you think that by using the web you're not interacting with real people, you're hopelessly naive yourself. If you don't like your kids interacting with strangers at all, don't let them use the PC at all. Now I'm not saying that you are necessarily hurting people. But if you are using your GUEST status to be "brutally honest," and it hurts people, then it is. There may be very little accountability that comes with registering, but there is still more than comes with GUEST status. I think this thread has just about devolved into the "did not"/"did so" stage. But we have covered a lot of interesting and profitable ground, in my estimation. Not that my estimation matters a rat's ass, but hey, if we didn't like seeing our own words on the screen, none of us would be here, would we?
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: CarolC Date: 22 Sep 00 - 11:21 AM Well, I hope I haven't caused anyone any discomfort with my use of the word "rape". I used it as a logical extension (or correction) of the Guest's analogy (I hope that is the correct term. I get them confused.) And in that context, it is appropriate. Whether or not it is too strong, I don't know. Maybe. It is possible for people to feel raped in an emotional or psychological sense. If you feel that something intimate of yours, such as your sympathy, or your compassion, have been taken by deception when you would not otherwise given it, you might experience some of the same emotions in a less intense form. I think the motivation is probably the same or very similar: to control other people and to take something private and intimate, such as their emotions or good will (or body), by deception or force. There's definately a lot to think about with that one. Carol |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: bbelle Date: 22 Sep 00 - 11:27 AM kat ... THANK YOU! Anyone who knows me, knows I would use a term like that knowing it was a distinction used by the KKK or any other hate group. For those who don't "know" me, please excuse my ignorance on using that term. I started using it because of the problems with my left hand and wrist and typing "mudpeople" was easier. It's back to "mudcatters" for me.
|
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: mousethief Date: 22 Sep 00 - 11:28 AM What about "mudders"? No wait that sounds too much like "mothers" said with a Brooklyn accent and a head cold.
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: bbelle Date: 22 Sep 00 - 11:50 AM Alex ... that's good and can do it mostly with my right hand. Thanks. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Ebbie Date: 22 Sep 00 - 12:17 PM P.L., et al: How about this analogy? You're in Max's house and your host has told you that this practice is frowned upon. dupliate post deleted by an elf/Joe-clone |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Lonesome EJ Date: 22 Sep 00 - 12:28 PM ...and I guess Mudder-Folkies would be even more inappropriate. I'm not sure that what Phantom is doing is so innappropriate.Mudcat is more than just a chain of personal communications to me.It is an on-going literary work,a philosophical treatise,a batch of comedy skits,a serious discussion,a chance to make believe.When I stated before that I am me and only me,except for Blake,Blondy,Bobby Leej,et al,I was only half in jest. This forum gives us the opportunity to be,at any given time,who and what we want to be.For most of us,that personna is very close to who we really are in the outside world...very close,but I know that LEJ deals differently with Mudcatters than he does with most other individuals in "real life".And,given the framework of a Tavern or Mudcat Fiction scenario,I enjoy exploring other people (aspects of my personality?),donning the "mask" for a while,if you will.But my attempt is never to deceive,and that is why my masks are donned and doffed in full view.Can I criticize someone who wears similar masks,with personnas created in secret so that the deception is complete? To me that is a game I have no interest in playing,but if another does,I suppose it is his (her) affair.It just seems that being at a masquerade party where you are the only one in costume would get old pretty quickly. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Melani Date: 22 Sep 00 - 12:42 PM Frankly, I'm not computer-literate enough to keep changing my name. And being basically shy, I find it a lot easier to discuss sensitive topics on-line than in person, so I have opened up here in ways that I virtually never do elsewhere. Lurker, I'm happy if you're having fun, just don't do anything nasty to anybody. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: katlaughing Date: 22 Sep 00 - 04:07 PM Jenny, you are welcome. I think we'd better get you one of those programs, though, that you can use to dictate your postings.*BG* You said: "Anyone who knows me, knows I would use a term like that knowing it was a distinction used by the KKK or any other hate group." (my italics) Knowing you, I am sure you meant "would NOT use." Just looking out for ya, darlin....luvyakat
|
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: bbelle Date: 22 Sep 00 - 05:04 PM Geezuz, kat, it's a damn good thing you're proofreading my posts today! What I need is a word-checker that will say, in the voice of the almighty ... "Jenny, are you sure you meant to say that?" moonjen whoiswriting"wouldnot"100timesonthechalkboard |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: sophocleese Date: 22 Sep 00 - 05:21 PM As a teenager and while in University I also liked playing Dungeons and Dragons and other similar games. Its neat to come up with a different person and then try and play that person out in a game. At one point I considered starting an entirely new and separate Mudcat identity. I was bulding up an image of him in my mind and adding details. It was fun; a pleasant exercise in imagination. However I soon realized that it would take a lot more time than I was willing to give to keep it up so I dropped the idea. So some days I post and I'm bitchy and other days I post and I'm cheerful, it simply means that one day I'm feeling bitchy and other days I'm feeling cheerful. Peter T., in one of his TFRTD, talked about being shy. I mentioned that shyness changes with circumstance or the mode of communication. So maybe people who are not shy can be the same in all places but for those who are shy being on the Net can bring out qualities they don't show in face to face or phone call situations. If you're used to behaving differently depending on company its not that big a stretch to come up with a variety of Net characters. An intent to deceive will worry people. Costumes and multiple identities are possible means to deceit, so people worry about them. Can't stop that. Spending more time reading the messages and less time trying to figure out who said what to who seems a sensible way of dealing with the worry. |
|
Subject: RE: Multiple Personality Disorder From: Lepus Rex Date: 22 Sep 00 - 05:52 PM What this 'guest' is doing may not be inappropriate, but it's annoying. I'm sure it pictures itself as some sort of mysterious masked rogue, sweeping into our lives, impressing us with it's wit, and just as quickly running off, leaving us to wonder, 'Who was that fascinating, but enigmatic, stranger?' 'Guest,' you're a dork. You came here because you know your annonymous 'existence' is hollow. So you came here and went on and on AND ON about why you are afraid to reveal yourself here, while you repeat that you don't care what 'we' think, and that knowing 'us' isn't important to you. Bullshit. You must be one lonely 'guest' if you need to start a thread like this, just to get SOME kind of attention. This must make your loser Millennium, all of us, talking to YOU, paying attention to YOU, recognising YOU as a real live PERSON! This is the membership you crave; you BELONG now, because we've SEEN you. And you still get to carry on with your secret agent act, too! Some life. And I liked Carol's rape analogy, though I can think of one that might be a little more appropriate: 'Guest phantom' is just some low-life flasher in the park. ---Lepus Rex |
| Share Thread: |