Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 01:35 PM

Still playing around with your lyrics, trying to sink "privateer" once and for all. How about replacing the last two lines of the first and second verses with something like:

In the horrible (50-gun?) ol' Leopard,
Our bold captain (Aubrey?) was a man to fear.
Oh, what joy to write a ballad by committee!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: GUEST,Not an Aubrey hornblower
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 01:55 PM

I just have to inject into this lovefest for Captain Jack Aubery and his creator Patrick O'Brian that I have tried to get through two different novels featuring this character and I was really disappointed. You folks just have to dust off the novels by C.S. Forrester featuring the entire naval cereer of Horatio Hornblower. As we say down south, O'Brian couldn't take a rag off Forrester's bush. I find O'Brian practically unreadable, while the things you can learn about leadership, initiative and human relations from Hornblower's exploits are terrific. The recent T.V. movies based very loosely on the books Mr. Midshipman Hornblower and Lt. Hornblower showing on the A&E cable network are poor interpretations of these works by one of the greatest writters of this century. You might want to read another Forrester classic, The African Queen. He was, and for my money still is, the best.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: MMario
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 01:59 PM

I'm not sure about that third line in the substitution.

*g,d&r*

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 02:11 PM

Well, the Hornblower series is my second favorite for this period of naval novel. What amazes me about O'Brian is that every time I re-read his books I come across even more intriguing things. At least in his earlier books I think he was having a thoroughly enjoyable time writing and researching. The combination of Aubrey and Maturin makes for a more interesting read, as they are very different characters and most of the time, best friends. I also agree that the A&E series doesn't do the Forrester books justice, although they look better than other movies of this period that I've seen.

Finally, spare yourself the pain of reading William Bentley's "Jan Needle." It deserves to spin three times round and sink to the bottom of some septic body of water.
Vast heaving!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 02:44 PM

Jed, how about making a virture of necessity, e.g. Were we pirates, or privateers, or His Majesties etc...? as a verse. This would allow you to bring in my favourite Dutch-derived version of all this -- freebooter.

RE: Forester (why no one here seems to be able to spell the names of naval writers is a sea-going mystery to me). O'Brian's writings are far superior psychologically -- Hornblower is one rank above cardboard in uniform. They are also far better written. IMHO. Though, as said, the earlier O'Brian books are much better than the later ones.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 03:05 PM

Actually I appreciate all the suggestions for lyric changes, and I am working on possible changes ... but yu see there is a lot more in the verse then simple the rhyming lines, I am actually telling the relevant bits I care to retell within the ryhmes, so I will probably make some dramatic changes to the first verses, if I change them.

... and to "GUEST/Not an Aubrey hornblower" I must say I understand the issues with O'Brian's style, for modern American tastes the language can be laborious - but I must say; once I dug in I found the use of language elegant! I think much of the value of O'Brian's stories is the beauty of the language, however wordy it may seem to our American cultured ears!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 05:50 PM

Hell's bells - Forester can't hold a candle to O'Brian when it comes to language. He writes a rattling good yard, but in terms of complexity, richness and overall satisfaction, his books are mere potboilers compared to the Aubrey-Maturin canon. A burger and fries compared to a gourmet meal, if you like.
And Jed, you're doing a disservice to your compatriots - O'Brian is probably more popular in the USA than in the UK. In fact, one of the reasons that he caught on over here was because you Americans had rightly spotted his genius when we had snootily dismissed him as "yet another swashbuckling historical hack". For which I thank you!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 09:55 AM

Gervase - perhaps I am not giving Americans the credit they deserve ... and perhaps I didn't actually mean it the way it sounded. Let me try again; I think Americans are generally exposed to such rich use of the language.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 12:11 PM

I got a CD from Jerry Bryant at the Mustic Sea Music Festival this weekend - it is a compilation of songs mentioned in the novels plus a few others from the period. It is intended as a companion to the novels.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 03:24 PM

Mmario

Any chance of the track listing? I occasionally reread some of the series - must keep an eye out for references.

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 03:55 PM

This one?

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 04:09 PM

That's it!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 06:55 PM

As a reader of the series [more than once] I wondered on occasion what "Catharpins" were. According to "Steel's Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging," 1794 edition, page 117, they are "Short ropes, to keep the lower shrouds in tight, after they are braced in by swifters, and to afford room to brace the yards sharp." Swifters (p. 131) are "The after shrouds on each side of the main and fore masts; they are above all the other shrouds, and are used as an additional security to the masts..."

By the way, try the Nathaniel Drinkwater series. Much better IM[NS]HO and there is no effort to stretch the series for a few extra bucks.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:01 AM

Just wanted to say I love your ballad! My car is called Sophie, because it's such a boat, inspired by "Master and Commander". My favorite of Patrick O'Brian's is the third, "HMS Surprise". If you don't know the sloth, you should. You'd have material for a whole new ballad. You might read Sarah Zettel's story "Miss Underwood and the Mermaid", which was inspired by O'Brian's stories.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: ooh-aah
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 02:45 AM

Fabulous to read that other folkies love Patrick O'Brian as much as I do - I've nearly got the whole set, and re-reading them is very rewarding. I think that the moment after the 'Waakhamzied' is sunk is one of the most powerful in the entire series.
I must say that Hornblower doesn't come within a country mile of Aubrey. I remember my idignation when I first heard of Patrick O'Brian ( or Patrick Russ, as his real name was)and how he was 'better' than Hornblower - rubbish I snorted. Within half a hour of picking up 'Master and Commander' I was not only convinced, but aware that my life was about to be significantly enrichmed!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 07:57 AM

My 2 cents goes to O'Brian as well I find him much more in tune with the reality of the Navy than Hornblower. Drinkwater is also pretty good even to him being run down by a steam paddleship when the war was over.

A warning, there is shortly an O'Brian film going to be released. Although called "Master and Commander" it is actually based on "Desolation Island" The part of tall, bluff, blonde, west-countryman Aubrey is to be taken by.....

Short dark antipodean Russel Crowe????????

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 08:06 AM

Thanks for the listing - a few familiar items there, alright! I'm trying to recall if there were any specificlly Irish song references?

Being Irish, a scientist, a birdwatcher, deeply interested in music and a sailor - I was a sucker for the series from the start! Yes, things get strained every so often over 20 novels, but the essential sympathy and life remain.

I've slowly started to build up a collection of hardback copies, so if anyone....

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 08:58 AM

And then there's the cookbook...anybody really want to know how to cook a spotted dog?

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: The O'Meara
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 11:05 AM

Russel Crowe? No no no. Aubrey is well over 6 feet, red faced, blond and constantly overweight. I reckon if Crowe plays Aubrey, they might as well get have Maturin, who closely resembles Barry Fitzgerald, played by Sting. Damn Hollywood anyway!
   BTW, did anyone notice in Jed Marum's song the title is Desolation Island but there's no mention of it anywhere in the lyrics so it doesn't make much sense unless you're an O'Brian fan. What happened to his song anyway?

O'Meara

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 11:13 AM

He recorded it, it is available on CD - and it is fantastic!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O Briens Desolation Island
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 12:08 AM

Russell Crowe insisted on the role. Apparently he's an O'Brian fan. I wasn't a Russell Crowe fan, until I found out.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: Peterr
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 07:24 AM

I'll reserve judgment on Russel Crowe until I see what he has done to Aubrey, but Jack's physical appearance is mentioned that often in the books it will be hard to shift my perception. Still, I did get used to Sean Bean as Sharpe.....
Thanks, EBarnacle, for the catharpins. I've been thinking of looking up some of the terms for fun, and perhaps I will now get round to it.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 09:22 AM

My freind Aengus Finnan, who also sings the song, says I should have named it Leopard's Run. I think he's right!

Desolation Island stuck because I recorded the demo shortly after I wrote the song, and had yet to name it. I wrote Desolation Island on the CD, so I;d remember what song it was - and then never gave it another thought. When the record came out several months later, I ad forgotten that I never really named the song.

BUT - I liked the idea of giving a hint to those who know nothing of O'Brien - only in the title. If someone was curious enough to "look it up" they'd quickly find the novel.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 09:28 AM

... and who aked what happened to the song? The whole album was released in Nov of 2003. Desolation Island is the first track. The albums' done OK on the radio - and the song plays pretty regularly. You could call your favorite folk/celtic radio show and request it - they probably have it, and may have already played. it. If they don;t have it, let me know (but most folk/celtic radio stations have the album, in US and Canada, many in Ireland and UK have it as well).

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 09:31 AM

And one more thing; Mudcatters Rick Fielding and Big Mick are on the recording of this song. Rick plays mando and guitar and Mick sings the chorus with me.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: The O'Meara
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 02:18 PM

OK, I'll reserve judgement on R. Crowe - he is a pretty good actor after all.
Where can I get a copy of the cd?

O'Meara

(It's not Nov. 2003 yet, so I presume it's supposed to be Nov 2002.)

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:03 PM

I just got the Jerry Bryant CD mentioned above from Amazon.com...cost $14.99 and took about 5 days to get here. Well worth it, for itself and as a musical memory of Patrick O'Brian's books.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: Gareth
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:27 PM

An Historical Interlude.

Are 'Catters aware that it was in this month that HMS Lepoard fired into the USS Cheasapeake to bring her to, to search for deserters ??

Which was the central theme of "Desolation Island"

Gareth

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: toadfrog
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 08:59 PM

That other thread may be correct about Bligh, who knows? But it seems to assume that because he was a remarkably able sailor (which no one denies) he could not possibly have been an S.O.B. as well. Doesn't follow. Exceptionally able people are often S.O.B.'s. It shouldn't even be necessary to cite examples.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: ooh-aah
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 07:12 PM

Two of the wonderful things about the Aubrey/Maturin books is the way the pleasures of good food and music run through them all - I can't wait to get stuck into a soused pig's face and a boiled baby one day! There are plenty of references to folk music as well - perhaps the best book for this is 'The Surgeon's Mate', in which the charming young Lithuanian, Jagiello, makes his first appearance and shows a deep interest in English popular songs, and they all sing 'The Lady and Death', Chevy Chase' and 'All in the Downs' in the snug of the Grapes (p.183). Does anyone know from which bawdy song Jack takes the lines
         
          You ladies of lubricity, that dwell in the bordello
          Ha ha ha, hee hee hee
          For I am that kind of fellow?

He sung this in 'Post Captain' I believe, thus causing himself great embarassment when his future wife and her family walked in!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 11:48 PM

Well, the Russell Crow flick is out this week. I guess they won't be using my song for the sound track. They probably could have talked me into it!

I never posted the link, but you can hear a quick loading sound file of the song here ... I never did post the final lyric - but when I recorded it, we resolved the issue by saying "some say a privateer."

Maybe a slight of hand way out of the problem - but it works. Apologies to O'Brian, RIP.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 08:43 AM

Cold blows the wind!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 03:53 PM

Waste not a moment!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: Dani
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 04:06 PM

I am a brand new, and obnoxious, fan. Pushing them on any literate soul I come across. The language is a delight, as are the honest portraits of flawed, imperfect human beings.

Found the last by accident, then began over with Master and Commander. Can't wait for the movie. If it's great, it'll make the rest of the books that much more enjoyable. If it's terrible, it'll make the books that much more enjoyable!

Dani

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Briens Desolation Island
From: Nancy King
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 07:48 PM

O'Brian fans who would like some help with some of the Naval terms and lore (including "privateer") might be interested in a book titled "A Sea of Words: a Lexicon and Companion for Patrick O'Brian's Seafaring Tales," by Dean King with John B. Hattendorf and J. Worth Estes.   The 2nd edition was published in 1997, so it doesn't cover the last couple of books, but really is a great reference. I just happen to have a library copy here -- but I think I'm gonna have to buy my own.

Dean King has also written a reference titled, "Harbours and High Seas: An Atlas and Geographical Guide to the Aubrey-Maturin Novels of Patrick O'Brian," which gives helpful maps showing the voyages chronicled in the novels. Look for it at the library.

As for the movie, I'm looking forward to it, if only to see how they've dealt with the story and characters. The trailers certainly seem to feature a lot of action, if nothing else. I know a couple of purists who refuse to see it because it doesn't follow the stories exactly. Their loss, methinks.

Cheers, Nancy

P.S. Love the song and the CD, Jed!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 10:09 PM

Thanks Nancy!

I love the books too. I've read several now and will probably continue over the years. I received an "audio book" too, for Christmas (for my long driving trips). Tim Piggot Smith (I hope I got that right) was the reader, and he did a marevelous job.

I'll be attending the film as soon as I get back to two next week!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Nancy King
Date: 12 Nov 03 - 10:50 PM

You're welcome, Jed!

I've listened to the whole series on tape, and, IMHO, the narrations by Patrick Tull are absolutely the BEST! He really brings all the characters to life. For reasons beyond all understanding, our library bought someone else's narration of one of the books, and after one tape I just couldn't listen -- I rented the Patrick Tull version from Recorded Books instead. Much better.

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 04:14 AM

I had a look at the movie website. I infer that the pictures are going to be very, very good, and dare say the acting will be too; I' don't know about the story! The first film is based on the tenth book, but the period has been changed from the War of 1812 to 1806, and the Bad Guy is a French ship, not an American one. There's a suggestion that the US public might be touchy about the Stars and Stripes going down after 9/11 ... It's the old thing about the Brits being the nasties in Amerrican movies, isn't it? If the Brits adre the Good Guys, then the other side has to be someone really evil, like the French. Hope it doesn't affect the Canadian box office!

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 08:23 AM

far be it from me to come Hollywood's defense, but if they did almalgamate the stories to create a film that portrays the characters and the actions of the sereis - then they could have had their choice of ships to sink!

which was the 10th book?

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Urbane Guerrilla
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:04 AM

Fear not. They blonded Russell Crowe for the role, and seem to be photographing him "as a much taller man."

I see somebody else remembers that cookbook. What did they call that prodigy again? Stumbled across it in a used-book store, didn't get it -- no money -- I remember a lot of puddings that all seemed to take about three hours' boiling. Definitely the d@mnedest thing I'd seen that week.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:37 AM

The 10th book is The Far Side of the World. Here's that website, with Our Russel in Alan Ladd mode (i.e. standing on a box!), and the lad, chatting. How's this for faultless philosophy:
Crowe said he was not overly concerned about maintaining fidelity to O'Brian's canon. If something works better on the screen, then so be it. "The way I figure it, Patrick O'Brian is dead," Crowe said. "And anyway, we're making a movie here."

Steve
PS That's "canon" with one "n"!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:47 AM

So Jack Aubrey is a Master and Commander in charge of a frigate, eh? And it's 1806 and he's wearing two epaulletes. Thank you Hollywood!

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 10:38 AM

LOL!!

I hope to see a comment or two on this thread from someone who's seen the flick this weekend. I have a few dates out of town and won;t get to the movie for a week or so ... so I'll be looking for your thoughts before I see the film.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 12:56 PM

Well I guess we will debate unendingly the right and wrong way to bring a book to the films and whether or not an actor is suited to the role. I have often stated my ability to suspend disbelief and be entertained. Once immersed in the period and the story I am lost until the last credit rolls.
   And if the film isn't quite exactly the story that was written I don't care. Treasure of Sierra Madre was really Houston's first attempt at The Man Who Would Be King. Clearly not as Kipling wrote it but no one denies it is one of the great American films.
   
And this debate goes on constantly with us kids who read, read and love comic books and see our favorited bit of panelology put on the screen and be clearly not what we read and remember. I expect I'll go to the theatre and watch this film for what it is. A film.

   I imagine I won't care if Russell Crowe isn't as big as Lucky Jack is in the books, (Robbie Coltrane isn't as big as Haggrid is in the books either. :-)), but I hope to be greatly entertained. Mainly because I'm able to see Lucky Jack Aubrey and Russell Crowe on the screen.

I can't wait to see this film and maybe it is good that I have never read the books. I only learned of them from Jeds's song on his fine CD last spring. Well before I heard of the movie.

   I'll read the books now that I am aware of them. And I can't wait for that either.

I'll of course add my two cents after I see this movie tomorrow. Can't wait for the lights to dim and the trailers to start.

Don

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 02:07 PM

Yes I know it's only a film but it seems that it's as easy to get things right as it is to get them wrong. I have no problems with Mr Crowe's height or other things mentioned, but it does ruin my enjoyment when things in a historical context are wrong. And the assumption that no one will notice, know or care really bugs me. I usually miss the next couple of line because of my spluttering.

Especially when Patrick O'Brien took such pains to get things right.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 02:44 PM

You know Les agree that it is as easy to get the history right as not. And Hollywood throws a lot of stuff at us with some considerable hubris. John Wayne as an 1840's Texas Ranger using pistols and rifles that are about 30 years too early for the period is a particular problem with me. Because he was playing a cowboy and cowboys had Colts Peacemakers and Winchester Leaveraction Carbines.

I guess can understand the head shaking at uniform parts being off because of that. I remember in Captain Horatio Hormblower as filmed with Gregory Peck all the cannons were fired by lanyards and flint igniters. All I remeber from the books were sparks and linstocks.
To me that was aninteresting departure but not enough to wreack the film for me or cast a pawl over the experience.

I just hope the ships carpenter doesn't have a tool belt and a Maikita 14 Volt power drill.

Don

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 06:31 PM

Flintlock igniters for cannon were contemporary with the Napoleonic era.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Nov 03 - 06:46 PM

Les f Hul9 - Touche !

But please do not confuse Hollywood with acuracy in the Historical matters - In particular British History !

I will reserve my judgement till I have seen the film.

Now Crowe could well play Drake, or "EL Draco", in a film of "1588 and all that" !

Or would that be UN - PC !

Gareth - Whose guiding light at Sea or at Land is "What would Hornblower have done !"

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: JedMarum
Date: 14 May 09 - 12:42 PM

Ok - I did a slide show video of the song, Desolation Island and posted it at Youtube.

Subject: RE: Help: Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 May 09 - 12:54 PM

Wow.