MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: Dani
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 06:12 AM

Steve, that's great! I think you've hit it.

Thread titles and well-founded cynicism aside, though, Mrrzy's got a darn good point, and thinking this over a lot the past few days brought me to considering this:

What REALLY has me stumped is how to sort out EASTER! A much more Christian holiday, really at the heart of Christianity. But start pulling the threads out of THIS fabric. They didn't bother hardly changing the NAME for this one, for cryin' out loud. I've been able to work out the Christmas stuff, because honoring someone's birth works out for me, but the RESURRECTION?

Have greater, cooler,wiser minds than my own worked on this one?

Dani

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 07:22 AM

Good Post, Katy. I think this thread can go on into part eleven, because it's basically an irresolveable problem. Gets down to the individual in the long run. I have a cousin who is an atheist who gathers his whole family together to celebrate Christmas at his house. He has summer cookouts and family picnics there, too. He treats them all the same. He just celebrates the non-spiritual aspect of Christmas. I have another family member who feels that he'd be a hypocrite joing in holding hands when we're saying grace, so he doesn't. And everyone respects him for his honesty. I guess that I see very little about celebrating "Christmas" in this country that has anything to do with Christ's birth. Maybe you're rebelling against the commercialism, Mrrzy, because I sure don't see much spiritualism to rebel against. Thanks for starting this thread is such a generous, non-offensive way.
Jerry

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 09:07 AM

My family doesn't DO Easter, I guess, so it hasn't bothered me as much, but yeah!

You're all right, bad thread name. What I'm trying to do is find a way to celebrate the secular aspects (love of family, presents, evergreens) at ChristmasTIME without the Christian aspects, which ought to be avoidable since they are, or appear to be, rather independent of the religious stuff. that is, families exist, presents exist or can exist, and evergreens exist, as do seasons. I'm glad though that people are enjoying this one without anybody getting on their high horse...

But to clarify again, I'm not, actually, against the commercialism. I'm against the religious tones OF the commercialism. If it were frankly commercial, that would be fine - NON-Christian Christmas carols, NON-Christian Christmas commercials, yada yada yada, would be LESS offensive to me. I don't object to marketing being in my face, I work in marketing. What I can't stand is the underlying message of the thing being marketed being Good In God's Eyes or something. I mind the USE of religious music in stores to sell stuff - but if the music were secular, it wouldn't get to me as badly. If we could go all the way to commercial and LEAVE the religion, that would be OK with me.

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: GUEST,Katy
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 10:18 AM

Isn't that whole idea of marketing? Using that which is meaningful to people to get them to buy? The Christian music, message, etc, IS meaningful to people because it is a Christian celebration. Manipulative to USE this? Yes! Does it work? YES! Is the use/abuse of the basis of the Christian religion offensive to lots of folks, Christian and non-Christian alike? You bet it is!

It's important to remember that the musak isn't selling the religion, it is using/abusing it. There is a big difference.

The musak actually serves another, probably unintended, purpose. It reminds folks of the real reason for the celebration. It gives people pause (if they have the time to pause with all that has been done to the holiday) to consider that which is meaningful about the season. For the Christians, of course it is the remembrance of the birth of Christ. And there is much good in that.

For the non-Christians, it is the feeling of love and family and sharing of gifts that has the greater meaning. There is much good in that.

Our common ground is the true goodness that is born of this holiday, whether motivated by the embracing of Christian belief or not. Let us meet there.

And then, let us learn more about the deeply meaningful celebrations of other religions. Let us find the good there and celebrate it! That is not to say anyone needs to buy into another's religious philosophies, but let's seek out the good and celebrate WITH one another! There is much to celebrate! Let's find our common ground. Katy

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 01:45 PM

Well, I actually mostly agree with Guest Katy (join if you aren't just temporarily a Guest, please!) - except for I'd really rather learn about the deeply meaningful celebrations of other PEOPLE, and ignore the religion as irrelevent to all the good things you're talking about. The "season" of midwinter celebration predates Christ by millennia, and the "real reason" of the season should not be limited to the Christian reason, even if that is the real reason for celebrating CHRISTMAS AS A CHRISTIAN holiday. It's REAL pain that there isn't another word for the same celebration of all that good stuff, love amongst fellow peoples, peace on Earth and kinddess (oops, almost typoed kinkiness - go figure!) abounding, happening at the end of the year, and NOT RELIGIOUS. Like Christmas/Lovemas, or does the -mas ending HAVE to mean religion/mass? Can it mean Ritual, in which case we're OK as anyone can have rituals?

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 11:21 AM

I discovered This interesting link while checking out something else.

I make no comment on the etymological accuracy of the claims therein.

Murray

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 11:48 AM

... where the homepage proclaims, A National Committee to Counter the Bigots Who Want To Sow Discord Among Peoples -- Since 1984!

Seems to me it sows a bit of discord, itself, whatever the accuracy of their view on the facts.

~Susan

Subject: RE: MORE ON de-Xing Xmas - continued
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:40 PM

I like that site! Didn't seem to be SOWING any discord...