Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:53 AM

McGuinness hasn't testified yet, as far as I know. Only selected parts of a written statement have been leaked to the press.

Second in command to how many? From a summary of the relevant part of his statement: " Mr Martin McGuinness has informed the inquiry the Provisional IRA had less than 50 volunteers and an armoury of only 20 or 25 weapons, some obsolete, in Derry at the time of Bloody Sunday"

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: Ditchdweller
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:22 PM

I served in the Royal Engineers from 1968 to 1980. During this time I only did a single tour of Ulster, in '79. The folowing story I heard from two sources, one military, the other civilian. The civilian was an old farmer in Keady. I was there as part of a detail cutting down an Ash tree to make way for a helicopter landing pad. This was shortly after Dessie O'Hare was shot up trying to ambush an Army patrol, something the farmer congratulated me on! He then went on to relate the story that I had already heard. The story is that the IRA decided to hijack a peaceful, though banned, Civil Rights march to gain a propaganda coup over the Army. They did this by towards, but not at, Army personel in an attempt to goad them into firing on unarmed civilians. Though this story is backed up by several recent revelations, I do not claim it as true as I have no proof. But it is a possibility that does need investigating.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM

"an attempt to goad them into firing on unarmed civilians."

Could that really work with anyone fit to carry a gun and wear the uniform of a professional soldier?

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: The Pooka
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 02:17 PM

Wolfgang, THANKyou very much for the info re McGuinness. Sapper 82, very interesting; agree it bears investigating.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:11 AM

"an attempt to goad them into firing on unarmed civilians."

Could that really work with anyone fit to carry a gun and wear the uniform of a professional soldier?

Oh yes!! Alarmingly easy - If you doubt that for a second just put yourself in the position of someone just out of training being thrown into that sort of situation. You are probably 18-19 years old, you are in a group, probably company strength (approx 100)facing a crowd of about 5000. Your intelligence briefing has told you that there may be para-militaries mixed in with that crowd and they may be armed.

With respect to Bloody Sunday, the CR movement specifically asked both the PIRA and IRA to stay away - they didn't - Why??? Perhaps Mr. McGuinness can explain.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: Red Eye
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 01:35 AM

Appreciate your comments Pooka. My intention was to open debate between Mudcatters in relation to the inquiry. The cost is going to be astronomical. Estimates have been put at £200 m All this just to be able to say to the British Goverment "told you so". Something that was known by the families anyway. This blood letting will never bring back the dead from either side of this conflict. I bring your attention to the cost because of the ongoing campaign in Omagh. They are trying to raise £2 million pounds to be able to pursue the killers of their loved ones through the civil courts. You probably know where I would rather see this wasted money spent.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: Ringer
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:27 AM

On Jan 19th this year, the (London) Daily Mail published an article under the headline "We DID fire on Bloody Sunday troops, admits IRA gunman". From it I quote ...testimony to be heard by the Saville enquiry will say that an IRA gunman fired more than 30 rounds in a 'joint operation' to target British troops in Londonderry in 1972.

The disclosure effectively destroys repeated claims by [Martin] McGuinness that the IRA did not 'engage' British troops on Bloody Sunday.

Whether that testimony has yet been heard, or, indeed, anything else on the subject, I don't know.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: tremodt
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 08:40 PM

I have heard that the only protectors of the catholics of Norn Iron was the IRA, not the RUC or the british soldiers

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:10 AM

Thank you Redeye. I may not agree with all of your views but So what? We all need to hear and learn. Omagh, yes. My wife & son and eye flew out of JFK on vacation *that* bloody day, and we learned upon landing at Dublin, from our cabdriver, of the massacre committed while we were en route. We'll never forget the pall cast over all of the country. I remember placing, as thousands did, flowers & message in front of the GPO. How & where may one contribute to the Omagh justice fund?

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:26 AM

Dunno why *I* typed "eye" instead of "I" above. Too much of my crappy dialect-imitations in other threads maybe. Certainly don't believe in an Eye for an Eye. (Nor for an "I".)

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:10 AM

Here's the information you asked for Pooka:

Omagh Victims Legal Trust, 56 Wendover Court, Chiltern Street, London W1U 7NU

or to

Bank of Ireland, Omagh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland.

Oh!!!.... and RO1SIN

If any group told me they were "protecting" me by planting bombs indiscriminately in shopping centres and crowded streets - I'd tell them in no uncertain terms to go and "protect" somebody else.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 06:31 PM

Thanks very much Teribus.

Subject: RE: Bloody Sunday - Bloody Disgrace?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM

Speculations in the Daily Mail are worth the paper they are written on. And that isn't much good even for that.